Final curtain call for PowerPC-based PowerBooks?

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  • Reply 61 of 210
    rokrok Posts: 3,519member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by melgross

    We don't know what will happen. This is just a rumor, after all. Nothing was actually said about the 12" anyway.



    If it is that popular, then it won't be discontinued. No one discontinues a really popukar product unless they have something in the wings to replace it with that's similar enough but with better placement (more/different features, cheaper, etc.).



    If it isn't that popular, then they aren't making money on it, and should discontinue it.




    strangely enough, the quality of the 12" display compared to the 15" or 17" has always been a sticking point with me. is it a power-consumption thing, or are they manufactured by someone else? i think they are popular for their size despite that (and lack of a few niceties like backlit keyboard and pc card slot), but now that the high-end books keep comign down in price, i think the geeks of us who have been waiting are more willing to shell out for those niceties and leave the 12" hangin'.



    one wonders if they would cram every good thing from the 15 and 17 into the powerbook... somehow... if it would sell even better. hell, i would love to have one. a 12" pbook is about the size of my wacom tablet, for crying out loud! (not the active area, the whole physical unit). between the 12" 'book, a tablet, one of those super-small usb-powered scanners and a small camera, you've got studio-in-a-bag.



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  • Reply 62 of 210
    Quote:

    Originally posted by melgross

    The 1.42 was an overclocked 1.25.



    False!

    The 1.42GHz CPUs were XPC parts, not MPC!
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  • Reply 63 of 210
    All I know is the specs that were posted arent that bad and if they do release new PBs along those lines I will be hard pressed not to pick one up.



    I dont want to do the whole rev. a thing again and I think the last of the G4 PB would be a good purchase.
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  • Reply 64 of 210
    reidreid Posts: 190member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Booga

    Yawn.



    I want a Pentium M PowerBook already!




    So? Go get one.
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  • Reply 65 of 210
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,687member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by THT

    There was 6 months ago. Looks like Freescale has wiped all reference to it in their online documentation.







    It's unlikely that Intel and IBM are sharing their solutions to the problems they've had at 90nm. Not to mention that IBM is still having problems either. Any problems that Freescale is having, they have to work out on their own, or they can pay for "assistance" from fabs who've been through it already.




    It isn't necessary for them to have shared the solutions. The problems are well documented in the journals as well as most of the solutions. I would imagine that Freescales engineers and scientists are well versed enough in the field to be able to squeeze what they needed to know out of that information.
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  • Reply 66 of 210
    webmailwebmail Posts: 639member
    Oh that's fantastic. New screens, and what after only 3 years? So now I'll have a beautiful screen to continue seeing that wonderful rainbow beachball on. But now it will be even clearer. SWEET!





    Quote:

    Originally posted by satchmo

    If the article is indeed true, it would be greatly welcomed despite it's relatively minor speed gains.



    If Apple can rachet these 17" PB's to 1.8ghz, and the 15" (and 12" if it's not axed) to 1.67ghz across the line, it would at least provide some distance from the iBook line.




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  • Reply 67 of 210
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,687member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Fat Freddy

    False!

    The 1.42GHz CPUs were XPC parts, not MPC!




    What are you talking about? There are no customer production chips that start with XPC!



    Learn what the "X" means before you jump into things. This is from their data sheets:



    2. The X prefix in a Motorola part number designates a ?Pilot Production Prototype? as defined by Motorola SOP 3-13. These are from a limited production volume of prototypes manufactured, tested, and Q.A. inspected on a qualified technology to simulate normal production. These parts have only preliminary reliability and characterization data. Before pilot production prototypes may be shipped, written authorization from the customer must be on file in the applicable sales office acknowledging the qualification status and the fact that product changes may still occur while shipping pilot production prototypes.
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  • Reply 68 of 210
    thttht Posts: 5,876member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by melgross

    It isn't necessary for them to have shared the solutions. The problems are well documented in the journals as well as most of the solutions. I would imagine that Freescales engineers and scientists are well versed enough in the field to be able to squeeze what they needed to know out of that information.



