There's no evidence that Apple bailed from the chip purchase contract. I don't know why some people are confusing that with the joint venture to set up a chip production plant that was valued at (or Apple's half would have been) $3.8 billion. That is what they backed away from.
Is someone has info about Apple leaving the contract for chips, please show it. I haven't seen that anywhere.
hmm... interesting. so what is their existing chip contract for 2gb modules? is it something that lasts 3months? 6 months? (edit: i suppose things do indicate that this initial chip supply contract will not be renewed when the initial contract is satisfied)
hmmm to be honest i guess i didn't even realise that apple was going into a $3.8 billion joint venture to make chips with samsung. that's actually the bigger news here, because of all the endless speculation of apple has $6-8billion or whatever in cash, oh whatever should it do with that money??*
*to which the usual response seems to be 'buy adobe'
hmm... interesting. so what is their existing chip contract for 2gb modules? is it something that lasts 3months? 6 months? (edit: i suppose things do indicate that this initial chip supply contract will not be renewed when the initial contract is satisfied)
hmmm to be honest i guess i didn't even realise that apple was going into a $3.8 billion joint venture to make chips with samsung. that's actually the bigger news here, because of all the endless speculation of apple has $6-8billion or whatever in cash, oh whatever should it do with that money??*
*to which the usual response seems to be 'buy adobe'
Uh, Sunil, that's what the article is about. It was really about furure chip production. It wasn't as clear as it should have been. Apple's chip contract is about current chip production.
These contracts normally cover number of chips, delivered at a certain schedual over a period of time, and are usually open ended so the contract can continue after the expiration date at some agreed upon price depending upon conditions.
(edit) okay hm.... this whole thing has tons of potential to just be blown totally out of proportion by various people, including me :embarass:
soon we'll be hearing that "apple drops samsung as chip supplier because south koreans hate america".
the main news here is that apple is considering to invest as much as $3.8 billion USD in flash memory manufacturing. nothing more, nothing less. they didn't "drop" any investment plan because there was no plan to start with. it was all initial negotiations, by the sound of it.
whether or not apple got spooked by investigations into samsung trade practices in usa and south korea is unconfirmed.
i appreciate and enjoy appleInsider and the mac news community but looks like this news will go round and round and one can only hope things will get clearer in time.
if you read the original article there's a lot of blanks that need to be filled. i guess that's journalism and what makes for a juicy article.
Samsung Electronics has blamed the Fair Trade Commission (FTC) for losing a deal with Apple for a joint flash-memory factory worth about 4 trillion won.
The two companies had planned to set up a NAND flash memory line in South Korea to supply Apple?s iPod MP3 players, but the U.S. firm pulled out of the project after they heard about the FTC?s possible investigation of Samsung, Kim Il-ung, marketing director of Samsung?s semiconductor business, reportedly said at the investors relations session on Friday.
After the talks failed, Apple is looking for a partnership with other semiconductor firms, Kim said.
On Oct. 7, Kang Chul-kyu, chairman of the FTC, told a CBS radio program that the FTC ``could take action?? against an alleged unfair deal between Samsung and Apple, if local MP3 players request the probe.
Samsung has been suspected of supplying 2-gigabyte and 4-gigabyte flash memory chips to Apple at half their market value. Domestic MP3 player makers have claimed they are being hurt by cheap iPod nano, Apple?s latest MP3 player, which uses NAND flash memory chips instead of hard disk drives.
Samsung, the world?s largest memory chip manufacturer, has denied the claims. ``We have profited about 30 percent on memory sales, and such a high profit rate would be impossible if we were selling chips at half price,?? Chu Woo-sik said during a conference call with institutional investors on Friday.
``There are many give-and-take deals between Samsung and Apple, so if you consider all those factors then you will come to know that we are not giving an advantage to Apple,?? he added.
A flash-memory production line usually costs around 3 trillion to 4 trillion won to build. With a 34 trillion-won budget, Samsung recently started to set up a new semiconductor complex to be completed in 2012 in Hwasung, Kyonggi Province. It may have included the new Samsung-Apple factory.
``It is true that Samsung and Apple were conducting joint research on the project, but we found that it is commercially not feasible,?? Samsung?s spokesman Hong Kyung-sun said.
Apple is estimated to have sold more than 1 million Nanos already since September, even though the company has been unable to meet the demand.
Samsung is supplying most of the flash chips used in the iPod nano, while its South Korean rival Hynix also reportedly has a small portion of the memory supply.
