Yet Another (new) PM G5 graphic card/pci-Ex thread

Posted:
in Current Mac Hardware edited January 2014
A lot of people are pointing out various interesting points about Apple's new computer.



I AM CONTINUOUSLY EDITING THIS POST AS MORE INFORMATION BECOMES AVAILABLE TO ME







I have a couple of questions myself, but I'll answer the few that I already know the answer to:



1. This computer will NOT support SLI, PERIOD. SLI has to have a specific type of motherboard, which Apple has not even mentioned.



2. The 7800 GT is now available from http://store.apple.com as a CTO option, but not yet as a separate product. The price is $350 above the 6600 option.



3. PCI-Express is NOT compatible with regular PCI cards.



4. The ONLY card Apple offers/will offer that has two dual link DVI (30" disp. drivers) is the Quadro FX 4500 (~$1600 upgrade from 6600). The other cards only have ONE dual link DVI port, and one regular port. This means that NO, you will not be able to run 8 30" displays at full resolution (at a sub-insane resolution you can run the 30" on a single link DVI port). that is, until a 3rd party makes a card that will do so.



5. The new G5 can use ECC OR non ECC (regular, cheap, standard) RAM. ECC RAM is really, really cool. It reduces calculation foul ups. However, it slows performance across the board (IIRC). So if you don't need it (if you're not running a server/number cruncher), spend the money on more Non-ECC RAM.



6. The 7800 will run in the 8x or 4x slot, possibly at a reduced speed (?).



7. The 6600 will run in the 8x or 4x slot at full speed.



8. When running 2 (two) monitors on the same video card, the GPU's RAM is cut in halves for each monitor. However, processing allocation is by demand (higher res, core graphics, or 3d gaming demands more than running textedit). Therefore it might behoove you to run two GPUs in your G5 if you need a big honking system right now and can't afford the Quattro.



9. There are NOW drivers available for the RocketRaid 2320 PCIe 8 channel SATA controller



10. The old Airport Extreme cards do NOT work in the new G5's



OK so now for my questions:



1. Does having more cards in the slots slow down performance of the high-bandwidth cards, as it does in some PC mobos?



2. What is the minimal PCI Express slot speed to run the 7800 at full speed?
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 36
    Quote:

    Originally posted by slughead

    A lot of people are pointing out various interesting points about Apple's new computer.







    I have a couple of questions myself, but I'll answer the few that I already know the answer to:



    1. This computer will NOT support SLI, PERIOD. SLI has to have a specific type of motherboard, which Apple has not even mentioned.



    2. the 7800GT is not yet available from the looks of things, but Apple's probably going to get that fixed soon.



    3. PCI-Express is compatible with regular PCI cards, so those of us with external RAID controllers (*cough* due to Apple's lack of drive bays *cough*) can rest easy.



    4. The ONLY card Apple offers/will offer that has two dual link DVI (30" disp. drivers) is the Quattro FX 4500 (~$1600 upgrade from 6600). The other cards only have ONE dual link DVI port, and one regular port. This means that NO, you will not be able to run 8 30" displays (at full resolution.. at a sub-insane resolution you can run the 30" on a single link DVI port).. that is, until a 3rd party makes a card that will do so.





    5. ECC RAM is really, really cool. It reduces calculation foul ups. However, it slows performance across the board (IIRC). So if you don't need it, Spend the money on more Non-ECC RAM.



    OK so now for my questions:

    1. Can the 7800GT be put into an 8X port or does it require 16? The bottom line being: can I have dual 7800GT's?



    2. What about the 6600? Will that work in a 4x slot?



    3. Does having more cards in the slots slow down performance of the high-bandwidth cards, as it does in some PC mobos?



    4. If you can answer the above 3... who the hell are you and where did you go to astrology school?




    1. Yes because you can get a Quadro running in it



    2. Yes Apple says you can have 4x 6600 in a G5



    3. If I remember right the way PCIe is designed it should not affect the bandwidth of the other cards but I could be wrong.



