Historically Apple users have paid more for Apple products. Why wouldn't they pay more for an iPhone, provided it is actually different and better than what's out there? I hate my current cell phone, I certainly would look at an iPhone. I'm not advocating that they become a carrier, just that they make the phone for other carriers.
IMO, the cell phone industry is a mature business with nothing but 'me to' products. Eventually somebody will take some risk and try to offer something different in order to differntiate themselves from their competitors. Who knows, maybe the time is now. My 2 cents.
Agreed.
But when various parties say "Apple cell phone" I think they are talking about different things. .
The easiest and most likely IMO is for Apple to make a straight ahead, carrier linked handset, just with some Apple design mojo and a better interface.
But, that means no iTunes functionality or ties to Apple services. Why? Because the carriers won't carry it if it enables users to bypass the services offered by those carriers (Motorola iTune phones too crippled to count), and which are enormously profitable to those carriers, and for which they have plans for world domination.
But it is exactly some kind of iPod/phone/PDA uber thing that integrates seamlessly with your Mac that many are clamoring for, and which is the thing that I think is highly unlikely, for all the reasons I've gone into.
So, again: Simple handset with Apple interface and case design: sure, why not?
Paradigm busting extension of Apple integration into cell phone space: no way.
But, that means no iTunes functionality or ties to Apple services. Why? Because the carriers won't carry it if it enables users to bypass the services offered by those carriers (Motorola iTune phones too crippled to count), and which are enormously profitable to those carriers, and for which they have plans for world domination.
Maybe Apple would be willing to share some of this revenue with a partner. Granted, margins on iTunes sales of songs is small but it still maybe worth it to apple if it leads to handset sales and more attention to the Apple brand and Mac platform. Carrier may benefit from getting more subscribers.
I've been waiting SO long for Apple to introduce it's iPhone.... In fact I've held off buying a phone ever since I saw that Apple registered the iphone.org domain name back in 1999. So come on Apple release the iPhone already, I've got a TON of calls I gotta make and I ain't getting any younger!!!
Dave
You haven't bought a mobile phone is six years because Apple registered a domain name? Hyperbole alert!
Maybe Apple would be willing to share some of this revenue with a partner. Granted, margins on iTunes sales of songs is small but it still maybe worth it to apple if it leads to handset sales and more attention to the Apple brand and Mac platform. Carrier may benefit from getting more subscribers.
The major carriers are busy building out their music stores and video services. I honestly don't think they're interested in revenue sharing, because they figure with a huge installed user base and "always on", ubiquitous player, they're in the driver's seat. Verizon makes a shit load of money with its "wall garden" suite of downloads and services, why would they want to take a smaller slice of somebody else's pie when they're feasting own their own?
Which is why I say that Apple might have a shot with a small carrier who would perceive iTunes branding as a competitive edge, so that the revenue loss from sharing the download and services biz is offset by increased subscription.
Trouble with that scenario, Apple is linked to a small carrier, with all that implies in regards to coverage, service, etc.
I still say unlocked phones are the way to go. Even if Apple has to make separate GSM, CDMA, and TDMA versions of the phone (or all three? I doubt that'd make a decent product though). Even if you figure that phones unsubsidized by a major cell carrier are at a $200-$300 premium to their subsidized brethren, for those that want 1,000 songs on their phone, which is cheaper? 1,000 repurchased tunes at $3 a pop or a $300 on time premium so you can load your existing iTMS library into the phone?
For Apple to have incentive to make a phone they need to either get around the walled garden or convince the major cell carriers to open the gate. I suspect the 100 song limit on Motorola's initial phones was part of a deal to open the gate a crack, but obviously it didn't quite cut the mustard. And I don't quite see any major carriers inviting in Apple with open arms, considering the draconian measures cell phone companies currently use to prevent their customers from using any service other than their own.
Basically, Cell companies have seen most recently the commoditization of both dial up and broadband ISPs, which failed to utilize a service model to prevent their fall, and they are grasping as hard as they can?really in all the wrong places?in an effort to prevent being reduced to selling airtime, and only airtime.
