TREO 670... Runs... Windows Mobile?!

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
Bear firmly in mind that this could be the iWalk (i.e., fake) of 2005:



http://www.i4u.com/article3979.html



http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000840053340/



If this is true, is it a brilliant move by Palm (or Palm Source, or Palm WTF) to take market share from ipaqs, or a suicidal move that will only hasten the demise of the Palm OS?



The world has turned upside down AND inside out.



And I was this -><- close to ordering a Treo 650.....





Aries 1B
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 26
    ijerryijerry Posts: 615member
    Its official. Everything I purchase will in a month's time switch entirely to a new platform or OS. I bought a dual G5 and they go intel. I buy a Treo 650 and they go windows.



    Is anything sacred anymore??!!
  • Reply 2 of 26
    cosmonutcosmonut Posts: 4,872member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by ijerry

    Is anything sacred anymore??!!



    Candy Canes.
  • Reply 3 of 26
    Windows CE.NET isn't that bad. The iPaq implementation, however, sucks. When you shut it down it doesn't shut off the RAM (and dump the contents to NAND) so you need to keep it in its cradle. Since 128MB of iPaq RAM guzzles down 126mW in sleep mode, (the batteries are usually no more than 4000 to 5000mWh) it doesn't give you a long time to keep it away from its cradle.



    Yes, this is some major shtick, and it comes from developing industrial-market ARM9 hardware, but it's relevant . . . I think. If the Treo makes up for the iPaq's and Axim's deficiencies (thier sub-kernel software both suck) it will be a substantially better product than either.



    As for WinCE, well, it's not by any stretch an RTOS (as it claims), and when you use .NET the battery life hits rock-bottom (again, RAM use is a big determinant), but it is easy to develop for and is relatively stable.
  • Reply 4 of 26
    aries 1baries 1b Posts: 1,009member
    Palm seems to be running from the MacOS just as fast as it can.



    I just bought my daughter a Zire 72 (and a Tungsten T5 for me )



    Amazing. "We've been working pretty closely with these guys." Not anymore, evidently.



    V/R,



    Aries 1B
  • Reply 5 of 26
    Interesting ...



    http://news.com.com/Making+the+case+...9076&subj=news



    Quote:

    Making the case for Windows on Palm devices

    Published: August 11, 2005, 12:42 PM PDT

    By Ina Fried

    Staff Writer, CNET News.com

    TrackBackPrintE-mailTalkBack



    A senior Palm executive says his company could benefit from building a mobile computing device that runs on the Windows operating system made by once-bitter rival Microsoft.



    In an interview, Palm Chief Financial Officer Andrew Brown said that building a Treo that runs on the mobile version of Windows might help the company woo corporate customers who have been reticent to buy its Palm OS-based gadgets.



    "CIOs don't get fired for using Microsoft products," Brown said, though he did not say whether Palm has such a product in the works.



    What's new:

    Palm's money man says there are benefits to offering a Windows Mobile-based Treo, but is stopping short of confirming the maker will do so.

    Bottom line:

    Palm has long said it would consider using a non-Palm operating system, but the time may be right for it to do so as Microsoft steps up its mobile e-mail push.



    With Sony's decision to exit the handheld market and the closure of Tapwave, maker of the Zodiac handheld gaming device, Palm has emerged as the only major backer of the Palm OS, which is sold by PalmSource, a separately traded Palm spinoff.



    Despite that shared heritage with PalmSource, Brown described Palm as neutral to the operating system its devices use--and the types of e-mail servers to which they connect.



    "The fact is we are Switzerland, whether it be over the e-mail server or the OS," Brown told CNET News.com last week after a presentation to financial analysts at an RBC Capital Markets conference in San Francisco.



    Nonetheless, Palm isn't likely to abandon the Palm OS. Brown noted that the company just extended its deal with PalmSource, paving the way for future generations of Palm OS products as well.



    Brown's comments come just as enthusiast sites are buzzing with photos and videos purporting to be a next-generation Treo running Windows Mobile on a Verizon-branded device. The company has been studying other operating systems, including Windows Mobile, for some time.



