Is the iMac a mistake
I asked a lot of my PC friends what would stop them from buying a Mac now that Mac's are x86 based and can run both OSX and Windows. Most said something along the lines of "I like the mac design but the price is too high, if they brought the price down I'd buy one".
We'll what about the mini or the imac?
A mini is not something a lot of them want to replace their tower with. Let's just say it has something to do with not feeling like you are getting as much for their money as a cheap full sized tower that can be upgraded easily.
As for the imac, it's kind of the same way. Everything is all in one. And while Apple touts this as a feature, many PC users (at least my friends anyway)see it as a hindrance. They want to be able to swap out optical drives and hard drives and video cards and monitors without having everything be external. And they don't or can't pay $2000+ dollars to do it. And these people are not die hard computer users/gamers either. Just regular joe's and jane's.
So while the imac is nice for some people I think it's a mistake for Apple to make it the only mid range machine they offer. And it's probably getting in the way of Apple bringing out a lower cost tower for switchers. A tower in the $600-$1200 range. Something that would actually entice PC users to switch. And you've got to think Apple probably knows this already, how can they not, they just don't care. The question is... Why? Why would they advertise and put up that big switch campaign and not release a lower cost tower? Trying to get PC users to switch without offering them the product that would get them to switch is ridiculous.
We'll what about the mini or the imac?
A mini is not something a lot of them want to replace their tower with. Let's just say it has something to do with not feeling like you are getting as much for their money as a cheap full sized tower that can be upgraded easily.
As for the imac, it's kind of the same way. Everything is all in one. And while Apple touts this as a feature, many PC users (at least my friends anyway)see it as a hindrance. They want to be able to swap out optical drives and hard drives and video cards and monitors without having everything be external. And they don't or can't pay $2000+ dollars to do it. And these people are not die hard computer users/gamers either. Just regular joe's and jane's.
So while the imac is nice for some people I think it's a mistake for Apple to make it the only mid range machine they offer. And it's probably getting in the way of Apple bringing out a lower cost tower for switchers. A tower in the $600-$1200 range. Something that would actually entice PC users to switch. And you've got to think Apple probably knows this already, how can they not, they just don't care. The question is... Why? Why would they advertise and put up that big switch campaign and not release a lower cost tower? Trying to get PC users to switch without offering them the product that would get them to switch is ridiculous.
Comments
For your friends who are considering building a cheap PC tower, I would suggest to them that they don't. I did the same thing a few months ago, and it's perfect apart from one thing: It doesn't run the mac OS, which makes it unacceptable. Where, oh where is the Mac Pro!?!
David
Originally posted by ApplePi
I asked a lot of my PC friends what would stop them from buying a Mac now that Mac's are x86 based and can run both OSX and Windows. Most said something along the lines of "I like the mac design but the price is too high, if they brought the price down I'd buy one".
We'll what about the mini or the imac?
A mini is not something a lot of them want to replace their tower with. Let's just say it has something to do with not feeling like you are getting as much for their money as a cheap full sized tower that can be upgraded easily.
As for the imac, it's kind of the same way. Everything is all in one. And while Apple touts this as a feature, many PC users (at least my friends anyway)see it as a hindrance. They want to be able to swap out optical drives and hard drives and video cards and monitors without having everything be external. And they don't or can't pay $2000+ dollars to do it. And these people are not die hard computer users/gamers either. Just regular joe's and jane's.
So while the imac is nice for some people I think it's a mistake for Apple to make it the only mid range machine they offer. And it's probably getting in the way of Apple bringing out a lower cost tower for switchers. A tower in the $600-$1200 range. Something that would actually entice PC users to switch. And you've got to think Apple probably knows this already, how can they not, they just don't care. The question is... Why? Why would they advertise and put up that big switch campaign and not release a lower cost tower? Trying to get PC users to switch without offering them the product that would get them to switch is ridiculous.
You have a lot of cheap friends. In all honesty, the "this is just out of my price range" group of people are the same people who spend more on coffee, booze and other "luxuries" in a few months than they want to spend on electronics.
In short, they were never interested in a Mac, the platform nor the company.
