My story isn't about a laptop battery, but it is about Applecare. In the first week of August, 2002 we bought my future wife a TiBook 667 with which to start law school the following week.
She used the laptop in every class for three school years, dragging it around in a book bag containing multiple big heavy law textbooks. And then she would use it into the wee hours, and.....start again the next day. She wore down the keys on the keyboard.
Not only did I survive her law school, she did also, as did the TiBook, .....until two days after her last final exam. It then started to exhibit re-booting problems. I finally got it going, with the instruction "don't ever turn it off", which worked until early June 2005.
After a system update, it wouldn't re-boot, and we dragged it to an Apple retail store, where the geniuses there verified it couldn't be started. Off it went to TiBook hospital, wherever that is.
One week later, I checked online, and it was "waiting for parts". After 10 business days, I called Applecare to inquire, and they escalated the case to "searching" for the part (presumably the motherboard) at the Apple repair shops across the company. After three weeks, my next inquiry was graciously escalated to the customer satisfaction level. All the while I had been polite, as were they. The customer relations representative sounded rather new at the position, and eventually came back from "hold" to say that someone from the local Apple retail store would call to offer to exchange the computer.
"For what, another old computer?" "Yes, like for like, another old computer". "I'm not sure I like that". "Well, talk to the Apple retail store rep when he calls".
So I stewed for a few minutes, and called the local retail store myself, not wanting to wait. I provided the repair number, and a brief description of my understanding of the situation, finishing by saying we'd rather wait for the part than take another old computer.
He said "I understand what you mean, I don't think I'd like that either. But that's not the way it works." "Oh?" "We'll give you a new computer."
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So, one week later, after the dead TiBook 667 was returned to the Apple retail store, they called us over to give us a new 15" Al PBG4 1.5 GHz, with all her data, emails, desktop pictures, etc installed perfectly on the new laptop.
They gave us the new computer without complaint, cheerfully, and with only three weeks left on the three year Applecare warranty, and my wife (the lawyer) is very very happy.
By the way, we bought Applecare for the new computer ;-)
My wife's iBook exhibited the video connector problem during AppleCare - first trip, they couldn't reproduce the problem, which the Apple Store Geniuses had been able to just fine. One week shot. Second trip, they fixed the wrong thing, *and* wiped the hard drive after she paid to have it saved and restored. Another week shot. She called AppleCare and complained... and got an iPod for $50. Yeah, it was another $50 to Apple, but it was a loss to them. (BTW, she loves the iPod.)
Sometimes the repair house isn't so hot, but the AppleCare folks have always been good in our experience. Sounds like SDW got a bad apple though, no pun intended.
I just sent my iPod mini in to get its battery replaced. I tried to keep it in good condition, but after a year's use it could only hold a 3+ hour charge.
Anyhow, finally got it back but I don't think the battery has been replaced. The Apple Support site didn't indicate that a repair was performed and so far, on first use, it's already down about three notches on the battery indicator after only playing 4 songs. I guess I'll know after Monday when I use it on my way to the office.
Yep, well I'm sorry to say that batteries are not coverd under AppleCare as stated in the TOCs, and as far as I know batteries are not coverd in most warrantys.
"e. Limitations.The Plan does not cover:...
...(x) Consumable parts, such as batteries, unless damage has occurred due to a defect in materials and workmanship;"
Well, either you simply lucked out amazingly the first time (my guess - see if you can pull up your old AppleCare docs and see if the battery is covered - I don't believe it ever was), or they honored your old policy as written, and then changed it, and then you bought a new one without checking.
Serious question: how were they supposed to know to notify you about a chance in AppleCare policy? Track that you *had* bought one in the past, that you *were* buying one now, and then tell you at point of sale about any changes? Seems much easier and more reasonable for the customer to read the agreement before agreeing to it, just like an initial purchase. It's not like you bought one and then they changed *that* one.
Good luck getting it replaced, but to be honest, I'm not seeing where Apple did anything wrong on this. Batteries wear out, they're not covered by AppleCare (and to my recollection never have been), and Apple is doing precisely what you agreed to with them. \
1. Batteries should not wear out in 18 months. Some people will tell you that's normal, but I disagree. I used to deal with all sorts of rechargable batteries. Even NiCads lasted longer than that.
2. I didn't ask to be notified of the change. What I asked Apple was "when did the policy change" and no one could tell me.
3. I may have had a sympathetic person the first time, but it didn't seem that way. It just seemed like standard procedure.
