That's one thing that really made me want to build a PC: the fact that I could pay $1500 and get a box exceeding a $2700 Powermac, with every part I wanted.
Now I'm just hoping that a) Apple will price it reasonably and b) they haven't put in any intentional limitations to upgrading the CPU, putting a standard graphics card in, etc.
Which is why if Apple doesnt lower their MacBook prices, I will be looking elsewhere...
A buddy and former schoolmate of mine who happens to be a dell and HP reseller and I got talking about the "core duo/centreno duo" laptops...and we came to one conclusion, get the dell that uses the same MOBO chipset, GPU, well everything else except the wifi chip manufacturer is prety close to identical, for $799, bump it to 2 gig ram after you get it, and order the biggest HDD you can as a factory option then just buy the retail OSX fat bin and run it.
the EULA means nothing, I bought the right to use the software, I can use it on whatever device that I want to; I think this logic could easily win in court given a good enough lawyer, so it is just a matter of time.
Apple is a private company who sets their terms for how you use the software that they have sold you. Suing them in the PowerPC days for not having it run on Intel is, legally, the same thing you're proposing.
Apple will likely use the Intel 5000x motherboard(greencreek) it supports PCIe 16x and has Intel's verison of a TOE NIC. It's aimed at Workstations and has dual sockets for Woodcrest and support for FB-DIMM.
Apple is a private company who sets their terms for how you use the software that they have sold you.
Software is like a book, you are not buying the book, you are buying that copy, you can do whatever you want to it, read it, fold back corners, underline, hell, you can burn the thing!
Apple saying that I couldnt install OSX on a Dell, HP, or whatever would be tantamount to Simon and sheuster dictateing that I read their books only with GE brand light bulbs, and I could be sued for EULA violation if I were caught reading their publications under a Sylvania bulb.
Copyright law has this wonderfull clause called fair use.
And the EULAs are a pesky thing too, two huge holes in th eula thing...here goes
1: It is pretty much signed under diress, you paid for the software, you have opened the packaging and broken all seals and thus it is likly non-returnable, and you dont have a chance to strike-thrugh parts you dont agree to, or negotiate terms in ANY way.
2: How can you prove who agreed? there is no notery, what if I have a kid click the agree button, they legaly cant enter a contract...
Upon the release of 10.5 I see this going to court, and I really cant wait.
Suing them in the PowerPC days for not having it run on Intel is, legally, the same thing you're proposing.
No that would be like suing the makers of a square peg because it didnt fit into a round hole, now they are making a round peg, but they dont want it in a round hole that they didnt dig.
I think you over setimate the cost of components in a low end PM/MP
second-or-third fastest intel chip+mobo $300
case and PSU $150
video card $40-$60
RAM $50
HDD $70
DVD burner $50
MISC cables and wires $20 (assume OEM components dont ship with cabmes)
keyboard/mouse $25
box/papers/packing $5
so that is ~720
NOW factor in an OEM OS, lets just for the sake of this say that both WinXP or OSX cost $150
total cost: $870
and that is at consumer prices, not bulk
Dude, I seriously doubt that the PowerMac G5 case & power supply can be had for US$150?! I doubt either item could be had for that price as an individual item?!
And you know Apple spends more than US$5 for their packaging materials?!
Come on man, face facts? Good design with quality materials is not cheap?
Hence the 'Apple Tax'? If you want to roll with OS X, then you gots to pay the price, playa?!
I highly doubt you're going to see a legal way to install OS X on other computers without Apple's blessing. Here's why: There's a little chip on PC mother boards called a Tamper-Proof Module, which is used for encryption and stuff. Apple uses it such that a default Intel install of OS X requires the TPM on a Mac motherboard. To get around this, you have to heavily hack Apple's software. That hacking is probably not fair use, and even if it is, it violates the anti-circumvention clause of the Digital Millenium Copyright Act. That's in the US, but similar stuff applies in most other countries.
Additionally, books are sold, but software is licensed. Licenses aren't necessarily worse than outright purchasing. If I lose a book, I can't legally copy my friend's book, but I can install Win XP off of someone else's CD as long as I have the CD-key from my copy if I lost my copy of the Win XP install CD.
Upon the release of 10.5 I see this going to court, and I really cant wait.
It makes no sense that'd you'd say that and wanna run OSX.
The day that law passes is the day Apple throws in their cards and OSX folds.
