Quite frankly , Canadians are the most underwhelmed by this announcement.
Best Buy has been selling Macs here for some time, and they have almost no software selection, poor presentation and uninformed staff.
They are a great place to shop if you need a VGA-DVI adapter in a pinch, or if they are closing out machines to prepare for new models.
Otherwise, they are a huge waste of everyone's time.
This is the usual situation with them. But this new push seems different. both companies have spent a lot of money on this, and it's possible that BB's management will pay attention to it this time.
NOT TO MENTION THE MOST IMPORTANT FACT OF ALL: BEST BUY SALESPEOPLE GET COMMISSIONS ON SELLING WINDOWS MACHINES!!! THEY WILL NOT GET ANY COMMISSION ON SELLING MACS!!! Best Buy salespeople are COMMISSIONED by the way of "SPIFFS"
This has been determined to be untrue according to statements made by Best Buy employees on several other threads.
Quote:
Originally posted by scotty321
People -- and especially analysts -- just don't get it.
At one point at least I know they got spiffed on service plans that they sell with those Windows boxes, and typically much mor so that the spiffs for other service plans. Even if that practice has stopped, job pressure is extremely high to sell these plans. And guess what? Apple's got AppleCare in place of BB's extended warranties, and it ends up stacking up against them, statistically.
The analyst is projecting an average of 12 macs/store/month. With that level of "success", canibalizing sales isn't an issue. How many PCs do they move? If they are talking about getting 3% of unit sales, well... that does very little for Apple.
Personally, I think that even with bad customer service, if Best Buy wants to move Macs, they could sell 20% without any problem.
With good customer service and sales support, the Mac sales could easily be 35%. Macs primarily lose market share in business, not retail/home sales. Hope it works...
A typical Best Buy customer is going to watch the three aisles of PC software and the five Mac software packages on the shelf and make their decision.
For the life of me, I can't understand what so hard in stocking three copies each of the twenty best-selling Mac titles and printing a complete catalog of Mac software available on their website.
They would make every penny back in CPU sales. So it's not the cost, it's laziness.
NOT TO MENTION THE MOST IMPORTANT FACT OF ALL: BEST BUY SALESPEOPLE GET COMMISSIONS ON SELLING WINDOWS MACHINES!!! THEY WILL NOT GET ANY COMMISSION ON SELLING MACS!!! Best Buy salespeople are COMMISSIONED by the way of "SPIFFS" -- paybacks to them from the manufacturers. Apple is not giving out SPIFFS, so there will be no Apple sales made. This is a waste of time, energy, and resources by Apple Computer. Moving into Best Buy is a HORRIBLE IDEA.
Can you point to a credible source about these "SPIFFS"? Every BB person I talk to swear they aren't on commission. If what you say is true, it would fail, but not because of Best Buy, but Apple not being competitive on the retailer side.
There are unsubstantiated rumors that the retailer margin on Apple products is among the lowest in the industry, if that's true then that's asking to be uncompetitive right there. No one is going to push your product hard if you don't make it worth your time, especially if a $1000 Gateway has twice the margin of a $1000 Apple.
Another thing to think about is that Apple may be trying to establish relationships with an electronic chain store because they are about to release more non-Mac products, like a DVR, iPhone, or vPod. Best Buy wouldn't be selling Macs, they would selling home electronics.
Can you point to a credible source about these "SPIFFS"? Every BB person I talk to swear they aren't on commission. If what you say is true, it would fail, but not because of Best Buy, but Apple not being competitive on the retailer side.
There are unsubstantiated rumors that the retailer margin on Apple products is among the lowest in the industry, if that's true then that's asking to be uncompetitive right there. No one is going to push your product hard if you don't make it worth your time, especially if a $1000 Gateway has twice the margin of a $1000 Apple.
Commission and Spiffs are two different things. Also, an item doesn't have to be directly spiffed, more often than not it's add on sales like high margin accessories and service plans to sell bundled with a product. Having worked in the past for a retailer that sold PCs as well as Macs, typically a couple years ago the Mac margins were as high or higher than comparable PCs; which is really not to say they are very good. The laptops, on the other hand, typically carried considerably higher margins, though I think Apple's iBooks had lower margins than bargain PC laptops if memory serves.