On a more subjective note, I feel that a $240 extended warranty should cover everything except accidental or delibrate/negligent damage. Maybe it's my fault for not reading, but when one has a previous issue resolved easily with AppleCare, one assumes that it won't be a problem the next time.
What pisses me off more than anything is their attitude. "We're not interested in replacing it" and then the first guy being kind of snotty little shit. That is very un-Apple from my experience.
As I said earlier, I disagree that I should have to kiss their ass. I'm the customer. It doesn't work that way. The company in question should work to keep my business. That's the way I've run my life as a consumer, and it's always worked well, that is unless an arrogant company like Apple steps into the picture.
Yep, well I'm sorry to say that batteries are not coverd under AppleCare as stated in the TOCs, and as far as I know batteries are not coverd in most warrantys.
"e. Limitations.The Plan does not cover:...
...(x) Consumable parts, such as batteries, unless damage has occurred due to a defect in materials and workmanship;"
You can disagree all you want, but you bought the AppleCare.
And you really need to consider that no one at Apple could tell you when the policy changed *because it never did*. I found *my* original Pismo AppleCare documentation, and guess what - batteries aren't covered.
The Pismo had a battery recall at one point, I suspect you merely lucked out. Perhaps the battery was covered under the recall and you didn't know it, perhaps you got a service person who simply misunderstood, or was in a really good mood.
Doesn't really matter though, because the policy has never changed. You were asking the Apple folks an impossible question. If I may guess, I'd say they told you this, but you didn't want to believe it, and stuck to asking? From their perspective, you may have sounded more than a little stubborn and irrational.
And yes, batteries are consumables, and yes, 18 months is *NORMAL* for current technologies if they are used daily, particularly if you don't follow the charging guidelines in the manual that came with the laptop. Which no one ever does.
I'm changing the title of this thread to be more reflective of the question at hand.
I'm sorry you felt like you had a bad experience with the service reps, but from a factual standpoint I'm not quite sure what your complaint would be about.
I had a similar problem with my powerbook's battery. I would get only 20 minutes out of it per charge, it was a year and 4 months old.
Had to go through hell to get it replaced, even resorted to sending that e-mail to steve jobs before I got a response worth anything. The representative argued with me for about an hour about how batteries were "consumables," batteries only had a year warranty because of this, and blah blah blah. 4 phone calls later I finally get a new one. The only thing that saved me was that about 6 months ago I complained about the battery life within that year, at that time they told me it was "normal."
Consumable parts, such as batteries, unless damage has occurred due to a defect in materials and workmanship;
How did apple know that battery is not dying due to "defect in materials and workmanship"?
Then never even took the battery and tested it?
This sound to me like like a breach of warranty, which is a serious offense in the country of the free, the home of the brave.
Quote:
And yes, batteries are consumables, and yes, 18 months is *NORMAL* for current technologies if they are used daily, particularly if you don't follow the charging guidelines in the manual that came with the laptop.
Do you have any data to back that up? Where do you get this 18 months figure?
Quote:
One week later, I checked online, and it was "waiting for parts". After 10 business days... and eventually came back from "hold" to say that someone from the local Apple retail store would call to offer to exchange the computer.
And you're saying you're happy with this? I'd be PISSED if I was without my laptop for 3 weeks! Lock and load!
How did apple know that battery is not dying due to "defect in materials and workmanship"?
Then never even took the battery and tested it?
This sound to me like like a breach of warranty, which is a serious offense in the country of the free, the home of the brave.
18 months == out of warrantee.
Quote:
Do you have any data to back that up? Where do you get this 18 months figure?
Ask around. Ask people how long their batteries last, and how old they are. Ask them how often they buy a new one. 12-18 months is normal, and solidly in line with my own experiences. This has held from my PowerBook 180 on forward to my current PowerBook G4.
Quote:
And you're saying you're happy with this? I'd be PISSED if I was without my laptop for 3 weeks! Lock and load!
You *DID* read that he got an entirely new laptop, right?
This thread is quickly losing any content to noise ratio it may have had.
To summarize:
Batteries are considered consumables by every manufacturer out there, including Apple.
Consumables are not covered under AppleCare, therefore batteries are not covered under AppleCare.
This is explicitly stated in the AppleCare documentation.
If you purchase AppleCare, your battery is not covered.
This has how it was always been, to the best of anyone's recollection or documentation.
