"The only time they do tell you to is when you already have specific problems."
You quoted specific problems. That's fine. Repairing Permissions as a general maintenance task or before/after running Software Update makes no sense and they tell you NOT to.
It isn't that they are telling you explicitly not to. They are directing you the the disk repair portion.
The freezing problem is an exterme example. But the others I mentioned are also caused by permission errors.
The last paragraph is not misleading. It is correct. One can't have it both ways. You can't point to Apple for one thing, and then say to ignore the other.
1) Installing anything will already have fixed the permissions. Fixing permissions, by definition, restores them to the installer settings. If an installer doesn't have the proper permissions set (which is rare, most installers don't even touch permissions), then fixing permissions won't even work: it'll just set them to whatever permissions were in all the various installers.
2) Fixing permissions fixes like 1% of problems ever. And they're pretty easily recognizable: it happens when an app can't save files.
3) Fixing permissions very likely only ever fixes USER errors: where a user specifically went into the get info panel, entered their password, and screwed their own computer up. I don't think there's ever been a verified report of an app or process actually screwing up permissions itself.
Jon Gruber I think also has a couple similar articles on DaringFireball.net that are probably clear than I am :P
I'm not saying that they fix all problems. but that 1 to 3% or so, that it does fix can be good enough.
I've been told by Apple that the reason why it is a good idea, is because some of those problems do crop up after a new install. Rarely, but definitely, a new install corrupts some permissions. Fixing them will save some problems later, if that does happen.
It isn't that they are telling you explicitly not to. They are directing you the the disk repair portion.
ok, I'll play once then leave it there as arguing with you is as fruitful as trying to teach a cow to sing "Paranoid" by Black Sabbath.
To quote Apple...
"Troubleshooting an unsuccessful installation
Use Disk Utility
Start up from the Mac OS X Install CD. Use the Disk Utility application to verify the disk with Repair Disk (not permissions) of the volume you are trying to install onto. After verification or any necessary repair, try the installation again."
My emphasis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
The freezing problem is an exterme example. But the others I mentioned are also caused by permission errors.
Yes, they're specific problems. That doesn't make it true that running 'Repair Permissions' as a general maintenance procedure or during installs is a worthwhile practice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
The last paragraph is not misleading. It is correct. One can't have it both ways. You can't point to Apple for one thing, and then say to ignore the other.
I can. It's incorrect. Get back to me when you can sing Ozzy's finest.
"The only time they do tell you to is when you already have specific problems."
You quoted specific problems. That's fine. Repairing Permissions as a general maintenance task or before/after running Software Update makes no sense and they tell you NOT to.
Ageis, as I've said, I've been told that this is a good idea, because you might have a problem like these, come up from an installation, without uou knowing it, until you do end up with a problem.
What's amazing, is that quite a few of the problems that have arisen from installs are correctable with a permissions fix.
I really don't understand what all the rankor is about over this.
It is totally harmless, and it might save someone from a problem.
Most people here are knowledgable enough to recognise a permissions error when they see one. Therefore, they can go to fix them when necessary. But, most people would have no idea as to what to do. Fixing them after an install would take of any of them that cropped up.
I don't see the problem here.
I DO understand that in theory, you don't need it. But, practice and theory, as we all know, don't always coincide.
ok, I'll play once then leave it there as arguing with you is as fruitful as trying to teach a cow to sing "Paranoid" by Black Sabbath.
To quote Apple...
"Troubleshooting an unsuccessful installation
Use Disk Utility
Start up from the Mac OS X Install CD. Use the Disk Utility application to verify the disk with Repair Disk (not permissions) of the volume you are trying to install onto. After verification or any necessary repair, try the installation again."
My emphasis.
Yes, I agree. For an unsuccessful installation. That's a more serious problem.
Quote:
Yes, they're specific problems. That doesn't make it true that running 'Repair Permissions' as a general maintenance procedure or during installs is a worthwhile practice.
I can. It's incorrect. Get back to me when you can sing Ozzy's finest.
You may think that you're funny, but you're not.
And, there are other people here, including yourself, who are at LEAST as stubborn as I am. At that doesn't make you any more correct.
Apple;'s own engineers have been saying this (uh, recommending fixing, that is) on their own forums for quite a while.
But, that's it. It's not important enough to continue arguing about.
Do you think all Apple engineers are infallible?
I hesitate to sound like a salesman for the aforementioned MDJ, but they've frequently discussed Apple's changing and inconsistent stance on the subject, and they give sound advice.
It ain't free, but it's worth a darned site more than the 'repair permissions' mantra.
Comments
You're misunderstanding. I wrote...
"The only time they do tell you to is when you already have specific problems."
You quoted specific problems. That's fine. Repairing Permissions as a general maintenance task or before/after running Software Update makes no sense and they tell you NOT to.
Ah ok, my bad
They don't. They explicitly tell you not to.
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106692
The only time they do tell you to is when you already have specific problems.
