I can't imagine something so simple as a search function would be deterred by a different chipset. Sure, there almost has to be new hardware to provide the longer battery life/screen brightness, but if they can make the 5G back-compatible to use games, why couldn't they provide a search? I guess it's because there's only so much time, and games bring in more cash than a search function.
If the chips are different, they may not have the functionality in firmware to allow certain updates to work. It may seem simple, but it might not be on the programming level.
I can't believe the folk that still believe every rumor...namely this one. The iPod is an icon, so it's overall look will not change for a while. Hell, every other player is trying to emulate it--cementing it's iconic presence. Think of the Walkman...did it's overall design ever change? Ever?
Next, I DON'T WANT TO WATCH VIDEO AT THAT SIZE! Photos in the field, maybe, but not video. It's just not practical. If I'm on a bus, train, or plane, then, the current iPod screen is just fine.
The natural progression was iTV(!?!?!), not a widescreen video iPod.
I think a video iPod is a logical progression. But there are some MAJOR technical limitations to overcome.
1 Battery life is dismal in just about every video player, and the bigger and brighter the screen, the worse it is.
2 A screen the size of the entire unit requires removing the buttons. Touchscreen isn't a good option because of fingerprints, so Apple is supposedly working on something similar that senses finger gestures. If that's what's really in store, and not just some hoaxer's fantasy, I imagine that would be REALLY hard to get working perfectly.
Part of apple's iPod success comes from never making any real missteps. It's MUCH smarter for Apple to release something later with all the bugs worked out, than something that still has issues and gets bad press.
I can't imagine something so simple as a search function would be deterred by a different chipset. Sure, there almost has to be new hardware to provide the longer battery life/screen brightness, but if they can make the 5G back-compatible to use games, why couldn't they provide a search? I guess it's because there's only so much time, and games bring in more cash than a search function.
Even that doesn't mean that they changed the chips. The backlight might just be a brighter LED or more LEDs behind the same panel, battery capacity might simply be Apple using a different battery.
If the chips are different, they may not have the functionality in firmware to allow certain updates to work. It may seem simple, but it might not be on the programming level.
I suppose. I don't know enough about programming to even begin to know what I'm talking about. I just assumed that if they could get the games to work... the search would follow. Again, I don't know much about it, so I'll just wait and see.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
Even that doesn't mean that they changed the chips. The backlight might just be a brighter LED or more LEDs behind the same panel, battery capacity might simply be Apple using a different battery.
True, that's why I said hardware instead of chipset. I'm really hoping it is just a brighter LED and better battery so the above response applied to the older 5G ipods. But again, I'm willing to wait and see.
I ordered a new video iPod almost immediately, just a few hours after the announcement.
I passed up the first generation of video iPod, being reasonably content with my 60 GB iPod photo. Even though I didn't (and still don't) think I'll use video playback much, the bigger display and the reduced thickness were tempting. I figured I might as well wait until the capacity went up to at least 80 GB.
Well, that increase happened. Then on top of that... GAPLESS PLAYBACK! I know most people don't give half a damn about that, but lack of gapless playback has been a pet peeve of mine for many years, so when I heard gapless playback, I was sold. A search function and better games and other incremental improvements are icing on the cake.
Full screen touchscreen video? Bah. Not my thing. I prefer real tactile buttons over virtual buttons, and music is what I mainly want an iPod for anyway.
I suppose. I don't know enough about programming to even begin to know what I'm talking about. I just assumed that if they could get the games to work... the search would follow. Again, I don't know much about it, so I'll just wait and see.
True, that's why I said hardware instead of chipset. I'm really hoping it is just a brighter LED and better battery so the above response applied to the older 5G ipods. But again, I'm willing to wait and see.
Remember that Apple changes chip makers. Samsung is now making chips for them. Whether these new players are using those chips, or they will be waiting for the "newer" player not out yet, I don't know now. But very shortly some site will take one of these things apart, and then we will know.