Any previous instances of replaced batteries were due to recalls, replacement of obviously bad batteries while under original warrantee, or simply lucking out and getting a service rep that screwed up and gave you one against company policy.
Every company has a rude service rep in the bunch. Every so often you'll run across one.
Ask around. Ask people how long their batteries last, and how old they are. Ask them how often they buy a new one.
Hmm... "asking around" is hardly a sure way of accurately determining "normal" battery life.
From my experience, battery life varies from anywhere between 12 and 36 months. But I don't know how to quantify "normal". How do you quantify *normal*?
Personally, I think that 18 months is low for a battery, but that is just me.
Quote:
You *DID* read that he got an entirely new laptop, right?
Yeah, I can read. Apple only did it because they had no choice! They can't fix the problem in 3 WEEKS. It was the least they could do.
Quote:
This thread is quickly losing any content to noise ratio it may have had.
You bet. The guy said over and over again, that he was mostly outraged at the rudeness of the customer support. And this very fact was lost in the first few replies.
This fact should have been at the top of your summary, not at the bottom.
You were asking the Apple folks an impossible question.
Shouldn't the service representative working on AppleCare issues know that AppleCare policy did not change then and notify the customer?
The customer (SDW2001) is saying that they never told him that it didn't change. A simple 'This has been our policy since mm/dd/yyyy sir, I'm sorry' would do the trick I think. But they never told him that. My guess is: under-qualified, ill-trained rude servicemen. That's Apple's fault.
As I promised Apple, I'm sharing my experience with all the Mac users I know:
I called the AppleCare line a few minutes ago to request a battery replacement on my 18 month old Powerbook G4, 15". I'm only getting about an hour to an hour and a half out of the battery, after typically getting up to three hours.
I was told that AppleCare didn't cover the battery.
Wrong. I got one replaced on Applecare. It was a little worse than yours (down to 10 minutes after a year!) but still they sent a new one pretty easily.
Either it was considered still under original warrantee (one year), or you simply lucked out.
Read the AppleCare agreement, batteries are not covered. It's right there in black and white. I can't see how this is even in question.
skatman: No, AppleCare is not a warrantee, as defined by law. It is an extended care contract, and is subject to simple contract law. The contract says batteries are not included. End of story.
As for giving him a brand new model, Apple certainly didn't have to do that. Replace kind with kind is all they have to do, but to upgrade him by a couple thousand dollars? That is not 'expected' behaviour in a company by anyone but those with serious entitlement issues.
Gene: Read SDW's original post. "I argued with them... I told him he was feeding me a line of bullshit..." My guess? They tried to tell him, he didn't like the answer because it went against what his prior (against policy) experience had been. He hasn't liked it here, I can only imagine he was more insistent on the phone. Of course, this is just conjecture.
This thread is really running out of content quickly.
skatman: No, AppleCare is not a warrantee, as defined by law.
Is this your free legal tip of day?
Quote:
The contract says batteries are not included. End of story.
Did you even read applecare terms and conditions document?
It says under the limitations of applecare:
The following are not covered:
" Consumable parts, such as batteries, unless damage has occurred due to a defect in materials and workmanship;"
Do you see the second part of the sentence?
"unless damage has occurred due to a defect in materials and workmanship". As far as I understand this means that if the battery broke as a result of defect in materials and workmanship, Applecare DOES cover battery. Does it not?
In this case, Apple did not investigate whether the battery problem occured as a defect or due to, what you call, "normal wear and tear".
Quote:
As for giving him a brand new model, Apple certainly didn't have to do that. Replace kind with kind is all they have to do, but to upgrade him by a couple thousand dollars?
If you care to look at part D of the applecare plan:
"Replacement Parts and Products. In the event Apple repairs or replaces your Covered Equipment, you understand and agree
that the replacement product and parts that Apple provides may be manufactured from new, refurbished, or serviceable used parts."
So a new laptop falls squarely within this agreement. Apple has not gone beyond the call of duty here.
Just tell me what company you work for. I'm make sure to avoid it!
Quote:
This thread is really running out of content quickly.
If someone calls up Firestone and says "I have 80,000 miles on my tires, and they wore out, I want new ones!" and Firestone has a policy of replacing tires with defects, should they have to send someone out to look at the tires before telling the customer "No, I'm sorry, that definitely falls under wear and tear, you've put the expected number of miles on them."? Of course not, that would be stupid. Ditto for a battery at 18 months. It falls within the expected lifespan, so inspecting it for defects would be similarly stupid, not to mention a waste of Apple's time and resources. The problem is that everyone can see and understand the wear of rubber over time, but for some reason some people can't fathom that the same sort of degradation can occur with batteries. Perhaps it's simply because it looks the same on the outside, I don't know. What I do know is that complaining that a consumable product isn't performing as it did immediately after purchase, after a timespan that is in line with the normal lifetime for the product, is pointless.
