I need/want the machine for Java Programming. Since Apple support for Java always lags behind Solaris, Linux, and Windows (no JSE 1.6 betas yet on Apple), I may be forced to buy a Dell with Linux instead. I have plenty of Macs though including a dual 2.5G5 PowerMac, 2 XServers, and a Intel Mini and a MBP to keep me happy ....
Why a Dell? Dell is like the KMart of the computer world. Why not just build your own or buy something with a bit better reputation?
Why a Dell? Dell is like the KMart of the computer world. Why not just build your own or buy something with a bit better reputation?
Because I have had good experience with them and the machines are cheap. Also, you can't do much better (price and features) if you build the machine yourself and then there is the hardware support issue .... things do fail and it's better to have someone else take care of it ...
Because I have had good experience with them and the machines are cheap. Also, you can't do much better (price and features) if you build the machine yourself and then there is the hardware support issue .... things do fail and it's better to have someone else take care of it ...
What about bootcamp? Sorry, not trying to be contrary, just asking.
What about bootcamp? Sorry, not trying to be contrary, just asking.
Thanks, I haven't tried out bootcamp or Parallels yet. I don't have any WinXP Pro SP2 disc lying around. Also I prefer Linux instead of Windows. I don't believe bootcamp supports Linux.
I may change my mind once I see the new Apple Mac Pro but for now it seems I can get all the same components (CPU, Graphics, Memory, even Motherboard) for probably $500-$1000 cheaper if I choose Dell. This estimate is for a $2800 Dell machine with 4GB RAM and 2x 250GB SATA drives and 3 yr on-site next day hardware support. Sure I won't be able to run Mac OS X on it but I do have the new Mac Mini and the MBP for that ....
Another thing that is important to me is replace-ability of the CPUs. 6-8 months down the road when Clovertown is out, I would like to have the option to replace the Woodcrests with Clovertowns and get double the number of cores. Given that AMD and Intel are competing fiercely, Clovertown might get priced similar to the current pricing of Woodcrest. Somehow I think this upgrading will be more possible with the Dell Workstation than the Apple Mac Pro.
Thanks, I haven't tried out bootcamp or Parallels yet. I don't have any WinXP Pro SP2 disc lying around. Also I prefer Linux instead of Windows. I don't believe bootcamp supports Linux.
I may change my mind once I see the new Apple Mac Pro but for now it seems I can get all the same components (CPU, Graphics, Memory, even Motherboard) for probably $500-$1000 cheaper if I choose Dell. This estimate is for a $2800 Dell machine with 4GB RAM and 2x 250GB SATA drives and 3 yr on-site next day hardware support. Sure I won't be able to run Mac OS X on it but I do have the new Mac Mini and the MBP for that ....
Another thing that is important to me is replace-ability of the CPUs. 6-8 months down the road when Clovertown is out, I would like to have the option to replace the Woodcrests with Clovertowns and get double the number of cores. Given that AMD and Intel are competing fiercely, Clovertown might get priced similar to the current pricing of Woodcrest. Somehow I think this upgrading will be more possible with the Dell Workstation than the Apple Mac Pro.
Parallels does support Linux and for the cost it may be worth it. Please post your experiance here if you decide to do Linux/Parallels. I use XP/Parallels and all is fine there no problems (@1.5gig ), but I'm on the learning curve.
Thanks, I haven't tried out bootcamp or Parallels yet. I don't have any WinXP Pro SP2 disc lying around. Also I prefer Linux instead of Windows. I don't believe bootcamp supports Linux.
And what you said about hardware support, when you build a DYI machine you have BETTER support IMO than any tech support guy who reads off of a document will ever give you. Last year I built a system with an Asus motherboard (one of their first LGA775 boards) and received awesome tech support. But besides that you can usually get away with better warranties directly from the manufacturer of parts than from dell. But that's just me... i'd rather have a computer that I built just for me instead of one that was mass produced with inferior parts for everyone. (And yes Dell does run inferior / cheap parts... especially power supplies).
