Thanks for the response, but I don't see what marketshare has to do with anything. The iPod is rather new in the grand scheme of things. There are plenty of other players, not to mention CD players, TV's, and everything else with a headphone jack. While we're at it, anything that plays any type of media can damage your hearing if played too loud. Video game consoles attached to TV and stereo speakers anyone?
From the very beginning, this has felt like an iPod witch hunt. Someone show me where I'm wrong. I just hate it when people try to win in court what they couldn't win in the free market.
It's not directed towards the iPod per se. It's just that when people think of digital players, they think of the iPod. That's a direct result of marketshare.
It's used generically. Like when you buy "Scotch Tape", even if it's from someone else.
If I'm drunk and I smash my car into a brick wall who do I sue? The maker of the bricks, the car manufacturer or the building owner? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
If I'm drunk and I smash my car into a brick wall who do I sue? The maker of the bricks, the car manufacturer or the building owner? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
WTF kinda analogy is that? If you were drunk... and... um, what?
the bottom line is a company like apple that strives to be different needs to also be above the rest in terms of responsibility and take initiative in matters such as these.
in the end it will just make them a better company.
If I'm drunk and I smash my car into a brick wall who do I sue? The maker of the bricks, the car manufacturer or the building owner? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
I don't know, if you had run into a big oak tree, I'd sue the tree manufacturer. Those things jump out at you when you least expect it.
Actually, if you got drunk in a bar, you could sue them. Most states require that bars not serve customers past a certain point. Lawsuits have been won on those terms.
IF YOUR EARS HURT READ THIS: It's not the volume, it's the earbuds. There needs to be more research in this area. I get pain in my ears now by just listening to nearly anything on Apple earbuds regardless of the volume, and no pain whatsoever when using any type of over-the-ear earphones like the ones that Sony makes that clip onto my ears and lay overtop of them. In fact, I am all but certain that it took nothing more than a single podcast to damage my right ear permenantly. This is because people record all sorts of weird frequencies irresponsibly in thier podcasts and many podcasts are extremely long like over an hour. It took just one episode of TwiT with some woman's laughter that nearly blew out the tiny speakers on my earbuds even at the lowest of volume settings to damage my ear and now i have ringing in my right ear that never goes away. This is a design/engineering issue. Its not because i listen to music all day long. I almost never listen to music on my iPod even before this happened. Now i never use my iPod anymore.
Of course I'm upset. I have every right to be upset. I never turned the volume up on my iPod past 60% even before i heard that it was the recommended maximum setting because I thought I knew better. But my Dad did all the time. Now his ears are fine (!?!?!) and mine are the ones that hurt (!?!?!?!) and it's just not right, and so I blame Apple for thier earbuds.
My only issue is with thier earbuds, not thier iPods. I'm talking about the ones that come with the iPod. No one should use them. Throw them away. I try and warn people but only some of them are listening. Walkman's never had these kinds of earbuds, this is something new, and sorry to the Mac faithful, but Apple is going to have some really tough times ahead of them if they dont hurry up and figure this out before they start mass producing wireless in-the-ear earbuds. Unless they are planning to sell us the hearing aid afterwards and cash in on that one, too.
Maybe it is worse with some people's eardrums and not others because they somehow vibrate differently with the sleakers in the earbuds but the inner is is very delicate and you can't smash it with vibrations because it wasn't made to work that way.
As for suing Apple, it has to be done. Companies like Apple need to show thier investors that there are lawsuits that justify taking on the added expense of making changes like this. Smaller lawsuits against Apple actually help to make them stronger, before they hurt so many people that the resulting would lawsuit get so big that it actually would impact thier share price. It isn't that the folks at Apple don't care. It's just that they have no idea what they are doing, just like every other company that has to "innovate or die."
I am a very detail-oriented perfectionist. Most of the time the world does not care about what I have to say. But when details matter (and this one sure does) then people had better listen to me because there are two things in this world that are not forgiving- technology and humans - and Apple earbuds hurt both of them.
And if it helps more people to hear my messege, I am typing this on my Mac...
I sure hope I am wrong but I don't see how I can possibly be wrong about this.
Volume and frequencies are volume and frequencies. I don't see how having the drivers 5mm closer to your eardrums makes ANY difference. If your ear is hearing the same volume and same frequencies in both instances -- hypothetically -- how could proximity make any difference at all?