Also, don't forget that Apple has been working on an expanded set of API's for games in the iPods for some time now. They may be in the older 5G's as well.
What I'm most interested in is whether these API's are being opened up to third party game developers as well.
I've said that the iPod is ideal for games ever since the better color screen first came out. Let's hope. They can give Nintendo some competition.
Remember that Apple changes chip makers. Samsung is now making chips for them. Whether these new players are using those chips, or they will be waiting for the "newer" player not out yet, I don't know now. But very shortly some site will take one of these things apart, and then we will know.
Also, don't forget that Apple has been working on an expanded set of API's for games in the iPods for some time now. They may be in the older 5G's as well.
What I'm most interested in is whether these API's are being opened up to third party game developers as well.
I've said that the iPod is ideal for games ever since the better color screen first came out. Let's hope. They can give Nintendo some competition.
Yeah, Apple does do the "chipset manufacturer shuffle" alot don't they?
I forgot that they have been looking for games programmers for a while now so that API may very well be included. Good point.
As much as I'd like to see freeware come out... I'm concerned about the lack of quality control. There are many games I'd like to see use the click wheel, like Raiden (old coin-op plane shooter for you youngin's), but I don't want to see a flood of rubbish or IP conflicts.
Anyway, I'll be picking up Vortex and Mahjong to pass the time away... cheers.
Yeah, Apple does do the "chipset manufacturer shuffle" alot don't they?
I forgot that they have been looking for games programmers for a while now so that API may very well be included. Good point.
As much as I'd like to see freeware come out... I'm concerned about the lack of quality control. There are many games I'd like to see use the click wheel, like Raiden (old coin-op plane shooter for you youngin's), but I don't want to see a flood of rubbish or IP conflicts.
Anyway, I'll be picking up Vortex and Mahjong to pass the time away... cheers.
Not just freeware, of course. I would imagine that the games developers on the Palm, Windows mobile, DS, and other platforms would be interested in producing games for such a popular platform. There will be quite a few million of these things floating around, and people would buy games if they were priced like games for those platforms. At about $5 to$20 apiece, those games are well priced. I've got a bunch for my older Samsung i330, and now for my Treo 700p.
The clickwheel is much better than the buttons used for these PDA phones, because each software company uses different buttons for the same actions, unlike a dedicated game system. Apple's clickwheel is simple enough that logic should prevail, esp. if Apple "hints' as to what each control function should be used for in the API's.
I believe that the move to a Samsung chipset was for the Nano only. The HDD iPods remain based on the Portal Player + Broadcom chipset to the best of my knowledge. The broadcom video decoder is programmable, so it's possible that they developed a more efficient H264 decoder to allow for higher resolution playback and to contribute towards the better battery life.
Hopefully take-apart pictures will be posted soon, so we'll find out for sure if Portal Player and Broadcom are still involved.
Not just freeware, of course. I would imagine that the games developers on the Palm, Windows mobile, DS, and other platforms would be interested in producing games for such a popular platform. There will be quite a few million of these things floating around, and people would buy games if they were priced like games for those platforms. At about $5 to$20 apiece, those games are well priced. I've got a bunch for my older Samsung i330, and now for my Treo 700p.
The clickwheel is much better than the buttons used for these PDA phones, because each software company uses different buttons for the same actions, unlike a dedicated game system. Apple's clickwheel is simple enough that logic should prevail, esp. if Apple "hints' as to what each control function should be used for in the API's.
So you're imagining an Xbox Live Arcade type distribution? That's pretty brilliant. If they can keep these games at $5-$10, with a user base of over 1M... no company could turn that down!
First a question. I noticed that brightness adjustment was added to the old iPods, along with the letter appearing while fast scrolling. I love those, the brightness especially, to get more battery life out of it. But I can't seem to find the search or even find out if that is on the old video iPod as well. Any know for sure?
