I seriously challange everybody here to go out and run, or do a sport or something active. Bike, walk, run to work. Maybe you'll realize how wrapped up we are in technology to the exclusion of other things.
People do seem to whine excessively about how competing displays are brighter, but I wonder if that brightness comes at the expense of accuracy.
"Supposedly" it does come at the expense of color accuracy, but that shouldn't matter since ColorSync is so good.
What it does do though is wash out your blacks, so the darkest color on your screen is sort of a darkish-gray.
One company got around this by seperating the single backlight into many smaller backlights, and plans to charge $50,000 for it: http://brightsidetech.com/ (good luck to them)
"Supposedly" it does come at the expense of color accuracy, but that shouldn't matter since ColorSync is so good.
What it does do though is wash out your blacks, so the darkest color on your screen is sort of a darkish-gray.
Another impact is color temperature. Because of the properties of phosphorescent materials used in backlight bulbs, neutral bulbs aren't as brigth as non-neutral bulbs, so you can get something that's pretty out of wack. Calibration can mitigate it somewhat, but it can't eliminate the effect, and it reduces the dynamic range that the liquid crystals can operate in.
I personally would like to see a test that does compare calibrated display for calibrated display.
What I find is that the people that don't understand this sort of thing instantly assume that a brighter display gives a better picture, but that is a psychological illusion because brighter displays often push an excessive amount of blue, and it reduces color accuracy.
I really think that Apple at the end of this year will drop the prices on the Cinema Displays, because like many analyst have pointed out the technology will become a LOT cheaper by th end of this year.
From a Historical point (though some of this might be slightly off due to faulty memory) Apple will most likely wait untill the update of the PowerMac to release new monitors. I think there have been price drops on their monitor line without PowerMac updates but not new models released. Apple also tends to wait untill the release of new monitors for any price drops, though I believe there have been a few exceptions to this in the past. Also Historicaly Apple does not sell monitors for a price point below $499 (USD), so if the 17" monitor market drops below this look for Apple to drop the 17" model and stick with the 20" monitor for thier entry into displays. This may change with the Mac Mini, but if it does then do not look for Apple's low end offering to be price competative with the overall market, especially 6 months after its release when the market has diven 17" LCD monitor prices to the $200-$300 for a high end monitor.
Also I believe that one of the LDC manufacturers (Samsung?) has anounced a 65" monitor. This means that they have updated their manufacturing process to build larger pannels. Historically when manufacturers have done this there are price drops across the entire LCD size range as yields of smaller pannels increase from the larger LCD pannel being manufactured. I would expect that by the end of the year 15" LCD monitors and TV's will be almost non-existant and 20" LCD monitors will see decent price drop, probably moving them into the average consumer price range.
I just read this article and thought its was very interesting!
Quote:
Flat screen war heats up, LCD catching up.
By Rhee So-eui and Nathan Layne Thu Mar 2, 9:27 AM ET
HONG KONG (Reuters) - Consumers are cheering their good fortune, watching prices for big flat-screen TVs tumble while makers slug it out to decide which display standard will become dominant -- liquid crystal (LCD) or plasma.
With the price slide, demand is booming in the key battleground for TVs -- flat screens in the 40-44-inch range -- and analysts say makers of liquid crystal displays (LCD) will probably gain ground in a market that has been dominated by plasma displays (PDP).
"Plasma display makers will do their best to cut costs and fend them off, but LCD makers are investing aggressively to go after the big-inch TVs and should be able to grab a good slice of that market, especially at 40 inches and just above," Hisakazu Torii, director of TV market research at DisplaySearch.
Companies such as Japan's Matsushita Electric Industrial Co. Ltd. (6752.T) and
South Korea's LG Electronics Inc. (066570.KS) have preferred to use plasma screens for 40-inch or larger TV sets since they are easier to mass produce at larger sizes, giving plasma a cost advantage over LCDs.
Plasma TV sets use tiny pockets of gases to display images, while LCDs use crystals sandwiched between glass. LCDs last longer than plasma screens but are not as bright, while plasma has a wider viewing angle but consumes more power.
