Brighter is not always good. I have an Apple 23", and I have to dim the brightness all the time. Who want's a floodlight in his face ? Gives me a headache !
And about the image: I never saw the Dell, but the 23" is of an amazing image quality.
Then it has improved, because a year or two ago it was the crappiest flatscreen that I have ever seen, consistantly across every one I saw.
Then it has improved, because a year or two ago it was the crappiest flatscreen that I have ever seen, consistantly across every one I saw.
Both units I have seen had glaring, disturbing hue distortion when you went as little as 20 degrees off axis. This is probably the "pink hue" problem everyone is talking about, except I didn't see it quite as pink. I won't say I would never buy one, but it would have to be way cheaper to be worth it. Like, by 50%.
Brighter is not always good. I have an Apple 23", and I have to dim the brightness all the time. Who want's a floodlight in his face ? Gives me a headache !
If other attributes stay the same, brighter *is* always good because it gives you more room for adjustment when conditions are brighter.
If you have to dim all the time, then surely you also turn the brightness equally often. Otherwise you'd have run out of adjustment. This is hardly the fault of the monitor, other than that they could auto-adjust themselves to lighting conditions by use of light sensors.
My 2405fpw is permanently at 40/100 brightness, and at that setting makes the iBook screen at max brightness look very gray and dim. I turn up light sources around the room and turn on new ones if the screen starts to look too bright. More friendly to eyes that way.
I frankly am not crazy about supporting dell, even if people do like its monitor. Perhaps I should be less unbending.
I understand why you want to support Apple - after all that's why we all inhabit this forum - but you seem to have something particular against Dell while you have no such feelings about Sony, NEC or Samsung. Can I ask you why that is? After all, Dell's an American company, I don't see them hurting anybody while doing business, and they have innovated a lot in fields of production and distribution, making computers and computer supplies a commodity.
Personally I would probably not buy their computers, because I hear they don't use very good cases, power supplies and motherboards, and I'm more inclined to buy AMD processors at this time while Dell is an Intel only shop. But displays, no problem.
I understand why you want to support Apple - after all that's why we all inhabit this forum - but you seem to have something particular against Dell while you have no such feelings about Sony, NEC or Samsung. Can I ask you why that is? After all, Dell's an American company, I don't see them hurting anybody while doing business, and they have innovated a lot in fields of production and distribution, making computers and computer supplies a commodity.
Personally I would probably not buy their computers, because I hear they don't use very good cases, power supplies and motherboards, and I'm more inclined to buy AMD processors at this time while Dell is an Intel only shop. But displays, no problem.
It is a really bad idea to love a company so much that you will buy products from them even if there are better alternatives available.
Look what it did to Harley Davidson - their customers would buy the crappiest stuff, and as a result their quality dropped to the point where it nearly killed the company.
GM and Chrysler are being supported by somebody making bad buying decisions - I just wish those people would stop so that the companies can die and be replaced by good american auto makers that spring up from the ashes.
i went with the dell 2005fpw (20.1" widescreen)...for $354 shipped on a deal. i've seen a lot of dell deals at $394 for that same monitor lately. Since it has the same philips monitor that Apple uses (even has the 4 port USB hub) I see no reason to buy the Apple aluminum case for double the price when you could have a dual display instead.
GM and Chrysler are being supported by somebody making bad buying decisions
This is NOT a good thing to get into.
Back on the topic of monitors, I have a Dell 20" display at work. I forget the model, but it's pretty nice. The only problem I can think of is that it's too bright.
If you have the ADC discount, the Apple 20" display is a bargain. I think it falls in around the $650 range, which makes it very price competitive with anything out there. Otherwise, it's a tad pricey.
If you have the ADC discount, the Apple 20" display is a bargain. I think it falls in around the $650 range, which makes it very price competitive with anything out there. Otherwise, it's a tad pricey.
I kind of fail to see how $650 vs. ~$400 shipped is price competitive...
It is a really bad idea to love a company so much that you will buy products from them even if there are better alternatives available.
Look what it did to Harley Davidson - their customers would buy the crappiest stuff, and as a result their quality dropped to the point where it nearly killed the company.
GM and Chrysler are being supported by somebody making bad buying decisions - I just wish those people would stop so that the companies can die and be replaced by good american auto makers that spring up from the ashes.
I am not sure who you are speaking to here. The goods I buy, I like to see them be well made, and of course I like a good price. What is the point of buying poorly made things? I do not go out with this in mind. When I perceive Apple as making goods that are what I am looking for, then I buy from them. They have been properly critiqued by their fans, like back when they held back on AGP. Apple said that they saved money then, and yet got 90% of the AGP performance. Perhaps they had to financially then. But Apple came around to using the technologies that are standard, or else led in adopting technology that becomes standard.