And as for the "true" video iPod, I believe it is right around the corner. Reaons why would start with the movie store. They will probably want to try to get that going and make sure it sells well before they invest in a video iPod just to watch TV shows. No since in selling hardware if the software and content isn't there (I know they sell a lot of TV shows, but those don't need a big screen, just like a lot of TV's are small for a room). Another reason would be because of the price drops. I think they lowered the price just because what they offer is nothing special over other's, but the competition is now closer, so they lowered price points will help. I don't know if it's just me but it seems as though the education discount is no longer applied to iPods. Maybe that is because the lowered price points don't allow for much of a discount. But with such a small increment in iPod's hardware, I would expect a "true" video iPod to come out in Jan. at MacWorld. They are working on some issues I'm sure, like the battery not being as good as they want, or the touch wheel/screen issue. They probably want to have at least two whole movies to be played back to back on it. Also, there is a chance they don't release it, because not many people would actually watch movies on it, in my opinion. I have a video iPod now and I don't watch movies on it much. But I do think they will come out with it in Jan. of 07.
If the chips are different, they may not have the functionality in firmware to allow certain updates to work. It may seem simple, but it might not be on the programming level.
So they might be using chips that are capable of playing games like Pac Man...but not of displaying letters for a search?
And as for the "true" video iPod, I believe it is right around the corner. Reaons why would start with the movie store. They will probably want to try to get that going and make sure it sells well before they invest in a video iPod just to watch TV shows. No since in selling hardware if the software and content isn't there (I know they sell a lot of TV shows, but those don't need a big screen, just like a lot of TV's are small for a room). Another reason would be because of the price drops. I think they lowered the price just because what they offer is nothing special over other's, but the competition is now closer, so they lowered price points will help. I don't know if it's just me but it seems as though the education discount is no longer applied to iPods. Maybe that is because the lowered price points don't allow for much of a discount. But with such a small increment in iPod's hardware, I would expect a "true" video iPod to come out in Jan. at MacWorld. They are working on some issues I'm sure, like the battery not being as good as they want, or the touch wheel/screen issue. They probably want to have at least two whole movies to be played back to back on it. Also, there is a chance they don't release it, because not many people would actually watch movies on it, in my opinion. I have a video iPod now and I don't watch movies on it much. But I do think they will come out with it in Jan. of 07.
It's been around the corner since last January!
Excuses for not having the movie store was that the iPod wasn't ready for it.
The excuses for not having the new iPod was that the movie store wasn't ready for it.
Well, now we have the movie store, and no new iPod (these don't count for that).
Just maybe, there was never going to BE a "new" iPod for the movie store.
Perhaps Apple is working on something that won't be out for a while, if ever!
I just thought of another possible way this could be an advantage for Apple.
If you could listen to music while playing games, many people would be interested.
I'm on board with games on iPod. It's a good idea that's been noticeably lacking, considering most portable media devices and phones include these things.
It's very strange. Apple's playing catch-up more and more, and being less the innovator. WTF is going on up there?
So they might be using chips that are capable of playing games like Pac Man...but not of displaying letters for a search?
Think about how ridiculous that sounds.
That's what originally started my confusion. I'm glad someone else was confused by it. I think the lack of a search is less of a "Can't" than it's more of a "not enough time to do it." I'll give them a few weeks. It's not mission critical anyway now that we have that letter pop-up. We'll see.
I'm on board with games on iPod. It's a good idea that's been noticeably lacking, considering most portable media devices and phones include these things.
It's very strange. Apple's playing catch-up more and more, and being less the innovator. WTF is going on up there?
The original iPod was playing catch-up. They just played much better than everyone else did.
After a time, though, Apple will simply run out of innovations for the device. It's bound to happen.
All the talk about these new innovations such as the full face screen, touch, and proximity sensing, etc, could be some time away. Apple could be having difficulties with the programming, new chips could be needed that are not being produced yet, prices on large screens may have to drop, or perhaps thay're waiting for an OLED. Battery life problems, etc.