I'm not much of one for government owned infrastructure, but really in the case of cellular service we get notably worse service and coverage because infrastructure is fractured among several competing companies and standards. I say nuke the back wall of the garden.
Do you know if whatever regulations cover the use of an unlocked phone has anything to say about services such a phone might offer?
I could see where a cell carrier might grudgingly allow you to use your Apple phone on their network, but take proactive steps to keep you from using Apple services.
I said thos earlier in the thread but i will say it again anyway now.
It would be almost impossible for apple to get the kind of 'iPhone' we want into the current market as none of the networks would really want to play ball.
I think apple should use a much more stealthy approach.
I think apple should add VOIP and Wifi facilities to the iPod.
This way you could call any of your friends to have an iPod, when you were in a wifi area. Now i appreciate there is not massive coverage of wifi at present, but this will grow. The main objective of the service at this point would be to get you to use your iPod to call your friends and family when you are at home / college / work / anywhere with wifi.
If you had the choice would you call someone for free with your iPod or for money with your phone.
A solution such as this would be ideal for students such as myself, as it would be free to call friends accross campus and free to call my parents at home!!
I find it symptomatic that people are beginning to come up with slogans and commercial ideas for the iPhone even before they have "decided" if it is suppose to be a cell phone or a VoIP phone.
It is now over three years since Apple registered "iPhone" and that is what everything is build upon. There is NO rumours out there suggesting this thing is in the making. Well except some financial ANALysts, who read what people want on internet based Apple fan forums and use whatever crap they find as a way to drive up the price of the stocks again, so they can buy that new Mercedes next year and keep the "girlfriend" filled with speed.
Do you know if whatever regulations cover the use of an unlocked phone has anything to say about services such a phone might offer?
I could see where a cell carrier might grudgingly allow you to use your Apple phone on their network, but take proactive steps to keep you from using Apple services.
I am currently using an unlocked phone, both in the US and in the Caribbean, and have never been barred from services (except of course for the immediate degradation of services one encounters when reentering the US). It certainly isn't in the best interest for providers not to provide service to unlocked phones since their pricing still subsidizes those who use their "subsidized" phones. As for 3g video services and other carrier "Value adds", I have no interest in these so I can't say whether they work or not. In the US I use the phone for voice and occasionally SMS only, and prepaid at that. I suppose if I were using T-Mobile I'd have a data account but unfortunately their coverage here and their use of single band as opposed to dual band GSM pretty much kills that idea. For those in Urban areas T-Mobile is undoubtedly the better choice, especially if you use EDGE/GPRS.
Worth noting Verizon doesn't lock their phones, which could explain their slowness to market. It's of limited value, however, since only Sprint's PCS is compatible and few countries other than the USA and Canada have sizable CDMA networks. Verizon's phones would also have to be changed by another provider, since they don't use SIM cards. GSM is infinitely more useful for travel?though I understand things are a bit different in some parts of Asia.
Only if Apple could radically simplify the end-to-end experience of cell phone "ownership" would they enter that market. They are systems designers, at their core, and thus would want to re-think and re-introduce the idea of the mobile phone making it vastly simpler and smarter than what is currently available. 8)
Dont you see all the rumors are here, precisely because people want a phone from apple, and the iPhone thing is the match for that flame!
I laugh when I hear quotes like: "analysts think an apple phone could take a bite out of motorola profits". I own a RAZR. The truth is the SLVR is ugly, the black RAZR is considered nice because of the color, the slimness and the silver buttons. I like the bottons, that's my favouite part. But the silver frame around the screen is damn ugly, and the silver buttons on the side of the phone are also not only hidious but kinda unnecessary. The build quality is not that good either, the back cover is flimsy, with an insecure locking system. But my main pain about the phone is the terrible reception, and the fact that the phone keeps on ending calls. My friend has the same problem with his! Plus with all the RAZR's there is a gap between the bottom of the front screen and front cover. I was concerned about this and brought it back to the shop, and the girl checked several others, but they had the same fault. So when I passed another shop the other day I checked there too! Same fault.
