New Chip - New Age in system design

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
Apple have been known for innovation, so why would they choose to change to an archetecture to one that has many key flaws.



The flaws are mainly based on how current systems are still using legacy systems.



Although we already know that the systems will use custom motherboards with the chip allowing use of the OS on but it may be in Apples best interest to design the motherboard from the ground up, using new technology as the basis, while it would still need to be based on the X86 platform to support the chip their is no other limit on how the board is designed. Although Apple may want to support all modern PC graphics cards (maybe not using AGP but PCI-Expess). The bios could be replaced by a chip running a mini-OS designed for config of the system.



Current systems use ATX, but this is old technology. this form factor has been evolved as far as it can go. The new form faactor could be more powerful and more optimised.



Also Apple need to look at working with Intel to increase Front Side bus speeds, currenntly Apple's systems have faster FSB but with both a new archetecture and new form factor this may be possible.



Apple could also parner with a company like RAMBUS to support the latest memory technology. The new XDR chips are 5 times the speed of DDR which could help ensure Macs once again become the standard in systems used by graphics designers.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 25
    nowayout11nowayout11 Posts: 325member
    Intel did launch the BTX form factor, but thus far that has gotten over like a fart in church.



    There are several custom/proprietary chipsets out there in the PC world, some of which are also based on legacy-free (or near legacy-free) design. It wouldn't be difficult for Apple to make whatever custom solutions they wanted, just like they have been all along.
  • Reply 2 of 25
    1337_5l4xx0r1337_5l4xx0r Posts: 1,558member
    What are some of the flaws you see in current x86 machines?



    Why would Apple adopt expensive, proprietary technology like Rambus, which, IIRC, is a feeble 16bits wide (and thus needs to clock higher to achieve parity with DDR)?
  • Reply 3 of 25
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,268member
    If you look at past history Apple's unique offerings in motherboard design are quickly surpassed by commodity PC hardware. I'm sure they began to see the writing on the wall...let Intel handle the design needs and focus on the OS and applications where they can affect the most change.



    Look at Intel's chipsets and premium motherboards. They come well appointed and offer more features than Powermacs. Dual GIGe ports, eSATA, PCI-E and PCI. SATA II.



    I'd rather Apple just give me what PCs have and focus on getting OS X and its apps running like a champ.
  • Reply 4 of 25
    Well Apple needs to distinguish its hardware from the pack, if its hardware is lightyears ahead of the competitions customers will have 2 reasons to choose Apple. The second reason being the OS. Also unique hardware could stop viruses that attack current windows hardware (twice ive had virusses wipe the boot sector of my hard drive.



    Jonathan
  • Reply 5 of 25
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,268member
    Hardware is something you just can't bank on. Being ahead of the competition means spending a lot more money.



    Microsoft has always been correct in stating "it's the software stupid"



    I'm pretty happy with the roadmaps for



    PCI Express

    SATA

    Wifi

    Microprocessors



    Not much else I really need other than kickass software to take advantage of what I have already in hardware.
  • Reply 6 of 25
    i prefer to have the best hardware and the best software
  • Reply 7 of 25
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,268member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by cdoverlaw

    i prefer to have the best hardware and the best software



    Well you certainly aren't getting the best hardware with Macs. Moving to Intel gives us a better chance to stay current.
  • Reply 8 of 25
    the cool gutthe cool gut Posts: 1,714member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by cdoverlaw

    Apple have been known for innovation, so why would they choose to change to an archetecture to one that has many key flaws.



    I was thinking the same thing. OSX on Intel does not have to support ANY previous systems. There has to be a great opportunity there somewhere.
  • Reply 9 of 25
    i dunno why but with my ibook i feel its better hardware than my home pc even though its not ment to be, with only a cpu of half the frequency you would expect it to not work as well but my ibook is amazing, only thing it stuggles with is some games, but thats the programmers fault
  • Reply 10 of 25
    aquamacaquamac Posts: 585member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by hmurchison

    Well you certainly aren't getting the best hardware with Macs. Moving to Intel gives us a better chance to stay current.



    Ever try looking inside a PC? Mac hardware is much more professional.
  • Reply 11 of 25
    wmfwmf Posts: 1,164member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by cdoverlaw

    The bios could be replaced by a chip running a mini-OS designed for config of the system.



    Service processors are expensive, so I don't see this happening.



    Quote:

    Current systems use ATX, but this is old technology. this form factor has been evolved as far as it can go. The new form faactor could be more powerful and more optimised.



    Like the current G5 case?



    Quote:

    Also Apple need to look at working with Intel to increase Front Side bus speeds, currenntly Apple's systems have faster FSB but with both a new archetecture and new form factor this may be possible.



    Frequency isn't everything. Look at the throughput. Also look up CSI.



    Quote:

    Apple could also parner with a company like RAMBUS to support the latest memory technology. The new XDR chips are 5 times the speed of DDR which could help ensure Macs once again become the standard in systems used by graphics designers.



    When you sup with the devil, use a long spoon. Also, memory bandwidth won't help you if you can't get it into the processor.
  • Reply 12 of 25
    snoopysnoopy Posts: 1,901member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by AquaMac

    Ever try looking inside a PC? Mac hardware is much more professional.





