Old argument which is flawed. Windows is no broken because it has wide driver support, it's flawed because .. well, it sucks.
Linux proves that you can have a really wide range of drivers and still have stability. Not quite as wide as windows, but wide enough. Christ, even Apple can't keep up with the driver updates linux does and Apple's got an extremely limited hardware base!
Point wasn't just the amount of drivers, point was also the quality of drivers, let's take as trivial as ati/nvidia video drivers for example, we all know how good the drivers that come with windows are, and I don't even bother to start with linux 3d support. I don't need drivers that may work on a good day, I want drivers that are solid. So far only few companies have come up with excellent drivers, but it's a real wonder how seamlesly things work in apple.
Quote:
Originally posted by slughead
We're not talking about EVERY LITTLE PIECE of hardware. Besides, if you could run OS X on a Dell, I bet Dell would make the drivers themselves!
Dell doesn't write their own drivers, they just add their logo on preference drivers.
Quote:
Originally posted by slughead
Do you really think Microsoft designs all the device drivers? Hah!
No!, exactly my point Microsoft doesn't design all the drivers, they are made by some anonymous hardware designers/partime coders whose motto is, if it doesn't break my machine, it's good. Still it's Microsoft who get's all the complaints when that infamous blue screen of death pops up. It's the integration that matters, the smaller amount of variables the easier it is.
No!, exactly my point Microsoft doesn't design all the drivers, they are made by some anonymous hardware designers/partime coders whose motto is, if it doesn't break my machine, it's good. Still it's Microsoft who get's all the complaints when that infamous blue screen of death pops up. It's the integration that matters, the smaller amount of variables the easier it is.
I'm off topic but that's why Apple likes to have control over the whole package.
Have you ever heard the saying. I use a Mac.. It just works.
I'm off topic but that's why Apple likes to have control over the whole package.
Have you ever heard the saying. I use a Mac.. It just works.
That speaks volumes.
I don't get your point, but to get back to the topic, people were complaining why their 3rd party writers weren't supported. They aren't supported, because apple can't verify that with non apple made drivers IT JUST WORKS.
I don't get your point, but to get back to the topic, people were complaining why their 3rd party writers weren't supported. They aren't supported, because apple can't verify that with non apple made drivers IT JUST WORKS.
You just about made my point.
Of course some have zero support. Look at cocoa applications. How many run on windows? None. Some people buy these drives that are not even compatible with Mac's, and expect them to work 100%. That's just not going to happen just like a cocoa app isn't going to run on windows. Some of the drives that say they are compatible are using poorly made roms, or firmware, and External burners are another monster entirely. Cheap drives re-packaged in an external casing have more drivers to worry about weather they be firewire, usb, or a mix. That's why Apple likes to have control over the whole package. They can not controol the crap a 3rd party will slap together, and try to sell you.
Well i guess i'll just buy it and send it away to be installed by a professional. Is that a good idea? I told you guys before the problem is that sometimes CD's get stuck in my drive, and i have to tilt my book just to get it out. It's filled with junk in there...and i don't think that i have any other options. If somebody here can help me i would really appreciat it
No!, exactly my point Microsoft doesn't design all the drivers, they are made by some anonymous hardware designers/partime coders whose motto is, if it doesn't break my machine, it's good. Still it's Microsoft who get's all the complaints when that infamous blue screen of death pops up. It's the integration that matters, the smaller amount of variables the easier it is.
They aren't anonymous. I personally think that with this age of the internet, you can find out if a company does well with drivers or not.
You ALWAYS look at driver support when buying a product for your computer. If you don't.. it really IS your fault.
I don't buy ATI cards for my PC for this reason. Apple shouldn't specifically lock these drives out. It's so stupid to say that they're doing it to protect you from yourself; they're doing it to protect their bottom line. Nothing wrong with it, just saying it's naive to think Apple doesn't care about 3rd party hardware competing with their own. I'm sure they'd use proprietary hard drives and RAM if they found a cheap way to do it.
Just tell mac owners "sure, you can use that, but don't ask us when it breaks".. even though I trust many hardware vendors MORE than I trust Apple. They tried to stick a Maxtor hard drive in my $3k G5.. if they cared about stuff "working", wtf would they do that?
That may be true, with some components, but in this case, as onlooker said
apple buys these drives from someone else and just flashes their own rom on them.
