You've made this comment before. What proof do you have to back this statement? Hasn't WWDC attendance risen dramatically? Are not programs that were once not on the Mac now being ported? Has not third party development from small companies and guys in their living rooms given us great new applications?
I, too, would like to see where you are getting that impression from. To whom are we losing developers?
Quote:
Originally posted by Gon
Why do 12-year olds want video iPods in the first place, and are the parents really buying them?
Why do 12-year olds want cellphones with built-in cameras in the first place, and are the parents really buying them?
Unfortunately, yes, the parents are stupid enough to buy them and the children are influenced by marketing and peer pressure enough to want them. There's no rational, logical, practical reasons. They're just desirable items.
To put it nicely, the title is a clever out-of-context quote of the article, I think that's pretty sad. Overall, there's no way that sales of iPods will beat those of cell phones, the article and survey apperently involves incredibly narrow and artificially constructed circumstances to claim otherwise.
For christmas presents, I could see it. Everyone has a cell phone now. Its not exactly a must-have gift anymore. The ipod, on the other hand, still only holds a small segment of the entire populace.
I, too, would like to see where you are getting that impression from. To whom are we losing developers?
Why do 12-year olds want cellphones with built-in cameras in the first place, and are the parents really buying them?
Unfortunately, yes, the parents are stupid enough to buy them and the children are influenced by marketing and peer pressure enough to want them. There's no rational, logical, practical reasons. They're just desirable items.
You've made this comment before. What proof do you have to back this statement? Hasn't WWDC attendance risen dramatically? Are not programs that were once not on the Mac now being ported? Has not third party development from small companies and guys in their living rooms given us great new applications?
The last time this was discussed, I gave links. You can go to Macintouch and see for yourself.
We see announcements about this all of the time. Sometimes they are on Maccentral, sometimes other places. This isn't a controversal statement.
Here, this is all I'm going to look for right now, but believe me, there is far more. It's both web sites on this thread and software. They had an older thread as well somewhere. This just starts at the middle of April 2005. It continues to the present, but it doesn't show that at the top of the page. When you get to the latter pages, the more recent stuff will show up.
Did you bother to read 10 or so pages from the link?
If you did bother, you would see the problems we have as Mac users.
These are reports from people about web pages that don't work. Government systems that don't allow Mac users to take part. Software that has been discontinued for the Mac, etc.
Just pick pages at randon, and read the posts. You will see what I mean.
You've made this comment before. What proof do you have to back this statement? Hasn't WWDC attendance risen dramatically? Are not programs that were once not on the Mac now being ported? Has not third party development from small companies and guys in their living rooms given us great new applications?
What WWDC attendance? The number of people going to the WWDC. Or the number of vendors appearing at it. BEcause the last WWDC SF, IIRC, was smaller then the past, not taking up a whole convention area. And how many who do come to show off wares are developers, and how many are showing off their next big iPod accessory?
Oh, and I guess I wouldn't feel like there was a drop in developers if there were anything like competition in many of the software categories. As it is, you're lucky to find two apps that cover a particular area.
Did you bother to read 10 or so pages from the link?
If you did bother, you would see the problems we have as Mac users.
These are reports from people about web pages that don't work. Government systems that don't allow Mac users to take part. Software that has been discontinued for the Mac, etc.
That's nothing new, but it's a far cry from your original claim.
My, oooooh my. That entire thread should be required reading before participating in any rumor site.
I'd forgotten how doom-and-gloom so many Mac users were about the iPod when it came out. I recall people saying that Apple was going to abandon making Macs too.
Don't get too hysterical at the thought of Apple getting out of the hardware business. Now that Apple is switching to the prevalent processor in the PC world, they're a lot closer then ever before to being able to drop hardware without risking too much (no one made PPC computers before - now everyone makes a Mac compatible, even if its not blessed at this point in time). Esp. since Apple is so restricted to lame offerings (want a Mac, you can choose from FIVE whole models! Wow!)
Being such a small player, Apple can't afford to produce models that fit people's needs. They decide just to fit the needs they want to fit. So if you're one of those people who thinks built-in monitors is stupid, you're stuck buying an underperforming mini or an overly expensive tower. And if you want two monitors? Well, its a tower. (Or, you could try hacking your iMac to support spanning, assuming it doesn't cause havoc to your computer, but you're still left with a built-in screen).
And you're telling me users wouldn't want to be able to choose from a boatload of laptop options, rather than Apple's "consumer white" or "Professional silver" models? How about a laptop with two (yes, TWO!) battery compartments (or one that lets you swap out the CD drive for a second battery). Or one that lets you swap out a hard drive without having to risk breaking your warranty, your computer, or both. Or how about a tablet-mac? Won't get one from Apple, but Gateway makes a tablet. Put OS X on it, get Ink up and running, and there you go.
