Merom in MacBook Pro
I need to buy a computer for 4 years of school starting next September but I will be willing to wait a littler longer. I will hopefully be switching from windows to mac. However, I believe that if I buy the current MacBook Pro because it is 32 bit, it will become "obsolete" fairly soon and will not run OS 10.5 as well as it could. I have heard that Merom has been pushed back to Q4 and even as late as March 2007! When do you guys believe Merom will debut and will the Core Duo MacBook Pro be "obsolete" soon?
Thank you for your time,
Ukieboarder
P.S. Should I maybe get an Intel Macbook and ride it out for 2 years then get a Merom notebook.
Thank you for your time,
Ukieboarder
P.S. Should I maybe get an Intel Macbook and ride it out for 2 years then get a Merom notebook.
Comments
Originally posted by ukieboarder
I need to buy a computer for 4 years of school starting next September but I will be willing to wait a littler longer. I will hopefully be switching from windows to mac. However, I believe that if I buy the current MacBook Pro because it is 32 bit, it will become "obsolete" fairly soon and will not run OS 10.5 as well as it could. I have heard that Merom has been pushed back to Q4 and even as late as March 2007! When do you guys believe Merom will debut and will the Core Duo MacBook Pro be "obsolete" soon?
Thank you for your time,
Ukieboarder
P.S. Should I maybe get an Intel Macbook and ride it out for 2 years then get a Merom notebook.
Ha! Believe me, if you buy a mac right now, 4-8 years from now it will still be running as a FANTASTIC personal computer, I've found that most Mac users don't feel the need to throw out their computers nearly as soon as Windows users tend to, and as for Linux users, well, that's where the old computers of you Windows users who throw out your computer thinking your HARDWARE is slow go
Other than that, I suspect the real improvements with Merom will be further refinements; more computing power per cycle, better battery life, and so on. I don't think it is nearly as revolutionary a change relative to the current Core Duo as the Core Duo is relative to the G4.
Having said that, you should wait to buy until you actually need the computer. That way, you will benefit from at least one of three things in this particular case; a lower price, a better selection of configurations (you might find you want a 17 inch, or that an Intel iBook does the trick), and the incremental improvements that will surely come with Merom.
Originally posted by photoeditor
For my taste a 32 versus 64 bit choice would normally depend on how much memory you're likely to need. The Macbook should theoretically support 4GB (though there's still no such thing as a 2GB SO-DIMM module) if it adheres to Intel's Centrino spec overall, but I'm pretty sure that Mac OS X in its 32-bit form is limited to 2GB per application. As for a Merom book, it will be limited in practice by the number of slots, which would probably still be two, so in practice I don't think the memory issue is a big one for a laptop.
Other than that, I suspect the real improvements with Merom will be further refinements; more computing power per cycle, better battery life, and so on. I don't think it is nearly as revolutionary a change relative to the current Core Duo as the Core Duo is relative to the G4.
Having said that, you should wait to buy until you actually need the computer. That way, you will benefit from at least one of three things in this particular case; a lower price, a better selection of configurations (you might find you want a 17 inch, or that an Intel iBook does the trick), and the incremental improvements that will surely come with Merom.
But isn't OS 10.5 supposed to be 64 bit?
The other thing to note is that 64 bit in terms of speed is not a huge boost. Somewhat of a boost for heavy duty software, but not spectacular even there.
A useful primer on how 64 bit works with a very demanding application -- Stata -- is available here.
http://www.stata.com/support/faqs/win/64bit2.html
You'll see that the two speed benchmarks given here show a ten to 20 percent increase in speed. You'll also note as you read down that some processes actually slow down. The big difference with 64 bit is the ability to address more memory.
Additionally you may have noticed that a few features that used to be in the PowerBook have been removed for the MacBook (double layer 8X superdrive and firewire 800), I'm expecting these to come back by the time of the Merom model.
Originally posted by ukieboarder
But isn't OS 10.5 supposed to be 64 bit?