    2.5 Answered.



    Now for my question will the 7800Gt/GTX PC cards work in the mac, Nivida's own website says they are but are they really?
  • Reply 2 of 36
    I want to know the price of the 7800 GT before I leap...



    Lemon Bon Bon
  • Reply 3 of 36
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,268member
    1. Correct. No SLI allowed

    2. I'd bet it was a driver/availability issue. We still have endian issues with PPC right?

    3. Incorrecto. PCI-Express requires new cards. The drivers don't have to change much but it's still a serial interface were PCI is parallel.

    4. Max 30" is 4 Max 20/23" is 8 with todays cards

    5. Really only servers or rendering stations need apply.





    Yes a 7800 and 6600 should work in a x8 and 4x slot.



    Dunno about the effects of adding a bunch of cards.
  • Reply 4 of 36
    philbyphilby Posts: 124member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by jherrling

    Now for my question will the 7800Gt/GTX PC cards work in the mac, Nivida's own website says they are but are they really?



    Do you happen to have a link to where is says that on nvidia.com? Thanks!
  • Reply 5 of 36
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by hmurchison

    1. Correct. No SLI allowed





    I think it will work like it's crippled. I think the SLI bridge will work, but it will perform as 2 - 8x speed slots. I was browsing Nvidia last night, and All I came up with was you need 2 matching cards, 2x PCI-E slots, and the SLI bridge. Unless I missed something somewhere I think it can be done, but I think the benefits don't measure up that great compared to 1 - 16x slot.
  • Reply 6 of 36
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    Unless, the slots have to have matching speeds to begin with, but then you could still go with the 2x 4x slots if you wanted.



    The only different about the intel boards was they were splittng 1 - 16x PCI-E expressway into 2 - 8x PCI-E slots to create their SLI boards. So the slots were matching from the beginning as were the cards, but I couldn't find any info that said anything about not working. But I'm not sure if there is an SLI driver that you need for this either. I was only looking for hardware incompatability.
  • Reply 7 of 36
    slugheadslughead Posts: 1,169member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by onlooker

    I think it will work like it's crippled.



    One of my x86-using friends has been running SLI for a while now. He was fairly adamant that dual 16x slots was necessary.



    He also says SLI is definitely mobo dependant--he had to configure SLI-specific stuff in the bios.



    Not only that but there are some other quirks involving drivers. If Apple does not supply the drivers, SLI wont work.



    Post whatever additional info you can, I'll put it in the top post as soon as I read it.
  • Reply 8 of 36
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by slughead

    One of my x86-using friends has been running SLI for a while now. He was fairly adamant that dual 16x slots was necessary.



    He also says SLI is definitely mobo dependant--he had to configure SLI-specific stuff in the bios.



    Not only that but there are some other quirks involving drivers. If Apple does not supply the drivers, SLI wont work.



    Post whatever additional info you can, I'll put it in the top post as soon as I read it.




    Not that I doubt you, but I hope he has an AMD board because there is no dual 16x slots on an intel board, and the AMD ones are few, and far between. There are only a couple of them, and they will cost you.



    EDIT:

    Look at how the Intel Boards have it written.



    Tomcat i7230A (S5160) [ NEW! ]

    ? Supports Intel® P4 with HT or Pentium D at 1.066GHz FSB

    ? Four DDR2-533/667 DIMMs for up to 8GB of unbuffered ECC memory

    ? Four 32-bit PCI and two PCIe x16 slots (one x8 one x4 signal)

    ? Two GbE LAN controllers (1000/100/10MB/sec.)

    ? Integrated video, SATA RAID, and IPMI option.



    Be it as it may. Motherboard dependant seems like it depends on weather, or not you have 1, or 2 PCI-E slots to accomidate the cards. But the bios thing I have read before, and it does need to be configured if it wasn't pre configured for SLI. AFAIK that is all it means.