Parallels does support Linux and for the cost it may be worth it. Please post your experiance here if you decide to do Linux/Parallels. I use XP/Parallels and all is fine there no problems (@1.5gig ), but I'm on the learning curve.
Just read the Parallels FAQ . The current release does not support SMP inside the guest OS. That's a non-starter for me but I think once they do, I will give it a serious consideration.
And what you said about hardware support, when you build a DYI machine you have BETTER support IMO than any tech support guy who reads off of a document will ever give you. Last year I built a system with an Asus motherboard (one of their first LGA775 boards) and received awesome tech support. But besides that you can usually get away with better warranties directly from the manufacturer of parts than from dell. But that's just me... i'd rather have a computer that I built just for me instead of one that was mass produced with inferior parts for everyone. (And yes Dell does run inferior / cheap parts... especially power supplies).
If you have a couple of machines it is easy to build/support/upgrade them yourself but I have too many of them. I would rather focus on my work and pay someone else to take care of any problems (specially hardware ones, I can usually manage any software issues). It is possible Dell uses cheap parts but my experience (other than their 1U Servers being really loud ) has been acceptable. In contrast, my recent experience with Apple hardware hasn't been too exemplary.
XServe dual G5 - died right after 1 yr. warranty expired. I didn't buy Applecare because it sells for a whopping $999 and Apple wouldn't fix it.
Wife's iMac G5 - bad firewire port - damaged a couple of iPods.
Powerbook - screen with ghost images; malfunctioning external DVI port; latch not working after extended use
Intel Mac Mini - doesn't work at 1920x1080 resolution (static across the screen)
Macbook Pro - runs too hot ; maybe getting the 7200 rpm disk was a mistake
Sorry for the laundry list but I really felt like venting.
Other than these issues, I have totally loved these and other Apple products over the years. I am usually among the first to buy most (didn't get the iPod leather case ) things that Apple comes out with. I have been to a few WWDCs and also own some Apple stock. I am eagerly looking forward to the new Mac Pros, XServes, iPods, media center etc ....:
Other than these issues, I have totally loved these and other Apple products over the years. I am usually among the first to buy most (didn't get the iPod leather case ) things that Apple comes out with.
If I were you, I'd be the last to buy new Apple products. Apple's famous amongst Mac users for flawed rev. A gear, which you exemplify I'm on a 4th gen TiBook and have had no problems whatsoever.
If I were you, I'd be the last to buy new Apple products. Apple's famous amongst Mac users for flawed rev. A gear, which you exemplify I'm on a 4th gen TiBook and have had no problems whatsoever.
Not true. Every computer manufacturer has trouble with a low percentage of their products no matter what Rev. I have had all Rev A PowerMacs, and one Rev A PowerBook, and never had a problem. You never see the people that have no problems with their machines on line. All you ever see is the unlucky few that start complaining when luch has struck them badly.
If I were you, I'd be the last to buy new Apple products. Apple's famous amongst Mac users for flawed rev. A gear, which you exemplify I'm on a 4th gen TiBook and have had no problems whatsoever.
Apple's rev A is no more likely to have a problem that anyone else's rev A product. Possibly less. Apple is a very visible company however, and every flaw is given plenty of press. Apple users are also more whiney than most, and complain about every little problem that most users of other equipment wouldn't even think about.
I generally give a month or so before ordering a new model. I do that with everything. I wait for feedback from the early adopters. If everything seems fine, I will buy in a couple of weeks, if not, I wait for two or three weeks more. There isn't really a rush.
I bought a Trio 700p Friday. I could have bought it when it first came out, but I wanted to read several reviews, and read the feedback on the forums first. That's the best way. Read Macintouch.com, and Macfixit.com for a couple of weeks to see what the problems are, if any. I do that with upgrades and updates as well, though usually, after one week, you will get enough information.
