You know, I'm really damned amused by this. I saw *NOTHING* on that video that I couldn't do with my Newton 8 years ago. Nothing.
But people bitched about the Newton because it was...
- too big (wow, I really like the big size of the Origami!)
- too expensive (man, I'd pay more for that...)
Hell, did anyone even notice any example of demoed handwriting recog on that video? I didn't.
Lame, lame, lame.
So yes, you're right... Apple could do something like that. They *DID*.
Well, depending upon what it is, it could be a small-scale full-functioning Windows XP box. The Newton, as a PDA, was entirely too big. As a computer, it was too PDA-like and, frankly, too ahread of its time.
Well, depending upon what it is, it could be a small-scale full-functioning Windows XP box. The Newton, as a PDA, was entirely too big. As a computer, it was too PDA-like and, frankly, too ahread of its time.
Apparently about eight years.
Okay, so assume this thing is a full-fledged WinXP unit. Have you ever used a Tablet PC? They *bite*. The UI is just horrible. The handwriting recog integration is pathetic.
Now make the screen tiny, with all the pixel real estate that XP eats up for no good reason, and... oy. I can't imagine how it would be usable for anything other than what they showed in the promo - jot a note, send email, go to a web page.
Y'know, what most PDAs can do. :P
Also, aren't there small-scale full-functioning Linux handhelds out there already?
And ye gods, that *form factor*. Ick. Why on earth do you need all the D-pad buttons on the sides if the pen UI is decently done? You don't. Ick, ick, ick.
Okay, so assume this thing is a full-fledged WinXP unit. Have you ever used a Tablet PC? They *bite*. The UI is just horrible. The handwriting recog integration is pathetic.
Now make the screen tiny, with all the pixel real estate that XP eats up for no good reason, and... oy. I can't imagine how it would be usable for anything other than what they showed in the promo - jot a note, send email, go to a web page.
Y'know, what most PDAs can do. :P
Also, aren't there small-scale full-functioning Linux handhelds out there already?
And ye gods, that *form factor*. Ick. Why on earth do you need all the D-pad buttons on the sides if the pen UI is decently done? You don't. Ick, ick, ick.
The last tablet I used was cool as hell. Handwriting recognition was amazing, even with my chicken scratch.
I would like something with an 8" or so screen. I'd like it to be a fully functioning computer?if I need it to be?but to mostly do what I need on my laptop: web, email, chat, and write stuff in Word. I don't want some hacked version of Word. I want the real deal.
And yeah. Sometimes, I miss my Newton 2100 so badly I drool over the units at gem enterprises.
The last tablet I used was cool as hell. Handwriting recognition was amazing, even with my chicken scratch.
It's not the recognition, that's the easy part. It's the integration that is awful. "Pop up a text input window. Write. Hit the button to convert. Hit the button to copy into the buffer. Go to where you want it to be. Paste." *twitch* Why not just do what the Newton did, or hell, Ink does now, and allow write-anywhere with auto-entry where the insertion caret is??
Bleah. Windows' pen integration is awful, no two ways about it. I didn't see anything on that promo that indicated it had gotten any better - it was total fluff.
Quote:
I would like something with an 8" or so screen. I'd like it to be a fully functioning computer?if I need it to be?but to mostly do what I need on my laptop: web, email, chat, and write stuff in Word. I don't want some hacked version of Word. I want the real deal.
Bingo. But MS ain't offering it, and I don't see them fixing that with this new version of their, er, 'vision'. XP isn't geared for it, and the pen integration is an afterthought.
Heck, I worked for two months on a Mac with a tablet instead of a mouse and keyboard, when recovering from arm surgery. It was perfectly doable. I then tried a Tablet PC for a while, and found it to be almost a joke in comparison.
Apple's unadvertised, buried technology works better than MS's song-and-dance.
Quote:
And yeah. Sometimes, I miss my Newton 2100 so badly I drool over the units at gem enterprises.
I sold my whole kit a few years ago...everything. 2100, modem, cards, wireless, keyboard. Went PDA-less for a while. Then a cheapie Clie. Then an iPaq.