    Hmm, you're confident that Freescale/Philips et al, who are 2 years behind Intel, Intel, AMD with billions less dollars, is capable of learning from the mistakes of the leaders of the pack? I'm not so confident. There are so far behind for good reasons afterall.
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  • Reply 69 of 210
    satchmosatchmo Posts: 2,699member
    quote:Originally posted by oberpongo

    One easy explanation for the dropping of the 12" PB is, that it will be replaced by a cool new form-factor 13.3" Widescreen (1280x800)HD PB at around 2kg (4 lbs) (probably built by ASUSTEK)

    And that thing will be very sweet.



    Quote:

    Originally posted by melgross

    This is just a big guess, right?





    Actually, that would be more of a wish than anything. Alas, at least we Macheads know how to dream.
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  • Reply 70 of 210
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,687member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by THT

    Hmm, you're confident that Freescale/Philips et al, who are 2 years behind Intel, Intel, AMD with billions less dollars, is capable of learning from the mistakes of the leaders of the pack? I'm not so confident. There are so far behind for good reasons afterall.



    They seem behind because they don't compete in the same space. If you go to their site you will find Power PC is under embedded chips. While in the charts they describe the 74-- line as suitable for servers, that's only because Apple uses those chips, and the descriptions are several years out of date.



    They market to the automobile market im which they are very sucessful. The printer market is a big one as well. Machinery control does not require the same performance that leading edge personal computers do. But they don't care because they are getting out of that market.



    It isn't so much that they can't do something, as it is that they don't have the interest in doing it. They know very well that they can never gain marketshare in the personal computer space because of the domination of x86. So they work elsewhere. they have a very large line of PPC chips, and they are quite sucessful in the areas that they are in - even more so than Intel.
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  • Reply 71 of 210
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,687member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by satchmo

    quote:Originally posted by oberpongo

    One easy explanation for the dropping of the 12" PB is, that it will be replaced by a cool new form-factor 13.3" Widescreen (1280x800)HD PB at around 2kg (4 lbs) (probably built by ASUSTEK)

    And that thing will be very sweet.









    Actually, that would be more of a wish than anything. Alas, at least we Macheads know how to dream.




    Well, if you could play like your namesake, we could all listen and dream.
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  • Reply 72 of 210
    ok, so with a final G4 update this september, and the first intel sometime H1 2006-ish, does anyone think there is a possibility of a rev b intel PB coming out before next september? i'll be going to college then, and i would love to have an intel PB, but i don't necessarily want a rev a. the bugs and problems make me very wary. and getting the last G4 means i'd have a year-old computer before i even start school. or do you think it would be worth it to buy an original mactel and just get applecare so that i'm mostly covered (of course, i'd be getting applecare anyways...)? if the first mactel PB's came out in march-ish, that would be fantastic, and it seems at least moderately likely... what does anyone else think?









    a 13.3" would be pretty sweet, too...
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  • Reply 73 of 210
    The next PowerBook G4 will be the new "Pismo". Best of its kind.



    Also, if Tiger is the new "OS 9", then I'm to do as before and stay with my "OS 8" (in this case Panther) until the bugs are worked out on the next release.



    Too many transitions, and repurchasing of software suites. OpenSource platforms beginning to temp...must resist..., lack of corporate control so..alluring...! what?! no iTunes support?!



    Oh blessed iPod, you keep me focused!
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  • Reply 74 of 210
    errr high definition wide screen is probably the best thing on the list. ddr2 ram isnt really that great because its latency is way higher than ddr and the bus speed jumps are good but its not like theyll help that much. i think it is a much needed update for the powerbook line though. there is basically no real reason to spend 500 more on a powerbook instead of an iBook.
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  • Reply 75 of 210
    sunilramansunilraman Posts: 8,133member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by SteveGTA

    errr high definition wide screen is probably the best thing on the list. ddr2 ram isnt really that great because its latency is way higher than ddr and the bus speed jumps are good but its not like theyll help that much. i think it is a much needed update for the powerbook line though. there is basically no real reason to spend 500 more on a powerbook instead of an iBook.



    i'm with the ddr2 camp. why?