    So I still think SLI is possible - crippled at 8x, but possible if the firmware were available. Until I read it isn't from somewhere reputable I am not going to claim it wouldn't be possble with this motherboard.
  • Reply 9 of 36
    slugheadslughead Posts: 1,169member
    I put that bit about the 7800 not coming out.. there was another thread in this forum about it.
  • Reply 10 of 36
    slugheadslughead Posts: 1,169member
    I got 2 reports claiming that the 7800 GT IS available and that the store people are just on crack.
  • Reply 11 of 36
    Quote:

    I got 2 reports claiming that the 7800 GT IS available and that the store people are just on crack.



    Crack. I knew there had to be a rational explanation...



    Lemon Bon Bon
  • Reply 12 of 36
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    Quote:

    2. What is the minimal PCI Express slot speed to run the 7800 at full speed.



    That would be the 16x slot wouldn't you think?
  • Reply 13 of 36
    slugheadslughead Posts: 1,169member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by onlooker

    That would be the 16x slot wouldn't you think?



    That's what I believe, yes. Maybe someone smarter knows for sure.
  • Reply 14 of 36
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    Well your not going to run it faster in a slower slot, and the only slots left are slower.
  • Reply 15 of 36
    slugheadslughead Posts: 1,169member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon

    Crack. I knew there had to be a rational explanation...



    Lemon Bon Bon




    Everyone knows salespeople are always on crack.
  • Reply 16 of 36
    About that 7800 GT...



    http://discussions.info.apple.com/[email protected]



    and this -



    http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/NVI...T_Graphics.pdf



    and it now says "Available soon" on the powermac/graphics page -



    http://www.apple.com/powermac/graphics.html



    Sounds like it WILL be available - but not until next month. So at least one question (is it ever going to be available?) has been answered.



    Wait, or buy now and don't cringe when the 7800 becomes available. Some rumors - worth exactly what you paid for them - say it will cost $500. That would seem to be a premium over what it sells for on the street (in non-Mac form).



    A drag. I'd like to buy ... this week.
  • Reply 17 of 36
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    Quote:

    Originally posted at Apple.com



    NVIDIA GeForce 7800 GT

    Need faster performance for motion graphics, animation, and 3D design and visualization? Upgrade to the NVIDIA GeForce 7800 GT, designed to accelerate the latest creative applications and blockbuster games. (Available soon.)




    Obviously the GT is coming, but I'd bet you could run a PC GTX in there once the GT is available, and software update has drivers online. I'd like to know what the difference is hardware wise from the GT to the GTX on the PC side. Well see soon enough.
  • Reply 18 of 36
    slugheadslughead Posts: 1,169member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by bjewett

    About that 7800 GT...



    http://discussions.info.apple.com/[email protected]



    and this -



    http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/NVI...T_Graphics.pdf



    and it now says "Available soon" on the powermac/graphics page -



    http://www.apple.com/powermac/graphics.html



    Sounds like it WILL be available - but not until next month. So at least one question (is it ever going to be available?) has been answered.



    Wait, or buy now and don't cringe when the 7800 becomes available. Some rumors - worth exactly what you paid for them - say it will cost $500. That would seem to be a premium over what it sells for on the street (in non-Mac form).



    A drag. I'd like to buy ... this week.




    Rad! I'll put that up immediately.
  • Reply 19 of 36
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by bjewett



    Wait, or buy now and don't cringe when the 7800 becomes available. Some rumors - worth exactly what you paid for them - say it will cost $500. That would seem to be a premium over what it sells for on the street (in non-Mac form).




    I didn't search for it, but I saw the PC price listed at $380 for the 7800 GT by itself at monarch computer.
  • Reply 20 of 36
    slugheadslughead Posts: 1,169member
    For the record, I can't buy until there's an external SATA controller available, but I'm planning to at that point.



    I have to sell my old G5 very soon after this charge appears on my credit card.



    Work sucks.
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