Supersize me with those healthy french fries

Posted:
in AppleOutsider edited January 2014
...Bu only in Denmark



A couple of years ago our government made a law against trans fatty acid, it was not to be in our foods, unless it was a natural component of the ingrediences (milk or other dairy products) and it had had its effect. Trans acid is a key ingredience in partially hydrogenated oils and one of THE most lethal stuff your food contains.



One standard meal at a McD now contains 0.5 gram trans fatty acids while the same meal in USA contains 11 grams. No higher price, no change in taste or smell. THe only difference afaik is a bit more restrict storage demands but, hey, McD didn´t complain here.



Perhaps its not all your life style but also your health laws that kills you?
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 42
    aries 1baries 1b Posts: 1,009member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Anders

    ...Bu only in Denmark



    A couple of years ago our government made a law against trans fatty acid, it was not to be in our foods, unless it was a natural component of the ingrediences (milk or other dairy products) and it had had its effect. Trans acid is a key ingredience in partially hydrogenated oils and one of THE most lethal stuff your food contains.



    One standard meal at a McD now contains 0.5 gram trans fatty acids while the same meal in USA contains 11 grams. No higher price, no change in taste or smell. THe only difference afaik is a bit more restrict storage demands but, hey, McD didn´t complain here.



    Perhaps its not all your life style but also your health laws that kills you?




    At a wretched point in my life (which coincided with the nadir of the hellish years of Clinton ) I only needed someone to paint 'DLZ129' on my flanks to bring reminiscent tears to the eyes of those who miss the age of the Zeppelin. Indeed had I traveled to Norway I'd have risked being flensed by whalers on vacation.



    French fries and diet coke bulked me up. Without them, I'm enjoying the Unbearable Being of Lightness.



    With your permission, I'm going to email your post to some friends of mine. Yours is news that should get out.



    V/R,



    Aries 1B
  • Reply 2 of 42
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,271member
    Watch it Anders or we'll all move to Denmark.



    I guess this means that in Denmark I can feel free to eat 22x the amount of fries I eat here. Supersize^4 thank you.
  • Reply 4 of 42
    spindlerspindler Posts: 713member
    The sad thing is that the reason they use trans fats is the very same reason it is unhealthy. Trans fats are used because they last longer in the bag and don't break down and change taste. But it's the same chemical properties that make them unhealthy.
  • Reply 5 of 42
    frank777frank777 Posts: 5,796member
    Canada was looking to ban trans-fats a couple of years ago, but it's largely symbolic now.



    Denmark has done the heavy lifting for us, while the knowledge of the dangers have increased exponentially. I personally avoid anything that has "hydrogenated oil" written on it.



    Also, the timing of this is not coincidental. McDonalds is preparing to put nutritional labelling on all its products next year. Once they get a few more recipes converted to healthier ingredients (and tested in European and Asian restaurants), you can expect to see an advertising barrage in North America next year.
  • Reply 6 of 42
    Trans fat's just the health-pretentious thing of the week to hate on, like Sweet-and-Lo or shampoo.



    Trans fat is very simple. You bubble hydrogen through unsaturated fat. The hydrogen then binds to the fat, and it is converted to saturated fat artificially.



    Trans fat isn't any worse than saturated fat?it is saturated fat. The problem was that it used to be labeled as unsaturated fat. People with cholesterol problems, who should avoid saturated and trans fats, would read the labels and be mislead into thinking the fat in the product was the healthy kind of fat, when in fact, it was healthy fats converted into unhealthy fats.



    A year or two ago the FDA required products to accurately label trans fats. Problem solved.



    French fries cooked in unsaturated fat taste like shit. Trans fat is pretty much the only cost-effective, non-animal-derived saturated fat.
  • Reply 7 of 42
    icfireballicfireball Posts: 2,594member
    Trans Fats are bloddy hell for your body.
  • Reply 8 of 42
    andersanders Posts: 6,523member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by gregmightdothat

    Trans fat's just the health-pretentious thing of the week to hate on, like Sweet-and-Lo or shampoo.



    So wrong



    Quote:

    Originally posted by gregmightdothat

    Trans fat isn't any worse than saturated fat?it is saturated fat. The problem was that it used to be labeled as unsaturated fat. People with cholesterol problems, who should avoid saturated and trans fats, would read the labels and be mislead into thinking the fat in the product was the healthy kind of fat, when in fact, it was healthy fats converted into unhealthy fats.



    The problem is so much larger than that



    Quote:

    Originally posted by gregmightdothat

    A year or two ago the FDA required products to accurately label trans fats. Problem solved.