I listen to TWiT EVERY WEEK with my white Apple ear buds -- at a reasonable volume -- and never have had ringing, pain, or anything else negative.
no that would involve personal responsibility... and this is America.
in my opinion though, the first step would be the ability to stop the volume from going over a certain decible. say like 80-90 -- which i believe i rememeber is widely believed to be the highest decible our ears can handle without adverse long term effects
no that would involve personal responsibility... and this is America.
in my opinion though, the first step would be the ability to stop the volume from going over a certain decible. say like 80-90 -- which i believe i rememeber is widely believed to be the highest decible our ears can handle without adverse long term effects
The Europeans are either much further ahead of where we are here in protecting the public, or are smothering people more, depending on which side of the fence you sit on.
They spec almost everything. Volume controls have been place for some time now, as has been table heights, chair heights, and types. Angle of monitor screens, keyboard ergonomics are under control as well as lighting, the number of breaks you must take when using a computer, etc. Most of this is for business, of course, but some applies to home purchases as well. Expect more as time goes on.
The Europeans are either much further ahead of we are here in protecting the public, or are smothering people more, depending on which side of the fence you sit on.
They spec almost everything. Volume controls have been place for some time now, as has been table heights, chair heights, and types. Angle of monitor screens, keyboard ergonomics are under control as well as lighting, the number of breaks you must take when using a computer, etc. Most of this is for business, of course, but some applies to home purchases as well. Expect more as time goes on.
I think this is always an interesting thing to navigate. I am certainly not opposed to consumer, product, worker and workplace safety laws. There is a place for some.
Certainly when it comes to things like reasonable expectations of "fitness for use" appropriate laws are warranted ("Gee...I didn't expect that turning on the lamp and running it for more than an hour would burn my house down!")
I think it is when some things begin to butt up against what most people consider to be "common sense" (which, I suppose, ain't all that common)..."You mean that sliding my hand along the cutting edge of my kitchen knives might be a problem?"
Furthermore...and this is intended as humor folks...
[HUMOR]
I read one guy who thought the biggest problem today was bicycle helmets...reasoning that it allowed "dumb" people to survive bicycle accidents only to live to wreak more havoc in theirs (or other's) lives down the road.
[/HUMOR]
I chuckled. He might not be too far off the mark. But again...humor folks.
I think this is always an interesting thing to navigate. I am certainly not opposed to consumer, product, worker and workplace safety laws. There is a place for some.
Certainly when it comes to things like reasonable expectations of "fitness for use" appropriate laws are warranted ("Gee...I didn't expect that turning on the lamp and running it for more than an hour would burn my house down!")
I think it is when some things begin to butt up against what most people consider to be "common sense" (which, I suppose, ain't all that common)..."You mean that sliding my hand along the cutting edge of my kitchen knives might be a problem?"
Furthermore...and this is intended as humor folks...
[HUMOR]
I read one guy who thought the biggest problem today was bicycle helmets...reasoning that it allowed "dumb" people to survive bicycle accidents only to live to wreak more havoc in theirs (or other's) lives down the road.
[/HUMOR]
I chuckled. He might not be too far off the mark. But again...humor folks.
You are right!
The question is; how much should we be protected against ourselves?
The manufacture of goods, and services, that can harm us, in a way that isn't foreseen by the user, remains a big problem. Remember the Pinto whose gas tank would explode when the car was hit from behind? We should be protected from that.
I suppose a volume limit is a good thig for some. I've been telling people for years that listening too loud is dangerous. But, what if you need the higher output when outputting to a device that has low sensitivity?
This is a tough issue all around. People know that knives can hurt. but, do they really think about hitting their head when riding a bicycle, or motorcycle? How about seatbelts?
Should we be prevented from parachuting because we might forget to open the chute, or scuba diving because we might go too deep and forget to rest on the way up (two of my younger pursuits)?
I remember an old science fiction story where robots were programmed to prevent people from getting hurt. After some time, people weren't allowed to do ANYTHING that might, in any possible way, harm them.
Volume and frequencies are volume and frequencies. I don't see how having the drivers 5mm closer to your eardrums makes ANY difference. If your ear is hearing the same volume and same frequencies in both instances -- hypothetically -- how could proximity make any difference at all?
I listen to TWiT EVERY WEEK with my white Apple ear buds -- at a reasonable volume -- and never have had ringing, pain, or anything else negative.
