I went to church.
Believe it. In Oslo.
Now, this was the first church service I've ever been to that wasn't a wedding or a funeral, and it was a bit special.
I like jazz. I have an album by Tørd Gustavsen, a pianist, that I played continuously when I first got it. Spiritual, minimal, glacial Norwegian-type jazz. I was only there for two full days, and in the paper when me and my new Norwegian squeeze were deciding what to do, we saw that, as insane luck would have it, Tørd was playing.
In a church, as part of a service, for free.
Well, bloody hell, we thought. We both love Tørd Gustavsen. This we have to see. Bound to be rammed, we thought, so we'll get there early. We got there an hour early to find only him and a trumpeter, sort of warming up, oiling the sustain pedal. "Hello!" they said. We sat down and when the service started there were only about 50 people there, and of them perhaps five looked they'd turned up to hear the music. I got my programme, or whatever it's called, so I could sing along.
The vicar would speak (gave a long shout out about solidarity with the people of New Orleans when he was talking about Lazarus) and then Tørd and the trumpeter would play something beautiful and minimal that turned into a hymn, and then he'd play the hymn and we were listening to one of the world's greatest jazz pianists playing a little church piano while the congregation sang along. I said all the 'amens', sang along, repeated the repeaty-bits.
The vicar hit a prayer bell and there was silence for three minutes, and I even said (God help me) a prayer. Well, I thought about the world and wished for specific things to get better, and thought about myself and how I wished to be better in specific ways, wishing these things would come about somehow. Then later the congregation were invited to bang their heels on the floor in a heartbeat and Tørd and the trumpeter played on top of it after a while. The trumpeter finished by blowing through his trumpet, unvoiced. It was beautiful.
It was very, very cool. Nice Christian stuff.
Still don't believe in any god or gods, not going to be joining any of my local congregations, but... respect to Jesus and His followers for that experience which had an effect on me. Nice.
Now, this was the first church service I've ever been to that wasn't a wedding or a funeral, and it was a bit special.
I like jazz. I have an album by Tørd Gustavsen, a pianist, that I played continuously when I first got it. Spiritual, minimal, glacial Norwegian-type jazz. I was only there for two full days, and in the paper when me and my new Norwegian squeeze were deciding what to do, we saw that, as insane luck would have it, Tørd was playing.
In a church, as part of a service, for free.
Well, bloody hell, we thought. We both love Tørd Gustavsen. This we have to see. Bound to be rammed, we thought, so we'll get there early. We got there an hour early to find only him and a trumpeter, sort of warming up, oiling the sustain pedal. "Hello!" they said. We sat down and when the service started there were only about 50 people there, and of them perhaps five looked they'd turned up to hear the music. I got my programme, or whatever it's called, so I could sing along.
The vicar would speak (gave a long shout out about solidarity with the people of New Orleans when he was talking about Lazarus) and then Tørd and the trumpeter would play something beautiful and minimal that turned into a hymn, and then he'd play the hymn and we were listening to one of the world's greatest jazz pianists playing a little church piano while the congregation sang along. I said all the 'amens', sang along, repeated the repeaty-bits.
The vicar hit a prayer bell and there was silence for three minutes, and I even said (God help me) a prayer. Well, I thought about the world and wished for specific things to get better, and thought about myself and how I wished to be better in specific ways, wishing these things would come about somehow. Then later the congregation were invited to bang their heels on the floor in a heartbeat and Tørd and the trumpeter played on top of it after a while. The trumpeter finished by blowing through his trumpet, unvoiced. It was beautiful.
It was very, very cool. Nice Christian stuff.
Still don't believe in any god or gods, not going to be joining any of my local congregations, but... respect to Jesus and His followers for that experience which had an effect on me. Nice.
Comments
Put that in a group setting and you have naturally powerful experiences. You are bound to, because day-to-day life largely strips us of our humanity.
Last time I was in the US -- San Fran -- a few weeks ago I also went to church. Freedom Baptist Gospel I believe.