I have a Palm T5 now. Other than the lack of voice recording and the inability to rotate the screen any way I like, it's pretty slick.
But if it's the same hacked up pen input (and it looks like it is from the text 'input box'), then it's not going to be any more usable than a Tablet PC, and I'll bet you that the most common usage will be with a keyboard attached most of the time to make up for the poor pen integration.
Which kind of kills the entire form factor premise.
So we managed to get our hands on an Samsung Q1 / Origami device set to roll tomorrow here at CeBIT. Don't ask how, but it'll be awhile before we recover from the brutal caning we just received. From the five minutes we spent with it we can tell you, well, it?s an XP Tablet PC with a 7-inch display. Sorry, that?s about it, nothing earth-shattering here folks. In fact, for all the hype, it?s hard to find anything revolutionary or even evolutionary in the hardware specs or loaded software (perhaps that will come when the price is announced). Sure, Samsung did call it a prototype unit, but the final prototype prior to manufacture won't see much changed other than a "brighter TFT LCD" we were told.
Now, beyond what we saw earlier today, Samsung will release their UMPC / Origami device with optional GPS and DVB-T mobile digital TV expansion modules, as well as WiBRO support for when that goes live in Korea around June. The version we grabbed, the Q1, also supports Bluetooth 2.0 with A2DP and sports a 30GB hard disk. Unfortunately the whole thing just felt wrong in the hands ? very plasticy and without substance. Take a look for yourselves after the break, we've got tons more shots.
I'm still trying to see what MS had to put into this 'project'. If it's just TabletPC XP, then... what... new screen size? Ooooooooh. New mobo drivers? Feh.
Looks like the hardware manufacturers did all the work... or was that Intel?
In any case, TabletPC + 900MHz Celeron isn't exactly what I'd call revolutionary, y'know? To think that 8+ years ago I bought a 217MHz StrongARM Newton, and this is all the further MS can push it in that time. Wow.
Unless they pull more rabbits out of their hat tomorrow, this has got to go up there with MS Bob for lack of impressive.
I'm still trying to see what MS had to put into this 'project'. If it's just TabletPC XP, then... what... new screen size? Ooooooooh. New mobo drivers? Feh.
Looks like the hardware manufacturers did all the work... or was that Intel?
In any case, TabletPC + 900MHz Celeron isn't exactly what I'd call revolutionary, y'know? To think that 8+ years ago I bought a 217MHz StrongARM Newton, and this is all the further MS can push it in that time. Wow.
Unless they pull more rabbits out of their hat tomorrow, this has got to go up there with MS Bob for lack of impressive.
Isn´t the basic strategy wrong? The Newton OS was build from the ground up to be used for a pen computer. The MS strategy is to take their normal OS and hack some pen computer tools into it.
Exactly. Everything on TablePC XP is just... hacked on. The pen integration is poor, the inclusion of text from the handwriting recog is klunky... it just *feels* like a toy slapped on top of XP. Which it pretty much is.
I guess if you've never used anything else, you'd think it was the bee's knees, but frankly, it's pretty lousy.
What's sad is that Ink on MacOS X has better integration, and it's not even touted as its own product!
A half sized tablet PC in half a dozen really really ugly (except the Samsung, which looks OK) form factors.
Oh, and that promo video? No so much. The Samsung doesn't have built in WiFi, and digital TV requires an alarmingly cantilevered USB stick with a cable plugged into the end of it.
And the Samsung comes in at $1,200, so hardly a mass market toy.
All that for a device only slightly smaller than an iBook (or many a small PC notebook), that costs as much, that requires you to carry around a separate keyboard if you plan to do much typing.
Yes, it's touch sensitive and has writing recognition, but by the time you get up to this size why is that so much better than a keyboard, again?
Sure, certain vertically integrated markets like health care. But the "new on the go digital lifestyle"?
I honestly can't see how this improves on a small notebook.
Comments
Originally posted by Kickaha
You know, I'm really damned amused by this. I saw *NOTHING* on that video that I couldn't do with my Newton 8 years ago. Nothing.
But people bitched about the Newton because it was...
- too big (wow, I really like the big size of the Origami!)
