New Apple laptop to feature Intel Robson cache technology?

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 41
    PIO mode 4 is only 16.7 MB/s. If a BIOS starts up using this mode, then flash would be competitive.
  • Reply 22 of 41
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 32,977member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by heaven or las vegas

    PIO mode 4 is only 16.7 MB/s. If a BIOS starts up using this mode, then flash would be competitive.



    Right, that's basically what I said. And that's what they're talking about using it for.



    But the rest of the speculation is just off center.
  • Reply 23 of 41
    Mac OS X uses files to swap memory... slow

    Linux and other OSes use a dedicated partition... faster



    NAND flash memory could be useful to use as a primary swap location. This would add another step in memory hierarchy, somehow : CPU registers << L1 cache << L2 cache << (L3 cache) << RAM << NAND swap << Hard drive swap
  • Reply 24 of 41
    pbg4 dudepbg4 dude Posts: 1,611member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by melgross

    Anyone remember bubble memory?



    The thing that killed bubble memory was that access was sequential, not random. So it worked like a tape drive. If you wanted the last byte in bubble RAM, you had to traverse through every single byte to get to the last one.
  • Reply 25 of 41
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 32,977member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by PBG4 Dude

    The thing that killed bubble memory was that access was sequential, not random. So it worked like a tape drive. If you wanted the last byte in bubble RAM, you had to traverse through every single byte to get to the last one.



    The thing that killed it was that HD's, which were thought at the time to be reaching their maximum capacity and speeds, suddenly took off in both areas.



    Bubble memory which had been thought to offer much larger capacity/price ratio's were left in the dust, as they hadn't come to market yet.



    Flash is also sequential. That's one of the reasons why it's slow.



    They had worked out many of the access problems with bubble, but it didn't matter by then. It also didn't have the read/write limitations that Flash has. Actually, it's longitivity was much better than magnetic technology, with an almost infinite life, and no degradation of stored information for many years.
  • Reply 26 of 41
    sjksjk Posts: 603member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by macslut

    If your machine is equipped with a Hybrid Hard Drive, Windows Vista takes advantage of this hardware to boot, hibernate, and resume use more quickly. Hybrid Hard Drive technology can also improve system reliability and battery life.



    The hybrid drive is intended for mobile PCs running Windows Vista. Your data is written to the flash memory, which saves work for the mechanical hard drive?saving you battery power. The hybrid drive helps Windows Vista resume use faster from Sleep because data can be restored from flash memory faster than from the mechanical hard drive. And since the mechanical hard drive is not working when you are in Sleep state with the Hybrid Hard Drive, you have less risk of hardware problems with the hard drive when you're on the move. Windows Vista takes advantage of Hybrid Hard Drives to save battery life, resume use faster from hibernation, and improve reliability.



    (bold added)



    Macs already wake up fast enough (for me) from normal sleep but would certainly benefit from using flash memory just for safe sleep without being a full-blown Robson cache.
  • Reply 27 of 41
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 32,977member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by sjk

    (bold added)



    Macs already wake up fast enough (for me) from normal sleep but would certainly benefit from using flash memory just for safe sleep without being a full-blown Robson cache.




    "because data can be restored from flash memory faster than from the mechanical hard drive."



    Let's also understand what they mean by that. Because the drive is powered down, as was mentioned, it takes time to turn on, spin up, do self checks, position its head, and then to start reading the data out. This more than makes up for the slower Flash memory, for this purpose.
  • Reply 28 of 41
    telomartelomar Posts: 1,804member
    Worth mentioning is when Intel showed off Robson they showed significant performance improvements using only 128 MB of flash. It doesn't require huge amounts of flash memory.
  • Reply 29 of 41
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 32,977member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Telomar

    Worth mentioning is when Intel showed off Robson they showed significant performance improvements using only 128 MB of flash. It doesn't require huge amounts of flash memory.



    That's right. I keep repeating that to people who think it will take tens of dollars of Flash, when it will only be a few bucks, at most. The packaging, plus the retail markups are what bring the price up to what it is.
  • Reply 30 of 41
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:

    Sources have previously told AppleInsider to expect the first Intel-based Macs at next week's Macworld Expo in San Francisco, which may include the first 15-inch Intel PowerBook.



    I thought it was a 13" iBook.



    These rumors are just shooting all over the map.



    I suppose if you make 100 guesses one of them has to be right.
  • Reply 31 of 41
    programmerprogrammer Posts: 3,410member
    A large Flash memory's main impact might very well be power consumption, not speed. The amount of battery power required to spool up that disk all the time is considerable. Imagine a laptop where it only had to spool the disk when you actual read or wrote files, not while you were just working away on your document or reading websites.
  • Reply 32 of 41
    kaiwaikaiwai Posts: 246member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by 1984

    We all know how accurate DigiTimes has been...



    LOL, it would have been alot more interesting had they said, "replace the hard disk with a collection of flash"



    I'm surprised they don't just dump the OS on a 8 gig flash device and just use the hard disk to save documents etc. on it
  • Reply 33 of 41
    pbg4 dudepbg4 dude Posts: 1,611member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by melgross

    That's right. I keep repeating that to people who think it will take tens of dollars of Flash, when it will only be a few bucks, at most. The packaging, plus the retail markups are what bring the price up to what it is.



    Especially with the deal Apple made to buy 1/2 of Samsung's flash supply. Maybe all that flash isn't going into nanos?
  • Reply 34 of 41
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 32,977member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by PBG4 Dude

    Especially with the deal Apple made to buy 1/2 of Samsung's flash supply. Maybe all that flash isn't going into nanos?



    That's actually some of the thinking I've read from analysts.
  • Reply 35 of 41
    sjksjk Posts: 603member
    Like we really need analysts speculating the obvious.
  • Reply 36 of 41
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 32,977member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by sjk

    Like we really need analysts speculating the obvious.



    Sometimes these things are obvious AFTER people in the business say them. Then everyone else says that they thought so as well.



    For business purposes what they say can be important, while what you say isn't.



    That's why it matters.
  • Reply 37 of 41
    kim kap solkim kap sol Posts: 2,987member
    Being an Apple analyst is the easiest job on the planet. They only need a few website addresses. http://www.appleinsider.com, http://www.thinksecret.com, http://www.macrumors.com.
  • Reply 38 of 41
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 32,977member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by kim kap sol

    Being an Apple analyst is the easiest job on the planet. They only need a few website addresses. http://www.appleinsider.com, http://www.thinksecret.com, http://www.macrumors.com.



    Except, as you know, those websites are wrong far more often than they are right. Sometimes they get info that proves correct, but mostly, not. They all missed the big one, while the WSJ, and then the Times got it right.



    Macosrumors has gone straight down the tubes the past few years. It's one of the least professionally produced sites on the net.
  • Reply 39 of 41
    cygsidcygsid Posts: 210member
    Could this rumor actually apply to the MacBook Pro? I've seen at least one report of extremely fast boot up and application launches from somebody at the Expo.
  • Reply 40 of 41
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 32,977member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by cygsid

    Could this rumor actually apply to the MacBook Pro? I've seen at least one report of extremely fast boot up and application launches from somebody at the Expo.



    Jobs never mentioned it. I haven't seen anyone say, either way.



    We may just have to wait until they are out.
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