It's really nice that Apple fans are so loyal and supportive of Steve Jobs. And on the one hand I can understand his fear of getting beat to the punch by competitors, though his main reason for secrecy seems to be the kick he gets out of the big unveiling ("oh, and one more thing."). But that gag is getting old ((has been old), and the cease and desist letters from Apple legal and lawsuits against rumors websites are way over the top. Steve Jobs is at once Apple's biggest asset and its biggest liability.
One example: marketing the Mac OS to PCs in the early 1990s would have given Apple Microsoft's current market domination. There's still a chance now to be a major player in the OS market if they sold OS X for PCs. But Steve's preoccupation with selling boxes (hardware) will at best bring them back to their previous glory days of 5% market share.
I've been a very faithful Mac user since 1984 (my wife and I currently have a quad G5, MBP 2.16, MB 2.0, 2 Core Duo minis, Apple 30", 23" cinema displays, and 4 iPods). But I have to say that I buy Macs not BECAUSE of Steve Jobs, but DESPITE him.
David
Surely you buy Macs because of what they are. Steve Jobs makes them what they are.
If Apple, with it's disasterous management & lack of direction at the time, sold MacOS to PCs in the 90s it would certainly have gone the way of Wordperfect under Redmond's Juggernaut of Pseudo-choice. Not even Steve could have turned that around.
End to end solutions are what make Apple effective and therefore different to the other. It'll never be popular (too undemocratic) just better.
Yeah, look how well all those other MS competitors are doing! LINUX has to be free to be popular.
3-5% market share is fine. Apple make a ton of profit and great products. They should spend more time making what they already have work even better: software even more secure and robust, more stringent quality control, improving customer service, etc. Growing market share for the sake of it (eg. licensing OSX to PCs) is a baad idea. They could get to 10% maybe, but quality and innovation would go down if they got much bigger than that IMO.
NASA is refactoring the implementation of World Wind to a multiplatform API-centric architecture, both in .NET & Java. World Wind functionalities are being 'off-loaded' to modular components, leaving the API at the core. The architecture of these two implementations, .NET & Java, will remain identical. The intent is to allow plugins to be used as interchangeably as possible, i.e. via Python. This refactoring exercise will also allow World Wind to be accessed via a browser. The current estimated timeframe for release is 30 September 2006
I love Google Earth but World Wind is heavily used in Education and research and it has sucked not having a Mac client.
Back when Apple's computer hardware was different from PCs I would say "keep the secrecy"
Now, however, they are using the same hardware that Dull and HP and everyone will be using.
Ah, but that's the point 'murch. You can guarantee that the boards in the upcoming MacPro's will be unique (unlike a PC) and that Apple will have some hardware/software 'McGuffin' to grab the headlines on launch. By definition that requires pre-launch secrecy. Not to mention Jon Ive's latest masterpiece of industrial design....
.... Not to mention Jon Ive's latest masterpiece of industrial design....
What *has* Ives been up to lately? He seems to have gone under the radar. If we're talking exteriors, Mac Mini, iMac, even for the most part MacBook Pro, it's kinda well, the same. MacBook has some exterior tweaks, and a color change, and well, that's it.
We're expecting something big on the Mac Pro, but I fear a rehash of the PowerMac G5 is on the table.
Ive's is the *man* , but it looks like Steve has him chillin' lately.
Where's the big video about Ives talking about the Black MacBook? Eg. "You know, we've thought about it long and hard, and wanted to introduce a portable computer to the consumer that defies convention even while embracing familiarity... So then it emerged, almost as a butterfly from a cocoon, and the idea immediately resonated -- a black laptop with a glossy widescreen was the most succinct and beautiful solution."
Apple's target market is the consumer. Consumer computers are about one third of all computers sold. So taking that into account, Apple has about 8%(?) market share of consumer market.
As far as Apple selling OS X for PC's? There are probably two reasons for this. One is because they don't want people buying a computer for $200 that has only 128MB of ram and a crappy video card running their operating system and therefore making it run like crap. Another reason is if they know all the hardware that OS X will run on, they can take advantage of all the peices of hardware on the computers. Apple's computers aren't the cheap kind because they don't want to sell someone a computer that is below what they think a computer should act like.