There would be absolutely no point in apple making OSX if it ran on every machine.
They'd probably just shut it down and become a win software dev(maybe) but more likely just become a high end independant computer maker like alienware used to be.
Or just shut the company down sell it's parts and Jobs becomes the new Eisner.
Why you would want such a thing to happen in court makes no sense at all if you want to run OSX.
Apple saying that I couldnt install OSX on a Dell, HP, or whatever?
BLAH, BLAH, BLAH?
Upon the release of 10.5 I see this going to court, and I really cant wait.
They don't allow it because they also sell these little things called computers?
Get over it, OS X is for Apple branded units only?
Until Steve announces licensing to a select group of five top-tier PC makers, and only on specific models (read: special Apple TPM units)? Apple makes $$$ off of OS licensing & TPM modules? More from making iLife an add-in (like iWork currently is?) for these 'clones'?
I predict the five as being Dell, HP, Sony, Toshiba & Fujitsu?
But I hope that I am totally wrong, and none get the chance to play with OS X unless they pony up for some fresh Apple industrial design hardware also?!
Don't fracking like it? Then keep fracking walking!
Software is like a book, you are not buying the book, you are buying that copy, you can do whatever you want to it, read it, fold back corners, underline, hell, you can burn the thing!
Apple saying that I couldnt install OSX on a Dell, HP, or whatever would be tantamount to Simon and sheuster dictateing that I read their books only with GE brand light bulbs, and I could be sued for EULA violation if I were caught reading their publications under a Sylvania bulb.
No...right now, installing OS X on a Dell would be like photocopying the book and letting someone read this copy...which is downright illegal.
When you're buying OS X for Intel, you're buying it for your Mac since it only comes with Intel-based Macs...OS X just doesn't run on PCs without some form of hacking (at which point, it's not OS X anymore because you've effectively modified the kernel and Apple shouldn't support you in your quest to modify their intellectual property.)
I can safely say that no one in this world has bought a Mac mini or a MacBook or MBP or iMac to use the OS X copy on a PC. All of them have downloaded OS X from the net.
osx86project.org are huge proponents of stealing software. I really doubt more than 2% of that crowd actually buys anything. Most of them have pirated OS X and most of them pirate the OS X software...look no further than the Application forum and the Gaming forum to realize everyone is using cracks and exchanging serial numbers.
I doubt Apple will introduce a mid-level professional desktop for a lower price. On asked about the price of the iMac Steve Jobs once said: "We give you next year's computer for $1300 instead of last year's for $999." Apple has always lived by these standards.
I doubt Apple will introduce a mid-level professional desktop for a lower price. On asked about the price of the iMac Steve Jobs once said: "We give you next year's computer for $1300 instead of last year's for $999." Apple has always lived by these standards.
Steve doesn't get it...we want next decade's computer for $599!!!
I doubt Apple will introduce a mid-level professional desktop for a lower price. On asked about the price of the iMac Steve Jobs once said: "We give you next year's computer for $1300 instead of last year's for $999." Apple has always lived by these standards.
I'd hardly call dual core 2.6 GHz "last year" for a $1600-1800 desktop.
They don't allow it because they also sell these little things called computers?
Get over it, OS X is for Apple branded units only?
Until Steve announces licensing to a select group of five top-tier PC makers, and only on specific models (read: special Apple TPM units)? Apple makes $$$ off of OS licensing & TPM modules? More from making iLife an add-in (like iWork currently is?) for these 'clones'?
I predict the five as being Dell, HP, Sony, Toshiba & Fujitsu?
But I hope that I am totally wrong, and none get the chance to play with OS X unless they pony up for some fresh Apple industrial design hardware also?!
Don't fracking like it? Then keep fracking walking!
;^p
GM sells corvettes...they also sell after-market crate engins for corvettes; I can buy a Chevy big block and drop it in a Ford body (edit: at my own risk, and maybe void any warrenties), so as long as I buy the software, I fail to see a differance.
Comments
Now I'm just hoping that a) Apple will price it reasonably and b) they haven't put in any intentional limitations to upgrading the CPU, putting a standard graphics card in, etc.
Originally posted by a_greer
Which is why if Apple doesnt lower their MacBook prices, I will be looking elsewhere...
