a.) Unfortunately, not everyone's a Mac user. If I send some poor Windows user a poisoned file, they aren't going to be happy.
[/B]
That was the one thing I thought might be a valid argument, as mentioned above. But I wonder... how will that happen? Since there aren't any Mac viruses/trojans that will self-propagate, the only way something like that could happen is if you actively send an infected file, like attaching it to your e-mail. Now, why would you do that? How can that happen?
The only scenario I can think of goes something like this:
You download a file from the internet, or, alternatively, you are sent, via e-mail, an infected file --> you consciously forward the file to someone.
Now I never attach a file that I downloaded from the internet and send it off to somebody, needless to say a suspect file that was sent to me via e-mail by someone. If it's available on the web and I know that the person wants/needs that file, I'll just give him/her the link.
The only files I will send as e-mail attachments or via some service like yousendit.com, are files that I myself create, mostly digital photos, PDF files, Adobe Illustrator files, etc. I think that such very simple precautions are infinitely more effective in preventing yourself from propagating viruses than installing a virus checker (that is, on OSX).
the first indication of a mac virus will likely be a story on macminute saying something like "hey, damn near all mac users got caught off guard this morning by virus insert-name-here, and if you checked your email this mroning, you probably have it to" kind of notification. by then, you kinda are already screwed.
Well rok, I actually kind of agree. At least, that is a plausible scenario.
But I ask you this.
How will your anti-virus software, which, on that morning, will NOT have the definition for that particular virus or even for anything resembling it, be able to defend your computer better than mine?
And what is wrong with sending a Windoze user a virus? After they've lost everything a few times, they might see the light and switch to a beautiful new Mac. >:-)
Why have an OS X virus scanner that scans for (a) common Windows viruses, or (b) Mac viruses? I'll tell you why!
a.) Unfortunately, not everyone's a Mac user. If I send some poor Windows user a poisoned file, they aren't going to be happy.
b.) There's no infection where there's no flesh, and right now, there's little flesh. But. Macs will become more popular. Mac viruses don't spread well because there are so few Macs, but the machines will gain popularity. They're doing it right now.
Good points you have. A virus is not a happy thing. A few years ago, using Mac OS 8.6 on a G3, I got a letter in Word from a woman I was writing. I have no Word, so I downloaded icWord in order to read it. As soon as I opened her letter, the cursor began to make disappear everything it touched, as it went across and down the screen, icons, folders, etc, and wreaking havoc. I was not even able to turn off the Mac, until I just unplugged it. Then every time I would start up the same thing would happen. I had to reinstall the OS and use TechTool Pro, and DiskWarrior many times, and finally got rid of it after several weeks of this. She acknowledged that other people had said the same thing to her, and she was a pc user. I do not understand how that worked, but it did happen.
Of course, this was with the older Mac OS, I am just saying that it is not too much fun. I have had no problems anything like this while using OS X.
So while I do not use an antivirus now, nor really feel the need for it, I can certainly see the point about not wanting to spread anything to someone else.
Perhaps Apple will once again find their way to provide an antivirus.
That Clam X AV sounds promising, I am going to look at that.
Maybe its just me but how the hell do you send a virus. I use hotmail (sorry but everyone uses msn), and even if someone sends me a program file (with no virus) its blocked. And a virus can't spread if its just code in a word document. CAN IT???
I know that your writing style, and probably life, involves not making any commitmets or definate statements. Would you like to elaborate on which "gaping, wide-open doors" Mac OS X has? Or are you really just writing stuff down that sounds good?
Sending a virus...I don't know how I would send one. I don't know if what occurred to me is what anyone would define as a virus, but it certainly caught on in my Mac, right after I opened the letter in Word. Other friends of hers told her that they had those kind of problems, too, after receiving letters from her. If I had known the guy at Trend Micro that I met later, I would have sent it to him to quarantine and study, or whatever they do. He used to send me news of new viruses, none of which would ever affect me.
To get back to the thread subject, it was good of Apple to include Virex as long as they did. Now, that fellow who mentioned the idea of Apple buying the ClamXAV programme, and putting it in .Mac had a good idea, that would spread good will about Apple.
I don't want to be confrontational, but I just gotta ask.
Why?
Why do you need, or even want, anti-virus software on a platform that hasn't had a virus outbreak in 8 years? (And that was a different OS). What are you protecting against? What's in those virus definition files?
Actually, I think I know the answer to the last question ... bunch of virus definitions for Windows. Again, why do you want it?
The only thing I can think of that might do any benefit, however little, is that by detecting Windows viruses (e.g., e-mail attachments, etc.), you lower the risk of transferring them to a compromise-able machine (i.e., Windows). Is that why? I just can't understand why people would want to waste resources (both monetary and CPU/HDD space) on anti-virus software for OSX at this point in time, especially when anti-virus software can potentially cause a lot of trouble itself, if not directly comprise a security threat (as in the case of NAV), by nature being a perpetually running application/service.
