Oh trust me...Apple can and may solder the CPU to the board. In fact, they may do this now just to spite you. I'll blame you if it happens.
It is all polotics now...if Boxx, Dell XPS/Aleinware, Falcon Northwest,and other high end builders use sockets and Apple solders, they will catch hell...and loose a TON of sales; the only reason that x86 won the CPU wars was because of the openness of the archetexture, any part is pretty much a component, it can be changed...soldering in the Mini or a laptop is one thing, but it will not be acceptable in the intel/x86 workstation market.
Specifically, do you have sources for the prices Apple paid Freescale vs. the ones Apple paid Intel?
I guess not.
$100 being a completely inflated price, since this costs Apple, what, $5? If even that.
Laughably cheap.
Comes as part of the chipset.
Yeah, woo, ¢50?
I'll give you those. Being as there was a gap of well over a year, however, that's not much.
Most of which came virtually free for Apple.
Actually, the source of the cost increase was from an article here at AI. I don't have it bookmarked, but I'm sure you could find it if you did a search. If i remember correctly the cost of the Intel chip was almost 2x the cost of the G4 chip at the time.
As far as bluetooth/Wifi, I honestly don't know what it costs Apple but my guess would certainly be more than $5 and it still doesn't change the fact that it WAS a $100 upgrade.
Laughably cheap? Maybe cheap, still an addition that cuts into the margin.
Comes as part of the chipset - True, but that is why that chipset costs more
Yeah, woo, 50 cents - Unlikely that 2 usb ports and digital and analog in/out cost 50 cents.
I'll give you those - Good, don't forget the additional cost of the faster RAM.
You discount all these things, but you have to remember, this was a $499 box with a very low profit margin compared to the higher end machines. All these small things add up.
On this news I'm afraid my worst fears will come to fruition. Instead of Mac Pro prices become more reasonable and going lockstep with the PC market, Apple is likely YET AGAIN going in the other direction; with an even higher priced tier. I had hoped Apple would offer a good entry-level mainstream Pro system for around $1,699. With an all Woodcrest line I don't see how an entry-level model would appear for less than $2,499.
I hope my fears are unjustified, but when I see current pricing of Woodcrest chips vs. Apple's penchant for premium pricing, I start sweating. So much for my plans to buy a Mac Pro.
On this news I'm afraid my worst fears will come to fruition. Instead of Mac Pro prices become more reasonable and going lockstep with the PC market, Apple is likely YET AGAIN going in the other direction; with an even higher priced tier. I had hoped Apple would offer a good entry-level mainstream Pro system for around $1,699. With an all Woodcrest line I don't see how an entry-level model would appear for less than $2,499.
I hope my fears are unjustified, but when I see current pricing of Woodcrest chips vs. Apple's penchant for premium pricing, I start sweating. So much for my plans to buy a Mac Pro.
Foo Fighter. The article said there would be a single processor version. I don't think Apple is going to waste a woodcrest in a single socket. I think the SP version will have a Conroe.
You guys are arguing about cost and upgradability over and over and over again.
The "Apple Tax" still exists, and Apple continues to value their profit margins highly. And they do weird stupid stuff like soldering CPUs on some models for who knows what reason. Remember our external perception and evaluation is separate and can be quite different to the internal workings and perceptions of the different departments within Apple itself. Not to mention a highly dominating CEO figure... So this all leads to quite a lot that is different to what we expect, and leads to the complaints we see regularly on the forums.
But the stuff that we enjoy about the Mac, yes, that also comes out of Cupertino, so, excellent on that part.
At the end of the day, maybe 1 in 20 posts are "sweet, I'm gonna get it" compared to the rest of "OMFG what a rip-off". And you know what? That speaks of the market share Apple has and will continue to have.
You can't get confused with the volume of computers that Apple is moving with definite increase in market share. Because, overall, the volume of other PC manufacturers is also increasing.
What are we going to be happy with?
1. More people using the Mac, by numbers.
2. Marketshare maintained at 3%-5%, maybe edging to 6% if possible.
3. Apple continuing to have healthy profits each quarter.
4. Stock price going up (what would make this happen?? Woodcrest Mac Pros??).
5. iPod/ online music and videos continuing to be strong and dominating.
What are we not happy with? Well, here's mine:
I personally have an issue with the Cinema Displays, they are outdated and overpriced. Ridiculously slow given the huge improvements/ sales/ price reductions of LCD panels in general, eg. as fueled by the World Cup.