Again, it's kind of a red herring, as the managers didn't look to the boxes for the margin, they looked to the service plans, which could easily bump a 3% margin box up to 20ish%, more if you sold accessories or such (cables typically being the motherload, having up to 90% margin). The retail industry has long padded electronics margins with accessories, I guess figuring that once they've got you in the store for the low price on the big items, they can then gouge you on the nickel and dime stuff.
But yeah, the margins are still high on the AppleCare boxes but no where near as high as the store affiliated service plans.
Which can be translated as if they aren't carrying a bunch of Apple Software and Accessories, they aren't interested in making money off the Apple product, which is stupid because historically people that buy Apple machines tend to buy more in the way of software and accessories with their initial purchase.
Spiffs don't always take the form of cash either. Palm used to run programs where if you sell say 20 Palm Vx's and record the serial #'s, they'd send you one free.
What is the difference? It sounds like another weasel attempt to me, so sales people can pretend they are being honest in saying that they aren't getting commissions, but still is effectively a lie because the line is generally assumed to mean that sales person doesn't get extra compensation for making a sale.
Commission sales typically implies that you get little or no base salary, but make a percentage of the sales margin on the product you sell. Spiffs are a euphemism for selective incentives for salaried (or commissioned) sales people. Generally they are not paid out by the retailer/employer, but by the manufacturer, and only on select items?usually either something they want to push into popularity or old products about to be discontinued.
They are two different things, and it can be easily argued that spiffs are a bit less honest than commissions.
An excellent example of retail spiffs are AOL disks. For some time, CompUSA was offering it's employees $5 I think for every person they convinced to sign up for AOL in store. It got pretty embarrassing for awhile what CompUSA employees would do or say to get someone to sign up for AOL.
Another thing to think about is that Apple may be trying to establish relationships with an electronic chain store because they are about to release more non-Mac products, like a DVR, iPhone, or vPod. Best Buy wouldn't be selling Macs, they would selling home electronics.
Commission sales typically implies that you get little or no base salary, but make a percentage of the sales margin on the product you sell. Spiffs are a euphemism for selective incentives for salaried (or commissioned) sales people. Generally they are not paid out by the retailer/employer, but by the manufacturer, and only on select items?usually either something they want to push into popularity or old products about to be discontinued.
They are two different things, and it can be easily argued that spiffs are a bit less honest than commissions.
An excellent example of retail spiffs are AOL disks. For some time, CompUSA was offering it's employees $5 I think for every person they convinced to sign up for AOL in store. It got pretty embarrassing for awhile what CompUSA employees would do or say to get someone to sign up for AOL.
In most states, if not all, spiffs are illegal. Over the years companies have gotten into trouble for giving them out.
I'm not saying that they don't appear every now and then, but if it is caught very large fines are levied. It's the same thing as payola in radio.
Hmm that's the first I've heard about spiff legality. When did that come about? I haven't been in retail for a few years so I admit I'm not up to date informed. But even when I was working in retail they made sure not to call the spiffs spiffs, but that's the term I use because that's essentially what they are.
Hmm that's the first I've heard about spiff legality. When did that come about? I haven't been in retail for a few years so I admit I'm not up to date informed. But even when I was working in retail they made sure not to call the spiffs spiffs, but that's the term I use because that's essentially what they are.
Any incentive to sell a product "under the table" is a spiff. It's considered to be a bribe. It's also considered to be unfair to the consumer, because the consumer is expecting, and has the right to expect, unbiased information from the sales personel.
While it's questionable as to how real world that may be, with the prejudices every sales person has, at least, companies are not allowed to foster it.
I was hoping to find something useful in Google, but a quick search turned up nothing of real value. Some mention, but nothing that applies to this directly.
Hah good to know, and I'm glad at least there's some action against it. All though if you saw some of the training propaganda they throw at these sales people, you'd never ask retail sales people for advice again.
Hah good to know, and I'm glad at least there's some action against it. All though if you saw some of the training propaganda they throw at these sales people, you'd never ask retail sales people for advice again.
