23" ACD - Would I be disappointed
I'm thinking of getting a Mac Pro, and if I did, I would hope at some point to get a new screen for it. With edu discount, the 23" Apple and the 24" Dell are about the same size. Now, I know the Dell is a bit bigger, a little bit cheaper and slightly brighter with more inputs, but what about the intangibles?
Would I prefer the picture on the Apple? Would I be pretty certain of no dead pixels? Is the response time similar, and is it good for games and video?
Thanks for any help,
David
Would I prefer the picture on the Apple? Would I be pretty certain of no dead pixels? Is the response time similar, and is it good for games and video?
Thanks for any help,
David
Comments
(What I also don't understand is why on earth anyone would use a display with 450 cd/m2? A good old CRT display had about 80 cd/m2, whereas a normal TFT claims to produce 250 cd/m2. I set my displays to 80-100 cd/m2 and that's OK. Once I bought an Acer 17" TFT where you couldn't reduce the brightness to less than 150 cd/m2 without all the colors getting funky... Way too bright for me! Response time is also one of those touchy subjects. Every manufacturer makes those numbers up. That's all what I want to say right now...)
OK, now back to your question: If you want a stylish display that matches your Mac Pro perfectly and has an A-class TFT panel (slightly better quality, less dead pixels), get the CinemaDisplay. If you need both VGA and DVI input (e.g. for a two computer setup) and if you think a card reader could by handy some time, get the Dell. It's a really good monitor for its price, but I doubt it has the same A-class panel inside like the CinemaDisplay (rather B-class).
You might be lucky, though, and have no dead pixel at all, but I doubt that. Our display has two dead pixels... Uniformity of brightness could also be better on the CinemaDisplay because of Apple probably using higher-quality backlights.
When getting the Apple Display with the Mac Pro and buying AppleCare, the display is also covered under the three-year warranty (which the Dell has anyway). Without AppleCare, there is only a one-year warranty on the CinemaDisplay.
i have a 20 inch at home and 2* 23s at work
The are the best, never seen another display get colors so close to real print jobs
i am also planning on getting a 30 incher, if the MBP is good for gaming on the 30 incher (other tread)
The Apple Cinema Displays are a hard display to match quality wise. Just like any brand no one is perfect and there have been dead pixels reported from time to time, but Apple will immediately replace it. DELL will for theirs too, but Apple used to have a contract with Samsung to where they had first pick of all Samsungs display panels (even before Samsung chose theirs) . They are no longer getting their panels from the same supplier, but their attention to quality has not diminished, and you can be assured that an Apple Cinema Display is second to none.
Thanks Onlooker - you've made up for your hurtful comment that I deserve a PC...
David
Thanks Onlooker - you've made up for your hurtful comment that I deserve a PC...
David
23" ACD have a common "pinking" problem, i have seen more then my fair share amount of 23 ACD's which have red color bleed at the top of the screen,which causes the tool bar at the top to be pink. I've seen alot of them retuned or replaced at my work because of this, I bought a Dell 2407 on my MacPro, and it looks incredibly better then the ACD's, and I can't stand Dell, they also use samsung displays so, if that helps you at all.
23" ACD have a common "pinking" problem, i have seen more then my fair share amount of 23 ACD's which have red color bleed at the top of the screen,which causes the tool bar at the top to be pink. I've seen alot of them retuned or replaced at my work because of this, I bought a Dell 2407 on my MacPro, and it looks incredibly better then the ACD's, and I can't stand Dell, they also use samsung displays so, if that helps you at all.
Wasn't that happening only with the first batch of 23" ACDs (until about half a year after the introduction)? I don't remember seeing any display with that specific problem for about a year now.
Wasn't that happening only with the first batch of 23" ACDs (until about half a year after the introduction)? I don't remember seeing any display with that specific problem for about a year now.
Not only that I don't think Apple is still using the Samsung screen. I believe they found a better source.
Wasn't that happening only with the first batch of 23" ACDs (until about half a year after the introduction)? I don't remember seeing any display with that specific problem for about a year now.
i have one of these, it doesn't have the pinking problem....i've never heard about it until now?
that dell looks nice...nice base design
Another thing that wasn't mentioned about the DELL that bugs me is that in a side by side comparison, the DELL looks and feels cheap comparatively. DELL really skimped on manufacturing costs when putting these together.
19" TFT panel (17" vis. size).
This means that the 23" ACD and the 24" Dell might actually be the same size?
The Apple Cinema Displays are a hard display to match quality wise. Just like any brand no one is perfect and there have been dead pixels reported from time to time, but Apple will immediately replace it.
The official line from Apple is that dead/stuck pixels are still an acceptable characteristic of the manufacturing methods employed ? so faulty pixels aren't sufficient grounds to return an ACD.
If you can get Apple to replace your screen, you won't get a new screen but instead a refurbished screen (one that has already been returned due to a fault). If the refurbished unit has any cosmetic damage (scratches/dents on the enclosure, control panel re-fitted incorrectly) then Apple don't want to know. One of the replacement panels I received was sold to some guy in Switzerland in October 2004, and as a result wasn't even covered by Apples own warranty.