I've only been on an Apple system since late 04 but I have enjoyed my computer and the "premium" that I paid according to most people has paid off because I don't have anti-virius running, and didn't have to buy anything to make my computer run the way it should, and I have yet to buy anything or spend more than 5 minutes per month cleaning my computer. The cleaning that I do have to do is because I save files to the desktop or in folders and forget where they are. OS X is great and part of that is because it is tied in so well with the systems with which is comes installed.
I'm not trying to start a debate about market share I was just saying that the market they target is just a fraction of the entire computer market. I also saw something with Steve Jobs on MSNBC where he said something along the lines of they aren't trying to gain a lot of market share, cause they target a small market and they know they do. But they seem to be making a decent profit from such a small fraction of the market.
Ah, but that's the point 'murch. You can guarantee that the boards in the upcoming MacPro's will be unique (unlike a PC) and that Apple will have some hardware/software 'McGuffin' to grab the headlines on launch. By definition that requires pre-launch secrecy. Not to mention Jon Ive's latest masterpiece of industrial design....
Not to be a jackass, but by McGuffin, I think you actually wanted to say surprise.
McGuffin according to dictionary.com
Definition: \tin film, a plot device that has no specific meaning or purpose other than to advance the story; any situation that motivates the action of a film either artificially or substantively; also written MacGuffin
Unless you mean to say that Apple will release hardware with no purpose in order to motivate action.
Another note about market share. I think that the numbers are inconsistant. If you base it off of computers sold, that won't take into account the older computers that are still used. I know many people still use Mac's that are upwards of 5 or 6 years old. Not too many people use PC's that are that old. The point is that most people buy a new PC much more often than a Mac, because their PC's start to bog down and they think it's because they need new hardware. Mac users buy new computers a lot less often. If they were to do tests on market share based on computers in use, I bet you would find that Apple has a bigger share of the market. Just my opinion, and wanted to share it, no matter how worthless it is.
When I first read this article the first thought that popped into my mind was Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory...
Seriously, I would love to see a well-made parody with a Gene Wilder-like Steve Jobs... Oompa-Loompa-like Apple employees. Slugworth could even be a Bill Gates impersonator.
When I first read this article the first thought that popped into my mind was Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory...
Seriously, I would love to see a well-made parody with a Gene Wilder-like Steve Jobs... Oompa-Loompa-like Apple employees. Slugworth could even be a Bill Gates impersonator.
Macs are still different hardware even though they share the same processor. The Macbook is in a way just a notebook pc, sure, but it clearly stands out in the world of ugly notebook computers. It feels unique. And the MacBookPro too. I've never even heard of another notebook PC with motion sensors to protect the harddrive, a keyboard that automatically lights up in the dark, a magnetic cable to protect the common "stumble on the notebook power cable" problem.
Magsafe may be a solution to a problem that really didn't exist. It's concievable that the problem exists, but I've never heard much of damage that arises because of a power cord yanking. It may have a second factor in preventing third party power adapters from existing because Apple is reputably not licencing the connector to accessory makers.
Other companies do employ motion sensors, particularly notably IBM and now Lenovo, but you haven't been paying attention because you exclude yourself from that market.
I don't think Apple was the first to make a backlit keyboard, but they do appear to be the only ones to integrate it to a notebook.
Another note about market share. I think that the numbers are inconsistant. If you base it off of computers sold, that won't take into account the older computers that are still used. I know many people still use Mac's that are upwards of 5 or 6 years old. Not too many people use PC's that are that old. The point is that most people buy a new PC much more often than a Mac, because their PC's start to bog down and they think it's because they need new hardware. Mac users buy new computers a lot less often. If they were to do tests on market share based on computers in use, I bet you would find that Apple has a bigger share of the market. Just my opinion, and wanted to share it, no matter how worthless it is.
Market share is not installed base. Installed base doesn't directly help hardware profits. There have been arguments about this in the past, there's no hard information on whether the "Macs are used longer" anecdote is actually generally true on a wider scope than Apple fan sites.
One could point out that there are only three or four computer companies that sell more computers in the US than Apple, all the other players sell fewer computers each.