    Since you can´t get the fact straight how do you expect anybody else to get it? Besides the rules for labelling is so flawed it doesn´t help anyone but those who already know how to avoid it from the ingredient list:



    -No hint about what fatty acids actually does to you (no recommended daily intake or advice to avoid it altogether. This label doesn´t suggest trans fat is any worse than protein.)

    -Probably the largest intake of trans fatty acids is from cookies, cakes, snack bars etc. Anything below 0.5 gr trans fatty acids per serving size is considered trans fatty acids free, so a lot of those smaller portion sizes fall under the radar. As I read the rules a small snack sized Snickers will be able to get the label "Trans fatty acids free" just because its a smaller size.

    -Another very high source of trans fatty acids is restaurants that are not required to label their food.



    Quote:

    Originally posted by gregmightdothat

    French fries cooked in unsaturated fat taste like shit. Trans fat is pretty much the only cost-effective, non-animal-derived saturated fat.



    FUD



    McDonalds fries doesn´t taste any different here than in any other country I have visited. And even if it is a bit more expensive for McD and others to make their products trans fatty acids free it is not in anyway to a degree that translate to a premium price for the consumer. If it did, then the prices for cakes and danish pastry would have gone up at the bakeries and it didn´t. Neither did french fries at McD.
  • Reply 9 of 42
    andersanders Posts: 6,523member
  • Reply 10 of 42
    toweltowel Posts: 1,479member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by gregmightdothat

    Trans fat isn't any worse than saturated fat?it is saturated fat.



    No, it's not. By the very name, it's unsaturated. Quick O-chem lesson: "Saturated" means that every C-C bond is a single bond, and all of the carbons are "saturated" with hydrogens. "Trans" refers to the geometry of a double bond - the neighboring C-C bonds are on opposite sides of the double bond axis, rather than on the same side ("cis"). Only unsaturated fats can have double bonds, by definition. Every unsaturated carbon is, necessarily, participating in a double (or triple) bond. Trans fats *are* generated by hydrogenation of unsaturated fats, like you said, but they aren't hydrogenated to saturation. For reasons obscure to me, hydrogenation causes conversion from cis to trans of some of those unsaturated double bonds. This might be the source of the confusion; else that trans fats are considered "bad", as are saturated fats. But they are trans-unsaturated.
  • Reply 11 of 42
    icfireballicfireball Posts: 2,594member
    He was probably refering to the fact that trans fats come from animal grease...so are through of to be a saturated fat...even if they are not really.
  • Reply 12 of 42
    toweltowel Posts: 1,479member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by icfireball

    He was probably refering to the fact that trans fats come from animal grease...so are through of to be a saturated fat...even if they are not really.



    They don't, though. Most animal fats are already saturated, and therefore cannot be hydrogenated. The classic source of trans fats is "partially hydrogenated vegetable oil".
  • Reply 13 of 42
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Towel

    No, it's not. By the very name, it's unsaturated. Quick O-chem lesson: "Saturated" means that every C-C bond is a single bond, and all of the carbons are "saturated" with hydrogens. "Trans" refers to the geometry of a double bond - the neighboring C-C bonds are on opposite sides of the double bond axis, rather than on the same side ("cis"). Only unsaturated fats can have double bonds, by definition. Every unsaturated carbon is, necessarily, participating in a double (or triple) bond. Trans fats *are* generated by hydrogenation of unsaturated fats, like you said, but they aren't hydrogenated to saturation. For reasons obscure to me, hydrogenation causes conversion from cis to trans of some of those unsaturated double bonds. This might be the source of the confusion; else that trans fats are considered "bad", as are saturated fats. But they are trans-unsaturated.



    Oh, thanks. I messed that up. It's been 8 years since my last bio class :P
  • Reply 14 of 42
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Anders

    So wrong







    The problem is so much larger than that







    Since you can´t get the fact straight how do you expect anybody else to get it? Besides the rules for labelling is so flawed it doesn´t help anyone but those who already know how to avoid it from the ingredient list:



    -No hint about what fatty acids actually does to you (no recommended daily intake or advice to avoid it altogether. This label doesn´t suggest trans fat is any worse than protein.)

    -Probably the largest intake of trans fatty acids is from cookies, cakes, snack bars etc. Anything below 0.5 gr trans fatty acids per serving size is considered trans fatty acids free, so a lot of those smaller portion sizes fall under the radar. As I read the rules a small snack sized Snickers will be able to get the label "Trans fatty acids free" just because its a smaller size.

    -Another very high source of trans fatty acids is restaurants that are not required to label their food.