Comments
I can't imagine something so simple as a search function would be deterred by a different chipset. Sure, there almost has to be new hardware to provide the longer battery life/screen brightness, but if they can make the 5G back-compatible to use games, why couldn't they provide a search? I guess it's because there's only so much time, and games bring in more cash than a search function.
If the chips are different, they may not have the functionality in firmware to allow certain updates to work. It may seem simple, but it might not be on the programming level.
I can't believe the folk that still believe every rumor...namely this one. The iPod is an icon, so it's overall look will not change for a while. Hell, every other player is trying to emulate it--cementing it's iconic presence. Think of the Walkman...did it's overall design ever change? Ever?
Next, I DON'T WANT TO WATCH VIDEO AT THAT SIZE! Photos in the field, maybe, but not video. It's just not practical. If I'm on a bus, train, or plane, then, the current iPod screen is just fine.
The natural progression was iTV(!?!?!), not a widescreen video iPod.
I think a video iPod is a logical progression. But there are some MAJOR technical limitations to overcome.
1 Battery life is dismal in just about every video player, and the bigger and brighter the screen, the worse it is.
2 A screen the size of the entire unit requires removing the buttons. Touchscreen isn't a good option because of fingerprints, so Apple is supposedly working on something similar that senses finger gestures. If that's what's really in store, and not just some hoaxer's fantasy, I imagine that would be REALLY hard to get working perfectly.
Part of apple's iPod success comes from never making any real missteps. It's MUCH smarter for Apple to release something later with all the bugs worked out, than something that still has issues and gets bad press.
I can't imagine something so simple as a search function would be deterred by a different chipset. Sure, there almost has to be new hardware to provide the longer battery life/screen brightness, but if they can make the 5G back-compatible to use games, why couldn't they provide a search? I guess it's because there's only so much time, and games bring in more cash than a search function.
Even that doesn't mean that they changed the chips. The backlight might just be a brighter LED or more LEDs behind the same panel, battery capacity might simply be Apple using a different battery.
If the chips are different, they may not have the functionality in firmware to allow certain updates to work. It may seem simple, but it might not be on the programming level.
I suppose. I don't know enough about programming to even begin to know what I'm talking about. I just assumed that if they could get the games to work... the search would follow. Again, I don't know much about it, so I'll just wait and see.
Even that doesn't mean that they changed the chips. The backlight might just be a brighter LED or more LEDs behind the same panel, battery capacity might simply be Apple using a different battery.
True, that's why I said hardware instead of chipset. I'm really hoping it is just a brighter LED and better battery so the above response applied to the older 5G ipods. But again, I'm willing to wait and see.
I passed up the first generation of video iPod, being reasonably content with my 60 GB iPod photo. Even though I didn't (and still don't) think I'll use video playback much, the bigger display and the reduced thickness were tempting. I figured I might as well wait until the capacity went up to at least 80 GB.
Well, that increase happened. Then on top of that... GAPLESS PLAYBACK! I know most people don't give half a damn about that, but lack of gapless playback has been a pet peeve of mine for many years, so when I heard gapless playback, I was sold. A search function and better games and other incremental improvements are icing on the cake.
Full screen touchscreen video? Bah. Not my thing. I prefer real tactile buttons over virtual buttons, and music is what I mainly want an iPod for anyway.
I suppose. I don't know enough about programming to even begin to know what I'm talking about. I just assumed that if they could get the games to work... the search would follow. Again, I don't know much about it, so I'll just wait and see.
True, that's why I said hardware instead of chipset. I'm really hoping it is just a brighter LED and better battery so the above response applied to the older 5G ipods. But again, I'm willing to wait and see.
Remember that Apple changes chip makers. Samsung is now making chips for them. Whether these new players are using those chips, or they will be waiting for the "newer" player not out yet, I don't know now. But very shortly some site will take one of these things apart, and then we will know.