See "My computer keeps freezing or I see a flashing question mark" for example
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.h...en/mh1928.html
The last paragraph is misleading.
It isn't that they are telling you explicitly not to. They are directing you the the disk repair portion.
The freezing problem is an exterme example. But the others I mentioned are also caused by permission errors.
The last paragraph is not misleading. It is correct. One can't have it both ways. You can't point to Apple for one thing, and then say to ignore the other.
BLARGH! Mel, you should know better then this.
1) Installing anything will already have fixed the permissions. Fixing permissions, by definition, restores them to the installer settings. If an installer doesn't have the proper permissions set (which is rare, most installers don't even touch permissions), then fixing permissions won't even work: it'll just set them to whatever permissions were in all the various installers.
2) Fixing permissions fixes like 1% of problems ever. And they're pretty easily recognizable: it happens when an app can't save files.
3) Fixing permissions very likely only ever fixes USER errors: where a user specifically went into the get info panel, entered their password, and screwed their own computer up. I don't think there's ever been a verified report of an app or process actually screwing up permissions itself.
Jon Gruber I think also has a couple similar articles on DaringFireball.net that are probably clear than I am :P
I'm not saying that they fix all problems. but that 1 to 3% or so, that it does fix can be good enough.
I've been told by Apple that the reason why it is a good idea, is because some of those problems do crop up after a new install. Rarely, but definitely, a new install corrupts some permissions. Fixing them will save some problems later, if that does happen.
It isn't that they are telling you explicitly not to. They are directing you the the disk repair portion.
ok, I'll play once then leave it there as arguing with you is as fruitful as trying to teach a cow to sing "Paranoid" by Black Sabbath.
To quote Apple...
"Troubleshooting an unsuccessful installation
Use Disk Utility
Start up from the Mac OS X Install CD. Use the Disk Utility application to verify the disk with Repair Disk (not permissions) of the volume you are trying to install onto. After verification or any necessary repair, try the installation again."
My emphasis.
The freezing problem is an exterme example. But the others I mentioned are also caused by permission errors.
Yes, they're specific problems. That doesn't make it true that running 'Repair Permissions' as a general maintenance procedure or during installs is a worthwhile practice.
The last paragraph is not misleading. It is correct. One can't have it both ways. You can't point to Apple for one thing, and then say to ignore the other.
I can. It's incorrect. Get back to me when you can sing Ozzy's finest.
You're misunderstanding. I wrote...
"The only time they do tell you to is when you already have specific problems."
You quoted specific problems. That's fine. Repairing Permissions as a general maintenance task or before/after running Software Update makes no sense and they tell you NOT to.
Ageis, as I've said, I've been told that this is a good idea, because you might have a problem like these, come up from an installation, without uou knowing it, until you do end up with a problem.
What's amazing, is that quite a few of the problems that have arisen from installs are correctable with a permissions fix.
I really don't understand what all the rankor is about over this.
It is totally harmless, and it might save someone from a problem.
Most people here are knowledgable enough to recognise a permissions error when they see one. Therefore, they can go to fix them when necessary. But, most people would have no idea as to what to do. Fixing them after an install would take of any of them that cropped up.
I don't see the problem here.
I DO understand that in theory, you don't need it. But, practice and theory, as we all know, don't always coincide.
ok, I'll play once then leave it there as arguing with you is as fruitful as trying to teach a cow to sing "Paranoid" by Black Sabbath.
To quote Apple...
"Troubleshooting an unsuccessful installation
Use Disk Utility
Start up from the Mac OS X Install CD. Use the Disk Utility application to verify the disk with Repair Disk (not permissions) of the volume you are trying to install onto. After verification or any necessary repair, try the installation again."
My emphasis.
Yes, I agree. For an unsuccessful installation. That's a more serious problem.
Yes, they're specific problems. That doesn't make it true that running 'Repair Permissions' as a general maintenance procedure or during installs is a worthwhile practice.
I can. It's incorrect. Get back to me when you can sing Ozzy's finest.
You may think that you're funny, but you're not.
And, there are other people here, including yourself, who are at LEAST as stubborn as I am. At that doesn't make you any more correct.
You miss the entire point.
With all due respect, I recommend you consult an expert and stop digging.
Melgross,
With all due respect, I recommend you consult an expert and stop digging.
Apple;'s own engineers have been saying this (uh, recommending fixing, that is) on their own forums for quite a while.
But, that's it. It's not important enough to continue arguing about.
Apple;'s own engineers have been saying this (uh, recommending fixing, that is) on their own forums for quite a while.
But, that's it. It's not important enough to continue arguing about.
Do you think all Apple engineers are infallible?
I hesitate to sound like a salesman for the aforementioned MDJ, but they've frequently discussed Apple's changing and inconsistent stance on the subject, and they give sound advice.
It ain't free, but it's worth a darned site more than the 'repair permissions' mantra.
(edit for typo only)