Look man -- I am saying I get pain from Apple's earbuds and not over the ear ones -- that is PROOF POSITIVE -- and it isnt the 5mm distance, it isnt the volume, it is the design of those little speakers that supposedly "sound better." Shrill sounds from a podcast are all it takes. one Podcast. Why dont you try listeing to Maroon 5 and see if that bass hurts your ears if you want to live dangerously. Turning down the volume only hides the problem and makes you think you can listn even more. If your ears hurt at all you gotta top using earbuds and jsut throw them out, its not owrth it. Im gonna contact this guy so i can help with his research. Poor Apple... If anyone is researching this I am at mail2mp AT gmail DOT com Thank You
Comments
Originally posted by Mac Voyer
Thanks for the response, but I don't see what marketshare has to do with anything. The iPod is rather new in the grand scheme of things. There are plenty of other players, not to mention CD players, TV's, and everything else with a headphone jack. While we're at it, anything that plays any type of media can damage your hearing if played too loud. Video game consoles attached to TV and stereo speakers anyone?
From the very beginning, this has felt like an iPod witch hunt. Someone show me where I'm wrong. I just hate it when people try to win in court what they couldn't win in the free market.
It's not directed towards the iPod per se. It's just that when people think of digital players, they think of the iPod. That's a direct result of marketshare.
It's used generically. Like when you buy "Scotch Tape", even if it's from someone else.
Originally posted by 1984
If I'm drunk and I smash my car into a brick wall who do I sue? The maker of the bricks, the car manufacturer or the building owner? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
WTF kinda analogy is that? If you were drunk... and... um, what?
in the end it will just make them a better company.
Originally posted by 1984
If I'm drunk and I smash my car into a brick wall who do I sue? The maker of the bricks, the car manufacturer or the building owner? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
I don't know, if you had run into a big oak tree, I'd sue the tree manufacturer. Those things jump out at you when you least expect it.
Originally posted by JeffDM
I don't know, if you had run into a big oak tree, I'd sue the tree manufacturer. Those things jump out at you when you least expect it.
Unfortunately, Acorn Computer went out of business years ago.
Originally posted by 1984
It wasn't an analogy. It was sarcasm. Sheesh.
Actually, if you got drunk in a bar, you could sue them. Most states require that bars not serve customers past a certain point. Lawsuits have been won on those terms.
Of course I'm upset. I have every right to be upset. I never turned the volume up on my iPod past 60% even before i heard that it was the recommended maximum setting because I thought I knew better. But my Dad did all the time. Now his ears are fine (!?!?!) and mine are the ones that hurt (!?!?!?!) and it's just not right, and so I blame Apple for thier earbuds.
My only issue is with thier earbuds, not thier iPods. I'm talking about the ones that come with the iPod. No one should use them. Throw them away. I try and warn people but only some of them are listening. Walkman's never had these kinds of earbuds, this is something new, and sorry to the Mac faithful, but Apple is going to have some really tough times ahead of them if they dont hurry up and figure this out before they start mass producing wireless in-the-ear earbuds. Unless they are planning to sell us the hearing aid afterwards and cash in on that one, too.
Maybe it is worse with some people's eardrums and not others because they somehow vibrate differently with the sleakers in the earbuds but the inner is is very delicate and you can't smash it with vibrations because it wasn't made to work that way.
As for suing Apple, it has to be done. Companies like Apple need to show thier investors that there are lawsuits that justify taking on the added expense of making changes like this. Smaller lawsuits against Apple actually help to make them stronger, before they hurt so many people that the resulting would lawsuit get so big that it actually would impact thier share price. It isn't that the folks at Apple don't care. It's just that they have no idea what they are doing, just like every other company that has to "innovate or die."
I am a very detail-oriented perfectionist. Most of the time the world does not care about what I have to say. But when details matter (and this one sure does) then people had better listen to me because there are two things in this world that are not forgiving- technology and humans - and Apple earbuds hurt both of them.
And if it helps more people to hear my messege, I am typing this on my Mac...
I sure hope I am wrong but I don't see how I can possibly be wrong about this.
I listen to TWiT EVERY WEEK with my white Apple ear buds -- at a reasonable volume -- and never have had ringing, pain, or anything else negative.
Originally posted by TednDi
Nice to have the option. However, people need to take responsibility for their own actions.
That is so out of vogue these days.
Blaming others for and expecting the government (or society in general) to protect you from your own unwise choices and actions in "the new black".
in my opinion though, the first step would be the ability to stop the volume from going over a certain decible. say like 80-90 -- which i believe i rememeber is widely believed to be the highest decible our ears can handle without adverse long term effects
Originally posted by mike12309
the first step would be the ability to stop the volume from going over a certain decible. say like 80-90
That is basically what the French law requires...only, I think, 100 db.
Originally posted by mike12309
no that would involve personal responsibility... and this is America.
in my opinion though, the first step would be the ability to stop the volume from going over a certain decible. say like 80-90 -- which i believe i rememeber is widely believed to be the highest decible our ears can handle without adverse long term effects
The Europeans are either much further ahead of where we are here in protecting the public, or are smothering people more, depending on which side of the fence you sit on.