Remember Tiger is 64bit for PPC but it runs on G3's and G4's, which are 32bit. Apple will just allow developers to create mega-fat binaries: 32bit PPC, 64bit PPC, 32bit x86, 64bit x86_64/EMT64 (or what ever you want to call it). Also unless 10.5 changes the way 10.4 works with 64bit, it would be just server/behind the scenes code not UI code that runs 64bit. My guess you would have to wait for 2 versions after 10.5 before your new Mac would be in need of an upgrade, and that is being conservative.
I am not so sure about expanded flash support. Certainly I doubt we're anywhere near to having solid state technology replace the hard drive.
A DL 8x DVD burner will go in once they are available for 9.5 mm enclosures this summer. With the thinner base Apple have had to drop down to 9.5 from 12 mm for the optical drive; so far that limits the choice to 4x.
I doubt we'll see FireWire 800 back. It is a niche format, and as far as I know it isn't even supported by the Intel chipset on the motherboard. I think Apple's choice of ExpressCard 34 rather than 54 has something to do with this; Apple apparently views that socket as a general purpose broadband port rather than something for extra storage like flash or microdrive; so we'll see FireWire 800 and SATA cards for that socket. Personally, I think external SATA will finish off FireWire 800.
Then in March 2007 (or later), the Santa Rosa platform (Crestline northbridge) should ship which would give Merom 800 MHz FSB and 802.11n wireless support. I'm sure there will be other goodies (wireless USB? new powermanagement? etc). Who knows.
So, if Apple announces in early October, you'll maybe get your Merom MBP in your hands by Thanksgiving.
Originally posted by THT
October 2006 is when Merom is currently slated to debut on the Napa64 platform. The Napa64 chipset is most likely a minimal change to the current Napa platform ships with Yonah: 667 MHz FSB, 802.11a/b/g.
Then in March 2007 (or later), the Santa Rosa platform (Crestline northbridge) should ship which would give Merom 800 MHz FSB and 802.11n wireless support. I'm sure there will be other goodies (wireless USB? new powermanagement? etc). Who knows.
So, if Apple announces in early October, you'll maybe get your Merom MBP in your hands by Thanksgiving.
I was wondering if you knew anything about the anticipated performance specs for merom? I thought that I read somewhere that it will be about 30% faster clock for clock than yonah and the speeds will not be that much faster. I'm wondering if it is worth waiting for. Core duo doesn't look too bad to me.
Originally posted by ukieboarder
But isn't OS 10.5 supposed to be 64 bit?
No
Originally posted by wgauvin
Remember Tiger is 64bit
And no.
Originally posted by T'hain Esh Kelch
No
And no.
T'hain Esh Kelch = misleading, and incomplete in iraqi.
64-Bit Tiger, and 64-Bit G5 reading
Originally by Apple Computer
Mac OS X Tiger delivers the power of 64-bit computing to your Mac. Build and run a new generation of 64-bit applications that address massive amounts of memory, without compromising the performance of your existing 32-bit applications.
Tiger ships with 64-bit ready Xcode development tools, so you can take full advantage of the Tiger?s enhanced 64-bit capabilities right out of the box. Tiger?s new 64-bit pointers enable individual processes to access massive amounts of virtual memory. The enhanced kernel, plus a 64-bit version of libSystem, let command-line programs, background daemons and network services directly manipulate up to 16 exabytes of virtual memory, more than four billion times the memory addressable by today?s 32-bit applications.
Tiger supports the industry standard LP64 programming model supported by other 64-bit Unix systems. This means developers can easily port 64-bit code to Tiger. LP64 support in Tiger provides for 64-bit pointer, long and long long but preserves 32-bit integer data types.
Originally posted by onlooker
T'hain Esh Kelch = misleading, and incomplete in iraqi.
64-Bit Tiger, and 64-Bit G5 reading
That doesnt mean OSX is 64 bit.
Originally posted by backtomac
I'm wondering if it is worth waiting for. Core duo doesn't look too bad to me.
I was on the same fence, considering waiting for Merom books, 1) for better CPU, 2) more native Intel apps, and 3) general debugging of architecture switch with Yonah products.