If you buy an Apple Cinema Display, there is evey chance that you will end up sitting in front of a damaged second hand unit. My advice is don't buy Apple. If you absolutely have to have an Apple unit purchase a refurbished unit and save yourself some money ? like I say there's a very good chance that you'll end up with a refurbished unit anyway.
their attention to quality has not diminished, and you can be assured that an Apple Cinema Display is second to none.
That's not my experience (or the experience of my local Apple Service Centre). I've known the guys at the Service Centre long enough for them to tell me the truth, and in their own words they are 'sick of Apple equipment' (especially the PCIe Power Macs for some reason) and they 'can't wait to go on holiday'.
In the last year I have personally had:
Three faulty 30" Cinema Displays (dancing pixels problem)
Two faulty 23" Cinema Displays (pink problem)
One faulty Power Mac G5 (kept downsizing it's hard disk capacity)
Two faulty 15" MacBook Pros (slow)
One faulty 20" iMac Core Duo (display problem)
I've been a Mac user for 17 years and in the last 12 months I've gone from preaching the benefits of Mac ownership to telling people to avoid them at all costs.
I noticed that in the UK Dell were pulling the old trick:
19" TFT panel (17" vis. size).
Are you serious? There is *no* reason whatsoever to leave TFT panel covered behind the bezel, and you would definitely spot over 1" bezels.
Even on CRT's where it was a structural necessity that some of the nominal space is lost, it was more like 19" -> 18.1" viewable.
This means that the 23" ACD and the 24" Dell might actually be the same size?
Eh, no.
The 23" ACD panel is previous generation and loses to pretty much every other manufacturer who have since moved on to better panels. Apple is also about the only manufacturer that does not have a policy about which amount of dead pixels is enough for replacement. The displays have a one-year warranty instead of the industry standard three years. This is far from quality. I like Apple hardware but I'd never buy one of their displays before they get their act together on that front.
I'm a happy 2405FPW owner, had mine for almost one and half years now.
I noticed that in the UK Dell were pulling the old trick:
19" TFT panel (17" vis. size).
Nope, that would be false advertising. With CRTs, there was always a difference of about 1-2" in tube size vs. usable screen size (a 17" CRT had about 15" visible). With TFTs, the size marked in inches is the acutal screen size. A 17" is 17" in diagonal, etc.
BUT there is one difference between 17" and a 19" TFT: both have the same 1280 x 1024 pixel resolution, but not the same amount of dots per inch (dpi). This means, on the 19" TFT, the pixels are a bit bigger than on the 17".
15" TFT: 1024 x 768
17" TFT: 1280 x 1024
18": dito
19": dito
20": 1600 x 1200
21: dito
23": 1920 x 1200
24": dito
Widescreen TFTs, though, have other resolutions (e.g. 20" Apple CinemaDisplay: 1680 x 1050 pixels).
This means that the 23" ACD and the 24" Dell might actually be the same size?
Both have a resolution of 1920 x 1200 pixels, but not the same panel! And, of course, not the same pixel size / dpi.
Not only that I don't think Apple is still using the Samsung screen. I believe they found a better source.
Yeah I think you're right. The LM230WU3 panel from LGPhilips has identical specs to the current ACD 23" and I read on an LCD blog somewhere that it was LG they were using and that they were 'A' grade panels, (sorry can't remember the site).
It's making me think that the Dell might be best, but I'd love the beautiful design of the ACD. This is making me wonder - is there another manufacturer who uses the Dell panel, but in a sturdier, more beautiful case? I wouldn't mind paying up to $100 more, if it was sturdier and went with a Mac Pro better.
David
The official line from Apple is that dead/stuck pixels are still an acceptable characteristic of the manufacturing methods employed ? so faulty pixels aren't sufficient grounds to return an ACD.
If you can get Apple to replace your screen, you won't get a new screen but instead a refurbished screen (one that has already been returned due to a fault). If the refurbished unit has any cosmetic damage (scratches/dents on the enclosure, control panel re-fitted incorrectly) then Apple don't want to know. One of the replacement panels I received was sold to some guy in Switzerland in October 2004, and as a result wasn't even covered by Apples own warranty.
If you buy an Apple Cinema Display, there is evey chance that you will end up sitting in front of a damaged second hand unit. My advice is don't buy Apple. If you absolutely have to have an Apple unit purchase a refurbished unit and save yourself some money ? like I say there's a very good chance that you'll end up with a refurbished unit anyway.
That's not my experience (or the experience of my local Apple Service Centre). I've known the guys at the Service Centre long enough for them to tell me the truth, and in their own words they are 'sick of Apple equipment' (especially the PCIe Power Macs for some reason) and they 'can't wait to go on holiday'.
In the last year I have personally had:
Three faulty 30" Cinema Displays (dancing pixels problem)
Two faulty 23" Cinema Displays (pink problem)
One faulty Power Mac G5 (kept downsizing it's hard disk capacity)
Two faulty 15" MacBook Pros (slow)
One faulty 20" iMac Core Duo (display problem)
I've been a Mac user for 17 years and in the last 12 months I've gone from preaching the benefits of Mac ownership to telling people to avoid them at all costs.
I don't know where you live, but your stories sound like crap to me. Exchanging under-warranty monitors with refurbished units? That's criminal and Apple definitely doesn't do it.
Perhaps I've been very lucky. But I'll only buy Apple displays for my Macs.