I have seen at least 3-4 local Apple resellers in my city (capital city of a SouthEastAsian country) and they have the MacBookPro and iMac CoreDuo but I have yet to fracking see a MacBook. WTF
You guys are arguing about cost and upgradability over and over and over again.
The "Apple Tax" still exists, and Apple continues to value their profit margins highly.
At the end of the day, maybe 1 in 20 posts are "sweet, I'm gonna get it" compared to the rest of "OMFG what a rip-off". And you know what? That speaks of the market share Apple has and will continue to have.
You can't get confused with the volume of computers that Apple is moving with definite increase in market share. Because, overall, the volume of other PC manufacturers is also increasing.
What are we going to be happy with?
1. More people using the Mac, by numbers.
2. Marketshare maintained at 3%-5%, maybe edging to 6% if possible.
3. Apple continuing to have healthy profits each quarter.
4. Stock price going up (what would make this happen?? Woodcrest Mac Pros??).
5. iPod/ online music and videos continuing to be strong and dominating.
Investors would prefer to see Mac Marketshare increasing more than anything. AAPL was on a ride over the past 4 years because of iPod growth. iPod sales are still huge, but growth has slowed considerably, and look what has been happening with the stock..
Growth is what drives the stock price and motivates investors.
You guys are arguing about cost and upgradability over and over and over again.
The "Apple Tax" still exists, and Apple continues to value their profit margins highly.
At the end of the day, maybe 1 in 20 posts are "sweet, I'm gonna get it" compared to the rest of "OMFG what a rip-off". And you know what? That speaks of the market share Apple has and will continue to have.
You can't get confused with the volume of computers that Apple is moving with definite increase in market share. Because, overall, the volume of other PC manufacturers is also increasing.
What are we going to be happy with?
1. More people using the Mac, by numbers.
2. Marketshare maintained at 3%-5%, maybe edging to 6% if possible.
3. Apple continuing to have healthy profits each quarter.
4. Stock price going up (what would make this happen?? Woodcrest Mac Pros??).
5. iPod/ online music and videos continuing to be strong and dominating.
You are so warped. That "Apple Tax" myth it's not even funny any more. Give it a rest. The so called Apple Tax has been disproved many times over, but for some reason people keep going on about it like it's a given truth. It's just PC weenie propaganda now.
You are so warped. That "Apple Tax" myth it's not even funny any more. Give it a rest. The so called Apple Tax has been disproved many times over, but for some reason people keep going on about it like it's a given truth. It's just PC weenie propaganda now.
I guess I'm not saying that it is true, I'm saying the perception of it still exists. Just look at all the "I can buy a Dell cheaper" and "I expected cheaper Macs with Intel" posts littering this thread...!
Look at Chucker's "woo $100 extra buys me soooo much wooooo" - which Chucker, sounds like there is an aspect of Apple in the Mac Mini which you do not feel there is value for money.
I guess that's what I'm referring to when talking bout the Apple Tax, not that it definitely exists, but what is clear is that there is a widespread perception for a number of people that they do not get value for money buying a Mac.
Comments
Originally posted by krispie
The competition is between Windows and OS X, and changing the hardware hasn't affected that.
It does when people can benchmark the two systems more easily.
Originally posted by Gee4orce
Any idea what the thermal characteristics of this Woodcrest chip are like ? A Quad-code machine at 3GHz does not sound cool !
You mean Quad-Core?
I'm not certain, but I'm pretty sure it's a hell of a lot cooler than a Quad G5.
Originally posted by kim kap sol
It does when people can benchmark the two systems more easily.
No joke. I hope Apple was ready for this fact.
Originally posted by Gee4orce
A Quad-code machine at 3GHz does not sound cool !
To my ears it sounds pretty cool, but it does not feel so to the touch.
As onlooker said, I expect it to be substantially more cool than a G5 quad.
Originally posted by kim kap sol
Oh trust me...Apple can and may solder the CPU to the board. In fact, they may do this now just to spite you. I'll blame you if it happens.
It is all polotics now...if Boxx, Dell XPS/Aleinware, Falcon Northwest,and other high end builders use sockets and Apple solders, they will catch hell...and loose a TON of sales; the only reason that x86 won the CPU wars was because of the openness of the archetexture, any part is pretty much a component, it can be changed...soldering in the Mini or a laptop is one thing, but it will not be acceptable in the intel/x86 workstation market.
Originally posted by Chucker
Wireless and Bluetooth are worth $100?
What "many other included items"?
- the Intel chip cost considerably more than the g4 chip that it replaced.