It was a gospel church, and a very special place. Lots of hugging and cheering and laughing and singing and I had a fantastic time, surrounded by maybe a thousand wonderful people. There was nothing in the messages that I had anything but total agreement with. I was uplifted.
The church leader talked about how it was a place that anyone could come to, and anyone was welcome to share in spirituality and love -- even people of any religion and of any sexuality. I kept wondering what some churches would have made of the place ...
If churches were all like that (and mosques too) then we'd all be laughing.
As segovius said, when I rail at SOME Christians, I'm not railing at this or Christianity.
Which I always thought was funny because I was *always* entertained.
My guess is that the average Norwegian church is quite a bit more liberal (theologically and otherwise) than the average American church. But there are definitely liberal churches in the US too. It's just that there are also lots and lots of, shall we say, not-so-liberal churches.
Besides that, I didn't know Norwegians went to church. I'm surprised that there were even 50 there.
Hassan - were you raised Muslim?
Until yesterday their prime was from a party called "Christian Peoples Party"...
Originally posted by BRussell
Hmm, I don't believe it. Here's a table of church attendance from developed countries. US = 44%, Norway = 5%.
Three things:
There is NO WAY Norway and Denmark are equal on that scale. I simply think they dublicated the result for Denmark.
Church attendance is not necessarily the same as believing
44% for US? Thats extreme. Is that a plausible picture of reality?
I've not been to a church (sans wedding/funeral) for decades. You've given me the impetus to check out a non-denom I've been curious about. Going this weekend with either the SO or a lover.
Originally posted by Anders
Norway is as religious as US. Probably more so.
Until yesterday their prime was from a party called "Christian Peoples Party"...
Not really.
As we have a state church in Norway, mainstream christianity is partially very liberal. And partially not.
The christian party have about 6% of the popular vote, and pretends to be more liberal than it really is.
But we have a lot of deeply devoted (and extreme) christian people in the west and south who attend other christian communities and churches than the lutheran state church.
There is even quite a few christians in the socialist left-wing party. They tend to argue that Jesus was the first socialist.
Originally posted by ShawnJ
I thought it was interesting how a Baptist service made me nostalgic for Catholic ritual.
Split the difference and go to a Methodist church. You get to say the creeds and stuff, but there's no aerobics.
Originally posted by Anders
Three things:
There is NO WAY Norway and Denmark are equal on that scale. I simply think they dublicated the result for Denmark.
Eh, Denmark, Norway, Norway, Denmark.
Church attendance is not necessarily the same as believing
OK, but ask Americans how many "believe" and you'll more than double that 44%. But I was talking about church attendance anyway.
44% for US? Thats extreme. Is that a plausible picture of reality?
Apparently church attendance is well-known to be extremely inaccurate - probably only 20% go to church regularly.
Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
...for that experience which had an effect on me...
That's what it's all about. Glad you had a proper experience instead of what most people think Church is from TV.
Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
...I said all the 'amens', sang along, repeated the repeaty-bits...
Just don't get too caught up in this -
Matthew 6:7, "But when you pray, use not 'vain' repetitions, as the heathen do; for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking."
Any denomination that actively suppresses the power of music because joy is unbecoming to Sinful Wretches Such As Ourselves really should be shuttered up and made illegal.
I think Eddy Izzard has a great bit about Episcopalian church music:
(Grim clenched monotone) "Oh God, we thank you for our hairdos".....
Originally posted by addabox
Music is how they get you. Any denomination that isn't making liberal use of the full on break your heart and lift up your soul power of music just isn't paying attention.
Any denomination that actively suppresses the power of music because joy is unbecoming to Sinful Wretches Such As Ourselves really should be shuttered up and made illegal.
I think Eddy Izzard has a great bit about Episcopalian church music:
(Grim clenched monotone) "Oh God, we thank you for our hairdos".....
You mean the Psychotic Bastard Religion.