    Charles Golvin, an analyst with Forrester Research, said that if the photos of a Windows Treo product making the rounds are authentic, the product should be reasonably close to shipping to carriers and could be in consumers' hands by the end of this year.



    Despite Brown's comments, a Palm representative declined to say whether the company has such a device in the works, but reiterated Palm's past statement that the ability to offer a choice of operating systems was one of the benefits of spinning off PalmSource. "We only would consider offering another OS as an additional choice if customers want it and if it represented incremental business," the Palm representative added.



    A Microsoft representative declined to comment.



    Palm, which once had the vast majority of the handheld market, has seen its share drop in recent years. Last November, Microsoft for the first time surpassed Palm in the number of handhelds shipped using its operating system, according to Gartner.



    In a report earlier this month, Gartner showed the Palm OS running on just 19 percent of handhelds, compared with 46 percent of devices running Windows Mobile and 23 percent running Research In Motion's software. Gartner's figures include handhelds and wireless devices like the traditional BlackBerry, but exclude smart phones, including the Treo.



    Palm has already taken some steps to move itself closer to Windows. Last October, the company inked a deal with Microsoft to allow Palm OS-based Treos to connect directly to Microsoft Exchange 2003 e-mail servers. That feature is standard on the current Treo 650.



    IDC analyst Kevin Burden said a move to offer a Windows Mobile-based Treo is somewhat expected, given that even PalmSource appears to be headed in new directions. PalmSource has recently been talking up a move to port the Palm OS to run on top of Linux, announcing a deal this week with MontaVista Software.





    "They are becoming less beholden to the PalmOS themselves," Burden said. "If PalmSource itself doesn't have this unbreakable loyalty, why should Palm?"



    Burden said that the technical aspects of adding Windows Mobile to the Treo are relatively straightforward. The bigger challenge, he said, is coming up with the resources to develop and support products for multiple operating systems.



    Still, despite the costs, Burden said that Palm executives may feel they need to offer a Windows option, in case Microsoft strikes a nerve with its latest moves to improve wireless e-mail on mobile devices.



    "I just don't think Palm wants to be left out of that," Burden said.



    For Microsoft, such a deal would allow it to work its way onto the screens of one of its longest-standing competitors. It would also allow Redmond to showcase its latest operating system, Windows Mobile 5, on the Treo, which is one of the most popular smart-phone designs.



    Although much of the operating system diversification speculation has centered on Windows Mobile, Brown also held out the possibility that Palm could work with other one-time rivals such as RIM or Symbian.



    Whatever the operating systems at its core, any new generation of Treo is likely to add support for one of the upcoming "3G," or third-generation, cellular networks, such as Evolution Data Only or the Universal Mobile Telephone System.



    "Over the next 12 months, the majority of devices in the higher-end price range are going to be 3G devices," Brown said. "I think that's what carriers want."



    CNET News.com's Michael Singer and Stephen Shankland contributed to this report.




  • Reply 6 of 26
    thttht Posts: 3,036member
    I've got a Verizon Treo 650 right now. I'll trade up to the Treo 670 if it comes out with at least all of the same hardware specs as the 650.



    Palm OS is what, basically unchanged for 3 years now?
  • Reply 7 of 26
    Quote:

    "CIOs don't get fired for using Microsoft products," Brown said, though he did not say whether Palm has such a product in the works.



    That's what people were saying about IBM 40 years ago.
  • Reply 8 of 26
    rokrok Posts: 3,519member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by ThinkingDifferent

    That's what people were saying about IBM 40 years ago.



    damn, you beat me to it.
  • Reply 9 of 26
    Quote:

    Originally posted by rok

    damn, you beat me to it.



    Kinda makes you wonder about the fate of Microsoft.
  • Reply 10 of 26
    rokrok Posts: 3,519member
    i mentioned this to someone else recently, but if you're like me, you've probably read the online interview between wil shipley and mike matas about delicious monster, and steve job's stanford speech, and even little parts of the true audion story at panic. and one common thread in all of those is something wil shipley sid when he was "ousted" from omni, and reminded a bit from pieces i have picked up from job's original departure, and even panic's refusal (well, more like amicably turned down) offer to work for apple:



    Quote:

    from wil shipley, co-founder of omni and founder of delicious monster



    My feeling was (and is): You don't adopt the mannerisms of big, successful companies when you're small, because those mannerisms aren't what made the companies successful.