But prices for big LCD TVs will also come down sharply this year, as massive production ramp-ups are enabling LCD manufacturers to cut their own costs.
In 2005, the 40-inch LCD panel price dropped 36 percent, faster than a 31 percent fall for 42-inch plasma screens. DisplaySearch expects the panel prices to decline at a similar pace this year, with 40-inch LCDs and 42-inch plasmas both falling by about 25 percent.
"LCD panel prices will show a moderate fall in the first half on demand ahead of the World Cup soccer tournament, but the price fall will accelerate in the second half, given ramp-up plans at makers such as LG.Philips LCD Co. Ltd. (034220.KS) and Sharp Corp. (6753.T)," said Lee Min-hee, an analyst at CJ Investment & Securities.
One company that sells both standards, Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd.'s (005930.KS), currently prices its high-definition 42-inch plasma TV set around $2,600 while its 40-inch LCD TV set can be bought for less than $2,800.
"Anything 40-inch and above is still quite expensive for the consumers. We are making very active investments to bring the prices down," Chu Woosik, senior vice president for Samsung Electronics' investor relations, said at the Reuters Global Technology, Media and Telecoms Summit in Hong Kong.
DisplaySearch predicts LCD sets will account for 50 percent of the 40-44 inch flat TV market by 2009, compared with 6 percent in 2005, while plasma's share will fall to 49 percent in 2009 from 71 percent.
"We are still selling plasma, a few products, but our focus is purely on LCD," Fujio Nishida, Sony Corp (NYSE:SNE - news).'s (6758.T) European president, said at the Reuters summit in Paris. "The future is LCD. That's our decision."
However, plasma makers say their production cost-advantage and plasma's clearer images will give them a secure place in the fast-growing market. Makers such as Samsung SDI Co. (006400.KS), LG Electronics and Matsushita also plan heavy investments to add capacity, raising concerns among analysts about a potential glut.
"PDP makers have more room to cut prices by improving technology and saving material costs," Chris Kim, Samsung SDI's vice president of PDP sales and marketing, said at the Reuters Hong Kong summit.
OLED
The market itself is rapidly shifting, with manufacturers always looking ahead to bigger screens and better technology.
"Eventually PDP makers will have to move their focus to above 50-inch when LCDs catch up in the 40-inch level," said Michael Min, an analyst at Korea Investment & Securities.
In the race for an edge, panel makers are also investing in organic light emitting diode (OLED) display, viewed as a promising next-generation technology.
Self-luminous and paper-thin OLED screens produce brighter images, respond faster and consume less power. Makers expect OLED displays to replace LCDs on mobile phones starting next year and eventually to compete with LCD and plasma for the monitor and TV panel market.
U.S. researcher DisplaySearch expects the global OLED market to grow to $5.1 billion in 2009 from $518 million last year.
I'm still waiting for that Canon CRT/LCD hybrid display that has an individual phosphur tube for each pixel, thus having the footprint and lack of flicker of an LCD, with the color accuracy and high contrast of a CRT.
I'd pay more for an Apple display for a few reasons:
* Simplicity - I like the streamlined cabling.
* Features - FireWire ports on the display
* Quality - Usually top-notch screens.
" I like the streamlined cabling" I do not like the fact that is is not replacable, if the cable snags, the display is shot. A ~$20 DVI cable replacment is a lot easier to justify than a $1000+ display replacment, I also like having more than one input, I can sit down, plug in my laptop and work in spanning, or I can touch one btton and be back on the deskotp
"Features - FireWire ports on the display" Ummm you have FW on the front of the powermac tower...and the back, and hubs are cheap, a hell of a lot cheaper than the Dellv Apple price differance
"Usually top-notch screens" Having used the Dell and the Apple 20 inchers in the same store, meaning the same lighting and such I can tell you, there is no differance whatsoever, they are both sharp and briliant.
The only good thing about Apple is the bezle, best in industry, but hard to justify.
Comments
Originally posted by icfireball
I seriously challange everybody here to go out and run, or do a sport or something active. Bike, walk, run to work. Maybe you'll realize how wrapped up we are in technology to the exclusion of other things.