I never do. It's;"Do you have this in stock?" If yes, then; "How much is it?", and if necessary; "Do you deliver, and what does that cost?"
best buy makes big $$$ on extended warranties, so do they sell their own or applecare>>>\\ one thing i wish apple care did was allow you to extend the service contract like dell AND best buy or at least buy one for 4-5 years instead of 3 years.will bb have it's own apple support line....hmmmm
Well, Think Secret is saying Best Buy is gettings ASCs, so between this, and listening to the birds in the trees, I have a feeling Apple is serious about getting BB on board this time around.
Well, Think Secret is saying Best Buy is gettings ASCs, so between this, and listening to the birds in the trees, I have a feeling Apple is serious about getting BB on board this time around.
Comments
Best Buy has been selling Macs here for some time, and they have almost no software selection, poor presentation and uninformed staff.
They are a great place to shop if you need a VGA-DVI adapter in a pinch, or if they are closing out machines to prepare for new models.
Otherwise, they are a huge waste of everyone's time.
Originally posted by Frank777
Quite frankly
Best Buy has been selling Macs here for some time, and they have almost no software selection, poor presentation and uninformed staff.
They are a great place to shop if you need a VGA-DVI adapter in a pinch, or if they are closing out machines to prepare for new models.
Otherwise, they are a huge waste of everyone's time.
This is the usual situation with them. But this new push seems different. both companies have spent a lot of money on this, and it's possible that BB's management will pay attention to it this time.
It's always worth a shot.
Originally posted by scotty321
NOT TO MENTION THE MOST IMPORTANT FACT OF ALL: BEST BUY SALESPEOPLE GET COMMISSIONS ON SELLING WINDOWS MACHINES!!! THEY WILL NOT GET ANY COMMISSION ON SELLING MACS!!! Best Buy salespeople are COMMISSIONED by the way of "SPIFFS"
This has been determined to be untrue according to statements made by Best Buy employees on several other threads.
Originally posted by scotty321
People -- and especially analysts -- just don't get it.
Personally, I think that even with bad customer service, if Best Buy wants to move Macs, they could sell 20% without any problem.
With good customer service and sales support, the Mac sales could easily be 35%. Macs primarily lose market share in business, not retail/home sales. Hope it works...
For the life of me, I can't understand what so hard in stocking three copies each of the twenty best-selling Mac titles and printing a complete catalog of Mac software available on their website.
They would make every penny back in CPU sales. So it's not the cost, it's laziness.
Originally posted by scotty321
NOT TO MENTION THE MOST IMPORTANT FACT OF ALL: BEST BUY SALESPEOPLE GET COMMISSIONS ON SELLING WINDOWS MACHINES!!! THEY WILL NOT GET ANY COMMISSION ON SELLING MACS!!! Best Buy salespeople are COMMISSIONED by the way of "SPIFFS" -- paybacks to them from the manufacturers. Apple is not giving out SPIFFS, so there will be no Apple sales made. This is a waste of time, energy, and resources by Apple Computer. Moving into Best Buy is a HORRIBLE IDEA.
Can you point to a credible source about these "SPIFFS"? Every BB person I talk to swear they aren't on commission. If what you say is true, it would fail, but not because of Best Buy, but Apple not being competitive on the retailer side.
There are unsubstantiated rumors that the retailer margin on Apple products is among the lowest in the industry, if that's true then that's asking to be uncompetitive right there. No one is going to push your product hard if you don't make it worth your time, especially if a $1000 Gateway has twice the margin of a $1000 Apple.
Originally posted by JeffDM
Can you point to a credible source about these "SPIFFS"? Every BB person I talk to swear they aren't on commission. If what you say is true, it would fail, but not because of Best Buy, but Apple not being competitive on the retailer side.
There are unsubstantiated rumors that the retailer margin on Apple products is among the lowest in the industry, if that's true then that's asking to be uncompetitive right there. No one is going to push your product hard if you don't make it worth your time, especially if a $1000 Gateway has twice the margin of a $1000 Apple.