- too expensive (man, I'd pay more for that...)
Hell, did anyone even notice any example of demoed handwriting recog on that video? I didn't.
Lame, lame, lame.
So yes, you're right... Apple could do something like that. They *DID*.
Well, depending upon what it is, it could be a small-scale full-functioning Windows XP box. The Newton, as a PDA, was entirely too big. As a computer, it was too PDA-like and, frankly, too ahread of its time.
Originally posted by midwinter
Well, depending upon what it is, it could be a small-scale full-functioning Windows XP box. The Newton, as a PDA, was entirely too big. As a computer, it was too PDA-like and, frankly, too ahread of its time.
Apparently about eight years.
Okay, so assume this thing is a full-fledged WinXP unit. Have you ever used a Tablet PC? They *bite*. The UI is just horrible. The handwriting recog integration is pathetic.
Now make the screen tiny, with all the pixel real estate that XP eats up for no good reason, and... oy. I can't imagine how it would be usable for anything other than what they showed in the promo - jot a note, send email, go to a web page.
Y'know, what most PDAs can do. :P
Also, aren't there small-scale full-functioning Linux handhelds out there already?
And ye gods, that *form factor*. Ick. Why on earth do you need all the D-pad buttons on the sides if the pen UI is decently done? You don't. Ick, ick, ick.
Originally posted by Kickaha
Apparently about eight years.
Okay, so assume this thing is a full-fledged WinXP unit. Have you ever used a Tablet PC? They *bite*. The UI is just horrible. The handwriting recog integration is pathetic.
Now make the screen tiny, with all the pixel real estate that XP eats up for no good reason, and... oy. I can't imagine how it would be usable for anything other than what they showed in the promo - jot a note, send email, go to a web page.
Y'know, what most PDAs can do. :P
Also, aren't there small-scale full-functioning Linux handhelds out there already?
And ye gods, that *form factor*. Ick. Why on earth do you need all the D-pad buttons on the sides if the pen UI is decently done? You don't. Ick, ick, ick.
The last tablet I used was cool as hell. Handwriting recognition was amazing, even with my chicken scratch.
I would like something with an 8" or so screen. I'd like it to be a fully functioning computer?if I need it to be?but to mostly do what I need on my laptop: web, email, chat, and write stuff in Word. I don't want some hacked version of Word. I want the real deal.
And yeah. Sometimes, I miss my Newton 2100 so badly I drool over the units at gem enterprises.
Originally posted by midwinter
The last tablet I used was cool as hell. Handwriting recognition was amazing, even with my chicken scratch.
It's not the recognition, that's the easy part. It's the integration that is awful. "Pop up a text input window. Write. Hit the button to convert. Hit the button to copy into the buffer. Go to where you want it to be. Paste." *twitch* Why not just do what the Newton did, or hell, Ink does now, and allow write-anywhere with auto-entry where the insertion caret is??
Bleah. Windows' pen integration is awful, no two ways about it. I didn't see anything on that promo that indicated it had gotten any better - it was total fluff.
I would like something with an 8" or so screen. I'd like it to be a fully functioning computer?if I need it to be?but to mostly do what I need on my laptop: web, email, chat, and write stuff in Word. I don't want some hacked version of Word. I want the real deal.
Bingo. But MS ain't offering it, and I don't see them fixing that with this new version of their, er, 'vision'. XP isn't geared for it, and the pen integration is an afterthought.
Heck, I worked for two months on a Mac with a tablet instead of a mouse and keyboard, when recovering from arm surgery. It was perfectly doable. I then tried a Tablet PC for a while, and found it to be almost a joke in comparison.
Apple's unadvertised, buried technology works better than MS's song-and-dance.
And yeah. Sometimes, I miss my Newton 2100 so badly I drool over the units at gem enterprises.
I'm so glad I still have one.
Originally posted by Kickaha
I'm so glad I still have one.
I sold my whole kit a few years ago...everything. 2100, modem, cards, wireless, keyboard. Went PDA-less for a while. Then a cheapie Clie. Then an iPaq.
I have a Palm T5 now. Other than the lack of voice recording and the inability to rotate the screen any way I like, it's pretty slick.