People forget Apple is a hardware design company, not a software company. This is par for the course. Car design studios black out all their windows so photographers can't spy in. Movie studios on blockbuster films build only the pieces of a movie set necessary from the angles shooting that day so the extras won't go home and blog what they saw.
People complain that Apple is too secret out of one side of their mouth, and wonder why nobody can defeat the iPod out of the other. Duh.
Yes, but we know that the car is being built, the movie is being filmed. We don't have a freaking clue when Apple is going to put their Mac Pro out; this is a real turnoff to the higher levels of professional infrastructure.
The MacOS, were it released against Windows 1.0 or even 3.x, would have gained 90+% market share (assuming a competent productivity suite), and that would have drawn developer support. Apple's entire profit on a mid-range Mac is probably what MS makes on the sale of Windows and MS Office Pro, with MUCH higher margins and a MUCH MUCH higher volumes.
The assumption that if OS X were available for PCs that people would stop buying Macs is absurd. Yugos (remember them?) run on gas and take you places, and yet you don't see Mercedes Benz and BMW going down the tubes. In fact, it would increase Mac sales 10-fold at least, since many would-be Mac buyers buy PCs for practical reasons, and if the OS were no longer an issue would gladly spend the extra cash on sweet Apple hardware. And as for the $200 PCs, at least Apple would sell the OS to a huge market of below-$500 computers, as opposed to making $0 on them.
The secrecy is the reason the computer industry waits with baited breath when Apple says it will make a product announcement. The secrecy is the reason why Apple has such a small percentage of the computer industry but is talked about just as much as Dell or Microsoft. The secrecy is the reason why everyone is waiting with anticipation for WWDC in August.
Quote:
Market share is not installed base.
True but installed base does deal with software sales. A lot of the market share argument concerns the Mac loosing software developers.
So in this regard it makes a big difference if the 3%-5% is only representative of Macs sold within a given quarter and not representative of the number of actual Macs out in the world. That would be the important number for software developers.
Market share and installed base are commonly debated and hotly disputed. In this day and age I wonder if anyone really knows. I use a Mac and a pc. Just how is someone like me calculated in such numbers?
Magsafe may be a solution to a problem that really didn't exist. It's concievable that the problem exists, but I've never heard much of damage that arises because of a power cord yanking. It may have a second factor in preventing third party power adapters from existing because Apple is reputably not licencing the connector to accessory makers.
Other companies do employ motion sensors, particularly notably IBM and now Lenovo, but you haven't been paying attention because you exclude yourself from that market.
I don't think Apple was the first to make a backlit keyboard, but they do appear to be the only ones to integrate it to a notebook.
I tripped on my friend's Powerbook cord and it landed on the corner with the CD drive. $650.
Comments
Originally posted by davidahn
It's really nice that Apple fans are so loyal and supportive of Steve Jobs. And on the one hand I can understand his fear of getting beat to the punch by competitors, though his main reason for secrecy seems to be the kick he gets out of the big unveiling ("oh, and one more thing."). But that gag is getting old ((has been old), and the cease and desist letters from Apple legal and lawsuits against rumors websites are way over the top. Steve Jobs is at once Apple's biggest asset and its biggest liability.
One example: marketing the Mac OS to PCs in the early 1990s would have given Apple Microsoft's current market domination. There's still a chance now to be a major player in the OS market if they sold OS X for PCs. But Steve's preoccupation with selling boxes (hardware) will at best bring them back to their previous glory days of 5% market share.
I've been a very faithful Mac user since 1984 (my wife and I currently have a quad G5, MBP 2.16, MB 2.0, 2 Core Duo minis, Apple 30", 23" cinema displays, and 4 iPods). But I have to say that I buy Macs not BECAUSE of Steve Jobs, but DESPITE him.
David
Surely you buy Macs because of what they are. Steve Jobs makes them what they are.
If Apple, with it's disasterous management & lack of direction at the time, sold MacOS to PCs in the 90s it would certainly have gone the way of Wordperfect under Redmond's Juggernaut of Pseudo-choice. Not even Steve could have turned that around.
End to end solutions are what make Apple effective and therefore different to the other. It'll never be popular (too undemocratic) just better.
McD
Originally posted by aplnub
At 3% market share, that secrecy has really paid off for Steve.
commence holy war...