    FUD



    McDonalds fries doesn´t taste any different here than in any other country I have visited. And even if it is a bit more expensive for McD and others to make their products trans fatty acids free it is not in anyway to a degree that translate to a premium price for the consumer. If it did, then the prices for cakes and danish pastry would have gone up at the bakeries and it didn´t. Neither did french fries at McD.




    "No, you're wrong. The problem is bigger than that. You can't get your facts straight."



    Wow, you've convinced me.



    Seriously, though, there's been no studies that have proven that it's bad or anything, (although I believe they unsuccessfully tried to prove a link to cancer.) Just people like you freaking out without any particular reason, other than that other people are also freaking out.



    Unsubstantiated group-think does not make you right.



    And if you're worried about a serving of cookies having less than half a gram of trans fat, that's just silly. The amount of cookies you'd have to eat for that to be an issue would be far less healthy than a little margarine.
  • Reply 15 of 42
    Quote:

    Originally posted by icfireball

    Trans Fats are bloddy hell for your body.



    No they're not.



    Quote:

    Originally posted by icfireball

    He was probably refering to the fact that trans fats come from animal grease...so are through of to be a saturated fat...even if they are not really.



    No they don't.
  • Reply 16 of 42
    brussellbrussell Posts: 9,812member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by gregmightdothat

    Seriously, though, there's been no studies that have proven that it's bad or anything, (although I believe they unsuccessfully tried to prove a link to cancer.) Just people like you freaking out without any particular reason, other than that other people are also freaking out.



    Huh? Are you just making stuff up for fun? There are a ton of studies showing links between trans fats and unsaturated fats and poor health outcomes, especially heart disease. Here's one of many. It's hardly "just people like you freaking out without any particular reason." More studies will come in, and will probably overturn current knowledge. But to say there aren't any studies showing this or that people are just freaking out for no reason is factually inaccurate and irresponsible.
  • Reply 17 of 42
    Quote:

    Originally posted by BRussell

    Huh? Are you just making stuff up for fun? There are a ton of studies showing links between trans fats and unsaturated fats and poor health outcomes, especially heart disease. Here's one of many. It's hardly "just people like you freaking out without any particular reason." More studies will come in, and will probably overturn current knowledge. But to say there aren't any studies showing this or that people are just freaking out for no reason is factually inaccurate and irresponsible.



    Read the thread. My position is that trans fats are no worse than saturated fats, and that worrying about the healthiness of french fries is laughable.



    That said, trans fats are only bad in excess. Provided that you're intaking the proper amount of unsaturated fats to balance them out (you can check this by checking your cholesterol levels), then trans fats are completely fine.



    Remember, while the uproar about trans fats is recent, keep in mind that margarine has been around since the mid 1800's. Provided you don't eat gallons of it, it's pretty safe.



    Also, I believe you meant to say "saturated fats and poor health outcomes." Unsaturated fats are essential.
  • Reply 18 of 42
    icfireballicfireball Posts: 2,594member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by gregmightdothat

    No they're not.







    No they don't.




    Yes... actually...trans fats DO come from animal oils and fats (almost entirely at least).



    And yes, Trans Fats ARE bloddy hell for your body. I'm glad you know what your talking about.
  • Reply 19 of 42
    Quote:

    Originally posted by icfireball

    Yes... actually...trans fats DO come from animal oils and fats (almost entirely at least).



    And yes, Trans Fats ARE bloddy hell for your body. I'm glad you know what your talking about.




    See Towel's handy comment above. Since you clearly don't know what you're talking about.



    Some trans fats are naturally occurring in the body, and are therefore found in meat products. Trans fat that's in products, though, is clearly labeled as "hydrogenated vegetable oil" (or soybean oil or whatever.) Not "hydrogenated lard."
  • Reply 20 of 42
    lupalupa Posts: 202member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by gregmightdothat

    Read the thread. My position is that trans fats are no worse than saturated fats, and that worrying about the healthiness of french fries is laughable.



    I think the point in bringing up french fries in the first place was to show that they do not need a relatively ridiculous amount of trans fats to taste good, and that they are simply an example of McDonalds cutting corners. Now I'm horrible at organic chemistry and absolutely nothing of a dietician, but why should there be 11g of trans fats when it's perfectly feasible to just have .5g? I don't think it is "laughable" to be concerned over needlessly accruing trans fat, when it could be quite detrimental to your diet.



    Of course, this doesn't automatically make french fries healthy or anything like that as they still have to be considered in context of what other things a person eats. But there's no point in tossing a can of margarine on your salad, yknow? (It's ok if you don't, I'm not sure quite where that metaphor came from myself.)
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