They spec almost everything. Volume controls have been place for some time now, as has been table heights, chair heights, and types. Angle of monitor screens, keyboard ergonomics are under control as well as lighting, the number of breaks you must take when using a computer, etc. Most of this is for business, of course, but some applies to home purchases as well. Expect more as time goes on.
Originally posted by melgross
The Europeans are either much further ahead of we are here in protecting the public, or are smothering people more, depending on which side of the fence you sit on.
They spec almost everything. Volume controls have been place for some time now, as has been table heights, chair heights, and types. Angle of monitor screens, keyboard ergonomics are under control as well as lighting, the number of breaks you must take when using a computer, etc. Most of this is for business, of course, but some applies to home purchases as well. Expect more as time goes on.
I think this is always an interesting thing to navigate. I am certainly not opposed to consumer, product, worker and workplace safety laws. There is a place for some.
Certainly when it comes to things like reasonable expectations of "fitness for use" appropriate laws are warranted ("Gee...I didn't expect that turning on the lamp and running it for more than an hour would burn my house down!")
I think it is when some things begin to butt up against what most people consider to be "common sense" (which, I suppose, ain't all that common)..."You mean that sliding my hand along the cutting edge of my kitchen knives might be a problem?"
Furthermore...and this is intended as humor folks...
[HUMOR]
I read one guy who thought the biggest problem today was bicycle helmets...reasoning that it allowed "dumb" people to survive bicycle accidents only to live to wreak more havoc in theirs (or other's) lives down the road.
[/HUMOR]
I chuckled. He might not be too far off the mark. But again...humor folks.
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
I think this is always an interesting thing to navigate. I am certainly not opposed to consumer, product, worker and workplace safety laws. There is a place for some.
Certainly when it comes to things like reasonable expectations of "fitness for use" appropriate laws are warranted ("Gee...I didn't expect that turning on the lamp and running it for more than an hour would burn my house down!")
I think it is when some things begin to butt up against what most people consider to be "common sense" (which, I suppose, ain't all that common)..."You mean that sliding my hand along the cutting edge of my kitchen knives might be a problem?"
Furthermore...and this is intended as humor folks...
[HUMOR]
I read one guy who thought the biggest problem today was bicycle helmets...reasoning that it allowed "dumb" people to survive bicycle accidents only to live to wreak more havoc in theirs (or other's) lives down the road.
[/HUMOR]
I chuckled. He might not be too far off the mark. But again...humor folks.
You are right!
The question is; how much should we be protected against ourselves?
The manufacture of goods, and services, that can harm us, in a way that isn't foreseen by the user, remains a big problem. Remember the Pinto whose gas tank would explode when the car was hit from behind? We should be protected from that.
I suppose a volume limit is a good thig for some. I've been telling people for years that listening too loud is dangerous. But, what if you need the higher output when outputting to a device that has low sensitivity?
This is a tough issue all around. People know that knives can hurt. but, do they really think about hitting their head when riding a bicycle, or motorcycle? How about seatbelts?
Should we be prevented from parachuting because we might forget to open the chute, or scuba diving because we might go too deep and forget to rest on the way up (two of my younger pursuits)?
I remember an old science fiction story where robots were programmed to prevent people from getting hurt. After some time, people weren't allowed to do ANYTHING that might, in any possible way, harm them.
What a frustrating, boring life.
Originally posted by CosmoNut
Volume and frequencies are volume and frequencies. I don't see how having the drivers 5mm closer to your eardrums makes ANY difference. If your ear is hearing the same volume and same frequencies in both instances -- hypothetically -- how could proximity make any difference at all?
I listen to TWiT EVERY WEEK with my white Apple ear buds -- at a reasonable volume -- and never have had ringing, pain, or anything else negative.
If you dont beleive me -- look at this: http://www.usatoday.com/money/media/...tm?POE=TECISVA
Look man -- I am saying I get pain from Apple's earbuds and not over the ear ones -- that is PROOF POSITIVE -- and it isnt the 5mm distance, it isnt the volume, it is the design of those little speakers that supposedly "sound better." Shrill sounds from a podcast are all it takes. one Podcast. Why dont you try listeing to Maroon 5 and see if that bass hurts your ears if you want to live dangerously. Turning down the volume only hides the problem and makes you think you can listn even more. If your ears hurt at all you gotta top using earbuds and jsut throw them out, its not owrth it. Im gonna contact this guy so i can help with his research. Poor Apple... If anyone is researching this I am at mail2mp AT gmail DOT com Thank You