Yeah, look how well all those other MS competitors are doing! LINUX has to be free to be popular.
Originally posted by McDave
Yeah, look how well all those other MS competitors are doing! LINUX has to be free to be popular.
3-5% market share is fine. Apple make a ton of profit and great products. They should spend more time making what they already have work even better: software even more secure and robust, more stringent quality control, improving customer service, etc. Growing market share for the sake of it (eg. licensing OSX to PCs) is a baad idea. They could get to 10% maybe, but quality and innovation would go down if they got much bigger than that IMO.
http://worldwind.arc.nasa.gov/
From their Roadmap:
v1.5
NASA is refactoring the implementation of World Wind to a multiplatform API-centric architecture, both in .NET & Java. World Wind functionalities are being 'off-loaded' to modular components, leaving the API at the core. The architecture of these two implementations, .NET & Java, will remain identical. The intent is to allow plugins to be used as interchangeably as possible, i.e. via Python. This refactoring exercise will also allow World Wind to be accessed via a browser. The current estimated timeframe for release is 30 September 2006
I love Google Earth but World Wind is heavily used in Education and research and it has sucked not having a Mac client.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Back when Apple's computer hardware was different from PCs I would say "keep the secrecy"
Now, however, they are using the same hardware that Dull and HP and everyone will be using.
Ah, but that's the point 'murch. You can guarantee that the boards in the upcoming MacPro's will be unique (unlike a PC) and that Apple will have some hardware/software 'McGuffin' to grab the headlines on launch. By definition that requires pre-launch secrecy. Not to mention Jon Ive's latest masterpiece of industrial design....
.... Not to mention Jon Ive's latest masterpiece of industrial design....
What *has* Ives been up to lately? He seems to have gone under the radar. If we're talking exteriors, Mac Mini, iMac, even for the most part MacBook Pro, it's kinda well, the same. MacBook has some exterior tweaks, and a color change, and well, that's it.
We're expecting something big on the Mac Pro, but I fear a rehash of the PowerMac G5 is on the table.
Ive's is the *man* , but it looks like Steve has him chillin' lately.
Where's the big video about Ives talking about the Black MacBook? Eg. "You know, we've thought about it long and hard, and wanted to introduce a portable computer to the consumer that defies convention even while embracing familiarity... So then it emerged, almost as a butterfly from a cocoon, and the idea immediately resonated -- a black laptop with a glossy widescreen was the most succinct and beautiful solution."
As far as Apple selling OS X for PC's? There are probably two reasons for this. One is because they don't want people buying a computer for $200 that has only 128MB of ram and a crappy video card running their operating system and therefore making it run like crap. Another reason is if they know all the hardware that OS X will run on, they can take advantage of all the peices of hardware on the computers. Apple's computers aren't the cheap kind because they don't want to sell someone a computer that is below what they think a computer should act like.
I've only been on an Apple system since late 04 but I have enjoyed my computer and the "premium" that I paid according to most people has paid off because I don't have anti-virius running, and didn't have to buy anything to make my computer run the way it should, and I have yet to buy anything or spend more than 5 minutes per month cleaning my computer. The cleaning that I do have to do is because I save files to the desktop or in folders and forget where they are. OS X is great and part of that is because it is tied in so well with the systems with which is comes installed.
At 3% market share, that secrecy has really paid off for Steve.
commence holy war...
It has begun..... MarketShare Debate (tm) #5468
Originally posted by vinney57
Ah, but that's the point 'murch. You can guarantee that the boards in the upcoming MacPro's will be unique (unlike a PC) and that Apple will have some hardware/software 'McGuffin' to grab the headlines on launch. By definition that requires pre-launch secrecy. Not to mention Jon Ive's latest masterpiece of industrial design....
Not to be a jackass, but by McGuffin, I think you actually wanted to say surprise.
McGuffin according to dictionary.com
Definition: \tin film, a plot device that has no specific meaning or purpose other than to advance the story; any situation that motivates the action of a film either artificially or substantively; also written MacGuffin
Unless you mean to say that Apple will release hardware with no purpose in order to motivate action.