And not everyone goes gaga over the "style-over-substance" Macs. And despite the arguments that no one upgrades their computer hardware, they just buy new stuff, well, this might be true because its that's the way it is, or because (a) Macs can't be upgraded (thanks apple!), and (b) PCs are so cheap, its not worth the effort.
Actually it doesn't support the claim at all as they do nothing to cover the numbers that have converted. Web page issues are nothing new, particularly from large agencies that have built around proprietary IE controls. If that's the case they have also abandoned around 10% of the windows user base too who use Firefox. If the site supports Firefox then there is no abandonment of the mac platform.
Increasing attendance at a developer conference is a quantifiable and provable statistic. Unless you have run a web crawler to catch companies that have switched either way and done a count your "claim" is unfounded and most likely spurious.
Increasing attendance at a developer conference is a quantifiable and provable statistic. Unless you have run a web crawler to catch companies that have switched either way and done a count your "claim" is unfounded and most likely spurious.
Doesn't that all depend on who's attending the developer's conference. I mean, if its large developers, great. But if its just a bunch of shareware authors putting together small but useful apps, it doesn't help those looking for alternatives to the apps out there.
BTW, did you hear that the mac has lost one of the few tax apps. Taxcut no longer has a Mac version. Now its turbotax or a web-based version, apparently. Of course, neither TurboTax nor Taxcut offered the choices they offered windows users, but that's a different story too, I'm assuming.
Actually it doesn't support the claim at all as they do nothing to cover the numbers that have converted. Web page issues are nothing new, particularly from large agencies that have built around proprietary IE controls. If that's the case they have also abandoned around 10% of the windows user base too who use Firefox. If the site supports Firefox then there is no abandonment of the mac platform.
Increasing attendance at a developer conference is a quantifiable and provable statistic. Unless you have run a web crawler to catch companies that have switched either way and done a count your "claim" is unfounded and most likely spurious.
If you read enough of it, you will see that it does. The pages are a mixed bag. They show plenty of apps that are being discontinued. As Louzer shows, another one has bit the dust.
Comments
Originally posted by melgross
We are still losing developers
You've made this comment before. What proof do you have to back this statement? Hasn't WWDC attendance risen dramatically? Are not programs that were once not on the Mac now being ported? Has not third party development from small companies and guys in their living rooms given us great new applications?
Originally posted by melgross
We are still losing developers
I, too, would like to see where you are getting that impression from. To whom are we losing developers?
Originally posted by Gon
Why do 12-year olds want video iPods in the first place, and are the parents really buying them?
Why do 12-year olds want cellphones with built-in cameras in the first place, and are the parents really buying them?
Unfortunately, yes, the parents are stupid enough to buy them and the children are influenced by marketing and peer pressure enough to want them. There's no rational, logical, practical reasons. They're just desirable items.
Originally posted by JeffDM
To put it nicely, the title is a clever out-of-context quote of the article, I think that's pretty sad. Overall, there's no way that sales of iPods will beat those of cell phones, the article and survey apperently involves incredibly narrow and artificially constructed circumstances to claim otherwise.
For christmas presents, I could see it. Everyone has a cell phone now. Its not exactly a must-have gift anymore. The ipod, on the other hand, still only holds a small segment of the entire populace.
I'll do it again.
Originally posted by Chucker
I, too, would like to see where you are getting that impression from. To whom are we losing developers?
Why do 12-year olds want cellphones with built-in cameras in the first place, and are the parents really buying them?
Unfortunately, yes, the parents are stupid enough to buy them and the children are influenced by marketing and peer pressure enough to want them. There's no rational, logical, practical reasons. They're just desirable items.
Check my answer to fahlman.
Again, I've provided links before.
Originally posted by fahlman
You've made this comment before. What proof do you have to back this statement? Hasn't WWDC attendance risen dramatically? Are not programs that were once not on the Mac now being ported? Has not third party development from small companies and guys in their living rooms given us great new applications?
The last time this was discussed, I gave links. You can go to Macintouch and see for yourself.
We see announcements about this all of the time. Sometimes they are on Maccentral, sometimes other places. This isn't a controversal statement.
Here, this is all I'm going to look for right now, but believe me, there is far more. It's both web sites on this thread and software. They had an older thread as well somewhere. This just starts at the middle of April 2005. It continues to the present, but it doesn't show that at the top of the page. When you get to the latter pages, the more recent stuff will show up.
http://www.macintouch.com/marginal10.html#apr15
Originally posted by melgross
http://www.macintouch.com/marginal10.html#apr15
What does MacInTouch have to do with developers?
Originally posted by Chucker
What does MacInTouch have to do with developers?
Did you bother to read 10 or so pages from the link?
