My friend works at BMW and you can buy ANY part for ANY of their cars that you like. This is where they make their money. The markup on cars is actually very small so they make most of their money from servicing and parts.
Within my circle of friends, having a custom built beige box running an off-the-shelf OSX would go miles toward cementing Apple's spot as a "real computer".. Somehow the notion that it is not real still persists.
The idea that the owner has to be the one screwing together all the parts to make it a "real" computer is not true. I used to really like screwing together all the parts but I really don't care for that anymore, especially when I switched to workstations, which had a build quality and reliability that is superior to any user-assembled computer that I've seen.
The idea that the owner has to be the one screwing together all the parts to make it a "real" computer is not true. I used to really like screwing together all the parts but I really don't care for that anymore, especially when I switched to workstations, which had a build quality and reliability that is superior to any user-assembled computer that I've seen.
I never said it was logical. It's a cultural thing, more religion than science. Just keep in mind that I don't actually do any real work on my home system, so to me it is much more of a journey than a destination. Buying a built system would completely defeat the purpose. The fact that I may not be able to build one myself does not in any way increase the likelyhood that I will buy a Mac.
The imacs are too proprietary and unibody.. no slots, etc.. the minis are cool, but the video ram is too low.. the powermacs don't come with Intel yet, and they'll probably be like $2500+ anyway.. So the solution for me to would be to build one to my own specs for < $1000 and then buy a copy of os x. That seems reasonable to me. I don't know why everyone wants to give me a hard time about this. I realize apple doesn't want to do it that way, but that doesn't make ME the jerk!
the powermacs don't come with Intel yet, and they'll probably be like $2500+ anyway.. So the solution for me to would be to build one to my own specs for < $1000 and then buy a copy of os x. That seems reasonable to me. I don't know why everyone wants to give me a hard time about this. I realize apple doesn't want to do it that way, but that doesn't make ME the jerk!
I too am highly disappointed in Apple's hardware strategy, particularly with the lack of a consumer tower. Apple and Apple fans make a lot of excuses, but I don't think it works so well. I don't like having to resort to adding external components to expand a computer, gets very messy, IMO, and external components usually cost a lot more per device. So much for developing an elegant product if it requires a cluttered desk to make the best use of it.
When Steve Jobs became interim CEO of Apple in 1997, the company was in terrible shape. There were way too many Mac lines, not to mention Printers, Scanners, a Camera, the Newton, etc. Let's not forget that there were still Clones as well.
Under Jobs, he tried to renegotiate the clone manufacturer's license agreements to such high levels that they would not be competitive in the market. When they would not agree to the changes, Apple refused to license hardware or later versions of the Mac OS to them.
Once the clones were dead, he killed off the Newton, ended the lines of Apple branded Printers and Scanners, and immediately started to consolidate the product line.
The original Bondi Blue iMac was announced and released, the PowerBook G3s were redesigned as sleeker machines, the Power Mac G3s went from Beige to Blueberry and the iBook was released in 1999. All of the old Power Macs, Performas, and LCs including the pizza boxes were gone. USB and Firewire replaced SCSI and ADB ports. Mac OS X hit the shelves and the 'classic' Mac OS is now a fond memory.
The only variation we've seen from Apple since 1999 has been the Power Mac G4 Cube (which is gone), the eMac (which is gone), and the Mac Mini.
When the transition to Intel is complete, Apple might decide to re-evaluate their lineup. Until then, they need to get the transition over and done with because it is hurting their bottom line. Unfortunately for them, Adobe and other companies are lagging behind in getting Universal versions of their apps out.
The problem as I see it is, people who want a 'consumer tower' would jump at the chance to own a Mac Mini if it had a 'real graphics card'. The CPU in the Mini is socketed, but it's a pain in the ass to even get the Mini open and you take a major risk in doing those kinds of processor upgrades if you don't know exactly what you are doing. It also voids the Apple warranty. Nevertheless, you can upgrade the Core Solo or Duo to a faster processor.
After that, you can always throw in a large hard drive, 2 GB of RAM, a SuperDrive, and it already has built in Airport/Bluetooth. Heck, the price is even good for that kind of machine. But the integrated graphics tend to throw the people that want that 'consumer tower' because they want the best graphics card that they can get. I doubt Apple is looking to expand into that particular market.