But then impatience got the best of me, and by the following logic, I'm fairly confident I won't be unhappy (unless Macbooks turn out to be bug-prone disasters):
1) I want a faster laptop now, not in 9-12 months.
2) With it's current performance profile, the Macbooks should be worthy machines for 1-2 years.
3) When Merom does come out, I can resell my Yonah book and upgrade. Unless they are lemons, I'm guessing the Macbooks will still have decent resale value in a year. ie: At least 50% of original sale price.
Originally posted by T'hain Esh Kelch
That doesnt mean OSX is 64 bit.
Key being, supporting 64-bit apps vs OS X code (itself) being all 64-bit.
In that context, does anyone know how much of OS X/Finder is Universal (Intel native), if any? The early benchmarks suggest net UI performance comparable to older G4 PBs, suggesting UI toolbox is running on Rosetta? Or not?
or is this coming with lepord?
Originally posted by backtomac
I was wondering if you knew anything about the anticipated performance specs for merom? I thought that I read somewhere that it will be about 30% faster clock for clock than yonah and the speeds will not be that much faster. I'm wondering if it is worth waiting for. Core duo doesn't look too bad to me.
What you read is about all anyone knows, and it ain't much: 14 stage pipeline, 4 issue-wide, better memory performance equating to 30% faster clock-for-clock than Yonah in a 35 W TDP package. It'll likely have better power usage than Yonah even though it has higher TDP due to better power modes: lower average power, lower idle power, lower sleep.
If I had to bet, 10% on integer, 20% on FPU, and 20% on SIMD at the same clock. If in 64-bit mode, 8 more registers are available, and there would be some non-trivial performance increase due to the additional registers alone, around 5 to 10%, maybe. If it is truly 30% faster clock-for-clock than Yonah in all aspects, then it would be an astounding architecture improvement. A 2 GHz Merom would be equivalent to a 2.66 GHz Yonah. That's just too good believe and I doubt it's going to happen. In FPU, definitely possible, a fully pipelined FMADD could just about do it, but Integer, difficult to believe.
If you can wait, wait 2 weeks for the Spring Intel Developer Forum starting March 7. We will likely know more then.
Originally posted by Elixir
is the current OSX fully optimized for duel core processing?
or is this coming with lepord?
I was wondering the same thing. It may have some optimization for running on dual processor Power Mac's, but I don't know if that has any correlation as far as the dual core...
Originally posted by THT
October 2006 is when Merom is currently slated to debut on the Napa64 platform. The Napa64 chipset is most likely a minimal change to the current Napa platform ships with Yonah: 667 MHz FSB, 802.11a/b/g.
Then in March 2007 (or later), the Santa Rosa platform (Crestline northbridge) should ship which would give Merom 800 MHz FSB and 802.11n wireless support. I'm sure there will be other goodies (wireless USB? new powermanagement? etc). Who knows.
So, if Apple announces in early October, you'll maybe get your Merom MBP in your hands by Thanksgiving.
So I could get a Merom MacBook Pro in November and it will last me longer than Yonah but then in March a better one will come out? And couldn't I get 802.11n wireless later because Apple has their own aiport cards and I could upgrade mine. And will it being 64 bit extend the life of it by a lot?
A more important question, more important than 64 bit, is if and when applications will be optimally optimized, ie, multithreaded, to take advantage of all the multi-core CPUs and multi-CPU systems that are going to be available. As it is now, only a few applications are nicely suited or designed for multi-core/CPU, and you won't in general see huge performance gains across your usage, just on a select few applications.
This has been true for a very long time. The dual-core CPU or dual-CPU system does make for a smooth system though. Much nicer user experience than single-core or single CPU systems. With the MBP, one can view 1080p H.264 HD video at full frame rate! Or use Aperture! If Apple stuck with IBM or Freescale, you wouldn't be able to do that until at least 2H 06. That's assuming a 2 GHz 970mx or 2 GHz 8641D would be available and be suited for laptops, a big assumption.