Hynix declined to confirm the reports, but said they are continually trying to make contract with Apple for the NAND Flash memories.
The NAND flash memory chip stores data on a semiconductor, and it is mostly used in the form of USB flash drives to ferry data from one PC to another, or as memory cards that record thousands of photos in digital cameras or songs in portable music players.
Apple really should allow a level playing field - this is exactly the kind of thing we expect from Microsoft. Apple want open formats when they're behind but when they're in the leads they close all communications and do what's best for them - I'm not impressed!
Too true. I remember when Apple bought Emagic and prompty dropped support for Logic on windows. This cat's got claws!
It's been a while since I last checked, but Intel made flash for quite a long time too. Someone mentioned an AMD spin-off, which I didn't know was spun off. Maybe it shows my ignorance that maybe they didn't make the NAND type, I didn't check that.
.... Someone mentioned an AMD spin-off, which I didn't know was spun off. Maybe it shows my ignorance that maybe they didn't make the NAND type, I didn't check that.
yeah you're right spansion doesn't make NAND... anyway looks like it was spun out of AMD in 2003 with AMD holding majority and Fujitsu holding remaining interest.
That's too bad, because I think it is a great idea that Apple get more involved in the basic components that go into their products.
That way they are not at the mercy of fickle suppliers who can't or won't provide enough of a component in a reasonable time, or continue to develop that component to keep up with the pace of innovation (veteran Mac heads know where I'm going with this.)
Had Apple had an big investment in Motorola, they could have had processors that were good enough to prevent them from having to switch to IBM and now to Intel. The necessity to switch from supplier to supplier was created, in part, by the lack of Apple's investment in Motorola, and subsequently, IBM.
Those criticizing Apple remind me of the guy from Ford who complained about Honda and Toyota hogging up the components needed for gas-electric hybrids. The Japanese companies took huge risks by introducing these cars to the market and now Ford wants to get in on the action now that they have stood idly by and watched Toyota's and Honda's success. Don't look to me for pity, Ford, you were hyping gas-guzzling SUV's and pickups and profiting handsomely off of America's energy gluttony (which you pushed). Now that our wasteful ways have come back to bite us in the ass, you need to suffer -- even if it means going out of business.
.... Someone mentioned an AMD spin-off, which I didn't know was spun off. Maybe it shows my ignorance that maybe they didn't make the NAND type, I didn't check that.
yeah you're right spansion doesn't make NAND... anyway looks like it was spun out of AMD in 2003 with AMD holding majority and Fujitsu holding remaining interest.
Well, the rumor is that they are talking to a flash manufacturer in the good old USA about a production deal. Hmm, I wonder who that could be? Though it could still be Micron.
Apple might require 100 million flash chips a year in the coming years, so it only makes sense that they would do this.
Several years ago Apple invested $300 million in LG electronics where they get most of their LCD's from.
Well, the rumor is that they are talking to a flash manufacturer in the good old USA about a production deal. Hmm, I wonder who that could be? Though it could still be Micron.
Apple might require 100 million flash chips a year in the coming years, so it only makes sense that they would do this.
Several years ago Apple invested $300 million in LG electronics where they get most of their LCD's from.
Right, it could still be them, though the bets are on Intel, of course.
Intel does predominantly NOR flash. Not that they couldn't increase NAND flash memory production but it isn't their major area. If anyone stands to benefit it's Toshiba.
Intel does predominantly NOR flash. Not that they couldn't increase NAND flash memory production but it isn't their major area. If anyone stands to benefit it's Toshiba.
It's just that the word going around is that it's a USA company.
Otherwise I would agree with that as Apple does good business with them already.
I thought the article was implying the latter - I have no problem with economy of scale. It does worth noting, however, that free markets don't always work. Look at the sweat shop trade etc.
Sweatshops are not an example of free markets not working. If people are forced to work there, scratch "free". If not, their options are worse: generally crime, prostitution, starving, or harder, worse compensated labor elsewhere.
Comments
Originally posted by melgross
There's no evidence that Apple bailed from the chip purchase contract. I don't know why some people are confusing that with the joint venture to set up a chip production plant that was valued at (or Apple's half would have been) $3.8 billion. That is what they backed away from.