A buddy and former schoolmate of mine who happens to be a dell and HP reseller and I got talking about the "core duo/centreno duo" laptops...and we came to one conclusion, get the dell that uses the same MOBO chipset, GPU, well everything else except the wifi chip manufacturer is prety close to identical, for $799, bump it to 2 gig ram after you get it, and order the biggest HDD you can as a factory option then just buy the retail OSX fat bin and run it.
the EULA means nothing, I bought the right to use the software, I can use it on whatever device that I want to; I think this logic could easily win in court given a good enough lawyer, so it is just a matter of time.
Apple is a private company who sets their terms for how you use the software that they have sold you. Suing them in the PowerPC days for not having it run on Intel is, legally, the same thing you're proposing.
Originally posted by a_greer
I think you over setimate the cost of components in a low end PM/MP
second-or-third fastest intel chip+mobo $300
case and PSU $150
video card $40-$60
RAM $50
HDD $70
DVD burner $50
MISC cables and wires $20 (assume OEM components dont ship with cabmes)
keyboard/mouse $25
box/papers/packing $5
so that is ~720
NOW factor in an OEM OS, lets just for the sake of this say that both WinXP or OSX cost $150
total cost: $870
and that is at consumer prices, not bulk
Well...my price estimate was for an entry 2 dual-core Woodcrest @ 2GHz or 2.3GHz.
Originally posted by Placebo
Apple is a private company who sets their terms for how you use the software that they have sold you.
Software is like a book, you are not buying the book, you are buying that copy, you can do whatever you want to it, read it, fold back corners, underline, hell, you can burn the thing!
Apple saying that I couldnt install OSX on a Dell, HP, or whatever would be tantamount to Simon and sheuster dictateing that I read their books only with GE brand light bulbs, and I could be sued for EULA violation if I were caught reading their publications under a Sylvania bulb.
Copyright law has this wonderfull clause called fair use.
And the EULAs are a pesky thing too, two huge holes in th eula thing...here goes
1: It is pretty much signed under diress, you paid for the software, you have opened the packaging and broken all seals and thus it is likly non-returnable, and you dont have a chance to strike-thrugh parts you dont agree to, or negotiate terms in ANY way.
2: How can you prove who agreed? there is no notery, what if I have a kid click the agree button, they legaly cant enter a contract...
Upon the release of 10.5 I see this going to court, and I really cant wait.
Originally posted by Placebo
Suing them in the PowerPC days for not having it run on Intel is, legally, the same thing you're proposing.
No that would be like suing the makers of a square peg because it didnt fit into a round hole, now they are making a round peg, but they dont want it in a round hole that they didnt dig.
Originally posted by a_greer
I think you over setimate the cost of components in a low end PM/MP
second-or-third fastest intel chip+mobo $300
case and PSU $150
video card $40-$60
RAM $50
HDD $70
DVD burner $50
MISC cables and wires $20 (assume OEM components dont ship with cabmes)
keyboard/mouse $25
box/papers/packing $5
so that is ~720
NOW factor in an OEM OS, lets just for the sake of this say that both WinXP or OSX cost $150
total cost: $870
and that is at consumer prices, not bulk
Dude, I seriously doubt that the PowerMac G5 case & power supply can be had for US$150?! I doubt either item could be had for that price as an individual item?!
And you know Apple spends more than US$5 for their packaging materials?!
Come on man, face facts? Good design with quality materials is not cheap?
Hence the 'Apple Tax'? If you want to roll with OS X, then you gots to pay the price, playa?!
;^p
Additionally, books are sold, but software is licensed. Licenses aren't necessarily worse than outright purchasing. If I lose a book, I can't legally copy my friend's book, but I can install Win XP off of someone else's CD as long as I have the CD-key from my copy if I lost my copy of the Win XP install CD.
Originally posted by a_greer
Upon the release of 10.5 I see this going to court, and I really cant wait.
It makes no sense that'd you'd say that and wanna run OSX.
The day that law passes is the day Apple throws in their cards and OSX folds.
There would be absolutely no point in apple making OSX if it ran on every machine.
They'd probably just shut it down and become a win software dev(maybe) but more likely just become a high end independant computer maker like alienware used to be.
Or just shut the company down sell it's parts and Jobs becomes the new Eisner.
Why you would want such a thing to happen in court makes no sense at all if you want to run OSX.
Originally posted by a_greer
BLAH, BLAH, BLAH?
Apple saying that I couldnt install OSX on a Dell, HP, or whatever?
BLAH, BLAH, BLAH?