Also, don't forget that Apple has been working on an expanded set of API's for games in the iPods for some time now. They may be in the older 5G's as well.
What I'm most interested in is whether these API's are being opened up to third party game developers as well.
I've said that the iPod is ideal for games ever since the better color screen first came out. Let's hope. They can give Nintendo some competition.
Remember that Apple changes chip makers. Samsung is now making chips for them. Whether these new players are using those chips, or they will be waiting for the "newer" player not out yet, I don't know now. But very shortly some site will take one of these things apart, and then we will know.
Also, don't forget that Apple has been working on an expanded set of API's for games in the iPods for some time now. They may be in the older 5G's as well.
What I'm most interested in is whether these API's are being opened up to third party game developers as well.
I've said that the iPod is ideal for games ever since the better color screen first came out. Let's hope. They can give Nintendo some competition.
Yeah, Apple does do the "chipset manufacturer shuffle" alot don't they?
I forgot that they have been looking for games programmers for a while now so that API may very well be included. Good point.
As much as I'd like to see freeware come out... I'm concerned about the lack of quality control. There are many games I'd like to see use the click wheel, like Raiden (old coin-op plane shooter for you youngin's), but I don't want to see a flood of rubbish or IP conflicts.
Anyway, I'll be picking up Vortex and Mahjong to pass the time away... cheers.
Yeah, Apple does do the "chipset manufacturer shuffle" alot don't they?
I forgot that they have been looking for games programmers for a while now so that API may very well be included. Good point.
As much as I'd like to see freeware come out... I'm concerned about the lack of quality control. There are many games I'd like to see use the click wheel, like Raiden (old coin-op plane shooter for you youngin's), but I don't want to see a flood of rubbish or IP conflicts.
Anyway, I'll be picking up Vortex and Mahjong to pass the time away... cheers.
Not just freeware, of course. I would imagine that the games developers on the Palm, Windows mobile, DS, and other platforms would be interested in producing games for such a popular platform. There will be quite a few million of these things floating around, and people would buy games if they were priced like games for those platforms. At about $5 to$20 apiece, those games are well priced. I've got a bunch for my older Samsung i330, and now for my Treo 700p.
The clickwheel is much better than the buttons used for these PDA phones, because each software company uses different buttons for the same actions, unlike a dedicated game system. Apple's clickwheel is simple enough that logic should prevail, esp. if Apple "hints' as to what each control function should be used for in the API's.
If you could listen to music while playing games, many people would be interested.
Hopefully take-apart pictures will be posted soon, so we'll find out for sure if Portal Player and Broadcom are still involved.
Not just freeware, of course. I would imagine that the games developers on the Palm, Windows mobile, DS, and other platforms would be interested in producing games for such a popular platform. There will be quite a few million of these things floating around, and people would buy games if they were priced like games for those platforms. At about $5 to$20 apiece, those games are well priced. I've got a bunch for my older Samsung i330, and now for my Treo 700p.
The clickwheel is much better than the buttons used for these PDA phones, because each software company uses different buttons for the same actions, unlike a dedicated game system. Apple's clickwheel is simple enough that logic should prevail, esp. if Apple "hints' as to what each control function should be used for in the API's.
So you're imagining an Xbox Live Arcade type distribution? That's pretty brilliant. If they can keep these games at $5-$10, with a user base of over 1M... no company could turn that down!
/buys Apple stock
And as for the "true" video iPod, I believe it is right around the corner. Reaons why would start with the movie store. They will probably want to try to get that going and make sure it sells well before they invest in a video iPod just to watch TV shows. No since in selling hardware if the software and content isn't there (I know they sell a lot of TV shows, but those don't need a big screen, just like a lot of TV's are small for a room). Another reason would be because of the price drops. I think they lowered the price just because what they offer is nothing special over other's, but the competition is now closer, so they lowered price points will help. I don't know if it's just me but it seems as though the education discount is no longer applied to iPods. Maybe that is because the lowered price points don't allow for much of a discount. But with such a small increment in iPod's hardware, I would expect a "true" video iPod to come out in Jan. at MacWorld. They are working on some issues I'm sure, like the battery not being as good as they want, or the touch wheel/screen issue. They probably want to have at least two whole movies to be played back to back on it. Also, there is a chance they don't release it, because not many people would actually watch movies on it, in my opinion. I have a video iPod now and I don't watch movies on it much. But I do think they will come out with it in Jan. of 07.