As for the new laptop, they would also have been perfectly within their rights to give him the same old model, refurbished, but they didn't. They gave him a brand new, current and upgraded model. They didn't have to, but they did. End of story.
And yes, that this thread is quickly running out of anything reasonably approaching a rational discussion is indeed my expert opinion. If you wish to set up more straw men, please PM me directly, but leave them out of this thread.
If someone calls up Firestone and says "I have 80,000 miles on my tires, and they wore out, I want new ones!" and Firestone has a policy of replacing tires with defects, should they have to send someone out to look at the tires before telling the customer "No, I'm sorry, that definitely falls under wear and tear, you've put the expected number of miles on them."? Of course not, that would be stupid. Ditto for a battery at 18 months. It falls within the expected lifespan, so inspecting it for defects would be similarly stupid, not to mention a waste of Apple's time and resources. The problem is that everyone can see and understand the wear of rubber over time, but for some reason some people can't fathom that the same sort of degradation can occur with batteries. Perhaps it's simply because it looks the same on the outside, I don't know. What I do know is that complaining that a consumable product isn't performing as it did immediately after purchase, after a timespan that is in line with the normal lifetime for the product, is pointless.
As for the new laptop, they would also have been perfectly within their rights to give him the same old model, refurbished, but they didn't. They gave him a brand new, current and upgraded model. They didn't have to, but they did. End of story.
And yes, that this thread is quickly running out of anything reasonably approaching a rational discussion is indeed my expert opinion. If you wish to set up more straw men, please PM me directly, but leave them out of this thread.
I am really starting to not like your attitude. It is obvious that you are 100% convinced that you're right and that I/We have nothing to complain about...not the battery, not the service reps attitude, nothing.
I didn't get upset with Apple because "I didn't like what I heard". You have no right to make that assumption, which is condesending an inappropriate. I took issue with the battery claim. I got upset with them because of the manner in which I was spoken to.
Apple was feeding me a line of bullshit. The one rep, Austin, even told me "[the battery life claim] was what he was told to say". Then, the second gentlemen took some info from me, and said "Apple is not interested in replacing the battery." Let me ask you, if the claim is that a battery should last only 18 months, did it matter what charging and usage info I provided him? Of course it didn't. I told him that I cycled the battery once every few weeks and used my computer with power adapter quite a bit. If I had told him that I mostly (or even never) used the battery alone, you think the response would be different? Of course it wouldn't be. It didn't matter what I told him. He'd come up with a reason not to replace it either way.
Aside: Whether it's covered or not, it should be. It's a $240 extended warranty. And as a further aside, yes, he should have been able to tell me how old the policy was. He also didn't say the battery wasn't covered. Which explanation of yours/his should I buy? Is it covered in general but not in this case? Is it not covered? Is 18 months a normal life? Was it my usage? Pick one.
As for the battery life itself, you can think what you'd like. I'm telling you again, though, I've had batteries in Dust Busters that last longer than 18 months. I use a large of amount of cordless devices, tools, etc. None of them have had this problem is such a short period of time. Not even the Ni-Cad powered ones, which pale in comparison to Li-ion.
Anyone posting here has to have knowledge of the trouble Apple has gotten itself into with batteries. It's a serious fault in their products that needs to be addressed.
As for you changing the thread title, that was inappropriate. Moderators do not just change thread titles because they can think of a better one. I'm not going to PM you about it because you didn't do me the courtesy of PMing me to let me know.
FWIW.... I had a battery replaced by Applecare for my 12" PowerBook. It was "crashing" from ~25% to 0% in the blink of an eye. I called them, talked to them reasonably... told them how inconvenient it was to be taking notes in class with a computer that will go to sleep unexpectedly, and they shipped me out a new battery.
The deal with Applecare is that the frontline is encouraged to deny claims. They don't have the power to 'bend' any policies, so don't bother fighting with them. Ask to speak to their supervisor, and work it from there. Be calm, explain yourself clearly, and express how this problem is an inconvenience and why it should be remedied.
Sounds like you just need to vent... which is understandable considering that you had a bad experience with the phone reps.