Actually the OEM drive is built for Apple by Pioneer. (the powermac ones anyway) it's called the DVR-A09. The regular version is called the DVR-109. The OEM DVR-A09 has an Apple logo on it. Whoo hoo. I don't personally know if Apple puts the ROM in them self's, or not, but the 109 is plug, and play. Most retailers will try to sell you a Mac version for $100.00 more than the PC version, but it is the exact same drive. There is no difference between the PC, and Mac version on the retail end.
apple buys these drives from someone else and just flashes their own rom on them.
They don't flash anything, my Dad's using a standard Pioneer drive and it works fine because the model number happens to be one that Apple uses.
They're not stupid, they don't want to hire some chinese slave laborer to flash ROMs all day, or pay pioneer to do it for them. They find the cheapest way to lock in their customers to their hardware.
I've flashed my superdrive with 3rd party ROM so I don't have to deal with region codes works great.
Again, I'm not judging! I bought a mac knowing this and I'm not one of those whiny ass morons who gets hung up on little details he didn't know before buying the thing. I've learned to live with Apple's restrictions, I'm just making sure everyone knows they're there and WHY.. it's certainly not to make their products better.
It might require some Apple specific firmware, but the drives are out there. Just like when Apple was using the DVR-A04 (or was it DVR-A03) for their Super Drives. The DVR-104/103/109/etc are just the OEM versions. The A03/A04/A09 are the retail versions. But like I said, I believe it has Apple specific firmware. If you could obtain the firmware and flash your drive with it, I suppose that OS X/iApps wouldn't know the difference.
Ha ha, they wrote it backwards. The ones with the letters are OEM, not the #'s.
They are still plug, and play weather or not you buy the PC version or Mac. They are identical. No flashing is necessary. That is until you decide to update the most current firmware. I know. I have gone through 4 of them (burners) just updating for the increased speed, and now for dual Layer. I have the 109, but there is a 110. You can get it for as little as $43.19 at shop4tech.com using a cupon code. Shop4Tech code = "burner10" article BTW, the DVR-110 supports 8X burning on the second layer of dual layer media, but I didn't it even think 8x dual layer media existed yet.
Comments
Originally posted by slughead
Old argument which is flawed. Windows is no broken because it has wide driver support, it's flawed because .. well, it sucks.
Linux proves that you can have a really wide range of drivers and still have stability. Not quite as wide as windows, but wide enough. Christ, even Apple can't keep up with the driver updates linux does and Apple's got an extremely limited hardware base!
Point wasn't just the amount of drivers, point was also the quality of drivers, let's take as trivial as ati/nvidia video drivers for example, we all know how good the drivers that come with windows are, and I don't even bother to start with linux 3d support. I don't need drivers that may work on a good day, I want drivers that are solid. So far only few companies have come up with excellent drivers, but it's a real wonder how seamlesly things work in apple.
Originally posted by slughead
We're not talking about EVERY LITTLE PIECE of hardware. Besides, if you could run OS X on a Dell, I bet Dell would make the drivers themselves!
Dell doesn't write their own drivers, they just add their logo on preference drivers.
Originally posted by slughead
Do you really think Microsoft designs all the device drivers? Hah!
No!, exactly my point Microsoft doesn't design all the drivers, they are made by some anonymous hardware designers/partime coders whose motto is, if it doesn't break my machine, it's good. Still it's Microsoft who get's all the complaints when that infamous blue screen of death pops up. It's the integration that matters, the smaller amount of variables the easier it is.
Originally posted by Project2501
No!, exactly my point Microsoft doesn't design all the drivers, they are made by some anonymous hardware designers/partime coders whose motto is, if it doesn't break my machine, it's good. Still it's Microsoft who get's all the complaints when that infamous blue screen of death pops up. It's the integration that matters, the smaller amount of variables the easier it is.
I'm off topic but that's why Apple likes to have control over the whole package.
Have you ever heard the saying. I use a Mac.. It just works.
That speaks volumes.
Originally posted by onlooker
I'm off topic but that's why Apple likes to have control over the whole package.
Have you ever heard the saying. I use a Mac.. It just works.
That speaks volumes.
I don't get your point, but to get back to the topic, people were complaining why their 3rd party writers weren't supported. They aren't supported, because apple can't verify that with non apple made drivers IT JUST WORKS.
Originally posted by Project2501
I don't get your point, but to get back to the topic, people were complaining why their 3rd party writers weren't supported. They aren't supported, because apple can't verify that with non apple made drivers IT JUST WORKS.
You just about made my point.
