personally i wish Apple would stop faffing about with iWork (with the exception of Keynote) and get behind OpenOffice.
But that's even more backwards facing and horrible that Microsoft Office. It's as good as Office97 was and not much better. It's slow, bloated and not Mac-like in the slightest. If you've really low expectations of your software then enjoy OpenOffice.org.
Well, iWork and MS Office have some significant differences in their approaches (and, thus, in the results). iWork is as thoroughly "KISS" as possible, whereas MS Office (and, surprise, also OpenOffice.org) tries to accommodate for every possible usage case, be it for the typical consumer or a homongous organization's user. iWork really only (or at least primarily) caters for the former, but it does so much better.
I'm still confident that we will see iWork expanded into a more complete suite, but it will never have the level of complexity Office has, and for good reason. It is this very simplicity that makes Apple's application design shine. They try to do just one thing, but do it well.
everyone forget about Crossover office? should be a beta out soon, and final relase out before new MS Office is out. Itll let you run the Windows version of office (and other apps) in OSX without having a copy of Windows.
Sure it is free. But it copies too much of the worst of Office. Designed by committee.
My hope is in iWork. I just hope Apple has the balls to take MSOffice on.
Apple, build it and we will come.
OO.o does (mostly) solve the version compatibility issue though, it will take in docs from more versions of Word with generally fewer problems than a contemporary version of Word will. Apparently it doesn't do anything for VBA but that's not an issue for me.
For me, OO.o works and that's what I care about. I really don't think innovation in an "office" suite is important, any more so than I need an artsy looking shovel for the BS around an office.
Edit: For Mac, I assume NeoOffice as OO.o itself doesn't directly support OS X very well.
Wait a second...won't the Dept. of Justice get pissed, at this anti-competative, monopolistic behavior? Or did Bill and Steve give Bush and his friends, including Attorney General Gonzales, a few trips to Europe and a new car?
This sucks. But I checked out NeoOffice, wow things are coming along! Can't until it's finalized! No VBA but hey maybe someday. Even still it looks almost as good as Office. I may even switch someday. I may have to.
Sure it is free. But it copies too much of the worst of Office. Designed by committee.
My hope is in iWork. I just hope Apple has the balls to take MSOffice on.
Apple, build it and we will come.
What you think of as a problem with OO, is the aim of the suite. The entire purpose was to make it as compatible with Office as possible, so that users of Office could go to OO and not miss a beat.
If you think that is the "worst" of Office, then you have seen what is intended to be its strength. If they could suddenly clone Office, and call it OO, then their ultimate goal will have been accomplished.
Wait a second...won't the Dept. of Justice get pissed, at this anti-competative, monopolistic behavior? Or did Bill and Steve give Bush and his friends, including Attorney General Gonzales, a few trips to Europe and a new car?
This sucks. But I checked out NeoOffice, wow things are coming along! Can't until it's finalized! No VBA but hey maybe someday. Even still it looks almost as good as Office. I may even switch someday. I may have to.
Yes, now that NeoOffice is at the current OO version is does seem much better.
For those not familliar with Neo, it is OO with an Aqua interface, also free.
The real issue for many (me included of course) is the compatibility in the near-term. This is what will effect purchase and use decisions. We would all like to see Office get better, or a replacement (and there are a number of possbilities that have been mentioned) but if its not on both platforms it can't even begin to be adopted. I'm interested in learning about the non-VB roadmap for Office on the PC. Does anyone have any links that are worthwhile?
There's no question that MS is deliberately shafting Apple with this move. As has already been said, let the OS war begin! Make no mistake about it, this is serious business, and this: "Although VB macros within files will not be accessible and cannot be viewed or modified, the files themselves can be edited without affecting or changing the macros." is a joke.
That said, it seems its really not too bad for us Mac users thanks to OpenOffice. OpenOffice, which I discarded after researching because it's basically an Office copycat, may in fact save the day because of that same "feature". If they maintain VB compatibility in future versions they will become the "new" Office for Mac.
In the short term, there's absolutely nothing to worry about. The existing Office is more than sufficient and OpenOffice may even be a better bet. I'm going to have another look into that.
In the long term, it's going to be up to Apple to develop iWork into something truly worthy of the platform, match Office's feature set, and maintain compatibility. And I can't believe that Apple would push MS's hand the way they have without being confident in what they can do.
If nothing else, it's going to be an interesting next few years.
There's no question that MS is deliberately shafting Apple with this move. As has already been said, let the OS war begin! Make no mistake about it, this is serious business, and this: "Although VB macros within files will not be accessible and cannot be viewed or modified, the files themselves can be edited without affecting or changing the macros." is a joke.