It looks like we needn't worry too much about the Apple workstation. Apple just lowered the price of industry leading shake to $499.00, which a few years ago, before they were purchased by Apple was like $10,000. This move alone in my mind says they are going to offer a workstations aimed at the large studios, which already have Macs using shake, and smaller ones that can now afford this higher quality production application. Apple has more going for them now, especially in the pro workstation department than any manufacturer IMO especially with bootcamp, in case anyone still has any dependancy on windows applications. This also IMM says that once bigger studios start using more Macs there will be more developers who's applications will have to be ported due to studio requests, and the mass amounts of user requests that they already get. Such as SOFTIMAGE who's XSI application is right behind Maya as a favorite in movie production 3D, and has been submitted petitions by an enormous amount of Mac users wanting to use their Applications.
All I can say is this looks like Apple is making a huge push in the movie industry were workstations play a major role. Being that you can now use a Mac to edit your movie no matter what Application your using because of bootcamp, and you could also have your whole digital effects department running on Macs there will be deep discounts to be applied across the board for bigger purchases. This could be a brilliant move by Apple right now especially being that Steve Jobs is personally involved, and they are already in negotiations with Hollywood studios over movies for the ITMS.
Holy shit, wow, I thought they meant they dropped the price $450, not that it is now $450. Jesus christ, that is Lord of the Rings tech for less than Microsoft Office.
Yeah, Apple could really run a great promotion if you could get Shake, FC Express, all the iLife stuff, a Quad-core Mac Pro with a decent amount of RAM, and a 20 inch monitor for $4000 or so. The "amateur filmmaker's package" could get a lot of people interested, especially now that we seem to be moving to a system where anyone can produce content.
Yeah, Apple could really run a great promotion if you could get Shake, FC Express, all the iLife stuff, a Quad-core Mac Pro with a decent amount of RAM, and a 20 inch monitor for $4000 or so. The "amateur filmmaker's package" could get a lot of people interested, especially now that we seem to be moving to a system where anyone can produce content.
Apple doesn't package monitors so that's probably not going to happen. But I am getting excited about the possibilities of the new Mac Pro.
I'm going to post my first spec in a long time.
This is my prediction for the highend version. 2x 3GHz Woodcrest processors. 2x 16x PCI-E lanes 3 additional PCI-E lanes Graphics card options.
NVIDIA GeForce 7950 GX2.
NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT,
NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT,
NVIDIA Quadro FX 45, and 5500,
Possibility of Nvidia offering a video production SDI solution also such as the:
NVIDIA Quadro FX 5500 SDI 512MB RAM base - Up to 8, or 16GB. Pioneer DVR-111D Superdrive 3, or 4 Hard Drive bays 2 of which hot swappable. 6 USB 2.0 ports, 2 FW 800 1 FW 400 Same case as the G5, redesigned internal setup.
I like what you are thinking, but I say they need a version of the nVidia QuadroFX4500 X2, and they need to add in the SDI for viewing Shake comps?
Apple doesn't package monitors so that's probably not going to happen. But I am getting excited about the possibilities of the new Mac Pro.
I'm going to post my first spec in a long time.
This is my prediction for the highend version. 2x 3GHz Woodcrest processors. 2x 16x PCI-E lanes 3 additional PCI-E lanes Graphics card options.
NVIDIA GeForce 7950 GX2.
NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT,
NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT,
NVIDIA Quadro FX 45, and 5500,
Possibility of Nvidia offering a video production SDI solution also such as the:
NVIDIA Quadro FX 5500 SDI 512MB RAM base - Up to 8, or 16GB. Pioneer DVR-111D Superdrive 3, or 4 Hard Drive bays 2 of which hot swappable. 6 USB 2.0 ports, 2 FW 800 1 FW 400 Same case as the G5, redesigned internal setup.
The only problem is that if you're thinking SLI, it may not happen.
While we don't know what is up Apple's and Intel's sleeves, if the Mac Pro uses an Intel chipset, which it most assuredly will, SLI could be out of the question. If it won't work with Conroe, why should it work with Woodcrest?
Comments
Originally posted by emig647
Don't count on it. Apple has never been competitive on prices..... ESPECIALLY with Dell.