Seriously, I would love to see a well-made parody with a Gene Wilder-like Steve Jobs... Oompa-Loompa-like Apple employees. Slugworth could even be a Bill Gates impersonator.
it's all too perfect...
-Roy
Originally posted by Gm7Cadd9
When I first read this article the first thought that popped into my mind was Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory...
Seriously, I would love to see a well-made parody with a Gene Wilder-like Steve Jobs... Oompa-Loompa-like Apple employees. Slugworth could even be a Bill Gates impersonator.
it's all too perfect...
-Roy
Originally posted by palegolas
Macs are still different hardware even though they share the same processor. The Macbook is in a way just a notebook pc, sure, but it clearly stands out in the world of ugly notebook computers. It feels unique. And the MacBookPro too. I've never even heard of another notebook PC with motion sensors to protect the harddrive, a keyboard that automatically lights up in the dark, a magnetic cable to protect the common "stumble on the notebook power cable" problem.
Magsafe may be a solution to a problem that really didn't exist. It's concievable that the problem exists, but I've never heard much of damage that arises because of a power cord yanking. It may have a second factor in preventing third party power adapters from existing because Apple is reputably not licencing the connector to accessory makers.
Other companies do employ motion sensors, particularly notably IBM and now Lenovo, but you haven't been paying attention because you exclude yourself from that market.
I don't think Apple was the first to make a backlit keyboard, but they do appear to be the only ones to integrate it to a notebook.
Originally posted by scottie924
Another note about market share. I think that the numbers are inconsistant. If you base it off of computers sold, that won't take into account the older computers that are still used. I know many people still use Mac's that are upwards of 5 or 6 years old. Not too many people use PC's that are that old. The point is that most people buy a new PC much more often than a Mac, because their PC's start to bog down and they think it's because they need new hardware. Mac users buy new computers a lot less often. If they were to do tests on market share based on computers in use, I bet you would find that Apple has a bigger share of the market. Just my opinion, and wanted to share it, no matter how worthless it is.
Market share is not installed base. Installed base doesn't directly help hardware profits. There have been arguments about this in the past, there's no hard information on whether the "Macs are used longer" anecdote is actually generally true on a wider scope than Apple fan sites.
One could point out that there are only three or four computer companies that sell more computers in the US than Apple, all the other players sell fewer computers each.
Originally posted by McHuman
People forget Apple is a hardware design company, not a software company. This is par for the course. Car design studios black out all their windows so photographers can't spy in. Movie studios on blockbuster films build only the pieces of a movie set necessary from the angles shooting that day so the extras won't go home and blog what they saw.
People complain that Apple is too secret out of one side of their mouth, and wonder why nobody can defeat the iPod out of the other. Duh.
Yes, but we know that the car is being built, the movie is being filmed. We don't have a freaking clue when Apple is going to put their Mac Pro out; this is a real turnoff to the higher levels of professional infrastructure.
The assumption that if OS X were available for PCs that people would stop buying Macs is absurd. Yugos (remember them?) run on gas and take you places, and yet you don't see Mercedes Benz and BMW going down the tubes. In fact, it would increase Mac sales 10-fold at least, since many would-be Mac buyers buy PCs for practical reasons, and if the OS were no longer an issue would gladly spend the extra cash on sweet Apple hardware. And as for the $200 PCs, at least Apple would sell the OS to a huge market of below-$500 computers, as opposed to making $0 on them.
David
Market share is not installed base.
True but installed base does deal with software sales. A lot of the market share argument concerns the Mac loosing software developers.
So in this regard it makes a big difference if the 3%-5% is only representative of Macs sold within a given quarter and not representative of the number of actual Macs out in the world. That would be the important number for software developers.
Originally posted by JeffDM
Magsafe may be a solution to a problem that really didn't exist. It's concievable that the problem exists, but I've never heard much of damage that arises because of a power cord yanking. It may have a second factor in preventing third party power adapters from existing because Apple is reputably not licencing the connector to accessory makers.
Other companies do employ motion sensors, particularly notably IBM and now Lenovo, but you haven't been paying attention because you exclude yourself from that market.
I don't think Apple was the first to make a backlit keyboard, but they do appear to be the only ones to integrate it to a notebook.
I tripped on my friend's Powerbook cord and it landed on the corner with the CD drive. $650.