While I generally don't ascribe to those theories, this time it may have something to it. Even though MS won't be using VB in its own products after a while, this is too early to be eliminating it from Mac Office.
The one thing though, Mac Office is a highly profitable area for them, and with more Mac's being sold, they would be selling more copies of it as well.
I can only guess that as MS can afford to lose billions on the X Box, just to have a presence in an area important to them, they can afford to lose sales of Office on the Mac, if they think they can keep enough people from migrating, and thus losing Windows, and all of their other software sales as well.
As long as they continue to develop Office for the Intel Mac, they will have fulfilled their contract with Apple.
While I generally don't ascribe to those theories, this time it may have something to it. Even though MS won't be using VB in its own products after a while, this is too early to be eliminating it from Mac Office.
I agree with your first comment. However, the next Office:mac is not coming for a while. I call it Office 2008. The tenor and tone of Microsoft's announcement yesterday leads me to believe it may be later than that. MacBU may know that VBA will already be dead before then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
The one thing though, Mac Office is a highly profitable area for them, and with more Mac's being sold, they would be selling more copies of it as well.
Microsoft may want World Domination, but it needs profits. For years now, only three of Microsoft's seven business units have earned a profit. [IIRC, Microsoft is consolidating its operations to reduce the number of business units.]
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
I can only guess that as MS can afford to lose billions on the X Box, just to have a presence in an area important to them, they can afford to lose sales of Office on the Mac, if they think they can keep enough people from migrating, and thus losing Windows, and all of their other software sales as well.
That's just it. Microsoft cannot afford to lose billions on the Xbox. It is doing everything it knows to make a profit there. However, the Xbox cannot get any hotter than it is now, but it still loses money. When it cools off, where does Microsoft go. Losing Mac sales is not Microsoft's strategy for mitigating losses elsewhere. Microsoft cuts its losses by dropping non-revenue generating products like Internet Explorer:mac and Windows Media Player:mac. The situation with Office:mac is a case of Microsoft's past sins catching up with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
As long as they continue to develop Office for the Intel Mac, they will have fulfilled their contract with Apple.
The contract with Apple is strictly PR. Microsoft produces Office:mac because it has a significant positive impact on Microsoft's bottomline.
Comments
personally i wish Apple would stop faffing about with iWork (with the exception of Keynote) and get behind OpenOffice.
But that's even more backwards facing and horrible that Microsoft Office. It's as good as Office97 was and not much better. It's slow, bloated and not Mac-like in the slightest. If you've really low expectations of your software then enjoy OpenOffice.org.
I just hope Apple has a serious iWork upgrade in store for us, adding in the key missing features and making it fast as sin.
I'd love to dump Office all together for a superior product--sorry Open Office--and not care about Microsoft ever again.
OpenOffice.org, aka the-project-that-will-never-innovate?
Exactly the problem with Open Office.
Sure it is free. But it copies too much of the worst of Office. Designed by committee.
My hope is in iWork. I just hope Apple has the balls to take MSOffice on.
Apple, build it and we will come.
I'm still confident that we will see iWork expanded into a more complete suite, but it will never have the level of complexity Office has, and for good reason. It is this very simplicity that makes Apple's application design shine. They try to do just one thing, but do it well.
Thanks are in the craper at M$. How does that relate to what you quoted me on?
I hit the wrong button.
Exactly the problem with Open Office.
Sure it is free. But it copies too much of the worst of Office. Designed by committee.
My hope is in iWork. I just hope Apple has the balls to take MSOffice on.
Apple, build it and we will come.
OO.o does (mostly) solve the version compatibility issue though, it will take in docs from more versions of Word with generally fewer problems than a contemporary version of Word will. Apparently it doesn't do anything for VBA but that's not an issue for me.
For me, OO.o works and that's what I care about. I really don't think innovation in an "office" suite is important, any more so than I need an artsy looking shovel for the BS around an office.
Edit: For Mac, I assume NeoOffice as OO.o itself doesn't directly support OS X very well.
This shows a lot of promise: Tables
Does look promising. Gonna keep my eye on this one.
This sucks. But I checked out NeoOffice, wow things are coming along! Can't until it's finalized! No VBA but hey maybe someday. Even still it looks almost as good as Office. I may even switch someday. I may have to.
personally i wish Apple would stop faffing about with iWork (with the exception of Keynote) and get behind OpenOffice.
In the meantimeThinkFree Office looks promising.
Thinkfree is in no way a real competitor. Even Openoffice is lacking.
Oh well. Apple, could we have an iWork based iOffice if you please?
What do you need?
Exactly the problem with Open Office.
