Jobs needs to remember that consumers do not always choose based on superiority of product. They frequently choose on what they want to do and who is there to hand them the product to do it with. This is what first gave AOL and Netscape the edge on Internet access and browsers. When most consumers wanted to go online, they either had a free AOL disc laying around or got an ISP who gave them Netscape. There was no browser built into Windows, so for years most Internet users were on AOL or Netscape. This is much like the iPod/iTunes combination - one begot the other. Consumers wanted to get songs on-line and they wanted to carry them with them. Apple gave them the first, best, and simplest method to do both.
Well today Internet Explorer reigns supreme for one simple reason: MS bundled it with Windows (along with ISP and AOL access) so the consumer could just buy a new PC and get right on-line. It was simple and they did not have to worry about CD-ROMs or downloads, etc. And while the iPod rules today, much like Netscape & AOL it is ripe for attack.
If MS puts that same clout behind the Zune it will be a real player in this market (no pun intended). Imagine the non-tech-savvy user getting a new Vista PC. A splashy intro to Windows shows the Zune and tells the consumer how it is "plug-and-play" with everything they have. They don't need to download from some other site! I believe the average consumer will go with what they perceive to be the easiest solution to their needs. They want a music player, they grew up watching MTV, and their new computer tells them this is all they need to buy to get what they want!
Here's where Apple can (and hopefully will) win: Where AOL and Netscape stayed stagnant in their product development, Apple should move leaps and bounds ahead. Perhaps even finding some way to partially re-invent the market (again). I hope the full touch screen iPod and Apple Phone are for real, are done right, and are coming soon. Otherwise I think the mere marketing power of MS could make the Zune a contender, even technologically it is not.
What you are saying isn't entirely true.
AOL was by far, the best way to get onto the internet for several critical years. It wasn't the only way. There were several viable competitors, but none had the features AOL had. This changed later. But in the beginning AOL was the best.
The same is true of Netscape. Some copies were given by ISP's, that's true, but they sold many copies at $39.95. I still have my box with it. It was also, by far, the best browser for several years. That changed as well. After MS gave IE away, even before they integrated it into the OS, it killed Netscape's sales, and down went the R&D. By version 4, IE became somewhat better.
Netscape's mistake was in advocating, and adhering to, the idea of an open specification. Every development they made was free for any other browser writer to use. MS took advantage of this, and when they had the major share began to write closed specs. That shut every other browser out, as companies began to write to IE. You know Active X and all that jazz.
But Zune is different. Apple hasn't succumbed to the open spec idea here. MS can't grab it away.
Zune will have to stand entirely on its own. No doubt, people will buy it. There are people who will only buy MS products just as there are those who will only buy Apple products.
But that's a small bunch on either side. MS will have to convince the general public that they will prefer Zune. That will be tough. Even Ballmer had to prevent his own kids from buying iPods.
They might accept a Zune from him, but they won't be too happy.
You go girlfriend!!! Steve Jobs is da man. Watch, friends, as instead of defending company losses or dodgy share options or talking about how he pimped his private jet, he wistfully paints a picture of lying in the soft spring grass, your friend and you sharing a tune - "If I just lay here.... Would you lie with me.... And forget the world...." (Snow Patrol - Chasing Cars). No squirting things at each other and watching hourglasses on the screen, just sharing earphones. Then maybe when the time is right, locking lips under blue skies dotted with lazy white cottonball clouds drifting in the warm wind. Love. Music. Life. iPod. A soft sunset starts to spread its wings on the horizon, as you cuddle a bit more closely and watch the streams of people go by.
Steve Ballmer, you d*ckhead, THIS sells mp3 players. Not just running up to people and squirting stuff at them and touching them in many places. Dating 101. Straight/ Gay/ Bi/ Friends/ Just Friends/ Maybe More/ Whatever. Dating 102: Now, admittedly, *some* people may like people running up to them and touching them and squirting stuff at them. That's cool too. Whatever floats your boat. Just like a brown Zune. I'm not going to hate people that buy them, I'm just going to reiterate how Apple just gets it and Microsoft just doesn't. Period.