Yeah I expect Apple will have about a %15-20 premium over what you'd pay for Dell.
Originally posted by mwswami
I need/want the machine for Java Programming. Since Apple support for Java always lags behind Solaris, Linux, and Windows (no JSE 1.6 betas yet on Apple), I may be forced to buy a Dell with Linux instead. I have plenty of Macs though including a dual 2.5G5 PowerMac, 2 XServers, and a Intel Mini and a MBP to keep me happy ....
Why a Dell? Dell is like the KMart of the computer world. Why not just build your own or buy something with a bit better reputation?
Originally posted by emig647
Why a Dell? Dell is like the KMart of the computer world. Why not just build your own or buy something with a bit better reputation?
Because I have had good experience with them and the machines are cheap. Also, you can't do much better (price and features) if you build the machine yourself and then there is the hardware support issue .... things do fail and it's better to have someone else take care of it ...
Originally posted by mwswami
Because I have had good experience with them and the machines are cheap. Also, you can't do much better (price and features) if you build the machine yourself and then there is the hardware support issue .... things do fail and it's better to have someone else take care of it ...
What about bootcamp? Sorry, not trying to be contrary, just asking.
Originally posted by Flounder
What about bootcamp? Sorry, not trying to be contrary, just asking.
Thanks, I haven't tried out bootcamp or Parallels yet. I don't have any WinXP Pro SP2 disc lying around. Also I prefer Linux instead of Windows. I don't believe bootcamp supports Linux.
I may change my mind once I see the new Apple Mac Pro but for now it seems I can get all the same components (CPU, Graphics, Memory, even Motherboard) for probably $500-$1000 cheaper if I choose Dell. This estimate is for a $2800 Dell machine with 4GB RAM and 2x 250GB SATA drives and 3 yr on-site next day hardware support. Sure I won't be able to run Mac OS X on it but I do have the new Mac Mini and the MBP for that ....
Another thing that is important to me is replace-ability of the CPUs. 6-8 months down the road when Clovertown is out, I would like to have the option to replace the Woodcrests with Clovertowns and get double the number of cores. Given that AMD and Intel are competing fiercely, Clovertown might get priced similar to the current pricing of Woodcrest. Somehow I think this upgrading will be more possible with the Dell Workstation than the Apple Mac Pro.
Originally posted by mwswami
Thanks, I haven't tried out bootcamp or Parallels yet. I don't have any WinXP Pro SP2 disc lying around. Also I prefer Linux instead of Windows. I don't believe bootcamp supports Linux.
I may change my mind once I see the new Apple Mac Pro but for now it seems I can get all the same components (CPU, Graphics, Memory, even Motherboard) for probably $500-$1000 cheaper if I choose Dell. This estimate is for a $2800 Dell machine with 4GB RAM and 2x 250GB SATA drives and 3 yr on-site next day hardware support. Sure I won't be able to run Mac OS X on it but I do have the new Mac Mini and the MBP for that ....
Another thing that is important to me is replace-ability of the CPUs. 6-8 months down the road when Clovertown is out, I would like to have the option to replace the Woodcrests with Clovertowns and get double the number of cores. Given that AMD and Intel are competing fiercely, Clovertown might get priced similar to the current pricing of Woodcrest. Somehow I think this upgrading will be more possible with the Dell Workstation than the Apple Mac Pro.
Parallels does support Linux and for the cost it may be worth it. Please post your experiance here if you decide to do Linux/Parallels. I use XP/Parallels and all is fine there no problems (@1.5gig
Originally posted by mwswami
Thanks, I haven't tried out bootcamp or Parallels yet. I don't have any WinXP Pro SP2 disc lying around. Also I prefer Linux instead of Windows. I don't believe bootcamp supports Linux.
Yah you can use BootCamp to boot linux: BootCamp boots linux too
And what you said about hardware support, when you build a DYI machine you have BETTER support IMO than any tech support guy who reads off of a document will ever give you. Last year I built a system with an Asus motherboard (one of their first LGA775 boards) and received awesome tech support. But besides that you can usually get away with better warranties directly from the manufacturer of parts than from dell. But that's just me... i'd rather have a computer that I built just for me instead of one that was mass produced with inferior parts for everyone. (And yes Dell does run inferior / cheap parts... especially power supplies).