    1. marketing. ddr2 is better than ddr, most people will think

    2. infineon execs have claimed ddr2 sodimms will be more compact, less powerconsuming than ddr. this might be true.

    3. umm... it just sounds better!



    well anyway, i'll continue...



    my sony 17" is at 1280x1024. anything that is 720p HDTV capable is fine. a lot of hardcore PC heads will want 1600x1200 crammed into this 4:3 17", but guess what? TOO SMALL, and forcing your games to run at that higher res takes an unnecessary toll on your overall fps and hence the fluidity and enjoyability of your gaming experience. also, it's TOO SMALL! i have probably like 40/40 eyesight, don't use glasses, but not a lot of people can resolve a lot of pixel level detail, a lot of higher res especially on PC screens is just marketing hype and not sensible.
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  • Reply 76 of 210
    dhagan4755dhagan4755 Posts: 2,152member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by AppleInsider

    Two new models that have shown up on radar are referenced as the PowerBook5,8 and the PowerBook5,9. Both Apple's current 15-inch and 17-inch PowerBook G4 systems identify themselves as the PowerBook5,7, with the 12-inch model being listed as a member of the iBook family (PowerBook6,8 ).



    This report doesn't make sense. Every 15- and 17-inch PowerBook has been classified by a singular model number, as is noted. But this report says two new 15- and 17-inch models come in as PowerBook5,8 and PowerBook5,9. Why would Apple's scheme change, especially after it is anticipated these are minor updates at the end of the PPC line?
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  • Reply 77 of 210
    Quote:

    Originally posted by sunilraman

    i'm with the ddr2 camp. why?

    1. marketing. ddr2 is better than ddr, most people will think

    2. infineon execs have claimed ddr2 sodimms will be more compact, less powerconsuming than ddr. this might be true.

    3. umm... it just sounds better!



    well anyway, i'll continue...



    my sony 17" is at 1280x1024. anything that is 720p HDTV capable is fine. a lot of hardcore PC heads will want 1600x1200 crammed into this 4:3 17", but guess what? TOO SMALL, and forcing your games to run at that higher res takes an unnecessary toll on your overall fps and hence the fluidity and enjoyability of your gaming experience. also, it's TOO SMALL! i have probably like 40/40 eyesight, don't use glasses, but not a lot of people can resolve a lot of pixel level detail, a lot of higher res especially on PC screens is just marketing hype and not sensible.




    i totally agree that it is good for marketing but besides the minor gains that you get from it vs. ddr it isnt that great. but that is just for right now, once they get ddr2 more refined and stuff ddr will be considerably better than ddr. although by the time they do that they may be using ddr3(used on all high end video cards) which is really nice stuff.



    and then ur second point about high resolution on games is a good point but people are more likely to want a higher resolution on a mac for other things that dont demand high FPS like web browsing and photo viewing etc.
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  • Reply 78 of 210
    Quote:

    Originally posted by melgross

    My thouhts about a G5 PB have been that they could do it as they have had to have been working on one for some while. These new designs don't spring from the head of Zeus, so to speak. There is quite a time for gestation.



    If Apple tests it, and finds that the heat, power usage and speed are all within expectations, then they might wery well release it. They don't have to have it in the whole line.



    The question is whether the 1.6GHz G5 will work for them. Is a 1.6GHz G5 sufficiently more powerful than a 1,7 GHz 7448 G4 to warrant it? Also the speed is lower than the G4. Not by much, but how would it look? Could Apple get it up to 1.7 or 1.75 to appear faster in that way as well?



    If they could, and the performance is 25% better than what we have now, then it might be worth it, if it didn't have a life of 2 hours or less, and didn't burn the skin off your thighs.