Just sharing the library much like iTunes does for any nearby ipod seems like a much better idea than just uploading a file that's going to expire. Much like sharing earbuds only using WiFi.
He's right about the earbud being easier than the wireless. Also you get to share headphones with the girl. Another option would be for new iPods to come with 2 headphone jacks.
The same is true of Netscape. Some copies were given by ISP's, that's true, but they sold many copies at $39.95. I still have my box with it. It was also, by far, the best browser for several years. That changed as well. After MS gave IE away, even before they integrated it into the OS, it killed Netscape's sales, and down went the R&D. By version 4, IE became somewhat better.
Netscape's mistake was in advocating, and adhering to, the idea of an open specification. Every development they made was free for any other browser writer to use. MS took advantage of this, and when they had the major share began to write closed specs. That shut every other browser out, as companies began to write to IE. You know Active X and all that jazz.
But Zune is different. Apple hasn't succumbed to the open spec idea here. MS can't grab it away.
I think you missed the part where Microsoft told OEMs that they would no longer be able to license Windows to include as the OS on their PCs if they included Netscape as the browser on their systems.
Broadband was far less common and downloading Netscape was a non-trivial effort for typical home consumers. In the business world, it was cheaper and easier to deal with one company for OS/browser configuration and support than two.
I think Microsoft could cut into the iPod's sales, if they could provide Windows software good enough to discourage people from downloading/installing iTunes. But since the iPod is a hardware package, you just include the software with the hardware. With broadband being common today, getting updates is far easier.
There is no comparison between bundling software for free with their own OS and selling a $250 nicknack. And as another poster poignantly pointed out, there are no more 'mp3 players'; there are iPods and iPod knock-offs. Zune is another half-baked idea proposed by corporate stooges to appeal to people they don't understand. With each revision it will adopt more and more featuritis, and become more Windows-like to use.
This product will fail. Microsoft can't innovate, they can only catch up yo where Apple was 5 years ago.
He's right about the earbud being easier than the wireless. Also you get to share headphones with the girl. Another option would be for new iPods to come with 2 headphone jacks.
It's not only Zune that has to compete with the iPod. It's whatever Zune's music management software is vs. iTunes. Anybody who's used iTunes falls in love with it. And if they have a library as complicated as mine (smart playlists, grouping keywords, etc.) There's no way they're going to switch.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Zune marketplace a rental based program? If it is, history has proven that doesn't work.
i think M$ have made the same mistake as a lot of other player have, its all too complicated. the ipod is simple. enough said. the zune, after watching a demo video on the internet, looks like a lot of work to do anything. its got so many features with all different menus, clicks, turning it sideways and a load of other shit. it looks to me that you'd get one, play with everything, get bored, get fed up of having to look through a million different menu's to do one thing. sillyness
Well, what would the alternatives be? If an iPod being a Ferrari, what would a Zune be?
A hummer.
greg: The iPod is still the most expensive around compared to functionality, and by all accounts it has the best design. A lot of people buy it to show it off - with those signature white buds. If everybody had it, there would be nothing to show off anymore. You may not believe that, and obviously Jobs doesn't - but I think most marketeers would agree.
greg: The iPod is still the most expensive around compared to functionality, and by all accounts it has the best design. A lot of people buy it to show it off - with those signature white buds. If everybody had it, there would be nothing to show off anymore. You may not believe that, and obviously Jobs doesn't - but I think most marketeers would agree.
Everyone already has an iPod, and I have never met anyone who bought an iPod to "show it off".
The look on the girl's face as you use the ear bud wires to reel her in for a kiss: Priceless.