    They're actually symptoms of what is killing the company, because it's become too big. It's like if you meet an really old, really rich guy covered in liver spots and breathing with an oxygen tank, and you say, "I want to be rich, too, so I'm going to start walking with a cane and I'm going to act crotchety and I'm going to get liver disease."



    The really important thing to remember is that what worked once won't necessarily work again, and in fact is less likely to work again because it's been done.



    so when i hear someone repeat, almost verbatim that adage about "no (insert major management title here) ever got fired for buying (insert major brand name here)," it just makes me want to shake my head in disbelief.
  • Reply 11 of 26
    thttht Posts: 3,036member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by rok

    so when i hear someone repeat, almost verbatim that adage about "no (insert major management title here) ever got fired for buying (insert major brand name here)," it just makes me want to shake my head in disbelief.



    I'm not quite sure how that statement is relevant to Palm's situation. By corporate fiat, Palm (PalmOne) is purely a hardware maker and PalmSource is purely a software maker. They only interact through the licensing of PalmOS.



    All those geniuses over there (lots of ex-Apple execs btw) decided to listen to the continuous mantra about it being good business practice to split up the original Palm company into a hardware and a software company. They are only reaping what they have sown.



    PalmSource has cratered and has not updated PalmOS for years now. Cobalt (BeMedia on Palm) is seemingly orphaned and Palm UI on Linux is still gestating. It's been about 3 years since there was an update to the OS. There looks to be no real PalmOS update in 2005 either. It now looks like Gassee (ex-CEO of Be) is running PalmSource as well.



    For Palm, nee PalmOne, it looks like they have no choice but to court MS Windows Mobile if they want to continue selling hardware. Either that, or start building a smartphone OS themselves.
  • Reply 12 of 26
    rokrok Posts: 3,519member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by THT

    I'm not quite sure how that statement is relevant to Palm's situation. By corporate fiat, Palm (PalmOne) is purely a hardware maker and PalmSource is purely a software maker. They only interact through the licensing of PalmOS.



    All those geniuses over there (lots of ex-Apple execs btw) decided to listen to the continuous mantra about it being good business practice to split up the original Palm company into a hardware and a software company. They are only reaping what they have sown.



    PalmSource has cratered and has not updated PalmOS for years now. Cobalt (BeMedia on Palm) is seemingly orphaned and Palm UI on Linux is still gestating. It's been about 3 years since there was an update to the OS. There looks to be no real PalmOS update in 2005 either. It now looks like Gassee (ex-CEO of Be) is running PalmSource as well.



    For Palm, nee PalmOne, it looks like they have no choice but to court MS Windows Mobile if they want to continue selling hardware. Either that, or start building a smartphone OS themselves.




    well, yeah, it doesn't help that palmsource seems to have trouble getting ANYone to take it seriously anymore. so the whole "you shouldn't do it that way" finger wagging i gave them doesn't work if there ISN'T a viable alternative.
  • Reply 13 of 26
    aries 1baries 1b Posts: 1,009member
    By the end of this coming week, I'm *probably* going to order a Treo650.



    Missing Synch is quite good. I've got it synching the wife's and daughters' PDAs.



    The Verizon deal looks better and better.



    (Just thought that I should announce this after alerting AppleInsider to the fact that the next Treo will probably be a Windows machine. Fair is fair.)



    Tungsten T5 for work (no camera)



    Treo 650 for personal stuff.



    V/R,



    Aries 1B
  • Reply 14 of 26
    frank777frank777 Posts: 5,770member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by THT

    All those geniuses over there (lots of ex-Apple execs btw) decided to listen to the continuous mantra about it being good business practice to split up the original Palm company into a hardware and a software company. They are only reaping what they have sown.