20 years of hearing people say they want stuff that Apple doesn't offer. I don't see anyone calling anybody a jerk - it's just we've heard these requests constantly from PCers for 20 years.
- build it myself
- upgrade everything
- lower the price
Apple loses money on those things. Back when they had 6 slots, their surveys showed that more than 90% of the customers never put anything in the slots.
If they sell you parts, they can't sell you another computer.
If they make a cheap tower, it will cut into sales of the real towers and the iMac.
Offering a bazillion different options increases cost, makes inventory a nightmare, and QA becomes an order of magnitude more complex.
They won't make a barebones tower for business because the consumers would also want it and there go the margins again. Apple survives on 30% margins. If and when their internal projections show that selling a 10% margin tower will make more money through volume, they will do it. So far it seems obvious to me that the projections do not show that.
The idea that the owner has to be the one screwing together all the parts to make it a "real" computer is not true. I used to really like screwing together all the parts but I really don't care for that anymore, especially when I switched to workstations, which had a build quality and reliability that is superior to any user-assembled computer that I've seen.
I guess you haven't seen much then. Who do you think assembles your so called "workstations"?
A bunch of computer greasemonkeys who care more about their salary and profits rather putting together a good computer.
I like to tinker and wouldn't mind getting my hands on a intelmac motherboard. With that said... apple has purposefully chosen to stick to the complete-package market. For decades now we've heard the same let us roll-our-own requests and you can bet that apple has as well. I'd bet that they choose not to enter this market because it would dilute one of the Mac brand's hallmarks "It just works."
Granted... my passively water cooled dual 1.533mhz G4 is humming happily along in a lian li case. Only thing original in my mac is the motherboard. Everything else is from third parties.
Building your own mac is possible. It's just that apple prices seperate motherboards at a level that it doesn't make sense for computer hobbiests or bargain hunters.
I guess you haven't seen much then. Who do you think assembles your so called "workstations"?
A bunch of computer greasemonkeys who care more about their salary and profits rather putting together a good computer.
I think I have seen much, but it's nice of you to belittle me right off the bat without trying to hear me out. The problem with that line of thinking is that the workstations I've bought are good computers. Despite what you are insinuating, they really are workstations systems, my first was a DEC Alpha, then I switched to Xeons when I needed something that ran x86 software natively. These computers were extremely stable and reliable, I think I've seen about one BSOD every two or three years, and those were due to a dying hard drive or an incorrect driver.
Comments
Originally posted by AndrewLondon
My friend works at BMW and you can buy ANY part for ANY of their cars that you like. This is where they make their money. The markup on cars is actually very small so they make most of their money from servicing and parts.
Oh great another car analogy.
Originally posted by jmille34
Within my circle of friends, having a custom built beige box running an off-the-shelf OSX would go miles toward cementing Apple's spot as a "real computer".. Somehow the notion that it is not real still persists.
The idea that the owner has to be the one screwing together all the parts to make it a "real" computer is not true. I used to really like screwing together all the parts but I really don't care for that anymore, especially when I switched to workstations, which had a build quality and reliability that is superior to any user-assembled computer that I've seen.
Originally posted by JeffDM
The idea that the owner has to be the one screwing together all the parts to make it a "real" computer is not true. I used to really like screwing together all the parts but I really don't care for that anymore, especially when I switched to workstations, which had a build quality and reliability that is superior to any user-assembled computer that I've seen.
I never said it was logical. It's a cultural thing, more religion than science. Just keep in mind that I don't actually do any real work on my home system, so to me it is much more of a journey than a destination. Buying a built system would completely defeat the purpose. The fact that I may not be able to build one myself does not in any way increase the likelyhood that I will buy a Mac.
The imacs are too proprietary and unibody.. no slots, etc.. the minis are cool, but the video ram is too low.. the powermacs don't come with Intel yet, and they'll probably be like $2500+ anyway.. So the solution for me to would be to build one to my own specs for < $1000 and then buy a copy of os x. That seems reasonable to me. I don't know why everyone wants to give me a hard time about this. I realize apple doesn't want to do it that way, but that doesn't make ME the jerk!
Originally posted by jmille34
the powermacs don't come with Intel yet, and they'll probably be like $2500+ anyway.. So the solution for me to would be to build one to my own specs for < $1000 and then buy a copy of os x. That seems reasonable to me. I don't know why everyone wants to give me a hard time about this. I realize apple doesn't want to do it that way, but that doesn't make ME the jerk!