Originally posted by ApplePi
As for the imac, it's kind of the same way. Everything is all in one. And while Apple touts this as a feature, many PC users (at least my friends anyway)see it as a hindrance. They want to be able to swap out optical drives and hard drives and video cards and monitors without having everything be external. And they don't or can't pay $2000+ dollars to do it. And these people are not die hard computer users/gamers either. Just regular joe's and jane's.
I can understand that sentiment. For years, I too always bought my PCs making sure they were always upgradeable. I even made my own from scratch once. But in all those years, with all those PC, only once did I ever upgrade a component. In one PC I upgraded the memory. With every other PC, I simply bought a new one (every 2 years or so) when the old one wasn't performing the way I wanted it to. So I have to wonder, how many times have your friends actually done this? Are these regular joes and janes really taking the same Dell or Gateway or whatever and over the years keeping the same PC and swapping out memory, hard drives, video components...constantly making their PCs better by replacing old parts with newer ones? I don't know, maybe they are. Just curious.
I got my first Mac a month ago and I haven't looked back.
Originally posted by mdriftmeyer
You have a lot of cheap friends. In all honesty, the "this is just out of my price range" group of people are the same people who spend more on coffee, booze and other "luxuries" in a few months than they want to spend on electronics.
I don't think they are as cheap as they are realistic. Most of my friends are in their mid to late 20's. They make $10-18 an hour on average and have apartments and cars to pay for. Some have kids. They just don't have the money to spend $2000 on a computer every couple of years. I guess if they really tried they could, but as you said then they wouldn't be able to enjoy some of the other things in life. Not everybody spends every last dime they have on a computer, they have other bills and hobbies they need to spend their money on too.
In short, they were never interested in a Mac, the platform nor the company. [/B]
That sounds like something somebody in a cult would say.
I mean why should they care about the platform and the company? They have other things to care about. There are more important things in life. Isn't that the point of a Mac, so you can go out and live your life and not have to worry about your computer?
Originally posted by dac0nvu
Are these regular joes and janes really taking the same Dell or Gateway or whatever and over the years keeping the same PC and swapping out memory, hard drives, video components...constantly making their PCs better by replacing old parts with newer ones? I don't know, maybe they are. Just curious.
No I don't think they really are. But I do think everybody likes the option to be able to. It is a major selling point if a computer is upgradable because it's basically like saying it has an extended life. If you buy a 17" imac and later decide you want a 20" monitor you can't resell your old 17" because it's attached to your computer. But for the most part I think you're right, most people will never upgrade until they buy a totally new machine, but they like to know they can and some have changed out optical drives and hard drives over the years. I know for sure because I did the swapping for them.
Originally posted by ApplePi
No I don't think they really are. But I do think everybody likes the option to be able to. It is a major selling point if a computer is upgradable because it's basically like saying it has an extended life. If you buy a 17" imac and later decide you want a 20" monitor you can't resell your old 17" because it's attached to your computer. But for the most part I think you're right, most people will never upgrade until they buy a totally new machine, but they like to know they can and some have changed out optical drives and hard drives over the years. I know for sure because I did the swapping for them.
I can see it from several angles.
Macs historically have had decent resale values, so selling the thing and buying the bigger one doesn't hurt so much. PCs depreciate more than twice as quickly, so usually it's not an option to do that until it's dying or too slow for its current use.
What I've been doing since maybe 2000 is buying old x86 workstations. Sometimes I've added memory but I've also populated the second CPU slot/socket and they serve me extremely well from a reliability standpoint, and they are usually good performers, often including performance features and faster hard drives.
As far as upgrading run-of-the-mill PCs, I often use them long enough that if I need to upgrade something, I might as well sell it and get an entirely different computer because everything increases in speed. Upgrading a CPU and making it worthwhile often means a new main board, and even if the memory connector standard is the same, there's no sense in saddling the upgraded computer with older, slower memory, so new memory is needed. A new CPU also can mean needing to upgrade the power supply. While we're at it, the graphics speed could use a boost, assuming there's a choice if the graphic standard hasn't meant a new slot type, and why saddle the computer with an old hard drive?
One thing that's bad about the iSight iMacs (last rev G5 & Core Duo) is that replacing the drive is more of a chore than with the older G5 iMacs.