Originally posted by Brendon
Parallels does support Linux and for the cost it may be worth it. Please post your experiance here if you decide to do Linux/Parallels. I use XP/Parallels and all is fine there no problems (@1.5gig
Just read the Parallels FAQ . The current release does not support SMP inside the guest OS. That's a non-starter for me but I think once they do, I will give it a serious consideration.
Originally posted by emig647
Yah you can use BootCamp to boot linux: BootCamp boots linux too
And what you said about hardware support, when you build a DYI machine you have BETTER support IMO than any tech support guy who reads off of a document will ever give you. Last year I built a system with an Asus motherboard (one of their first LGA775 boards) and received awesome tech support. But besides that you can usually get away with better warranties directly from the manufacturer of parts than from dell. But that's just me... i'd rather have a computer that I built just for me instead of one that was mass produced with inferior parts for everyone. (And yes Dell does run inferior / cheap parts... especially power supplies).
If you have a couple of machines it is easy to build/support/upgrade them yourself but I have too many of them. I would rather focus on my work and pay someone else to take care of any problems (specially hardware ones, I can usually manage any software issues). It is possible Dell uses cheap parts but my experience (other than their 1U Servers being really loud
- XServe dual G5 - died right after 1 yr. warranty expired. I didn't buy Applecare because it sells for a whopping $999 and Apple wouldn't fix it.
Sorry for the laundry list but I really felt like venting.Wife's iMac G5 - bad firewire port - damaged a couple of iPods.
Powerbook - screen with ghost images; malfunctioning external DVI port; latch not working after extended use
Intel Mac Mini - doesn't work at 1920x1080 resolution (static across the screen)
Macbook Pro - runs too hot ; maybe getting the 7200 rpm disk was a mistake
Other than these issues, I have totally loved these and other Apple products over the years. I am usually among the first to buy most (didn't get the iPod leather case
Other than these issues, I have totally loved these and other Apple products over the years. I am usually among the first to buy most (didn't get the iPod leather case
If I were you, I'd be the last to buy new Apple products. Apple's famous amongst Mac users for flawed rev. A gear, which you exemplify
Originally posted by 1337_5L4Xx0R
If I were you, I'd be the last to buy new Apple products. Apple's famous amongst Mac users for flawed rev. A gear, which you exemplify
Not true. Every computer manufacturer has trouble with a low percentage of their products no matter what Rev. I have had all Rev A PowerMacs, and one Rev A PowerBook, and never had a problem. You never see the people that have no problems with their machines on line. All you ever see is the unlucky few that start complaining when luch has struck them badly.
Originally posted by 1337_5L4Xx0R
If I were you, I'd be the last to buy new Apple products. Apple's famous amongst Mac users for flawed rev. A gear, which you exemplify
Apple's rev A is no more likely to have a problem that anyone else's rev A product. Possibly less. Apple is a very visible company however, and every flaw is given plenty of press. Apple users are also more whiney than most, and complain about every little problem that most users of other equipment wouldn't even think about.
I generally give a month or so before ordering a new model. I do that with everything. I wait for feedback from the early adopters. If everything seems fine, I will buy in a couple of weeks, if not, I wait for two or three weeks more. There isn't really a rush.
I bought a Trio 700p Friday. I could have bought it when it first came out, but I wanted to read several reviews, and read the feedback on the forums first. That's the best way. Read Macintouch.com, and Macfixit.com for a couple of weeks to see what the problems are, if any. I do that with upgrades and updates as well, though usually, after one week, you will get enough information.