Is someone has info about Apple leaving the contract for chips, please show it. I haven't seen that anywhere.
hmm... interesting. so what is their existing chip contract for 2gb modules? is it something that lasts 3months? 6 months? (edit: i suppose things do indicate that this initial chip supply contract will not be renewed when the initial contract is satisfied)
hmmm to be honest i guess i didn't even realise that apple was going into a $3.8 billion joint venture to make chips with samsung. that's actually the bigger news here, because of all the endless speculation of apple has $6-8billion or whatever in cash, oh whatever should it do with that money??*
*to which the usual response seems to be 'buy adobe'
Originally posted by sunilraman
hmm... interesting. so what is their existing chip contract for 2gb modules? is it something that lasts 3months? 6 months? (edit: i suppose things do indicate that this initial chip supply contract will not be renewed when the initial contract is satisfied)
hmmm to be honest i guess i didn't even realise that apple was going into a $3.8 billion joint venture to make chips with samsung. that's actually the bigger news here, because of all the endless speculation of apple has $6-8billion or whatever in cash, oh whatever should it do with that money??*
*to which the usual response seems to be 'buy adobe'
Uh, Sunil, that's what the article is about. It was really about furure chip production. It wasn't as clear as it should have been. Apple's chip contract is about current chip production.
These contracts normally cover number of chips, delivered at a certain schedual over a period of time, and are usually open ended so the contract can continue after the expiration date at some agreed upon price depending upon conditions.
soon we'll be hearing that "apple drops samsung as chip supplier because south koreans hate america".
the main news here is that apple is considering to invest as much as $3.8 billion USD in flash memory manufacturing. nothing more, nothing less. they didn't "drop" any investment plan because there was no plan to start with. it was all initial negotiations, by the sound of it.
whether or not apple got spooked by investigations into samsung trade practices in usa and south korea is unconfirmed.
all this seems to have stemmed from
http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/2005...7213410160.htm
i appreciate and enjoy appleInsider and the mac news community but looks like this news will go round and round and one can only hope things will get clearer in time.
if you read the original article there's a lot of blanks that need to be filled. i guess that's journalism and what makes for a juicy article.
Samsung Blames FTC for Losing Apple Deal
By Cho Jin-seo
Staff Reporter
[email protected]\t
Samsung Electronics has blamed the Fair Trade Commission (FTC) for losing a deal with Apple for a joint flash-memory factory worth about 4 trillion won.
The two companies had planned to set up a NAND flash memory line in South Korea to supply Apple?s iPod MP3 players, but the U.S. firm pulled out of the project after they heard about the FTC?s possible investigation of Samsung, Kim Il-ung, marketing director of Samsung?s semiconductor business, reportedly said at the investors relations session on Friday.
After the talks failed, Apple is looking for a partnership with other semiconductor firms, Kim said.
On Oct. 7, Kang Chul-kyu, chairman of the FTC, told a CBS radio program that the FTC ``could take action?? against an alleged unfair deal between Samsung and Apple, if local MP3 players request the probe.
Samsung has been suspected of supplying 2-gigabyte and 4-gigabyte flash memory chips to Apple at half their market value. Domestic MP3 player makers have claimed they are being hurt by cheap iPod nano, Apple?s latest MP3 player, which uses NAND flash memory chips instead of hard disk drives.
Samsung, the world?s largest memory chip manufacturer, has denied the claims. ``We have profited about 30 percent on memory sales, and such a high profit rate would be impossible if we were selling chips at half price,?? Chu Woo-sik said during a conference call with institutional investors on Friday.
``There are many give-and-take deals between Samsung and Apple, so if you consider all those factors then you will come to know that we are not giving an advantage to Apple,?? he added.
A flash-memory production line usually costs around 3 trillion to 4 trillion won to build. With a 34 trillion-won budget, Samsung recently started to set up a new semiconductor complex to be completed in 2012 in Hwasung, Kyonggi Province. It may have included the new Samsung-Apple factory.
``It is true that Samsung and Apple were conducting joint research on the project, but we found that it is commercially not feasible,?? Samsung?s spokesman Hong Kyung-sun said.
Apple is estimated to have sold more than 1 million Nanos already since September, even though the company has been unable to meet the demand.
Samsung is supplying most of the flash chips used in the iPod nano, while its South Korean rival Hynix also reportedly has a small portion of the memory supply.
Hynix declined to confirm the reports, but said they are continually trying to make contract with Apple for the NAND Flash memories.