Originally posted by ApplePi
I asked a lot of my PC friends what would stop them from buying a Mac now that Mac's are x86 based and can run both OSX and Windows. Most said something along the lines of "I like the mac design but the price is too high, if they brought the price down I'd buy one".
I don't really buy the price argument. As far as I can tell, it's just a ploy people make in order for you to stop bugging them about macs.
Show me a PC similar to the iMac. The ones that are even in the same universe as the iMac cost the same, or more.
Originally posted by Splinemodel
I don't really buy the price argument. As far as I can tell, it's just a ploy people make in order for you to stop bugging them about macs.
Show me a PC similar to the iMac. The ones that are even in the same universe as the iMac cost the same, or more.
I think that shows that not a whole lot of people care much about a particular form factor but the final price of the computer for what it does for them. If dropping the unusual form factor means getting a Windows unit for half the cost, most people just opt for the Windows unit.
Originally posted by JeffDM
I think that shows that not a whole lot of people care much about a particular form factor but the final price of the computer for what it does for them. If dropping the unusual form factor means getting a Windows unit for half the cost, most people just opt for the Windows unit.
It's nice to try and rationalize the computer market as a competitive one, but it's not. The market for Taiwanese Windows PCs is competitive, but the market in general is very much not. Cost has little to do with it, fear of change has everything to do with it.
Besides, the success of the iPod shows that a lot of people do appreciate good form. Certainly enough people to quadruple (at least) the mac market share.
Originally posted by Splinemodel
Cost has little to do with it, fear of change has everything to do with it.
There isn't much change if they are just buying the hardware to run windows on. Most of my friends at least wouldn't run OSX.
If Apple wants to continue to be a hardware company in the x86 world it has to get people to buy Mac's based purely the on the sexiness and spec's of their hardware alone. OSX having little to do with it. If people can boot into OSX that's just a plus for most. Like getting a free car wash with a tank of gas. Very few people even know what OSX is, but it can be an icebreaker.
Originally posted by ApplePi
I asked a lot of my PC friends.
Short answer: No, the iMac is not a mistake, in my opinion.
For what it?s worth, here it is.
I purchased my first Mac on September 4, 2005. I?d been strictly PC?s and Windows prior to this. I?ve had my 14-inch iBook for 10 months now, Never had a system crash, have Never had to reinstall the operating system - have gone through ?5? system upgrades, from ?Tiger? 10.4.2 to 10.4.7, every one of them, including the most recent, went through without a hitch. My iBook is the first computer I?ve ever named, and ?her? name is ?Genie.? Not that I?m advocating people should name their computers, as I am not.
What I am advocating, or the point of this post, is this - for the few extra dollars the Mac - any model - costs over a PC, and in my opinion, it is MORE than worth every additional cent!
I am biting at the bit to purchase my second Mac, an Intel 20-inch iMac
Bottom line: My only regrets concerning switching from PC / Windows to Apple / Mac are:
1. Not doing it SOONER!
2. There?s no ?IncrediMail? equivalent on the Apple / Mac side - Yet
Originally posted by Splinemodel
It's nice to try and rationalize the computer market as a competitive one, but it's not. The market for Taiwanese Windows PCs is competitive, but the market in general is very much not.
You can argue that, but I really don't see that, especially as one can choose from a multitude of, decent, complete, name brand computers for less than half the price of a base iMac. There are even name brand notebooks starting around that price.
Quote:
Cost has little to do with it, fear of change has everything to do with it.
That's part of it, but I doubt it's everything. It's a very significant investment.
Originally posted by JeffDM
You can argue that, but I really don't see that, especially as one can choose from a multitude of, decent, complete, name brand computers for less than half the price of a base iMac. There are even name brand notebooks starting around that price.
Which "Brand Names" are you refering to? Most everything aside from Sony and some of the other Japanese manufs starts life as a Taiwanese OEM. That is a competitive market, since more or less they're all the same. If you want style and quality, though, it's a different matter entirely. Someone who buys a cheap PC instead of a Sony is certainly not going to buy a Mac, and they're probably sick of hearing about it all the time.