Because it's a better monitor, it's really pretty, and it has a lot of hub stuff on the back. That's worth $250 for me.
Monitor is built by the same company so it's not better quality wise. Screen is the exact same quality and picture. Brilliant and beautiful.
Dull 2005fpw
4 port USB 2.0 hub
DVI-D Connector
VGA Connector
S-Video
Composite In
Picture in Picture capable
On screen controls
Apple Cinema Display
Sweet aluminum case
DVI Connector
2 port USB Hub
2 Port Firewire hub
No onscreen controls
I'd say the Dull has the cinema display beat in every category including price except for firewire and cool case. That is not worth $250 to me. I love being able to connect two computers to the same monitor and just toggle the button . Can't do that on the cinema unless you have a KVM (add $150 for DVI KVM, since that is all the cinema can use)
to each their own!! Dual Dulls (if you manage the $354 shipped deal i got) or Single Cinema...hmmm, same price...more ports, better expansion, uglier.
Monitor is built by the same company so it's not better quality wise. Screen is the exact same quality and picture. Brilliant and beautiful.
Dull 2005fpw
4 port USB 2.0 hub
DVI-D Connector
VGA Connector
S-Video
Composite In
Picture in Picture capable
On screen controls
Apple Cinema Display
Sweet aluminum case
DVI Connector
2 port USB Hub
2 Port Firewire hub
No onscreen controls
I'd say the Dull has the cinema display beat in every category including price except for firewire and cool case. That is not worth $250 to me. I love being able to connect two computers to the same monitor and just toggle the button . Can't do that on the cinema unless you have a KVM (add $150 for DVI KVM, since that is all the cinema can use)
to each their own!! Dual Dulls (if you manage the $354 shipped deal i got) or Single Cinema...hmmm, same price...more ports, better expansion, uglier.
A good informative comparison. Dull, you are funny. Well, it is like RichardH said on another thread on the same subject of Apple and dell monitors, the Apple is calibrated, and has accuracy of colour, so that is one place where it has the duller dell down for the count, and it has form as well as function. "Steve Jobs understands", as Richard put it. And we draw out the green and give it to them... sometimes, when it is in line with our objectives.
Well, I look for good prices too. But an Apple monitor is going to make its way into my home again, anyway. In the business, I may go with an NEC.
i went with the dell 2005fpw (20.1" widescreen)...for $354 shipped on a deal. i've seen a lot of dell deals at $394 for that same monitor lately. Since it has the same philips monitor that Apple uses (even has the 4 port USB hub) I see no reason to buy the Apple aluminum case for double the price when you could have a dual display instead.
How did you manage to get that kind of deal on the 2005fpw. Did you use coupons at the Online Dell Store?
I'm looking to get that monitor for when my Duel Core G5 arrives I would like more info on how to get that deal.
A good informative comparison. Dull, you are funny. Well, it is like RichardH said on another thread on the same subject of Apple and dell monitors, the Apple is calibrated, and has accuracy of colour, so that is one place where it has the duller dell down for the count, and it has form as well as function.
In the anandtech review Londor linked above, it was the Apple screen that had colors off and needed calibrating. After calibration it had a smidgen better color, but lost equally little on contrast. Largely they were the same, and how could they not be, having the same panel. Also in other regards the review is pretty thorough and interesting.
In the anandtech review Londor linked above, it was the Apple screen that had colors off and needed calibrating. After calibration it had a smidgen better color, but lost equally little on contrast. Largely they were the same, and how could they not be, having the same panel. Also in other regards the review is pretty thorough and interesting.
Actually, I was referring to a conversation that was had on AppleInsider starting on September 12, in which a Richard pointed out that the dell had a different backlight, which did not allow for accuracy in black, and mention was made how that the dell would not come to colour match upon repeated attempts. Same panel from Phillips. Well, perhaps dell has come to change this. Are there many graphics artists who like to use dells?
Comments
Originally posted by BigBlue
Brighter is not always good. I have an Apple 23", and I have to dim the brightness all the time. Who want's a floodlight in his face ? Gives me a headache !
And about the image: I never saw the Dell, but the 23" is of an amazing image quality.
Then it has improved, because a year or two ago it was the crappiest flatscreen that I have ever seen, consistantly across every one I saw.
Originally posted by e1618978
Then it has improved, because a year or two ago it was the crappiest flatscreen that I have ever seen, consistantly across every one I saw.