- Bluetooth and Wi-Fi added standard (previously $100 upgrade)
- Front Row and Remote added
- Gigabit ethernet added
- Max Ram capacity was increased from 1 to 2 gig
- Extra USB ports (2) added
- digital and analog audio in/out added
- Faster HD (5400 rpm vs. 4200 rpm)
- Larger HD (60 gig vs. 40 gig)
- Faster RAM used
All in all, the mini was upgraded in just about every aspect for the $100 price increase.
Originally posted by solsun
- the Intel chip cost considerably more than the g4 chip that it replaced.
Do you have sources for this?
Specifically, do you have sources for the prices Apple paid Freescale vs. the ones Apple paid Intel?
I guess not.
- Bluetooth and Wi-Fi added standard (previously $100 upgrade)
$100 being a completely inflated price, since this costs Apple, what, $5? If even that.
- Front Row and Remote added
Laughably cheap.
- Gigabit ethernet added
- Max Ram capacity was increased from 1 to 2 gig
Comes as part of the chipset.
- Extra USB ports (2) added
- digital and analog audio in/out added
Yeah, woo, ¢50?
- Faster HD (5400 rpm vs. 4200 rpm)
- Larger HD (60 gig vs. 40 gig)
I'll give you those. Being as there was a gap of well over a year, however, that's not much.
All in all, the mini was upgraded in just about every aspect for the $100 price increase.
Most of which came virtually free for Apple.
can we finally get a "pro" machine that can be rack mounted!?!?!
this is really no longer an option for me, and many others i would think.
Originally posted by Chucker
Do you have sources for this?
Specifically, do you have sources for the prices Apple paid Freescale vs. the ones Apple paid Intel?
I guess not.
$100 being a completely inflated price, since this costs Apple, what, $5? If even that.
Laughably cheap.
Comes as part of the chipset.
Yeah, woo, ¢50?
I'll give you those. Being as there was a gap of well over a year, however, that's not much.
Most of which came virtually free for Apple.
Actually, the source of the cost increase was from an article here at AI. I don't have it bookmarked, but I'm sure you could find it if you did a search. If i remember correctly the cost of the Intel chip was almost 2x the cost of the G4 chip at the time.
As far as bluetooth/Wifi, I honestly don't know what it costs Apple but my guess would certainly be more than $5 and it still doesn't change the fact that it WAS a $100 upgrade.
Laughably cheap? Maybe cheap, still an addition that cuts into the margin.
Comes as part of the chipset - True, but that is why that chipset costs more
Yeah, woo, 50 cents - Unlikely that 2 usb ports and digital and analog in/out cost 50 cents.
I'll give you those - Good, don't forget the additional cost of the faster RAM.
You discount all these things, but you have to remember, this was a $499 box with a very low profit margin compared to the higher end machines. All these small things add up.
Anyways, you asked.. I told you.
I hope my fears are unjustified, but when I see current pricing of Woodcrest chips vs. Apple's penchant for premium pricing, I start sweating. So much for my plans to buy a Mac Pro.
Can wait for WWDC
Originally posted by Foo Fighter
On this news I'm afraid my worst fears will come to fruition. Instead of Mac Pro prices become more reasonable and going lockstep with the PC market, Apple is likely YET AGAIN going in the other direction; with an even higher priced tier. I had hoped Apple would offer a good entry-level mainstream Pro system for around $1,699. With an all Woodcrest line I don't see how an entry-level model would appear for less than $2,499.
I hope my fears are unjustified, but when I see current pricing of Woodcrest chips vs. Apple's penchant for premium pricing, I start sweating. So much for my plans to buy a Mac Pro.
Foo Fighter. The article said there would be a single processor version. I don't think Apple is going to waste a woodcrest in a single socket. I think the SP version will have a Conroe.
Originally posted by Chucker
Do you have sources for this?
Specifically, do you have sources for the prices Apple paid Freescale vs. the ones Apple paid Intel?
I guess not.
The cost for the mini's single-core Yonah was $209. I still am looking for the cost of the G4, but I believe it was around $75.00.
http://www.macnn.com/articles/05/12/...s.performance/
The "Apple Tax" still exists, and Apple continues to value their profit margins highly. And they do weird stupid stuff like soldering CPUs on some models for who knows what reason. Remember our external perception and evaluation is separate and can be quite different to the internal workings and perceptions of the different departments within Apple itself. Not to mention a highly dominating CEO figure... So this all leads to quite a lot that is different to what we expect, and leads to the complaints we see regularly on the forums.
But the stuff that we enjoy about the Mac, yes, that also comes out of Cupertino, so, excellent on that part.