    I see two separate views of hardware being discussed, on one hand the technology and performance of components, and on the other the way it is designed and built as a package. Apple will take Intel's superior technology and package it into a product we can feel good about.
  • Reply 13 of 25
    nofeernofeer Posts: 2,422member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by cdoverlaw

    i dunno why but with my ibook i feel its better hardware than my home pc even though its not ment to be, with only a cpu of half the frequency you would expect it to not work as well but my ibook is amazing, only thing it stuggles with is some games, but thats the programmers fault



    my wife says her .9 ibook g4 is sluggish compared to my dell 1.13 especially for ebay and picture intensive sites like expedia. safari and firefox seems snappier with my dell. i wish i could perk up her ibook
  • Reply 14 of 25
    one thing from the pc world i'm very intrigued by and curious to maybe see is dual GPU's. i don't know how efficient or how effective it is, but a lot of the top-of-the-line Alienware computers use this. i doubt they'd ever put in a mac, but that'd be pretty impressive if apple could make it work and even take it to the next level (who knows what that might be). just a thought...
  • Reply 15 of 25
    heinzelheinzel Posts: 106member
    Why, oh why does Apple have to have the fastest and bestest always? I understand that in the old days, Apple *had* to do their own hardware design because the stuff that was available didn't do what they wanted it to do. Now however, the commodity market, i.e. x86 support chippery gives them all they would want and more, to produce the machine they want to make. And all that without having to pay huge amounts for R&D of low volume and thus expensive chips. Heck, with the Intel chipsets they essentially get the HiDef audio for free, as well as an embedded graphics solution that is more than fine for most tasks, including light gaming.

    Since their only chance in differentiating themselves from the rest of the market in a way that people actually want to buy a Mac instead of a PC, now they will have to play the niche market card, i.e. they are able to do stuff that the everyday PC maker wouldn't dare doing, just because they already *are* different anyways and can emphasize that by making things that are different. These don't need to be big technical things but rather more usability - the double-fingered scroll pad comes to mind. I hope that the transition will give them more opportunities to improve on the PC experience in general and not so much on minor technical details to impress hardware geeks.

    Oh, one more thing - the virtualization in Merom should enable to run two OS simultaneously - no double boot necessary to run Windows on it's own processor partition, if that's something you want. I would, so I finally could run my Windows legacy stuff on my Mac and I wouldn't need to have a PC to do that anymore... .
  • Reply 16 of 25
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,268member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by AquaMac

    Ever try looking inside a PC? Mac hardware is much more professional.



    don't confuse good looks with Professional.



    The Powermacs were passed in tech month ago. We're still waiting for



    PCI-Express

    Dual Gigabit

    Digital I/O

    eSATA support



    All this stuff and more is available in a $200 Asus motherboard. I don't doubt Apple's ability to design superior stuff but their refresh cycle is so laggardly it's years before we see a significant change.
  • Reply 17 of 25
    cubistcubist Posts: 954member
    What we mean by 'professional' regarding the inside of the Mac is things like (a) good cabling, so that cables don't block airflow or hang around messily, (b) easy-to-open cases with easy access to all components, (c) easy to replace components.



    There's no need for Apple to use unique chips, memory or drives. Doing so would have no performance benefit, and would make components expensive. Ask someone with an older Dell with Rambus memory what he thinks of Rambus. (Then stand back so his yelling doesn't hurt your ears.)
  • Reply 18 of 25
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,268member
    Quote:

    What we mean by 'professional' regarding the inside of the Mac is things like (a) good cabling, so that cables don't block airflow or hang around messily, (b) easy-to-open cases with easy access to all components, (c) easy to replace components.





    Function of the case(easy open) and cabling (SATA and care in routing). Come on folks...let's not turn a blind eye to the truth. We've waited long enough for nextgen Mac hardware. Today's stuff is old in the tooth. It "is" Pro but aging.



    Looking forward to Powermacs circa 2007. We'll be right there with any PC on the Planet hardwarewise.
  • Reply 19 of 25
    skatmanskatman Posts: 609member
    Quote:

    Current systems use ATX, but this is old technology. this form factor has been evolved as far as it can go. The new form faactor could be more powerful and more optimised.



    Optimized for what? ATX is a very flexible standard what allows anything from a Mac mini sized machine to a multi-processor workstation or server.

    It works, it's reliable.



    Quote:

    Also Apple need to look at working with Intel to increase Front Side bus speeds, currenntly Apple's systems have faster FSB but with both a new archetecture and new form factor this may be possible.



    Why? Do you have any data suggesting that current FSB speeds are not enough for current processors?



    Quote:

    Apple could also parner with a company like RAMBUS to support the latest memory technology. The new XDR chips are 5 times the speed of DDR which could help ensure Macs once again become the standard in systems used by graphics designers.



    Hmm... and end up in a dead end like Intel did a few years ago? Rambus is all talk and no show. Intel is still paying for their mistake.



    Quote:

    What we mean by 'professional' regarding the inside of the Mac is things like (a) good cabling, so that cables don't block airflow or hang around messily, (b) easy-to-open cases with easy access to all components, (c) easy to replace components.



    You've obviously never looked inside a brand name PC before. Everything that you say is there.

    Not only that, but it's a lot easier to add components. How are you going to add a second internal CD/DVD drive to a G5? On PC it's easy.



    Quote:

    dunno why but with my ibook i feel its better hardware than my home pc even though its not ment to be,



    There maybe very good reasons for that. PC maybe a lot more trashed than the ibook.

    Regardless, what you "feel" is one thing. What the reality is, many times, something else.
  • Reply 20 of 25
    big macbig mac Posts: 480member
    It occurs to me that many of you should have switched to PCs long ago. Now that Apple is a PC maker, you don't have to feel guilty about it, but you guys could have had your Intel spec orgies from day one instead.
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