If the chips are different, they may not have the functionality in firmware to allow certain updates to work. It may seem simple, but it might not be on the programming level.
So they might be using chips that are capable of playing games like Pac Man...but not of displaying letters for a search?
Think about how ridiculous that sounds.
And as for the "true" video iPod, I believe it is right around the corner. Reaons why would start with the movie store. They will probably want to try to get that going and make sure it sells well before they invest in a video iPod just to watch TV shows. No since in selling hardware if the software and content isn't there (I know they sell a lot of TV shows, but those don't need a big screen, just like a lot of TV's are small for a room). Another reason would be because of the price drops. I think they lowered the price just because what they offer is nothing special over other's, but the competition is now closer, so they lowered price points will help. I don't know if it's just me but it seems as though the education discount is no longer applied to iPods. Maybe that is because the lowered price points don't allow for much of a discount. But with such a small increment in iPod's hardware, I would expect a "true" video iPod to come out in Jan. at MacWorld. They are working on some issues I'm sure, like the battery not being as good as they want, or the touch wheel/screen issue. They probably want to have at least two whole movies to be played back to back on it. Also, there is a chance they don't release it, because not many people would actually watch movies on it, in my opinion. I have a video iPod now and I don't watch movies on it much. But I do think they will come out with it in Jan. of 07.
It's been around the corner since last January!
Excuses for not having the movie store was that the iPod wasn't ready for it.
The excuses for not having the new iPod was that the movie store wasn't ready for it.
Well, now we have the movie store, and no new iPod (these don't count for that).
Just maybe, there was never going to BE a "new" iPod for the movie store.
Perhaps Apple is working on something that won't be out for a while, if ever!
Perhaps it will be the iPhone instead.
So they might be using chips that are capable of playing games like Pac Man...but not of displaying letters for a search?
Think about how ridiculous that sounds.
Nothing is ridiculous. If they don't update the older units for this, it will either be because they don't want to, or they can't.
I'm not saying that they can't. I'm just saying that IF they don't, that's a possibility.
Do you know for CERTAIN that they can?
I just thought of another possible way this could be an advantage for Apple.
If you could listen to music while playing games, many people would be interested.
I'm on board with games on iPod. It's a good idea that's been noticeably lacking, considering most portable media devices and phones include these things.
It's very strange. Apple's playing catch-up more and more, and being less the innovator. WTF is going on up there?
So they might be using chips that are capable of playing games like Pac Man...but not of displaying letters for a search?
Think about how ridiculous that sounds.
That's what originally started my confusion. I'm glad someone else was confused by it. I think the lack of a search is less of a "Can't" than it's more of a "not enough time to do it." I'll give them a few weeks. It's not mission critical anyway now that we have that letter pop-up. We'll see.
I'm on board with games on iPod. It's a good idea that's been noticeably lacking, considering most portable media devices and phones include these things.
It's very strange. Apple's playing catch-up more and more, and being less the innovator. WTF is going on up there?
The original iPod was playing catch-up. They just played much better than everyone else did.
After a time, though, Apple will simply run out of innovations for the device. It's bound to happen.
All the talk about these new innovations such as the full face screen, touch, and proximity sensing, etc, could be some time away. Apple could be having difficulties with the programming, new chips could be needed that are not being produced yet, prices on large screens may have to drop, or perhaps thay're waiting for an OLED. Battery life problems, etc.