At the end of the day, maybe 1 in 20 posts are "sweet, I'm gonna get it" compared to the rest of "OMFG what a rip-off". And you know what? That speaks of the market share Apple has and will continue to have.
You can't get confused with the volume of computers that Apple is moving with definite increase in market share. Because, overall, the volume of other PC manufacturers is also increasing.
What are we going to be happy with?
1. More people using the Mac, by numbers.
2. Marketshare maintained at 3%-5%, maybe edging to 6% if possible.
3. Apple continuing to have healthy profits each quarter.
4. Stock price going up (what would make this happen?? Woodcrest Mac Pros??).
5. iPod/ online music and videos continuing to be strong and dominating.
What are we not happy with? Well, here's mine:
I personally have an issue with the Cinema Displays, they are outdated and overpriced. Ridiculously slow given the huge improvements/ sales/ price reductions of LCD panels in general, eg. as fueled by the World Cup.
I have seen at least 3-4 local Apple resellers in my city (capital city of a SouthEastAsian country) and they have the MacBookPro and iMac CoreDuo but I have yet to fracking see a MacBook. WTF
Originally posted by sunilraman
You guys are arguing about cost and upgradability over and over and over again.
The "Apple Tax" still exists, and Apple continues to value their profit margins highly.
At the end of the day, maybe 1 in 20 posts are "sweet, I'm gonna get it" compared to the rest of "OMFG what a rip-off". And you know what? That speaks of the market share Apple has and will continue to have.
You can't get confused with the volume of computers that Apple is moving with definite increase in market share. Because, overall, the volume of other PC manufacturers is also increasing.
What are we going to be happy with?
1. More people using the Mac, by numbers.
2. Marketshare maintained at 3%-5%, maybe edging to 6% if possible.
3. Apple continuing to have healthy profits each quarter.
4. Stock price going up (what would make this happen?? Woodcrest Mac Pros??).
5. iPod/ online music and videos continuing to be strong and dominating.
Investors would prefer to see Mac Marketshare increasing more than anything. AAPL was on a ride over the past 4 years because of iPod growth. iPod sales are still huge, but growth has slowed considerably, and look what has been happening with the stock..
Growth is what drives the stock price and motivates investors.
Originally posted by Chucker
Do you have sources for this?
Specifically, do you have sources for the prices Apple paid Freescale vs. the ones Apple paid Intel?
I guess not.
$100 being a completely inflated price, since this costs Apple, what, $5? If even that.
Laughably cheap.
Comes as part of the chipset.
Yeah, woo, ¢50?
I'll give you those. Being as there was a gap of well over a year, however, that's not much.
Most of which came virtually free for Apple.
Woo, you should start selling your own computers since you have access to these wonderful prices that no one else does.
Originally posted by sunilraman
You guys are arguing about cost and upgradability over and over and over again.
The "Apple Tax" still exists, and Apple continues to value their profit margins highly.
At the end of the day, maybe 1 in 20 posts are "sweet, I'm gonna get it" compared to the rest of "OMFG what a rip-off". And you know what? That speaks of the market share Apple has and will continue to have.
You can't get confused with the volume of computers that Apple is moving with definite increase in market share. Because, overall, the volume of other PC manufacturers is also increasing.
What are we going to be happy with?
1. More people using the Mac, by numbers.
2. Marketshare maintained at 3%-5%, maybe edging to 6% if possible.
3. Apple continuing to have healthy profits each quarter.
4. Stock price going up (what would make this happen?? Woodcrest Mac Pros??).
5. iPod/ online music and videos continuing to be strong and dominating.
You are so warped. That "Apple Tax" myth it's not even funny any more. Give it a rest. The so called Apple Tax has been disproved many times over, but for some reason people keep going on about it like it's a given truth. It's just PC weenie propaganda now.
You are so warped. That "Apple Tax" myth it's not even funny any more. Give it a rest. The so called Apple Tax has been disproved many times over, but for some reason people keep going on about it like it's a given truth. It's just PC weenie propaganda now.
I guess I'm not saying that it is true, I'm saying the perception of it still exists. Just look at all the "I can buy a Dell cheaper" and "I expected cheaper Macs with Intel" posts littering this thread...!
Look at Chucker's "woo $100 extra buys me soooo much wooooo" - which Chucker, sounds like there is an aspect of Apple in the Mac Mini which you do not feel there is value for money.
I guess that's what I'm referring to when talking bout the Apple Tax, not that it definitely exists, but what is clear is that there is a widespread perception for a number of people that they do not get value for money buying a Mac.