    PalmSource has cratered and has not updated PalmOS for years now. Cobalt (BeMedia on Palm) is seemingly orphaned and Palm UI on Linux is still gestating. It's been about 3 years since there was an update to the OS. There looks to be no real PalmOS update in 2005 either. It now looks like Gassee (ex-CEO of Be) is running PalmSource as well.



    For Palm, nee PalmOne, it looks like they have no choice but to court MS Windows Mobile if they want to continue selling hardware. Either that, or start building a smartphone OS themselves.




    Splitting up the company was definitely a bad move. No doubt about that.



    It's also true that the PalmOS hasn't been updated for awhile and is running out of steam. However, I'm not sure things are as bad as they seem.



    PalmSource has let their OS stagnate, which means all resources have been redirected to the new OS. The parallels with Apple are striking. Cobalt is dead and this is their "Copland" moment. Just as Apple emerged from their dark days by embracing open-source underpinnings, so too PalmSource is looking to Linux as the future.



    The company is going to be changing their whole brand name very soon as part of the recent deal with Palm. I imagine that the name of the OS will change to reflect this as well.



    The big question is whether a whole new handheld brand, along with a whole bunch of new Linux developers, will lead to a whole new ballgame.
  • Reply 15 of 26
    thttht Posts: 3,036member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Frank777

    PalmSource has let their OS stagnate, which means all resources have been redirected to the new OS. The parallels with Apple are striking. Cobalt is dead and this is their "Copland" moment. Just as Apple emerged from their dark days by embracing open-source underpinnings, so too PalmSource is looking to Linux as the future.



    It's not that close of a parallel, really. It is PalmSource that is updating the operating system to PalmUI-on-Linux, not Palm. PalmSource is a wholly separate company from Palm. That one big difference is enough.



    Palm, the hardware company, has the choice of using a PalmSource OS or a Microsoft OS.



    If in fact this Treo 670 w/WM5 appears, I think that will be it for Palm, the hardware company, using PalmSource software. The inertia to support only 1 OS will be two great and PalmSource is in a very weak position right now.



    Push email will be coming to the Windows Mobile platform. With the server being a Microsoft product, the push server being a Microsoft product, the PIM being a Microsoft product, and the handheld OS being a Microsoft product, I don't think Palm, the hardware company, will ignore that.



    Push email is the killer app. PalmSource is starting from scratch on it - I'm sure they'll license RIM software for it, but still from scratch - and I don't see how Palm the hardware company could ignore the Microsoft integrated solution in favor of Palmsource.



    Quote:

    The big question is whether a whole new handheld brand, along with a whole bunch of new Linux developers, will lead to a whole new ballgame.



    I hope so. I'm just hoping for much better integration with personal computers. Right now, syncing is a mess. The other gigantic mess that needs addressing are the crappy handheld GUIs. They're just horrible.
  • Reply 16 of 26
    frank777frank777 Posts: 5,770member
    Looks like the PalmOS Treo may not be dead after all.







    Purported Treo 700 mockup



    Wow. I buy this the day they introduce it.
  • Reply 17 of 26
    thttht Posts: 3,036member
    Treonauts.com is faster and better than PalmInfoCenter.com. TreoCentral.com is also very good, with better informed discussion than PalmInfoCenter as well.



    Those guys seem as obsessive as Mac fans, and beta testers seem to break NDAs like there is no tomorrow.



  • Reply 18 of 26
    frank777frank777 Posts: 5,770member
    Good to know.



    BTW, most of the speculation so far is that the new Treo will be out early next year.

    That's too bad. Would make an amazing Christmas present.
  • Reply 19 of 26
    thttht Posts: 3,036member
    PalmSource has been sold to Japanese mobile web browser company, ACCESS, for $324 million. Don't know the pluses or minuses of this one yet.



    I guess Gassee got a $300+ million sale of his company after all.



    I'm still of the opinion that Treo 670 with Windows Mobile and MS Exchange Push email will be a very good business tool, and a mortal danger to RIM.
  • Reply 20 of 26
    andersanders Posts: 6,523member
    So first you and your wife gets separate bedrooms to get better sleep and be more caring for eachother, but instead you use the opportunity to smuggle your secretary in through the Windows each night?
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