It looks like we needn't worry too much about the Apple workstation. Apple just lowered the price of industry leading shake to $499.00, which a few years ago, before they were purchased by Apple was like $10,000. This move alone in my mind says they are going to offer a workstations aimed at the large studios, which already have Macs using shake, and smaller ones that can now afford this higher quality production application. Apple has more going for them now, especially in the pro workstation department than any manufacturer IMO especially with bootcamp, in case anyone still has any dependancy on windows applications. This also IMM says that once bigger studios start using more Macs there will be more developers who's applications will have to be ported due to studio requests, and the mass amounts of user requests that they already get. Such as SOFTIMAGE who's XSI application is right behind Maya as a favorite in movie production 3D, and has been submitted petitions by an enormous amount of Mac users wanting to use their Applications.
All I can say is this looks like Apple is making a huge push in the movie industry were workstations play a major role. Being that you can now use a Mac to edit your movie no matter what Application your using because of bootcamp, and you could also have your whole digital effects department running on Macs there will be deep discounts to be applied across the board for bigger purchases. This could be a brilliant move by Apple right now especially being that Steve Jobs is personally involved, and they are already in negotiations with Hollywood studios over movies for the ITMS.
Where, oh where, can my Mac Pro be?
Apple has not yet given her to me.
She's going to be heavenly, so I've got to be good
So I can see this tower when it gets unfurled.
Originally posted by ZachPruckowski
Yeah, Apple could really run a great promotion if you could get Shake, FC Express, all the iLife stuff, a Quad-core Mac Pro with a decent amount of RAM, and a 20 inch monitor for $4000 or so. The "amateur filmmaker's package" could get a lot of people interested, especially now that we seem to be moving to a system where anyone can produce content.
They could do it for five, if they wanted to.
I'm going to post my first spec in a long time.
This is my prediction for the highend version.
NVIDIA GeForce 7950 GX2.
NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT,
NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT,
NVIDIA Quadro FX 45, and 5500,
Possibility of Nvidia offering a video production SDI solution also such as the:
NVIDIA Quadro FX 5500 SDI
Originally posted by onlooker
Apple doesn't package monitors so that's probably not going to happen. But I am getting excited about the possibilities of the new Mac Pro.
I'm going to post my first spec in a long time.
This is my prediction for the highend version. 2x 3GHz Woodcrest processors.
2x 16x PCI-E lanes
3 additional PCI-E lanes
Graphics card options.
NVIDIA GeForce 7950 GX2.
NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT,
NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT,
NVIDIA Quadro FX 45, and 5500,
Possibility of Nvidia offering a video production SDI solution also such as the:
NVIDIA Quadro FX 5500 SDI
512MB RAM base - Up to 8, or 16GB.
Pioneer DVR-111D Superdrive
3, or 4 Hard Drive bays 2 of which hot swappable.
6 USB 2.0 ports,
2 FW 800
1 FW 400
Same case as the G5, redesigned internal setup.
I like what you are thinking, but I say they need a version of the nVidia QuadroFX4500 X2, and they need to add in the SDI for viewing Shake comps?
;^p
Originally posted by onlooker
Apple doesn't package monitors so that's probably not going to happen. But I am getting excited about the possibilities of the new Mac Pro.
I'm going to post my first spec in a long time.
This is my prediction for the highend version. 2x 3GHz Woodcrest processors.
2x 16x PCI-E lanes
3 additional PCI-E lanes
Graphics card options.
NVIDIA GeForce 7950 GX2.
NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT,
NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT,
NVIDIA Quadro FX 45, and 5500,
Possibility of Nvidia offering a video production SDI solution also such as the:
NVIDIA Quadro FX 5500 SDI
512MB RAM base - Up to 8, or 16GB.
Pioneer DVR-111D Superdrive
3, or 4 Hard Drive bays 2 of which hot swappable.
6 USB 2.0 ports,
2 FW 800
1 FW 400
Same case as the G5, redesigned internal setup.
The only problem is that if you're thinking SLI, it may not happen.
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=32523
While we don't know what is up Apple's and Intel's sleeves, if the Mac Pro uses an Intel chipset, which it most assuredly will, SLI could be out of the question. If it won't work with Conroe, why should it work with Woodcrest?
Well, it won't be long before we find out.