Keep in mind however that normal battery wear is not covered and that a 50% capacity degradation after 18 months isn't terribly unusual. Even modern batteries have relatively short life spans.
Did you know that I have also spoken to a rude person on the phone?
Comments
She used the laptop in every class for three school years, dragging it around in a book bag containing multiple big heavy law textbooks. And then she would use it into the wee hours, and.....start again the next day. She wore down the keys on the keyboard.
Not only did I survive her law school, she did also, as did the TiBook, .....until two days after her last final exam. It then started to exhibit re-booting problems. I finally got it going, with the instruction "don't ever turn it off", which worked until early June 2005.
After a system update, it wouldn't re-boot, and we dragged it to an Apple retail store, where the geniuses there verified it couldn't be started. Off it went to TiBook hospital, wherever that is.
One week later, I checked online, and it was "waiting for parts". After 10 business days, I called Applecare to inquire, and they escalated the case to "searching" for the part (presumably the motherboard) at the Apple repair shops across the company. After three weeks, my next inquiry was graciously escalated to the customer satisfaction level. All the while I had been polite, as were they. The customer relations representative sounded rather new at the position, and eventually came back from "hold" to say that someone from the local Apple retail store would call to offer to exchange the computer.
"For what, another old computer?" "Yes, like for like, another old computer". "I'm not sure I like that". "Well, talk to the Apple retail store rep when he calls".
So I stewed for a few minutes, and called the local retail store myself, not wanting to wait. I provided the repair number, and a brief description of my understanding of the situation, finishing by saying we'd rather wait for the part than take another old computer.
He said "I understand what you mean, I don't think I'd like that either. But that's not the way it works." "Oh?" "We'll give you a new computer."
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So, one week later, after the dead TiBook 667 was returned to the Apple retail store, they called us over to give us a new 15" Al PBG4 1.5 GHz, with all her data, emails, desktop pictures, etc installed perfectly on the new laptop.
They gave us the new computer without complaint, cheerfully, and with only three weeks left on the three year Applecare warranty, and my wife (the lawyer) is very very happy.
By the way, we bought Applecare for the new computer ;-)
My wife's iBook exhibited the video connector problem during AppleCare - first trip, they couldn't reproduce the problem, which the Apple Store Geniuses had been able to just fine. One week shot. Second trip, they fixed the wrong thing, *and* wiped the hard drive after she paid to have it saved and restored. Another week shot. She called AppleCare and complained... and got an iPod for $50. Yeah, it was another $50 to Apple, but it was a loss to them. (BTW, she loves the iPod.)
Sometimes the repair house isn't so hot, but the AppleCare folks have always been good in our experience. Sounds like SDW got a bad apple though, no pun intended.
Anyhow, finally got it back but I don't think the battery has been replaced. The Apple Support site didn't indicate that a repair was performed and so far, on first use, it's already down about three notches on the battery indicator after only playing 4 songs. I guess I'll know after Monday when I use it on my way to the office.
"e. Limitations.The Plan does not cover:...
...(x) Consumable parts, such as batteries, unless damage has occurred due to a defect in materials and workmanship;"
Link
Originally posted by Kickaha
Well, either you simply lucked out amazingly the first time (my guess - see if you can pull up your old AppleCare docs and see if the battery is covered - I don't believe it ever was), or they honored your old policy as written, and then changed it, and then you bought a new one without checking.
Serious question: how were they supposed to know to notify you about a chance in AppleCare policy? Track that you *had* bought one in the past, that you *were* buying one now, and then tell you at point of sale about any changes? Seems much easier and more reasonable for the customer to read the agreement before agreeing to it, just like an initial purchase. It's not like you bought one and then they changed *that* one.
Good luck getting it replaced, but to be honest, I'm not seeing where Apple did anything wrong on this. Batteries wear out, they're not covered by AppleCare (and to my recollection never have been), and Apple is doing precisely what you agreed to with them.
1. Batteries should not wear out in 18 months. Some people will tell you that's normal, but I disagree. I used to deal with all sorts of rechargable batteries. Even NiCads lasted longer than that.
2. I didn't ask to be notified of the change. What I asked Apple was "when did the policy change" and no one could tell me.
3. I may have had a sympathetic person the first time, but it didn't seem that way. It just seemed like standard procedure.
On a more subjective note, I feel that a $240 extended warranty should cover everything except accidental or delibrate/negligent damage. Maybe it's my fault for not reading, but when one has a previous issue resolved easily with AppleCare, one assumes that it won't be a problem the next time.