Not only is it good insurance, but there is a matter of politeness. Nortons does catch PC virus's. I get one, here and there.
It's not cool to pass one to your PC using friends and collegues.
I also have never had a problem with Nortons Anti-Virus. Virex, however, has had problems on X for a long time.
I also don't trust open source checkers. Not because they may have problems themselves, but because you can't count on them being updated regularly.
Usually, they are, but not always. Reports have generally shown them to be less effective.
And what is wrong with sending a Windoze user a virus? After they've lost everything a few times, they might see the light and switch to a beautiful new Mac. >:-)
I also don't trust open source checkers. Not because they may have problems themselves, but because you can't count on them being updated regularly.
Usually, they are, but not always. Reports have generally shown them to be less effective.
Source?
I've, in general, found them to be more quickly updated than the commercial products and less invasive. This is evident in ClamAV and Spam Assassin which btw Apple considers good enough to ship with Server and support directly in Mail. Often the ClamAV programmers create fixes for viruses that they've named some hours before Symantec et al name a virus.
I also don't trust open source checkers. Not because they may have problems themselves, but because you can't count on them being updated regularly.
Usually, they are, but not always. Reports have generally shown them to be less effective.
I call BS. Source?
Not only are they quickly updated (as aegisdesign said) but their code is free, so if the company/developer just doesn't update it anymore, the code is free and open for anyone to continue updating it.
Apple knows that, that's why they include ClamAV with their Server edition of Tiger.
I guess, by that metric, no open source application is good because they're less effective. Including, but not limited to, Linux. Just check Anandtech - he breaks it down quite nicely.
Not only is it good insurance, but there is a matter of politeness. Nortons does catch PC virus's. I get one, here and there.
It's not cool to pass one to your PC using friends and collegues.
Yeah, I get PC virus's every once in a while, too. The e-mail messages with the virus file, in those cases, go straight to the trash can to be immediately deleted permanently.
You don't provide an answer to the question I posed: under what kind of scenario would you, as a Mac user, pass that file on to your PC using friends and colleagues unless you are a complete moron?
Now, you might argue that anti-virus software for the Mac is good in that respect; i.e., moron-proof. And I might actually agree. But I think few, if any, people visiting these boards, myself included, will actively do such a stupid thing. And since without a virus/trojan for the Mac, there's no way for that file to self-propagate.
I mean, is that something you do? Like, you receive a suspect e-mail with a suspect file that's named "MyPinkPlumPu**y.jpg .exe" and you forward that e-mail to your friends, complete with the attachment???
I mean, is that something you do? Like, you receive a suspect e-mail with a suspect file that's named "Hey, take a look at this immediately, you'll luv it!!!!.jpg .exe" and you forward that e-mail to your friends, complete with the attachment??? [/B]
Quite often I'll get them forwarded to me by morons I know (mentioning no names). It's polite to tell them your virus checker caught it and would they please now check their PC and install a virus checker.
Sometimes, it works out well for me as I can sell them hosting with Spam Assassin and ClamAV built in already to solve their mail spam/virus problems. ;-)
Not only are they quickly updated (as aegisdesign said) but their code is free, so if the company/developer just doesn't update it anymore, the code is free and open for anyone to continue updating it.
Apple knows that, that's why they include ClamAV with their Server edition of Tiger.
I guess, by that metric, no open source application is good because they're less effective. Including, but not limited to, Linux. Just check Anandtech - he breaks it down quite nicely.
No, it's not BS. This evening, when I'll have the time, I'll try to link for you.
Yeah, I get PC virus's every once in a while, too. The e-mail messages with the virus file, in those cases, go straight to the trash can to be immediately deleted permanently.
You don't provide an answer to the question I posed: under what kind of scenario would you, as a Mac user, pass that file on to your PC using friends and colleagues unless you are a complete moron?
Now, you might argue that anti-virus software for the Mac is good in that respect; i.e., moron-proof. And I might actually agree. But I think few, if any, people visiting these boards, myself included, will actively do such a stupid thing. And since without a virus/trojan for the Mac, there's no way for that file to self-propagate.
I mean, is that something you do? Like, you receive a suspect e-mail with a suspect file that's named "MyPinkPlumPu**y.jpg .exe" and you forward that e-mail to your friends, complete with the attachment???
E-mail is not the only way to get virus's. I've gotten virus's at my company in various files over the years. I've gotten them from customers giving me Quark files, PS files Excel files, etc. I get them at home from similar sources.
I've dragged images off pages from a site whiuch contained virus's.
Even packaged software, over the years, has contained virus's. This has included, Lotus, MS, Adobe, Apple, etc.