The NAND flash memory chip stores data on a semiconductor, and it is mostly used in the form of USB flash drives to ferry data from one PC to another, or as memory cards that record thousands of photos in digital cameras or songs in portable music players.
http://www.micron.com/products/nand/massstorage/
Looks as if they provide the products.
Originally posted by MacCrazy
Apple really should allow a level playing field - this is exactly the kind of thing we expect from Microsoft. Apple want open formats when they're behind but when they're in the leads they close all communications and do what's best for them - I'm not impressed!
Too true. I remember when Apple bought Emagic and prompty dropped support for Logic on windows. This cat's got claws!
Originally posted by mdriftmeyer
Could Apple then be in talks with say, Micron?
http://www.micron.com/products/nand/massstorage/
Looks as if they provide the products.
It's been a while since I last checked, but Intel made flash for quite a long time too. Someone mentioned an AMD spin-off, which I didn't know was spun off. Maybe it shows my ignorance that maybe they didn't make the NAND type, I didn't check that.
.... Someone mentioned an AMD spin-off, which I didn't know was spun off. Maybe it shows my ignorance that maybe they didn't make the NAND type, I didn't check that.
http://www.spansion.com/about/index.html
yeah you're right spansion doesn't make NAND... anyway looks like it was spun out of AMD in 2003 with AMD holding majority and Fujitsu holding remaining interest.
That way they are not at the mercy of fickle suppliers who can't or won't provide enough of a component in a reasonable time, or continue to develop that component to keep up with the pace of innovation (veteran Mac heads know where I'm going with this.)
Had Apple had an big investment in Motorola, they could have had processors that were good enough to prevent them from having to switch to IBM and now to Intel. The necessity to switch from supplier to supplier was created, in part, by the lack of Apple's investment in Motorola, and subsequently, IBM.
Those criticizing Apple remind me of the guy from Ford who complained about Honda and Toyota hogging up the components needed for gas-electric hybrids. The Japanese companies took huge risks by introducing these cars to the market and now Ford wants to get in on the action now that they have stood idly by and watched Toyota's and Honda's success. Don't look to me for pity, Ford, you were hyping gas-guzzling SUV's and pickups and profiting handsomely off of America's energy gluttony (which you pushed). Now that our wasteful ways have come back to bite us in the ass, you need to suffer -- even if it means going out of business.
Originally posted by sunilraman
Originally posted by JeffDM
.... Someone mentioned an AMD spin-off, which I didn't know was spun off. Maybe it shows my ignorance that maybe they didn't make the NAND type, I didn't check that.
http://www.spansion.com/about/index.html
yeah you're right spansion doesn't make NAND... anyway looks like it was spun out of AMD in 2003 with AMD holding majority and Fujitsu holding remaining interest.
Well, the rumor is that they are talking to a flash manufacturer in the good old USA about a production deal. Hmm, I wonder who that could be? Though it could still be Micron.
Apple might require 100 million flash chips a year in the coming years, so it only makes sense that they would do this.
Several years ago Apple invested $300 million in LG electronics where they get most of their LCD's from.
Originally posted by melgross
Well, the rumor is that they are talking to a flash manufacturer in the good old USA about a production deal. Hmm, I wonder who that could be? Though it could still be Micron.
Apple might require 100 million flash chips a year in the coming years, so it only makes sense that they would do this.
Several years ago Apple invested $300 million in LG electronics where they get most of their LCD's from.
That's why I mentioned Micron: Boise, ID.
Originally posted by mdriftmeyer
That's why I mentioned Micron: Boise, ID.
Right, it could still be them, though the bets are on Intel, of course.
Originally posted by melgross
Right, it could still be them, though the bets are on Intel, of course.
Intel does predominantly NOR flash. Not that they couldn't increase NAND flash memory production but it isn't their major area. If anyone stands to benefit it's Toshiba.
Originally posted by Telomar
Intel does predominantly NOR flash. Not that they couldn't increase NAND flash memory production but it isn't their major area. If anyone stands to benefit it's Toshiba.
It's just that the word going around is that it's a USA company.
Otherwise I would agree with that as Apple does good business with them already.
Originally posted by MacCrazy
I thought the article was implying the latter - I have no problem with economy of scale. It does worth noting, however, that free markets don't always work. Look at the sweat shop trade etc.
Sweatshops are not an example of free markets not working. If people are forced to work there, scratch "free". If not, their options are worse: generally crime, prostitution, starving, or harder, worse compensated labor elsewhere.