What pisses me off more than anything is their attitude. "We're not interested in replacing it" and then the first guy being kind of snotty little shit. That is very un-Apple from my experience.
As I said earlier, I disagree that I should have to kiss their ass. I'm the customer. It doesn't work that way. The company in question should work to keep my business. That's the way I've run my life as a consumer, and it's always worked well, that is unless an arrogant company like Apple steps into the picture.
Originally posted by Alpha Mac
Yep, well I'm sorry to say that batteries are not coverd under AppleCare as stated in the TOCs, and as far as I know batteries are not coverd in most warrantys.
"e. Limitations.The Plan does not cover:...
...(x) Consumable parts, such as batteries, unless damage has occurred due to a defect in materials and workmanship;"
Link
See above.
And you really need to consider that no one at Apple could tell you when the policy changed *because it never did*. I found *my* original Pismo AppleCare documentation, and guess what - batteries aren't covered.
The Pismo had a battery recall at one point, I suspect you merely lucked out. Perhaps the battery was covered under the recall and you didn't know it, perhaps you got a service person who simply misunderstood, or was in a really good mood.
Doesn't really matter though, because the policy has never changed. You were asking the Apple folks an impossible question. If I may guess, I'd say they told you this, but you didn't want to believe it, and stuck to asking? From their perspective, you may have sounded more than a little stubborn and irrational.
And yes, batteries are consumables, and yes, 18 months is *NORMAL* for current technologies if they are used daily, particularly if you don't follow the charging guidelines in the manual that came with the laptop. Which no one ever does.
I'm changing the title of this thread to be more reflective of the question at hand.
I'm sorry you felt like you had a bad experience with the service reps, but from a factual standpoint I'm not quite sure what your complaint would be about.
Had to go through hell to get it replaced, even resorted to sending that e-mail to steve jobs before I got a response worth anything. The representative argued with me for about an hour about how batteries were "consumables," batteries only had a year warranty because of this, and blah blah blah. 4 phone calls later I finally get a new one. The only thing that saved me was that about 6 months ago I complained about the battery life within that year, at that time they told me it was "normal."
Consumable parts, such as batteries, unless damage has occurred due to a defect in materials and workmanship;
How did apple know that battery is not dying due to "defect in materials and workmanship"?
Then never even took the battery and tested it?
This sound to me like like a breach of warranty, which is a serious offense in the country of the free, the home of the brave.
And yes, batteries are consumables, and yes, 18 months is *NORMAL* for current technologies if they are used daily, particularly if you don't follow the charging guidelines in the manual that came with the laptop.
Do you have any data to back that up? Where do you get this 18 months figure?
One week later, I checked online, and it was "waiting for parts". After 10 business days... and eventually came back from "hold" to say that someone from the local Apple retail store would call to offer to exchange the computer.
And you're saying you're happy with this? I'd be PISSED if I was without my laptop for 3 weeks! Lock and load!
Originally posted by skatman
How did apple know that battery is not dying due to "defect in materials and workmanship"?
Then never even took the battery and tested it?
This sound to me like like a breach of warranty, which is a serious offense in the country of the free, the home of the brave.
18 months == out of warrantee.
Do you have any data to back that up? Where do you get this 18 months figure?
Ask around. Ask people how long their batteries last, and how old they are. Ask them how often they buy a new one. 12-18 months is normal, and solidly in line with my own experiences. This has held from my PowerBook 180 on forward to my current PowerBook G4.
And you're saying you're happy with this? I'd be PISSED if I was without my laptop for 3 weeks! Lock and load!
You *DID* read that he got an entirely new laptop, right?
This thread is quickly losing any content to noise ratio it may have had.
To summarize:
Batteries are considered consumables by every manufacturer out there, including Apple.
Consumables are not covered under AppleCare, therefore batteries are not covered under AppleCare.
This is explicitly stated in the AppleCare documentation.
If you purchase AppleCare, your battery is not covered.
This has how it was always been, to the best of anyone's recollection or documentation.
Any previous instances of replaced batteries were due to recalls, replacement of obviously bad batteries while under original warrantee, or simply lucking out and getting a service rep that screwed up and gave you one against company policy.
Every company has a rude service rep in the bunch. Every so often you'll run across one.
That pretty much covers it.
18 months == out of warrantee.
Applecare is an extended warranty.