I too am highly disappointed in Apple's hardware strategy, particularly with the lack of a consumer tower. Apple and Apple fans make a lot of excuses, but I don't think it works so well. I don't like having to resort to adding external components to expand a computer, gets very messy, IMO, and external components usually cost a lot more per device. So much for developing an elegant product if it requires a cluttered desk to make the best use of it.
Under Jobs, he tried to renegotiate the clone manufacturer's license agreements to such high levels that they would not be competitive in the market. When they would not agree to the changes, Apple refused to license hardware or later versions of the Mac OS to them.
Once the clones were dead, he killed off the Newton, ended the lines of Apple branded Printers and Scanners, and immediately started to consolidate the product line.
The original Bondi Blue iMac was announced and released, the PowerBook G3s were redesigned as sleeker machines, the Power Mac G3s went from Beige to Blueberry and the iBook was released in 1999. All of the old Power Macs, Performas, and LCs including the pizza boxes were gone. USB and Firewire replaced SCSI and ADB ports. Mac OS X hit the shelves and the 'classic' Mac OS is now a fond memory.
The only variation we've seen from Apple since 1999 has been the Power Mac G4 Cube (which is gone), the eMac (which is gone), and the Mac Mini.
When the transition to Intel is complete, Apple might decide to re-evaluate their lineup. Until then, they need to get the transition over and done with because it is hurting their bottom line. Unfortunately for them, Adobe and other companies are lagging behind in getting Universal versions of their apps out.
The problem as I see it is, people who want a 'consumer tower' would jump at the chance to own a Mac Mini if it had a 'real graphics card'. The CPU in the Mini is socketed, but it's a pain in the ass to even get the Mini open and you take a major risk in doing those kinds of processor upgrades if you don't know exactly what you are doing. It also voids the Apple warranty. Nevertheless, you can upgrade the Core Solo or Duo to a faster processor.
After that, you can always throw in a large hard drive, 2 GB of RAM, a SuperDrive, and it already has built in Airport/Bluetooth. Heck, the price is even good for that kind of machine. But the integrated graphics tend to throw the people that want that 'consumer tower' because they want the best graphics card that they can get. I doubt Apple is looking to expand into that particular market.
- build it myself
- upgrade everything
- lower the price
Apple loses money on those things. Back when they had 6 slots, their surveys showed that more than 90% of the customers never put anything in the slots.
If they sell you parts, they can't sell you another computer.
If they make a cheap tower, it will cut into sales of the real towers and the iMac.
Offering a bazillion different options increases cost, makes inventory a nightmare, and QA becomes an order of magnitude more complex.
They won't make a barebones tower for business because the consumers would also want it and there go the margins again. Apple survives on 30% margins. If and when their internal projections show that selling a 10% margin tower will make more money through volume, they will do it. So far it seems obvious to me that the projections do not show that.
Originally posted by JeffDM
The idea that the owner has to be the one screwing together all the parts to make it a "real" computer is not true. I used to really like screwing together all the parts but I really don't care for that anymore, especially when I switched to workstations, which had a build quality and reliability that is superior to any user-assembled computer that I've seen.
I guess you haven't seen much then. Who do you think assembles your so called "workstations"?
A bunch of computer greasemonkeys who care more about their salary and profits rather putting together a good computer.
Granted... my passively water cooled dual 1.533mhz G4 is humming happily along in a lian li case. Only thing original in my mac is the motherboard. Everything else is from third parties.
Building your own mac is possible. It's just that apple prices seperate motherboards at a level that it doesn't make sense for computer hobbiests or bargain hunters.
Originally posted by skatman
I guess you haven't seen much then. Who do you think assembles your so called "workstations"?
A bunch of computer greasemonkeys who care more about their salary and profits rather putting together a good computer.
I think I have seen much, but it's nice of you to belittle me right off the bat without trying to hear me out. The problem with that line of thinking is that the workstations I've bought are good computers. Despite what you are insinuating, they really are workstations systems, my first was a DEC Alpha, then I switched to Xeons when I needed something that ran x86 software natively. These computers were extremely stable and reliable, I think I've seen about one BSOD every two or three years, and those were due to a dying hard drive or an incorrect driver.