I think the two main reasons it's so popular is its slimmness and the fact that most phones are hidious and impossible to use!
If apple brings out a phone, they will not take a bite out of Motorola, they will gobble them up!
Comments
Originally posted by backtomac
Historically Apple users have paid more for Apple products. Why wouldn't they pay more for an iPhone, provided it is actually different and better than what's out there? I hate my current cell phone, I certainly would look at an iPhone. I'm not advocating that they become a carrier, just that they make the phone for other carriers.
IMO, the cell phone industry is a mature business with nothing but 'me to' products. Eventually somebody will take some risk and try to offer something different in order to differntiate themselves from their competitors. Who knows, maybe the time is now. My 2 cents.
Agreed.
But when various parties say "Apple cell phone" I think they are talking about different things. .
The easiest and most likely IMO is for Apple to make a straight ahead, carrier linked handset, just with some Apple design mojo and a better interface.
But, that means no iTunes functionality or ties to Apple services. Why? Because the carriers won't carry it if it enables users to bypass the services offered by those carriers (Motorola iTune phones too crippled to count), and which are enormously profitable to those carriers, and for which they have plans for world domination.
But it is exactly some kind of iPod/phone/PDA uber thing that integrates seamlessly with your Mac that many are clamoring for, and which is the thing that I think is highly unlikely, for all the reasons I've gone into.
So, again: Simple handset with Apple interface and case design: sure, why not?
Paradigm busting extension of Apple integration into cell phone space: no way.
Originally posted by addabox
But, that means no iTunes functionality or ties to Apple services. Why? Because the carriers won't carry it if it enables users to bypass the services offered by those carriers (Motorola iTune phones too crippled to count), and which are enormously profitable to those carriers, and for which they have plans for world domination.
Maybe Apple would be willing to share some of this revenue with a partner. Granted, margins on iTunes sales of songs is small but it still maybe worth it to apple if it leads to handset sales and more attention to the Apple brand and Mac platform. Carrier may benefit from getting more subscribers.
Originally posted by DaveGee
I've been waiting SO long for Apple to introduce it's iPhone.... In fact I've held off buying a phone ever since I saw that Apple registered the iphone.org domain name back in 1999. So come on Apple release the iPhone already, I've got a TON of calls I gotta make and I ain't getting any younger!!!
Dave
You haven't bought a mobile phone is six years because Apple registered a domain name? Hyperbole alert!
Originally posted by Porchland
You haven't bought a mobile phone is six years because Apple registered a domain name? Hyperbole alert!
Porchland meet Sarcasm
Sarcasm meet Porchland
Dave
Originally posted by backtomac
Maybe Apple would be willing to share some of this revenue with a partner. Granted, margins on iTunes sales of songs is small but it still maybe worth it to apple if it leads to handset sales and more attention to the Apple brand and Mac platform. Carrier may benefit from getting more subscribers.
The major carriers are busy building out their music stores and video services. I honestly don't think they're interested in revenue sharing, because they figure with a huge installed user base and "always on", ubiquitous player, they're in the driver's seat. Verizon makes a shit load of money with its "wall garden" suite of downloads and services, why would they want to take a smaller slice of somebody else's pie when they're feasting own their own?
Which is why I say that Apple might have a shot with a small carrier who would perceive iTunes branding as a competitive edge, so that the revenue loss from sharing the download and services biz is offset by increased subscription.
Trouble with that scenario, Apple is linked to a small carrier, with all that implies in regards to coverage, service, etc.
For Apple to have incentive to make a phone they need to either get around the walled garden or convince the major cell carriers to open the gate. I suspect the 100 song limit on Motorola's initial phones was part of a deal to open the gate a crack, but obviously it didn't quite cut the mustard. And I don't quite see any major carriers inviting in Apple with open arms, considering the draconian measures cell phone companies currently use to prevent their customers from using any service other than their own.