Apple does well enough without having to resort to begging for sales. I tend to think Mac users appreciate style a bit more and quite honestly that puts us in minority. Some people think a big square box is still cool
Originally posted by ApplePi
There isn't much change if they are just buying the hardware to run windows on. Most of my friends at least wouldn't run OSX.
...
Originally posted by MrSin
Short answer: No, the iMac is not a mistake, in my opinion.
For what it?s worth, here it is.
I purchased my first Mac on September 4, 2005. I?d been strictly PC?s and Windows prior to this. (...) My iBook is the first computer I?ve ever named, and ?her? name is ?Genie.? Not that I?m advocating people should name their computers, as I am not.
...
If you like it or not, almost every Mac user (these i know at least)
get positively emotionally involved with his/her computer.
I don't want this to judge, it is just what i am observing
day in day out.
Originally posted by Vox Barbara
If you like it or not, almost every Mac user (these i know at least)
get positively emotionally involved with his/her computer.
I don't want this to judge, it is just what i am observing
day in day out.
Careful, I may resemble that remark
By the way, Thank You for sharing your observations
Originally posted by Vox Barbara
If you like it or not, almost every Mac user (these i know at least)
get positively emotionally involved with his/her computer.
I don't want this to judge, it is just what i am observing
day in day out.
I'll second that. I love the Mac, too. After 20 some years using PC's, the move to Mac was like coming out of dark, dismal clouds into the sunshine.
Originally posted by ApplePi
I asked a lot of my PC friends what would stop them from buying a Mac now that Mac's are x86 based and can run both OSX and Windows. Most said something along the lines of "I like the mac design but the price is too high, if they brought the price down I'd buy one".
We'll what about the mini or the imac?
A mini is not something a lot of them want to replace their tower with. Let's just say it has something to do with not feeling like you are getting as much for their money as a cheap full sized tower that can be upgraded easily.
As for the imac, it's kind of the same way. Everything is all in one. And while Apple touts this as a feature, many PC users (at least my friends anyway)see it as a hindrance. They want to be able to swap out optical drives and hard drives and video cards and monitors without having everything be external. And they don't or can't pay $2000+ dollars to do it. And these people are not die hard computer users/gamers either. Just regular joe's and jane's.
So while the imac is nice for some people I think it's a mistake for Apple to make it the only mid range machine they offer. And it's probably getting in the way of Apple bringing out a lower cost tower for switchers. A tower in the $600-$1200 range. Something that would actually entice PC users to switch. And you've got to think Apple probably knows this already, how can they not, they just don't care. The question is... Why? Why would they advertise and put up that big switch campaign and not release a lower cost tower? Trying to get PC users to switch without offering them the product that would get them to switch is ridiculous.
I do see your point but you get what you pay for. I don't have a problem paying the prices Apple sets on their systems because IMO, they are superior systems to PC's that cost a lot less. Apple doesn't make cheap sysetms because they have a standard to live up to. The people who are serious about computers and technology will see that they have to pay for quality, which Apple offers in abundance. It's also not like Apple systems are overpriced either, I think what they charge is still a fair price for their systems.
I don't think they are as cheap as they are realistic. Most of my friends are in their mid to late 20's. They make $10-18 an hour on average and have apartments and cars to pay for. Some have kids.
Some people will never get it.
They just don't have the money to spend $2000 on a computer every couple of years. I guess if they really tried they could, but as you said then they wouldn't be able to enjoy some of the other things in life. Not everybody spends every last dime they have on a computer, they have other bills and hobbies they need to spend their money on too.
Some people will never get it.
That sounds like something somebody in a cult would say.
I mean why should they care about the platform and the company? They have other things to care about. There are more important things in life. Isn't that the point of a Mac, so you can go out and live your life and not have to worry about your computer?
Some people will never get it.
No I don't think they really are. But I do think everybody likes the option to be able to. It is a major selling point if a computer is upgradable because it's basically like saying it has an extended life. If you buy a 17" imac and later decide you want a 20" monitor you can't resell your old 17" because it's attached to your computer. But for the most part I think you're right, most people will never upgrade until they buy a totally new machine, but they like to know they can and some have changed out optical drives and hard drives over the years. I know for sure because I did the swapping for them.
Some people will never get it.