Of course some have zero support. Look at cocoa applications. How many run on windows? None. Some people buy these drives that are not even compatible with Mac's, and expect them to work 100%. That's just not going to happen just like a cocoa app isn't going to run on windows. Some of the drives that say they are compatible are using poorly made roms, or firmware, and External burners are another monster entirely. Cheap drives re-packaged in an external casing have more drivers to worry about weather they be firewire, usb, or a mix. That's why Apple likes to have control over the whole package. They can not controol the crap a 3rd party will slap together, and try to sell you.
Originally posted by Project2501
No!, exactly my point Microsoft doesn't design all the drivers, they are made by some anonymous hardware designers/partime coders whose motto is, if it doesn't break my machine, it's good. Still it's Microsoft who get's all the complaints when that infamous blue screen of death pops up. It's the integration that matters, the smaller amount of variables the easier it is.
They aren't anonymous. I personally think that with this age of the internet, you can find out if a company does well with drivers or not.
You ALWAYS look at driver support when buying a product for your computer. If you don't.. it really IS your fault.
I don't buy ATI cards for my PC for this reason. Apple shouldn't specifically lock these drives out. It's so stupid to say that they're doing it to protect you from yourself; they're doing it to protect their bottom line. Nothing wrong with it, just saying it's naive to think Apple doesn't care about 3rd party hardware competing with their own. I'm sure they'd use proprietary hard drives and RAM if they found a cheap way to do it.
Just tell mac owners "sure, you can use that, but don't ask us when it breaks".. even though I trust many hardware vendors MORE than I trust Apple. They tried to stick a Maxtor hard drive in my $3k G5.. if they cared about stuff "working", wtf would they do that?
Originally posted by slughead
just saying it's naive to think Apple doesn't care about 3rd party hardware competing with their own.
That may be true, with some components, but in this case, as onlooker said
Originally posted by onlooker
I have the exact same drive that comes in the last PowerMac only it's not the Apple OEM version.
apple buys these drives from someone else and just flashes their own rom on them.
Originally posted by Project2501
That may be true, with some components, but in this case, as onlooker said
apple buys these drives from someone else and just flashes their own rom on them.
Actually the OEM drive is built for Apple by Pioneer. (the powermac ones anyway) it's called the DVR-A09. The regular version is called the DVR-109. The OEM DVR-A09 has an Apple logo on it. Whoo hoo. I don't personally know if Apple puts the ROM in them self's, or not, but the 109 is plug, and play. Most retailers will try to sell you a Mac version for $100.00 more than the PC version, but it is the exact same drive. There is no difference between the PC, and Mac version on the retail end.
Originally posted by Project2501
apple buys these drives from someone else and just flashes their own rom on them.
They don't flash anything, my Dad's using a standard Pioneer drive and it works fine because the model number happens to be one that Apple uses.
They're not stupid, they don't want to hire some chinese slave laborer to flash ROMs all day, or pay pioneer to do it for them. They find the cheapest way to lock in their customers to their hardware.
I've flashed my superdrive with 3rd party ROM so I don't have to deal with region codes works great.
Again, I'm not judging! I bought a mac knowing this and I'm not one of those whiny ass morons who gets hung up on little details he didn't know before buying the thing. I've learned to live with Apple's restrictions, I'm just making sure everyone knows they're there and WHY.. it's certainly not to make their products better.
Originally posted by Gene Clean
So theoretically, you can buy one Pioneer DVR-A09 off NewEgg and it will 'just work', right?
no it only comes with a Mac
Originally posted by onlooker
no it only comes with a Mac
I see. Bummer.
Originally posted by onlooker
no it only comes with a Mac
Not really.
It might require some Apple specific firmware, but the drives are out there. Just like when Apple was using the DVR-A04 (or was it DVR-A03) for their Super Drives. The DVR-104/103/109/etc are just the OEM versions. The A03/A04/A09 are the retail versions. But like I said, I believe it has Apple specific firmware. If you could obtain the firmware and flash your drive with it, I suppose that OS X/iApps wouldn't know the difference.
[EDIT]
Sorry didn't see the flash discussion above, but here is another link.
They are still plug, and play weather or not you buy the PC version or Mac. They are identical. No flashing is necessary. That is until you decide to update the most current firmware. I know. I have gone through 4 of them (burners) just updating for the increased speed, and now for dual Layer. I have the 109, but there is a 110. You can get it for as little as $43.19 at shop4tech.com using a cupon code. Shop4Tech code = "burner10" article BTW, the DVR-110 supports 8X burning on the second layer of dual layer media, but I didn't it even think 8x dual layer media existed yet.