I even bought a Dell for my company (because we needed one Windows machine in the graphics dept. to properly open PP files) that came with a virus already installed!
Comments
Originally posted by jdbartlett
a.) Unfortunately, not everyone's a Mac user. If I send some poor Windows user a poisoned file, they aren't going to be happy.
[/B]
That was the one thing I thought might be a valid argument, as mentioned above. But I wonder... how will that happen? Since there aren't any Mac viruses/trojans that will self-propagate, the only way something like that could happen is if you actively send an infected file, like attaching it to your e-mail. Now, why would you do that? How can that happen?
The only scenario I can think of goes something like this:
You download a file from the internet, or, alternatively, you are sent, via e-mail, an infected file --> you consciously forward the file to someone.
Now I never attach a file that I downloaded from the internet and send it off to somebody, needless to say a suspect file that was sent to me via e-mail by someone. If it's available on the web and I know that the person wants/needs that file, I'll just give him/her the link.
The only files I will send as e-mail attachments or via some service like yousendit.com, are files that I myself create, mostly digital photos, PDF files, Adobe Illustrator files, etc. I think that such very simple precautions are infinitely more effective in preventing yourself from propagating viruses than installing a virus checker (that is, on OSX).
Originally posted by rok
the first indication of a mac virus will likely be a story on macminute saying something like "hey, damn near all mac users got caught off guard this morning by virus insert-name-here, and if you checked your email this mroning, you probably have it to" kind of notification. by then, you kinda are already screwed.
Well rok, I actually kind of agree. At least, that is a plausible scenario.
But I ask you this.
How will your anti-virus software, which, on that morning, will NOT have the definition for that particular virus or even for anything resembling it, be able to defend your computer better than mine?
Originally posted by jdbartlett
Why have an OS X virus scanner that scans for (a) common Windows viruses, or (b) Mac viruses? I'll tell you why!
a.) Unfortunately, not everyone's a Mac user. If I send some poor Windows user a poisoned file, they aren't going to be happy.
b.) There's no infection where there's no flesh, and right now, there's little flesh. But. Macs will become more popular. Mac viruses don't spread well because there are so few Macs, but the machines will gain popularity. They're doing it right now.
Good points you have. A virus is not a happy thing. A few years ago, using Mac OS 8.6 on a G3, I got a letter in Word from a woman I was writing. I have no Word, so I downloaded icWord in order to read it. As soon as I opened her letter, the cursor began to make disappear everything it touched, as it went across and down the screen, icons, folders, etc, and wreaking havoc. I was not even able to turn off the Mac, until I just unplugged it. Then every time I would start up the same thing would happen. I had to reinstall the OS and use TechTool Pro, and DiskWarrior many times, and finally got rid of it after several weeks of this. She acknowledged that other people had said the same thing to her, and she was a pc user. I do not understand how that worked, but it did happen.
Of course, this was with the older Mac OS, I am just saying that it is not too much fun. I have had no problems anything like this while using OS X.
So while I do not use an antivirus now, nor really feel the need for it, I can certainly see the point about not wanting to spread anything to someone else.
Perhaps Apple will once again find their way to provide an antivirus.
That Clam X AV sounds promising, I am going to look at that.
Originally posted by lngtones
I know that your writing style, and probably life, involves not making any commitmets or definate statements. Would you like to elaborate on which "gaping, wide-open doors" Mac OS X has? Or are you really just writing stuff down that sounds good?
Troll
To get back to the thread subject, it was good of Apple to include Virex as long as they did. Now, that fellow who mentioned the idea of Apple buying the ClamXAV programme, and putting it in .Mac had a good idea, that would spread good will about Apple.
Originally posted by rawhead
I don't want to be confrontational, but I just gotta ask.
Why?
Why do you need, or even want, anti-virus software on a platform that hasn't had a virus outbreak in 8 years? (And that was a different OS). What are you protecting against? What's in those virus definition files?
Actually, I think I know the answer to the last question ... bunch of virus definitions for Windows. Again, why do you want it?
The only thing I can think of that might do any benefit, however little, is that by detecting Windows viruses (e.g., e-mail attachments, etc.), you lower the risk of transferring them to a compromise-able machine (i.e., Windows). Is that why? I just can't understand why people would want to waste resources (both monetary and CPU/HDD space) on anti-virus software for OSX at this point in time, especially when anti-virus software can potentially cause a lot of trouble itself, if not directly comprise a security threat (as in the case of NAV), by nature being a perpetually running application/service.
Not only is it good insurance, but there is a matter of politeness. Nortons does catch PC virus's. I get one, here and there.
It's not cool to pass one to your PC using friends and collegues.
I also have never had a problem with Nortons Anti-Virus. Virex, however, has had problems on X for a long time.