Photo 2
But if it's the same hacked up pen input (and it looks like it is from the text 'input box'), then it's not going to be any more usable than a Tablet PC, and I'll bet you that the most common usage will be with a keyboard attached most of the time to make up for the poor pen integration.
Which kind of kills the entire form factor premise.
So we managed to get our hands on an Samsung Q1 / Origami device set to roll tomorrow here at CeBIT. Don't ask how, but it'll be awhile before we recover from the brutal caning we just received. From the five minutes we spent with it we can tell you, well, it?s an XP Tablet PC with a 7-inch display. Sorry, that?s about it, nothing earth-shattering here folks. In fact, for all the hype, it?s hard to find anything revolutionary or even evolutionary in the hardware specs or loaded software (perhaps that will come when the price is announced). Sure, Samsung did call it a prototype unit, but the final prototype prior to manufacture won't see much changed other than a "brighter TFT LCD" we were told.
Now, beyond what we saw earlier today, Samsung will release their UMPC / Origami device with optional GPS and DVB-T mobile digital TV expansion modules, as well as WiBRO support for when that goes live in Korea around June. The version we grabbed, the Q1, also supports Bluetooth 2.0 with A2DP and sports a 30GB hard disk. Unfortunately the whole thing just felt wrong in the hands ? very plasticy and without substance. Take a look for yourselves after the break, we've got tons more shots.
--B
I'm still trying to see what MS had to put into this 'project'. If it's just TabletPC XP, then... what... new screen size? Ooooooooh. New mobo drivers? Feh.
Looks like the hardware manufacturers did all the work... or was that Intel?
In any case, TabletPC + 900MHz Celeron isn't exactly what I'd call revolutionary, y'know? To think that 8+ years ago I bought a 217MHz StrongARM Newton, and this is all the further MS can push it in that time. Wow.
Unless they pull more rabbits out of their hat tomorrow, this has got to go up there with MS Bob for lack of impressive.
Originally posted by Kickaha
Seriously.
I'm still trying to see what MS had to put into this 'project'. If it's just TabletPC XP, then... what... new screen size? Ooooooooh. New mobo drivers? Feh.
Looks like the hardware manufacturers did all the work... or was that Intel?
In any case, TabletPC + 900MHz Celeron isn't exactly what I'd call revolutionary, y'know? To think that 8+ years ago I bought a 217MHz StrongARM Newton, and this is all the further MS can push it in that time. Wow.
Unless they pull more rabbits out of their hat tomorrow, this has got to go up there with MS Bob for lack of impressive.
Isn´t the basic strategy wrong? The Newton OS was build from the ground up to be used for a pen computer. The MS strategy is to take their normal OS and hack some pen computer tools into it.
I guess if you've never used anything else, you'd think it was the bee's knees, but frankly, it's pretty lousy.
What's sad is that Ink on MacOS X has better integration, and it's not even touted as its own product!
Originally posted by Kickaha
What's sad is that Ink on MacOS X has better integration, and it's not even touted as its own product!
I've used Ink and I'm glad its not ready to be touted as its own product.
I doubt M$'s solutions are ready for prime time either, but I haven't used them so I can't really say.
Originally posted by Xool
I've used Ink and I'm glad its not ready to be touted as its own product.
Ink's pretty crap, isn't it?
http://news.zdnet.com/2300-9584_22-6047702-1.html
A half sized tablet PC in half a dozen really really ugly (except the Samsung, which looks OK) form factors.
Oh, and that promo video? No so much. The Samsung doesn't have built in WiFi, and digital TV requires an alarmingly cantilevered USB stick with a cable plugged into the end of it.
And the Samsung comes in at $1,200, so hardly a mass market toy.
All that for a device only slightly smaller than an iBook (or many a small PC notebook), that costs as much, that requires you to carry around a separate keyboard if you plan to do much typing.
Yes, it's touch sensitive and has writing recognition, but by the time you get up to this size why is that so much better than a keyboard, again?
Sure, certain vertically integrated markets like health care. But the "new on the go digital lifestyle"?
I honestly can't see how this improves on a small notebook.