Sure it is free. But it copies too much of the worst of Office. Designed by committee.
My hope is in iWork. I just hope Apple has the balls to take MSOffice on.
Apple, build it and we will come.
What you think of as a problem with OO, is the aim of the suite. The entire purpose was to make it as compatible with Office as possible, so that users of Office could go to OO and not miss a beat.
If you think that is the "worst" of Office, then you have seen what is intended to be its strength. If they could suddenly clone Office, and call it OO, then their ultimate goal will have been accomplished.
I hit the wrong button.
You sure did, you're in the wrong forum.
Wait a second...won't the Dept. of Justice get pissed, at this anti-competative, monopolistic behavior? Or did Bill and Steve give Bush and his friends, including Attorney General Gonzales, a few trips to Europe and a new car?
This sucks. But I checked out NeoOffice, wow things are coming along! Can't until it's finalized! No VBA but hey maybe someday. Even still it looks almost as good as Office. I may even switch someday. I may have to.
Yes, now that NeoOffice is at the current OO version is does seem much better.
For those not familliar with Neo, it is OO with an Aqua interface, also free.
What do you need?
Office evolved.
Office evolved.
The real issue for many (me included of course) is the compatibility in the near-term. This is what will effect purchase and use decisions. We would all like to see Office get better, or a replacement (and there are a number of possbilities that have been mentioned) but if its not on both platforms it can't even begin to be adopted. I'm interested in learning about the non-VB roadmap for Office on the PC. Does anyone have any links that are worthwhile?
That said, it seems its really not too bad for us Mac users thanks to OpenOffice. OpenOffice, which I discarded after researching because it's basically an Office copycat, may in fact save the day because of that same "feature". If they maintain VB compatibility in future versions they will become the "new" Office for Mac.
In the short term, there's absolutely nothing to worry about. The existing Office is more than sufficient and OpenOffice may even be a better bet. I'm going to have another look into that.
In the long term, it's going to be up to Apple to develop iWork into something truly worthy of the platform, match Office's feature set, and maintain compatibility. And I can't believe that Apple would push MS's hand the way they have without being confident in what they can do.
If nothing else, it's going to be an interesting next few years.
There's no question that MS is deliberately shafting Apple with this move. As has already been said, let the OS war begin! Make no mistake about it, this is serious business, and this: "Although VB macros within files will not be accessible and cannot be viewed or modified, the files themselves can be edited without affecting or changing the macros." is a joke.
While I generally don't ascribe to those theories, this time it may have something to it. Even though MS won't be using VB in its own products after a while, this is too early to be eliminating it from Mac Office.
The one thing though, Mac Office is a highly profitable area for them, and with more Mac's being sold, they would be selling more copies of it as well.
I can only guess that as MS can afford to lose billions on the X Box, just to have a presence in an area important to them, they can afford to lose sales of Office on the Mac, if they think they can keep enough people from migrating, and thus losing Windows, and all of their other software sales as well.
As long as they continue to develop Office for the Intel Mac, they will have fulfilled their contract with Apple.
While I generally don't ascribe to those theories, this time it may have something to it. Even though MS won't be using VB in its own products after a while, this is too early to be eliminating it from Mac Office.
I agree with your first comment. However, the next Office:mac is not coming for a while. I call it Office 2008. The tenor and tone of Microsoft's announcement yesterday leads me to believe it may be later than that. MacBU may know that VBA will already be dead before then.
The one thing though, Mac Office is a highly profitable area for them, and with more Mac's being sold, they would be selling more copies of it as well.
Microsoft may want World Domination, but it needs profits. For years now, only three of Microsoft's seven business units have earned a profit. [IIRC, Microsoft is consolidating its operations to reduce the number of business units.]
I can only guess that as MS can afford to lose billions on the X Box, just to have a presence in an area important to them, they can afford to lose sales of Office on the Mac, if they think they can keep enough people from migrating, and thus losing Windows, and all of their other software sales as well.
That's just it. Microsoft cannot afford to lose billions on the Xbox. It is doing everything it knows to make a profit there. However, the Xbox cannot get any hotter than it is now, but it still loses money. When it cools off, where does Microsoft go. Losing Mac sales is not Microsoft's strategy for mitigating losses elsewhere. Microsoft cuts its losses by dropping non-revenue generating products like Internet Explorer:mac and Windows Media Player:mac. The situation with Office:mac is a case of Microsoft's past sins catching up with it.
As long as they continue to develop Office for the Intel Mac, they will have fulfilled their contract with Apple.
The contract with Apple is strictly PR. Microsoft produces Office:mac because it has a significant positive impact on Microsoft's bottomline.