What is this "bike" you speak of?
Originally posted by icfireball
[Byou shouldn't spend extra money just for style or color.[/B]
I suppose that is why Lexus, Acura, BMW, Ferrari, etc. are out of business... Style is obviously unimportant to our lives.
Originally posted by JeffDM
People do seem to whine excessively about how competing displays are brighter, but I wonder if that brightness comes at the expense of accuracy.
"Supposedly" it does come at the expense of color accuracy, but that shouldn't matter since ColorSync is so good.
What it does do though is wash out your blacks, so the darkest color on your screen is sort of a darkish-gray.
One company got around this by seperating the single backlight into many smaller backlights, and plans to charge $50,000 for it: http://brightsidetech.com/ (good luck to them)
Originally posted by 4fx
I suppose that is why Lexus, Acura, BMW, Ferrari, etc. are out of business... Style is obviously unimportant to our lives.
Are you trying to argue that a Ford has better performance than a Ferrari?
Originally posted by mynamehere
What is this "bike" you speak of?
Originally posted by gregmightdothat
"Supposedly" it does come at the expense of color accuracy, but that shouldn't matter since ColorSync is so good.
What it does do though is wash out your blacks, so the darkest color on your screen is sort of a darkish-gray.
Another impact is color temperature. Because of the properties of phosphorescent materials used in backlight bulbs, neutral bulbs aren't as brigth as non-neutral bulbs, so you can get something that's pretty out of wack. Calibration can mitigate it somewhat, but it can't eliminate the effect, and it reduces the dynamic range that the liquid crystals can operate in.
I personally would like to see a test that does compare calibrated display for calibrated display.
What I find is that the people that don't understand this sort of thing instantly assume that a brighter display gives a better picture, but that is a psychological illusion because brighter displays often push an excessive amount of blue, and it reduces color accuracy.
Quote:
Apple:
Drops prices for the Cinema Displays...
20-inch -> $499
23-inch -> $999
30-inch -> $1999
new 36/40-inch display -> $2499(/$2999?)
I really think that Apple at the end of this year will drop the prices on the Cinema Displays, because like many analyst have pointed out the technology will become a LOT cheaper by th end of this year.
Anyways that my 2cents.
Also I believe that one of the LDC manufacturers (Samsung?) has anounced a 65" monitor. This means that they have updated their manufacturing process to build larger pannels. Historically when manufacturers have done this there are price drops across the entire LCD size range as yields of smaller pannels increase from the larger LCD pannel being manufactured. I would expect that by the end of the year 15" LCD monitors and TV's will be almost non-existant and 20" LCD monitors will see decent price drop, probably moving them into the average consumer price range.
Originally posted by gregmightdothat
Or that you look at a computer screen 8 hours a day, and have something called taste.
I don't really stare at my screen's bezel for extended periods of time.
Flat screen war heats up, LCD catching up.
By Rhee So-eui and Nathan Layne Thu Mar 2, 9:27 AM ET
HONG KONG (Reuters) - Consumers are cheering their good fortune, watching prices for big flat-screen TVs tumble while makers slug it out to decide which display standard will become dominant -- liquid crystal (LCD) or plasma.
With the price slide, demand is booming in the key battleground for TVs -- flat screens in the 40-44-inch range -- and analysts say makers of liquid crystal displays (LCD) will probably gain ground in a market that has been dominated by plasma displays (PDP).
"Plasma display makers will do their best to cut costs and fend them off, but LCD makers are investing aggressively to go after the big-inch TVs and should be able to grab a good slice of that market, especially at 40 inches and just above," Hisakazu Torii, director of TV market research at DisplaySearch.
Companies such as Japan's Matsushita Electric Industrial Co. Ltd. (6752.T) and
South Korea's LG Electronics Inc. (066570.KS) have preferred to use plasma screens for 40-inch or larger TV sets since they are easier to mass produce at larger sizes, giving plasma a cost advantage over LCDs.