Ask around. Ask people how long their batteries last, and how old they are. Ask them how often they buy a new one.
Hmm... "asking around" is hardly a sure way of accurately determining "normal" battery life.
From my experience, battery life varies from anywhere between 12 and 36 months. But I don't know how to quantify "normal". How do you quantify *normal*?
Personally, I think that 18 months is low for a battery, but that is just me.
You *DID* read that he got an entirely new laptop, right?
Yeah, I can read. Apple only did it because they had no choice! They can't fix the problem in 3 WEEKS. It was the least they could do.
This thread is quickly losing any content to noise ratio it may have had.
You bet. The guy said over and over again, that he was mostly outraged at the rudeness of the customer support. And this very fact was lost in the first few replies.
This fact should have been at the top of your summary, not at the bottom.
Originally posted by Kickaha
You were asking the Apple folks an impossible question.
Shouldn't the service representative working on AppleCare issues know that AppleCare policy did not change then and notify the customer?
The customer (SDW2001) is saying that they never told him that it didn't change. A simple 'This has been our policy since mm/dd/yyyy sir, I'm sorry' would do the trick I think. But they never told him that. My guess is: under-qualified, ill-trained rude servicemen. That's Apple's fault.
Originally posted by SDW2001
Hello all,
As I promised Apple, I'm sharing my experience with all the Mac users I know:
I called the AppleCare line a few minutes ago to request a battery replacement on my 18 month old Powerbook G4, 15". I'm only getting about an hour to an hour and a half out of the battery, after typically getting up to three hours.
I was told that AppleCare didn't cover the battery.
Wrong. I got one replaced on Applecare. It was a little worse than yours (down to 10 minutes after a year!) but still they sent a new one pretty easily.
Amorya
Read the AppleCare agreement, batteries are not covered. It's right there in black and white. I can't see how this is even in question.
skatman: No, AppleCare is not a warrantee, as defined by law. It is an extended care contract, and is subject to simple contract law. The contract says batteries are not included. End of story.
As for giving him a brand new model, Apple certainly didn't have to do that. Replace kind with kind is all they have to do, but to upgrade him by a couple thousand dollars? That is not 'expected' behaviour in a company by anyone but those with serious entitlement issues.
Gene: Read SDW's original post. "I argued with them... I told him he was feeding me a line of bullshit..." My guess? They tried to tell him, he didn't like the answer because it went against what his prior (against policy) experience had been. He hasn't liked it here, I can only imagine he was more insistent on the phone. Of course, this is just conjecture.
This thread is really running out of content quickly.
applecare dosn't cover batteries older than 12 months
no! it's just not covered!
no yelling "APPLE FUCK YOU!" around is gonna change it.
the apple-guy on the hotline has had at least 20 guys with the exact same problem on the phone that day.
buy new battery!
skatman: No, AppleCare is not a warrantee, as defined by law.
Is this your free legal tip of day?
The contract says batteries are not included. End of story.
Did you even read applecare terms and conditions document?
It says under the limitations of applecare:
The following are not covered:
" Consumable parts, such as batteries, unless damage has occurred due to a defect in materials and workmanship;"
Do you see the second part of the sentence?
"unless damage has occurred due to a defect in materials and workmanship". As far as I understand this means that if the battery broke as a result of defect in materials and workmanship, Applecare DOES cover battery. Does it not?
In this case, Apple did not investigate whether the battery problem occured as a defect or due to, what you call, "normal wear and tear".
As for giving him a brand new model, Apple certainly didn't have to do that. Replace kind with kind is all they have to do, but to upgrade him by a couple thousand dollars?
If you care to look at part D of the applecare plan:
"Replacement Parts and Products. In the event Apple repairs or replaces your Covered Equipment, you understand and agree
that the replacement product and parts that Apple provides may be manufactured from new, refurbished, or serviceable used parts."
So a new laptop falls squarely within this agreement. Apple has not gone beyond the call of duty here.
Just tell me what company you work for. I'm make sure to avoid it!
This thread is really running out of content quickly.
Another expert opinion? (free of charge I hope)
If someone calls up Firestone and says "I have 80,000 miles on my tires, and they wore out, I want new ones!" and Firestone has a policy of replacing tires with defects, should they have to send someone out to look at the tires before telling the customer "No, I'm sorry, that definitely falls under wear and tear, you've put the expected number of miles on them."? Of course not, that would be stupid. Ditto for a battery at 18 months. It falls within the expected lifespan, so inspecting it for defects would be similarly stupid, not to mention a waste of Apple's time and resources. The problem is that everyone can see and understand the wear of rubber over time, but for some reason some people can't fathom that the same sort of degradation can occur with batteries. Perhaps it's simply because it looks the same on the outside, I don't know. What I do know is that complaining that a consumable product isn't performing as it did immediately after purchase, after a timespan that is in line with the normal lifetime for the product, is pointless.