Both units I have seen had glaring, disturbing hue distortion when you went as little as 20 degrees off axis. This is probably the "pink hue" problem everyone is talking about, except I didn't see it quite as pink. I won't say I would never buy one, but it would have to be way cheaper to be worth it. Like, by 50%.
Originally posted by BigBlue
Brighter is not always good. I have an Apple 23", and I have to dim the brightness all the time. Who want's a floodlight in his face ? Gives me a headache !
If other attributes stay the same, brighter *is* always good because it gives you more room for adjustment when conditions are brighter.
If you have to dim all the time, then surely you also turn the brightness equally often. Otherwise you'd have run out of adjustment. This is hardly the fault of the monitor, other than that they could auto-adjust themselves to lighting conditions by use of light sensors.
My 2405fpw is permanently at 40/100 brightness, and at that setting makes the iBook screen at max brightness look very gray and dim. I turn up light sources around the room and turn on new ones if the screen starts to look too bright. More friendly to eyes that way.
Originally posted by NordicMan
I frankly am not crazy about supporting dell, even if people do like its monitor. Perhaps I should be less unbending.
I understand why you want to support Apple - after all that's why we all inhabit this forum - but you seem to have something particular against Dell while you have no such feelings about Sony, NEC or Samsung. Can I ask you why that is? After all, Dell's an American company, I don't see them hurting anybody while doing business, and they have innovated a lot in fields of production and distribution, making computers and computer supplies a commodity.
Personally I would probably not buy their computers, because I hear they don't use very good cases, power supplies and motherboards, and I'm more inclined to buy AMD processors at this time while Dell is an Intel only shop. But displays, no problem.
Originally posted by Gon
I understand why you want to support Apple - after all that's why we all inhabit this forum - but you seem to have something particular against Dell while you have no such feelings about Sony, NEC or Samsung. Can I ask you why that is? After all, Dell's an American company, I don't see them hurting anybody while doing business, and they have innovated a lot in fields of production and distribution, making computers and computer supplies a commodity.
Personally I would probably not buy their computers, because I hear they don't use very good cases, power supplies and motherboards, and I'm more inclined to buy AMD processors at this time while Dell is an Intel only shop. But displays, no problem.
It is a really bad idea to love a company so much that you will buy products from them even if there are better alternatives available.
Look what it did to Harley Davidson - their customers would buy the crappiest stuff, and as a result their quality dropped to the point where it nearly killed the company.
GM and Chrysler are being supported by somebody making bad buying decisions - I just wish those people would stop so that the companies can die and be replaced by good american auto makers that spring up from the ashes.
Originally posted by e1618978
GM and Chrysler are being supported by somebody making bad buying decisions
This is NOT a good thing to get into.
Back on the topic of monitors, I have a Dell 20" display at work. I forget the model, but it's pretty nice. The only problem I can think of is that it's too bright.
If you have the ADC discount, the Apple 20" display is a bargain. I think it falls in around the $650 range, which makes it very price competitive with anything out there. Otherwise, it's a tad pricey.
Originally posted by Splinemodel
If you have the ADC discount, the Apple 20" display is a bargain. I think it falls in around the $650 range, which makes it very price competitive with anything out there. Otherwise, it's a tad pricey.
I kind of fail to see how $650 vs. ~$400 shipped is price competitive...
Originally posted by e1618978
It is a really bad idea to love a company so much that you will buy products from them even if there are better alternatives available.
Look what it did to Harley Davidson - their customers would buy the crappiest stuff, and as a result their quality dropped to the point where it nearly killed the company.
GM and Chrysler are being supported by somebody making bad buying decisions - I just wish those people would stop so that the companies can die and be replaced by good american auto makers that spring up from the ashes.
I am not sure who you are speaking to here. The goods I buy, I like to see them be well made, and of course I like a good price. What is the point of buying poorly made things? I do not go out with this in mind. When I perceive Apple as making goods that are what I am looking for, then I buy from them. They have been properly critiqued by their fans, like back when they held back on AGP. Apple said that they saved money then, and yet got 90% of the AGP performance. Perhaps they had to financially then. But Apple came around to using the technologies that are standard, or else led in adopting technology that becomes standard.
Originally posted by sandau
I kind of fail to see how $650 vs. ~$400 shipped is price competitive...
Because it's a better monitor, it's really pretty, and it has a lot of hub stuff on the back. That's worth $250 for me.
Originally posted by Splinemodel
Because it's a better monitor, it's really pretty, and it has a lot of hub stuff on the back. That's worth $250 for me.