Commission and Spiffs are two different things. Also, an item doesn't have to be directly spiffed, more often than not it's add on sales like high margin accessories and service plans to sell bundled with a product. Having worked in the past for a retailer that sold PCs as well as Macs, typically a couple years ago the Mac margins were as high or higher than comparable PCs; which is really not to say they are very good. The laptops, on the other hand, typically carried considerably higher margins, though I think Apple's iBooks had lower margins than bargain PC laptops if memory serves.
Again, it's kind of a red herring, as the managers didn't look to the boxes for the margin, they looked to the service plans, which could easily bump a 3% margin box up to 20ish%, more if you sold accessories or such (cables typically being the motherload, having up to 90% margin). The retail industry has long padded electronics margins with accessories, I guess figuring that once they've got you in the store for the low price on the big items, they can then gouge you on the nickel and dime stuff.
But yeah, the margins are still high on the AppleCare boxes but no where near as high as the store affiliated service plans.
Which can be translated as if they aren't carrying a bunch of Apple Software and Accessories, they aren't interested in making money off the Apple product, which is stupid because historically people that buy Apple machines tend to buy more in the way of software and accessories with their initial purchase.
Spiffs don't always take the form of cash either. Palm used to run programs where if you sell say 20 Palm Vx's and record the serial #'s, they'd send you one free.
Originally posted by ChevalierMalFet
Commission and Spiffs are two different things.
What is the difference? It sounds like another weasel attempt to me, so sales people can pretend they are being honest in saying that they aren't getting commissions, but still is effectively a lie because the line is generally assumed to mean that sales person doesn't get extra compensation for making a sale.
They are two different things, and it can be easily argued that spiffs are a bit less honest than commissions.
An excellent example of retail spiffs are AOL disks. For some time, CompUSA was offering it's employees $5 I think for every person they convinced to sign up for AOL in store. It got pretty embarrassing for awhile what CompUSA employees would do or say to get someone to sign up for AOL.
Originally posted by blue2kdave
Another thing to think about is that Apple may be trying to establish relationships with an electronic chain store because they are about to release more non-Mac products, like a DVR, iPhone, or vPod. Best Buy wouldn't be selling Macs, they would selling home electronics.
That's a good point.
Originally posted by ChevalierMalFet
Commission sales typically implies that you get little or no base salary, but make a percentage of the sales margin on the product you sell. Spiffs are a euphemism for selective incentives for salaried (or commissioned) sales people. Generally they are not paid out by the retailer/employer, but by the manufacturer, and only on select items?usually either something they want to push into popularity or old products about to be discontinued.
They are two different things, and it can be easily argued that spiffs are a bit less honest than commissions.
An excellent example of retail spiffs are AOL disks. For some time, CompUSA was offering it's employees $5 I think for every person they convinced to sign up for AOL in store. It got pretty embarrassing for awhile what CompUSA employees would do or say to get someone to sign up for AOL.
In most states, if not all, spiffs are illegal. Over the years companies have gotten into trouble for giving them out.
I'm not saying that they don't appear every now and then, but if it is caught very large fines are levied. It's the same thing as payola in radio.
Originally posted by ChevalierMalFet
Hmm that's the first I've heard about spiff legality. When did that come about? I haven't been in retail for a few years so I admit I'm not up to date informed. But even when I was working in retail they made sure not to call the spiffs spiffs, but that's the term I use because that's essentially what they are.
Any incentive to sell a product "under the table" is a spiff. It's considered to be a bribe. It's also considered to be unfair to the consumer, because the consumer is expecting, and has the right to expect, unbiased information from the sales personel.
While it's questionable as to how real world that may be, with the prejudices every sales person has, at least, companies are not allowed to foster it.
I was hoping to find something useful in Google, but a quick search turned up nothing of real value. Some mention, but nothing that applies to this directly.
Originally posted by ChevalierMalFet
Hah good to know, and I'm glad at least there's some action against it. All though if you saw some of the training propaganda they throw at these sales people, you'd never ask retail sales people for advice again.
I never do. It's;"Do you have this in stock?" If yes, then; "How much is it?", and if necessary; "Do you deliver, and what does that cost?"
Originally posted by ChevalierMalFet
Well, Think Secret is saying Best Buy is gettings ASCs, so between this, and listening to the birds in the trees, I have a feeling Apple is serious about getting BB on board this time around.
I hope so.