Plasma TV sets use tiny pockets of gases to display images, while LCDs use crystals sandwiched between glass. LCDs last longer than plasma screens but are not as bright, while plasma has a wider viewing angle but consumes more power.
But prices for big LCD TVs will also come down sharply this year, as massive production ramp-ups are enabling LCD manufacturers to cut their own costs.
In 2005, the 40-inch LCD panel price dropped 36 percent, faster than a 31 percent fall for 42-inch plasma screens. DisplaySearch expects the panel prices to decline at a similar pace this year, with 40-inch LCDs and 42-inch plasmas both falling by about 25 percent.
"LCD panel prices will show a moderate fall in the first half on demand ahead of the World Cup soccer tournament, but the price fall will accelerate in the second half, given ramp-up plans at makers such as LG.Philips LCD Co. Ltd. (034220.KS) and Sharp Corp. (6753.T)," said Lee Min-hee, an analyst at CJ Investment & Securities.
One company that sells both standards, Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd.'s (005930.KS), currently prices its high-definition 42-inch plasma TV set around $2,600 while its 40-inch LCD TV set can be bought for less than $2,800.
"Anything 40-inch and above is still quite expensive for the consumers. We are making very active investments to bring the prices down," Chu Woosik, senior vice president for Samsung Electronics' investor relations, said at the Reuters Global Technology, Media and Telecoms Summit in Hong Kong.
DisplaySearch predicts LCD sets will account for 50 percent of the 40-44 inch flat TV market by 2009, compared with 6 percent in 2005, while plasma's share will fall to 49 percent in 2009 from 71 percent.
"We are still selling plasma, a few products, but our focus is purely on LCD," Fujio Nishida, Sony Corp (NYSE:SNE - news).'s (6758.T) European president, said at the Reuters summit in Paris. "The future is LCD. That's our decision."
However, plasma makers say their production cost-advantage and plasma's clearer images will give them a secure place in the fast-growing market. Makers such as Samsung SDI Co. (006400.KS), LG Electronics and Matsushita also plan heavy investments to add capacity, raising concerns among analysts about a potential glut.
"PDP makers have more room to cut prices by improving technology and saving material costs," Chris Kim, Samsung SDI's vice president of PDP sales and marketing, said at the Reuters Hong Kong summit.
OLED
The market itself is rapidly shifting, with manufacturers always looking ahead to bigger screens and better technology.
"Eventually PDP makers will have to move their focus to above 50-inch when LCDs catch up in the 40-inch level," said Michael Min, an analyst at Korea Investment & Securities.
In the race for an edge, panel makers are also investing in organic light emitting diode (OLED) display, viewed as a promising next-generation technology.
Self-luminous and paper-thin OLED screens produce brighter images, respond faster and consume less power. Makers expect OLED displays to replace LCDs on mobile phones starting next year and eventually to compete with LCD and plasma for the monitor and TV panel market.
U.S. researcher DisplaySearch expects the global OLED market to grow to $5.1 billion in 2009 from $518 million last year.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/summit_di...NlYwN5bmNhdA--
Originally posted by Xool
I'd pay more for an Apple display for a few reasons:
* Simplicity - I like the streamlined cabling.
* Features - FireWire ports on the display
* Quality - Usually top-notch screens.
" I like the streamlined cabling" I do not like the fact that is is not replacable, if the cable snags, the display is shot. A ~$20 DVI cable replacment is a lot easier to justify than a $1000+ display replacment, I also like having more than one input, I can sit down, plug in my laptop and work in spanning, or I can touch one btton and be back on the deskotp
"Features - FireWire ports on the display" Ummm you have FW on the front of the powermac tower...and the back, and hubs are cheap, a hell of a lot cheaper than the Dellv Apple price differance
"Usually top-notch screens" Having used the Dell and the Apple 20 inchers in the same store, meaning the same lighting and such I can tell you, there is no differance whatsoever, they are both sharp and briliant.
The only good thing about Apple is the bezle, best in industry, but hard to justify.
Originally posted by gregmightdothat
Or that you look at a computer screen 8 hours a day, and have something called taste.
Ummmm...12+ here and a cinema display aint in my future at these prices.