Upon the release of 10.5 I see this going to court, and I really cant wait.
They don't allow it because they also sell these little things called computers?
Get over it, OS X is for Apple branded units only?
Until Steve announces licensing to a select group of five top-tier PC makers, and only on specific models (read: special Apple TPM units)? Apple makes $$$ off of OS licensing & TPM modules? More from making iLife an add-in (like iWork currently is?) for these 'clones'?
I predict the five as being Dell, HP, Sony, Toshiba & Fujitsu?
But I hope that I am totally wrong, and none get the chance to play with OS X unless they pony up for some fresh Apple industrial design hardware also?!
Don't fracking like it? Then keep fracking walking!
;^p
Originally posted by a_greer
Software is like a book, you are not buying the book, you are buying that copy, you can do whatever you want to it, read it, fold back corners, underline, hell, you can burn the thing!
Apple saying that I couldnt install OSX on a Dell, HP, or whatever would be tantamount to Simon and sheuster dictateing that I read their books only with GE brand light bulbs, and I could be sued for EULA violation if I were caught reading their publications under a Sylvania bulb.
No...right now, installing OS X on a Dell would be like photocopying the book and letting someone read this copy...which is downright illegal.
When you're buying OS X for Intel, you're buying it for your Mac since it only comes with Intel-based Macs...OS X just doesn't run on PCs without some form of hacking (at which point, it's not OS X anymore because you've effectively modified the kernel and Apple shouldn't support you in your quest to modify their intellectual property.)
I can safely say that no one in this world has bought a Mac mini or a MacBook or MBP or iMac to use the OS X copy on a PC. All of them have downloaded OS X from the net.
osx86project.org are huge proponents of stealing software. I really doubt more than 2% of that crowd actually buys anything. Most of them have pirated OS X and most of them pirate the OS X software...look no further than the Application forum and the Gaming forum to realize everyone is using cracks and exchanging serial numbers.
Originally posted by MacRonin
[B
Come on man, face facts? Good design with quality materials is not cheap?
;^p [/B]
Ummm...you can get good aluminum cases bundles with PSUs fo like $150
;^p
You won bad mudda!
"Think Alike... BE Different!"
Originally posted by yamma
I doubt Apple will introduce a mid-level professional desktop for a lower price. On asked about the price of the iMac Steve Jobs once said: "We give you next year's computer for $1300 instead of last year's for $999." Apple has always lived by these standards.
Steve doesn't get it...we want next decade's computer for $599!!!
Originally posted by yamma
I doubt Apple will introduce a mid-level professional desktop for a lower price. On asked about the price of the iMac Steve Jobs once said: "We give you next year's computer for $1300 instead of last year's for $999." Apple has always lived by these standards.
I'd hardly call dual core 2.6 GHz "last year" for a $1600-1800 desktop.
Originally posted by a_greer
Ummm...you can get good aluminum cases bundles with PSUs fo like $150
But not of the same material quality & industrial design of the current G5 cases?
And I would be suspect of an equivalent PS for that price, seeing as how the G5 PS is a 1000watt+ unit?
Originally posted by NVRsayNVR You won bad mudda!
Did you really mean:
You won bad mudda!
As in:
You have won the competition of bitching about Macs?!
Or did you really mean:
You one bad mudda!
As in:
I am a bad mutha fracker?!
Well, if the latter, heh, of course?
But if the former, hey, it's not a competition, just a fun way to rant about my favorite computing company?!
;^p
Oh, and Hell Yeah I Won?! In your face, beotch!
Originally posted by MacRonin
They don't allow it because they also sell these little things called computers?
Get over it, OS X is for Apple branded units only?
Until Steve announces licensing to a select group of five top-tier PC makers, and only on specific models (read: special Apple TPM units)? Apple makes $$$ off of OS licensing & TPM modules? More from making iLife an add-in (like iWork currently is?) for these 'clones'?
I predict the five as being Dell, HP, Sony, Toshiba & Fujitsu?
But I hope that I am totally wrong, and none get the chance to play with OS X unless they pony up for some fresh Apple industrial design hardware also?!
Don't fracking like it? Then keep fracking walking!
;^p
GM sells corvettes...they also sell after-market crate engins for corvettes; I can buy a Chevy big block and drop it in a Ford body (edit: at my own risk, and maybe void any warrenties), so as long as I buy the software, I fail to see a differance.