Basically, Cell companies have seen most recently the commoditization of both dial up and broadband ISPs, which failed to utilize a service model to prevent their fall, and they are grasping as hard as they can?really in all the wrong places?in an effort to prevent being reduced to selling airtime, and only airtime.
I'm not much of one for government owned infrastructure, but really in the case of cellular service we get notably worse service and coverage because infrastructure is fractured among several competing companies and standards. I say nuke the back wall of the garden.
Exactly right.
Do you know if whatever regulations cover the use of an unlocked phone has anything to say about services such a phone might offer?
I could see where a cell carrier might grudgingly allow you to use your Apple phone on their network, but take proactive steps to keep you from using Apple services.
It would be almost impossible for apple to get the kind of 'iPhone' we want into the current market as none of the networks would really want to play ball.
I think apple should use a much more stealthy approach.
I think apple should add VOIP and Wifi facilities to the iPod.
This way you could call any of your friends to have an iPod, when you were in a wifi area. Now i appreciate there is not massive coverage of wifi at present, but this will grow. The main objective of the service at this point would be to get you to use your iPod to call your friends and family when you are at home / college / work / anywhere with wifi.
If you had the choice would you call someone for free with your iPod or for money with your phone.
A solution such as this would be ideal for students such as myself, as it would be free to call friends accross campus and free to call my parents at home!!
stu
It is now over three years since Apple registered "iPhone" and that is what everything is build upon. There is NO rumours out there suggesting this thing is in the making. Well except some financial ANALysts, who read what people want on internet based Apple fan forums and use whatever crap they find as a way to drive up the price of the stocks again, so they can buy that new Mercedes next year and keep the "girlfriend" filled with speed.
Originally posted by addabox
Do you know if whatever regulations cover the use of an unlocked phone has anything to say about services such a phone might offer?
I could see where a cell carrier might grudgingly allow you to use your Apple phone on their network, but take proactive steps to keep you from using Apple services.
I am currently using an unlocked phone, both in the US and in the Caribbean, and have never been barred from services (except of course for the immediate degradation of services one encounters when reentering the US). It certainly isn't in the best interest for providers not to provide service to unlocked phones since their pricing still subsidizes those who use their "subsidized" phones. As for 3g video services and other carrier "Value adds", I have no interest in these so I can't say whether they work or not. In the US I use the phone for voice and occasionally SMS only, and prepaid at that. I suppose if I were using T-Mobile I'd have a data account but unfortunately their coverage here and their use of single band as opposed to dual band GSM pretty much kills that idea. For those in Urban areas T-Mobile is undoubtedly the better choice, especially if you use EDGE/GPRS.
Worth noting Verizon doesn't lock their phones, which could explain their slowness to market. It's of limited value, however, since only Sprint's PCS is compatible and few countries other than the USA and Canada have sizable CDMA networks. Verizon's phones would also have to be changed by another provider, since they don't use SIM cards. GSM is infinitely more useful for travel?though I understand things are a bit different in some parts of Asia.
Could......I say Chomp!
But what is the phone part for!
Dont you see all the rumors are here, precisely because people want a phone from apple, and the iPhone thing is the match for that flame!
I laugh when I hear quotes like: "analysts think an apple phone could take a bite out of motorola profits". I own a RAZR. The truth is the SLVR is ugly, the black RAZR is considered nice because of the color, the slimness and the silver buttons. I like the bottons, that's my favouite part. But the silver frame around the screen is damn ugly, and the silver buttons on the side of the phone are also not only hidious but kinda unnecessary. The build quality is not that good either, the back cover is flimsy, with an insecure locking system. But my main pain about the phone is the terrible reception, and the fact that the phone keeps on ending calls. My friend has the same problem with his! Plus with all the RAZR's there is a gap between the bottom of the front screen and front cover. I was concerned about this and brought it back to the shop, and the girl checked several others, but they had the same fault. So when I passed another shop the other day I checked there too! Same fault.
I think the two main reasons it's so popular is its slimmness and the fact that most phones are hidious and impossible to use!
If apple brings out a phone, they will not take a bite out of Motorola, they will gobble them up!