    The costs of ramping up a new product for one revision would be a lot higher than that spread out over 2-3+ years that a normal product exists. With the G5 they would have to contract out the tooling of a new MotherBoard, internals and case and recoup that cost in the (likely) 12 months that the product would be offered. Then there would be the cost of supporting that product with repair parts, documentation and training for repair techs, for the a few years as well. Even if all the R&D was done, and the chips ready to be delivered a wise person would scrap the release before all the other costs associated with the release were incured and go without an upgrade, opting instead to push foreword the timetable for the Intel switch. G5 isn't going to happen.



    As for the G4, well PowerLogix has released a 2 Ghz 7447 upgrade for PM's, and with the smaller process and other improvements that the 7448 has one would logically assume that even if it is not anounced there is a faster chip available.



    I seam to remember that there was a scandal with one of the upgrade manufacturers a number of years ago about processor speeds, and the company pointed out that the chips are are tested and certified to meet the requirements of the contract. This particular case was an issue of the upgrade company buying a lot that originally ordered by another customer and the chips were certified at one speed, but in and environment with a higher operating temperature than the chips would be used in. Given the lower temperature of the Mac case they meet the speed requirements that they were sold as and were not clocked up, however IBM (i think) had printed the clock speed from the original contract on them so there were complaints from customers about thier purchase.
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  • Reply 79 of 210
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,687member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by exhibit_13

    ok, so with a final G4 update this september, and the first intel sometime H1 2006-ish, does anyone think there is a possibility of a rev b intel PB coming out before next september? i'll be going to college then, and i would love to have an intel PB, but i don't necessarily want a rev a. the bugs and problems make me very wary. and getting the last G4 means i'd have a year-old computer before i even start school. or do you think it would be worth it to buy an original mactel and just get applecare so that i'm mostly covered (of course, i'd be getting applecare anyways...)? if the first mactel PB's came out in march-ish, that would be fantastic, and it seems at least moderately likely... what does anyone else think?









    a 13.3" would be pretty sweet, too...




    It's possible there could be another update. But it all depends on the cpu. If Freescale gets the speed up, we might see it. Apple really has to do nothing other than drop the faster cpu in. They could do a marginal rev. with a bigger HD, possibly a faster GPU. This could be in Jan. The engineering is minimal, and the production line change is too.



    The question is whether they will surprise us with the G5 or not. I don't trust this rumor because Apple has really been keeping it tight to the chest as of late.



    I don't think we will see the x86 until May, unless it's a Mini. It would depend on which and how many 3rd party apps are ready to go.



    The better the machine, and the later it's introduced before the x86's, the less chance of losing sales.



    The 13.3 is not something to wait for. I'm not saying it's impossible, just that there's no evidence as yet for it.



    Remember, this is a rumor. Lack of word about the 12" doesn't mean anything now.
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  • Reply 80 of 210
    thttht Posts: 5,876member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by melgross

    They seem behind because they don't compete in the same space. If you go to their site you will find Power PC is under embedded chips. While in the charts they describe the 74-- line as suitable for servers, that's only because Apple uses those chips, and the descriptions are several years out of date.



    They market to the automobile market im which they are very sucessful. The printer market is a big one as well. Machinery control does not require the same performance that leading edge personal computers do. But they don't care because they are getting out of that market.



    It isn't so much that they can't do something, as it is that they don't have the interest in doing it. They know very well that they can never gain marketshare in the personal computer space because of the domination of x86. So they work elsewhere. they have a very large line of PPC chips, and they are quite sucessful in the areas that they are in - even more so than Intel.




    Freescale, nee Motorola, has had a reputation for dirty fabs for years on end now, all the way back to 220 nm and the 7400 "500 MHz" debacle, and have gradually fallen further behind every year after that. Schedules and roadmaps for fab rampups were late at every node. AMD essentially abandoned them for IBM for their 90 nm tech. Lastly, they did not have the funds to go at it alone at 90 nm, and had to combine forces with Philips and STMicro to get there. Crolles may actually be clean given that it seems to be a Philips fab, but Freescale has a lot of work to do to get their circuits working well at 90 nm.



    No, they are not behind by choice. It is in their best interest to have the most advanced process node as possible with mutlicore embedded processors being offered by all of Freescale's competition. They are in a precarious situation right now, and will be in the foreseeable future.
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