I also don't trust open source checkers. Not because they may have problems themselves, but because you can't count on them being updated regularly.
Usually, they are, but not always. Reports have generally shown them to be less effective.
The only problem with Norton's is that it's slow.
Originally posted by zeus423
And what is wrong with sending a Windoze user a virus? After they've lost everything a few times, they might see the light and switch to a beautiful new Mac. >:-)
I assume that's a joke.
Originally posted by melgross
I also don't trust open source checkers. Not because they may have problems themselves, but because you can't count on them being updated regularly.
Usually, they are, but not always. Reports have generally shown them to be less effective.
Source?
I've, in general, found them to be more quickly updated than the commercial products and less invasive. This is evident in ClamAV and Spam Assassin which btw Apple considers good enough to ship with Server and support directly in Mail. Often the ClamAV programmers create fixes for viruses that they've named some hours before Symantec et al name a virus.
Originally posted by melgross
I also don't trust open source checkers. Not because they may have problems themselves, but because you can't count on them being updated regularly.
Usually, they are, but not always. Reports have generally shown them to be less effective.
I call BS. Source?
Not only are they quickly updated (as aegisdesign said) but their code is free, so if the company/developer just doesn't update it anymore, the code is free and open for anyone to continue updating it.
Apple knows that, that's why they include ClamAV with their Server edition of Tiger.
I guess, by that metric, no open source application is good because they're less effective. Including, but not limited to, Linux. Just check Anandtech - he breaks it down quite nicely.
Originally posted by melgross
Not only is it good insurance, but there is a matter of politeness. Nortons does catch PC virus's. I get one, here and there.
It's not cool to pass one to your PC using friends and collegues.
Yeah, I get PC virus's every once in a while, too. The e-mail messages with the virus file, in those cases, go straight to the trash can to be immediately deleted permanently.
You don't provide an answer to the question I posed: under what kind of scenario would you, as a Mac user, pass that file on to your PC using friends and colleagues unless you are a complete moron?
Now, you might argue that anti-virus software for the Mac is good in that respect; i.e., moron-proof. And I might actually agree. But I think few, if any, people visiting these boards, myself included, will actively do such a stupid thing. And since without a virus/trojan for the Mac, there's no way for that file to self-propagate.
I mean, is that something you do? Like, you receive a suspect e-mail with a suspect file that's named "MyPinkPlumPu**y.jpg .exe" and you forward that e-mail to your friends, complete with the attachment???
Originally posted by rawhead
I mean, is that something you do? Like, you receive a suspect e-mail with a suspect file that's named "Hey, take a look at this immediately, you'll luv it!!!!.jpg .exe" and you forward that e-mail to your friends, complete with the attachment??? [/B]
Quite often I'll get them forwarded to me by morons I know (mentioning no names). It's polite to tell them your virus checker caught it and would they please now check their PC and install a virus checker.
Sometimes, it works out well for me as I can sell them hosting with Spam Assassin and ClamAV built in already to solve their mail spam/virus problems. ;-)
Originally posted by Gene Clean
I call BS. Source?
Not only are they quickly updated (as aegisdesign said) but their code is free, so if the company/developer just doesn't update it anymore, the code is free and open for anyone to continue updating it.
Apple knows that, that's why they include ClamAV with their Server edition of Tiger.
I guess, by that metric, no open source application is good because they're less effective. Including, but not limited to, Linux. Just check Anandtech - he breaks it down quite nicely.
No, it's not BS. This evening, when I'll have the time, I'll try to link for you.
Originally posted by rawhead
Yeah, I get PC virus's every once in a while, too. The e-mail messages with the virus file, in those cases, go straight to the trash can to be immediately deleted permanently.
You don't provide an answer to the question I posed: under what kind of scenario would you, as a Mac user, pass that file on to your PC using friends and colleagues unless you are a complete moron?
Now, you might argue that anti-virus software for the Mac is good in that respect; i.e., moron-proof. And I might actually agree. But I think few, if any, people visiting these boards, myself included, will actively do such a stupid thing. And since without a virus/trojan for the Mac, there's no way for that file to self-propagate.
I mean, is that something you do? Like, you receive a suspect e-mail with a suspect file that's named "MyPinkPlumPu**y.jpg .exe" and you forward that e-mail to your friends, complete with the attachment???
E-mail is not the only way to get virus's. I've gotten virus's at my company in various files over the years. I've gotten them from customers giving me Quark files, PS files Excel files, etc. I get them at home from similar sources.
I've dragged images off pages from a site whiuch contained virus's.
Even packaged software, over the years, has contained virus's. This has included, Lotus, MS, Adobe, Apple, etc.
I even bought a Dell for my company (because we needed one Windows machine in the graphics dept. to properly open PP files) that came with a virus already installed!