As for the new laptop, they would also have been perfectly within their rights to give him the same old model, refurbished, but they didn't. They gave him a brand new, current and upgraded model. They didn't have to, but they did. End of story.
And yes, that this thread is quickly running out of anything reasonably approaching a rational discussion is indeed my expert opinion. If you wish to set up more straw men, please PM me directly, but leave them out of this thread.
Originally posted by Kickaha
skatman, look it up yourself.
If someone calls up Firestone and says "I have 80,000 miles on my tires, and they wore out, I want new ones!" and Firestone has a policy of replacing tires with defects, should they have to send someone out to look at the tires before telling the customer "No, I'm sorry, that definitely falls under wear and tear, you've put the expected number of miles on them."? Of course not, that would be stupid. Ditto for a battery at 18 months. It falls within the expected lifespan, so inspecting it for defects would be similarly stupid, not to mention a waste of Apple's time and resources. The problem is that everyone can see and understand the wear of rubber over time, but for some reason some people can't fathom that the same sort of degradation can occur with batteries. Perhaps it's simply because it looks the same on the outside, I don't know. What I do know is that complaining that a consumable product isn't performing as it did immediately after purchase, after a timespan that is in line with the normal lifetime for the product, is pointless.
As for the new laptop, they would also have been perfectly within their rights to give him the same old model, refurbished, but they didn't. They gave him a brand new, current and upgraded model. They didn't have to, but they did. End of story.
And yes, that this thread is quickly running out of anything reasonably approaching a rational discussion is indeed my expert opinion. If you wish to set up more straw men, please PM me directly, but leave them out of this thread.
I am really starting to not like your attitude. It is obvious that you are 100% convinced that you're right and that I/We have nothing to complain about...not the battery, not the service reps attitude, nothing.
I didn't get upset with Apple because "I didn't like what I heard". You have no right to make that assumption, which is condesending an inappropriate. I took issue with the battery claim. I got upset with them because of the manner in which I was spoken to.
Apple was feeding me a line of bullshit. The one rep, Austin, even told me "[the battery life claim] was what he was told to say". Then, the second gentlemen took some info from me, and said "Apple is not interested in replacing the battery." Let me ask you, if the claim is that a battery should last only 18 months, did it matter what charging and usage info I provided him? Of course it didn't. I told him that I cycled the battery once every few weeks and used my computer with power adapter quite a bit. If I had told him that I mostly (or even never) used the battery alone, you think the response would be different? Of course it wouldn't be. It didn't matter what I told him. He'd come up with a reason not to replace it either way.
Aside: Whether it's covered or not, it should be. It's a $240 extended warranty. And as a further aside, yes, he should have been able to tell me how old the policy was. He also didn't say the battery wasn't covered. Which explanation of yours/his should I buy? Is it covered in general but not in this case? Is it not covered? Is 18 months a normal life? Was it my usage? Pick one.
As for the battery life itself, you can think what you'd like. I'm telling you again, though, I've had batteries in Dust Busters that last longer than 18 months. I use a large of amount of cordless devices, tools, etc. None of them have had this problem is such a short period of time. Not even the Ni-Cad powered ones, which pale in comparison to Li-ion.
Anyone posting here has to have knowledge of the trouble Apple has gotten itself into with batteries. It's a serious fault in their products that needs to be addressed.
As for you changing the thread title, that was inappropriate. Moderators do not just change thread titles because they can think of a better one. I'm not going to PM you about it because you didn't do me the courtesy of PMing me to let me know.
The deal with Applecare is that the frontline is encouraged to deny claims. They don't have the power to 'bend' any policies, so don't bother fighting with them. Ask to speak to their supervisor, and work it from there. Be calm, explain yourself clearly, and express how this problem is an inconvenience and why it should be remedied.
I've always had good luck in this respect. YMMV
Keep in mind however that normal battery wear is not covered and that a 50% capacity degradation after 18 months isn't terribly unusual. Even modern batteries have relatively short life spans.
Did you know that I have also spoken to a rude person on the phone?