If you did bother, you would see the problems we have as Mac users.
These are reports from people about web pages that don't work. Government systems that don't allow Mac users to take part. Software that has been discontinued for the Mac, etc.
Just pick pages at randon, and read the posts. You will see what I mean.
Originally posted by fahlman
You've made this comment before. What proof do you have to back this statement? Hasn't WWDC attendance risen dramatically? Are not programs that were once not on the Mac now being ported? Has not third party development from small companies and guys in their living rooms given us great new applications?
What WWDC attendance? The number of people going to the WWDC. Or the number of vendors appearing at it. BEcause the last WWDC SF, IIRC, was smaller then the past, not taking up a whole convention area. And how many who do come to show off wares are developers, and how many are showing off their next big iPod accessory?
Oh, and I guess I wouldn't feel like there was a drop in developers if there were anything like competition in many of the software categories. As it is, you're lucky to find two apps that cover a particular area.
Originally posted by melgross
Did you bother to read 10 or so pages from the link?
If you did bother, you would see the problems we have as Mac users.
These are reports from people about web pages that don't work. Government systems that don't allow Mac users to take part. Software that has been discontinued for the Mac, etc.
That's nothing new, but it's a far cry from your original claim.
Originally posted by inkswamp
My, oooooh my. That entire thread should be required reading before participating in any rumor site.
I'd forgotten how doom-and-gloom so many Mac users were about the iPod when it came out. I recall people saying that Apple was going to abandon making Macs too.
Don't get too hysterical at the thought of Apple getting out of the hardware business. Now that Apple is switching to the prevalent processor in the PC world, they're a lot closer then ever before to being able to drop hardware without risking too much (no one made PPC computers before - now everyone makes a Mac compatible, even if its not blessed at this point in time). Esp. since Apple is so restricted to lame offerings (want a Mac, you can choose from FIVE whole models! Wow!)
Being such a small player, Apple can't afford to produce models that fit people's needs. They decide just to fit the needs they want to fit. So if you're one of those people who thinks built-in monitors is stupid, you're stuck buying an underperforming mini or an overly expensive tower. And if you want two monitors? Well, its a tower. (Or, you could try hacking your iMac to support spanning, assuming it doesn't cause havoc to your computer, but you're still left with a built-in screen).
And you're telling me users wouldn't want to be able to choose from a boatload of laptop options, rather than Apple's "consumer white" or "Professional silver" models? How about a laptop with two (yes, TWO!) battery compartments (or one that lets you swap out the CD drive for a second battery). Or one that lets you swap out a hard drive without having to risk breaking your warranty, your computer, or both. Or how about a tablet-mac? Won't get one from Apple, but Gateway makes a tablet. Put OS X on it, get Ink up and running, and there you go.
And not everyone goes gaga over the "style-over-substance" Macs. And despite the arguments that no one upgrades their computer hardware, they just buy new stuff, well, this might be true because its that's the way it is, or because (a) Macs can't be upgraded (thanks apple!), and (b) PCs are so cheap, its not worth the effort.
Originally posted by Chucker
That's nothing new, but it's a far cry from your original claim.
Nothing new? Far cry from my original claim?
This what I said:
" We are still losing developers, and websites are still not accommodating us as much as they should."
It supports my "claim" 100%
Increasing attendance at a developer conference is a quantifiable and provable statistic. Unless you have run a web crawler to catch companies that have switched either way and done a count your "claim" is unfounded and most likely spurious.
Originally posted by Telomar
Increasing attendance at a developer conference is a quantifiable and provable statistic. Unless you have run a web crawler to catch companies that have switched either way and done a count your "claim" is unfounded and most likely spurious.
Doesn't that all depend on who's attending the developer's conference. I mean, if its large developers, great. But if its just a bunch of shareware authors putting together small but useful apps, it doesn't help those looking for alternatives to the apps out there.
BTW, did you hear that the mac has lost one of the few tax apps. Taxcut no longer has a Mac version. Now its turbotax or a web-based version, apparently. Of course, neither TurboTax nor Taxcut offered the choices they offered windows users, but that's a different story too, I'm assuming.
Originally posted by Telomar
Actually it doesn't support the claim at all as they do nothing to cover the numbers that have converted. Web page issues are nothing new, particularly from large agencies that have built around proprietary IE controls. If that's the case they have also abandoned around 10% of the windows user base too who use Firefox. If the site supports Firefox then there is no abandonment of the mac platform.
Increasing attendance at a developer conference is a quantifiable and provable statistic. Unless you have run a web crawler to catch companies that have switched either way and done a count your "claim" is unfounded and most likely spurious.
If you read enough of it, you will see that it does. The pages are a mixed bag. They show plenty of apps that are being discontinued. As Louzer shows, another one has bit the dust.