Monitor is built by the same company so it's not better quality wise. Screen is the exact same quality and picture. Brilliant and beautiful.
Dull 2005fpw
4 port USB 2.0 hub
DVI-D Connector
VGA Connector
S-Video
Composite In
Picture in Picture capable
On screen controls
Apple Cinema Display
Sweet aluminum case
DVI Connector
2 port USB Hub
2 Port Firewire hub
No onscreen controls
I'd say the Dull has the cinema display beat in every category including price except for firewire and cool case. That is not worth $250 to me. I love being able to connect two computers to the same monitor and just toggle the button . Can't do that on the cinema unless you have a KVM (add $150 for DVI KVM, since that is all the cinema can use)
to each their own!! Dual Dulls (if you manage the $354 shipped deal i got) or Single Cinema...hmmm, same price...more ports, better expansion, uglier.
Originally posted by sandau
Monitor is built by the same company so it's not better quality wise. Screen is the exact same quality and picture. Brilliant and beautiful.
Dull 2005fpw
4 port USB 2.0 hub
DVI-D Connector
VGA Connector
S-Video
Composite In
Picture in Picture capable
On screen controls
Apple Cinema Display
Sweet aluminum case
DVI Connector
2 port USB Hub
2 Port Firewire hub
No onscreen controls
I'd say the Dull has the cinema display beat in every category including price except for firewire and cool case. That is not worth $250 to me. I love being able to connect two computers to the same monitor and just toggle the button . Can't do that on the cinema unless you have a KVM (add $150 for DVI KVM, since that is all the cinema can use)
to each their own!! Dual Dulls (if you manage the $354 shipped deal i got) or Single Cinema...hmmm, same price...more ports, better expansion, uglier.
A good informative comparison. Dull, you are funny. Well, it is like RichardH said on another thread on the same subject of Apple and dell monitors, the Apple is calibrated, and has accuracy of colour, so that is one place where it has the duller dell down for the count, and it has form as well as function. "Steve Jobs understands", as Richard put it. And we draw out the green and give it to them... sometimes, when it is in line with our objectives.
Well, I look for good prices too. But an Apple monitor is going to make its way into my home again, anyway. In the business, I may go with an NEC.
i went with the dell 2005fpw (20.1" widescreen)...for $354 shipped on a deal. i've seen a lot of dell deals at $394 for that same monitor lately. Since it has the same philips monitor that Apple uses (even has the 4 port USB hub) I see no reason to buy the Apple aluminum case for double the price when you could have a dual display instead.
How did you manage to get that kind of deal on the 2005fpw. Did you use coupons at the Online Dell Store?
I'm looking to get that monitor for when my Duel Core G5 arrives I would like more info on how to get that deal.
Originally posted by NordicMan
A good informative comparison. Dull, you are funny. Well, it is like RichardH said on another thread on the same subject of Apple and dell monitors, the Apple is calibrated, and has accuracy of colour, so that is one place where it has the duller dell down for the count, and it has form as well as function.
In the anandtech review Londor linked above, it was the Apple screen that had colors off and needed calibrating. After calibration it had a smidgen better color, but lost equally little on contrast. Largely they were the same, and how could they not be, having the same panel. Also in other regards the review is pretty thorough and interesting.
The real upsides are still:
Apple: looks, usability/design (one cord), Firewire hub
Dell: price, SVHS, VGA, Composite, pivot, sideways adjustment, height adjustment
Originally posted by krisneph
How did you manage to get that kind of deal on the 2005fpw. Did you use coupons at the Online Dell Store?
I'm looking to get that monitor for when my Duel Core G5 arrives I would like more info on how to get that deal.
watch slickdeals.net for the deal to come up. lately its been at $394 which is still smoking. At least once every 2 weeks it'll pop up.
Originally posted by Gon
In the anandtech review Londor linked above, it was the Apple screen that had colors off and needed calibrating. After calibration it had a smidgen better color, but lost equally little on contrast. Largely they were the same, and how could they not be, having the same panel. Also in other regards the review is pretty thorough and interesting.
The real upsides are still:
Apple: looks, usability/design (one cord), Firewire hub
Dell: price, SVHS, VGA, Composite, pivot, sideways adjustment, height adjustment
Actually, I was referring to a conversation that was had on AppleInsider starting on September 12, in which a Richard pointed out that the dell had a different backlight, which did not allow for accuracy in black, and mention was made how that the dell would not come to colour match upon repeated attempts. Same panel from Phillips. Well, perhaps dell has come to change this. Are there many graphics artists who like to use dells?