A week or so ago while arguing with Woody, the AI Zune guy, I started to describe the same "girl" scenario as Steve used in the interview . I was going to describe how much sexier it was to share an iPod with the cute girl than to leer at her will trying to make a connection with your Zune. She looks accross the crowded bus and you are staring at her while fumbling with something in you lap.
greg: The iPod is still the most expensive around compared to functionality, and by all accounts it has the best design. A lot of people buy it to show it off - with those signature white buds. If everybody had it, there would be nothing to show off anymore. You may not believe that, and obviously Jobs doesn't - but I think most marketeers would agree.
But it's still *cheaper* than the Zune, which is also lacking functionality, like video.
The features the iPod is lacking are generally features 99% of people don't want, like voice recording, etc..., and you can get those as add-ons.
In other words, the iPod is cheaper than the Zune, in the eyes of 99% of the people has the same features, is smaller, easier to use, looks better, and for the same price.
It's not a Ferrari, or something people get bored with. Your analogy doesn't hold. Jobs' analogy was a little awkward, but it was dead-on accurate: people don't have iPods, or girlfriends, because they're trendy (unless you're 12, according to cwolozynski)
Comments
Jobs needs to remember that consumers do not always choose based on superiority of product. They frequently choose on what they want to do and who is there to hand them the product to do it with. This is what first gave AOL and Netscape the edge on Internet access and browsers. When most consumers wanted to go online, they either had a free AOL disc laying around or got an ISP who gave them Netscape. There was no browser built into Windows, so for years most Internet users were on AOL or Netscape. This is much like the iPod/iTunes combination - one begot the other. Consumers wanted to get songs on-line and they wanted to carry them with them. Apple gave them the first, best, and simplest method to do both.
Well today Internet Explorer reigns supreme for one simple reason: MS bundled it with Windows (along with ISP and AOL access) so the consumer could just buy a new PC and get right on-line. It was simple and they did not have to worry about CD-ROMs or downloads, etc. And while the iPod rules today, much like Netscape & AOL it is ripe for attack.
If MS puts that same clout behind the Zune it will be a real player in this market (no pun intended). Imagine the non-tech-savvy user getting a new Vista PC. A splashy intro to Windows shows the Zune and tells the consumer how it is "plug-and-play" with everything they have. They don't need to download from some other site! I believe the average consumer will go with what they perceive to be the easiest solution to their needs. They want a music player, they grew up watching MTV, and their new computer tells them this is all they need to buy to get what they want!
Here's where Apple can (and hopefully will) win: Where AOL and Netscape stayed stagnant in their product development, Apple should move leaps and bounds ahead. Perhaps even finding some way to partially re-invent the market (again). I hope the full touch screen iPod and Apple Phone are for real, are done right, and are coming soon. Otherwise I think the mere marketing power of MS could make the Zune a contender, even technologically it is not.
What you are saying isn't entirely true.
AOL was by far, the best way to get onto the internet for several critical years. It wasn't the only way. There were several viable competitors, but none had the features AOL had. This changed later. But in the beginning AOL was the best.
The same is true of Netscape. Some copies were given by ISP's, that's true, but they sold many copies at $39.95. I still have my box with it. It was also, by far, the best browser for several years. That changed as well. After MS gave IE away, even before they integrated it into the OS, it killed Netscape's sales, and down went the R&D. By version 4, IE became somewhat better.
Netscape's mistake was in advocating, and adhering to, the idea of an open specification. Every development they made was free for any other browser writer to use. MS took advantage of this, and when they had the major share began to write closed specs. That shut every other browser out, as companies began to write to IE. You know Active X and all that jazz.
But Zune is different. Apple hasn't succumbed to the open spec idea here. MS can't grab it away.
Zune will have to stand entirely on its own. No doubt, people will buy it. There are people who will only buy MS products just as there are those who will only buy Apple products.
But that's a small bunch on either side. MS will have to convince the general public that they will prefer Zune. That will be tough. Even Ballmer had to prevent his own kids from buying iPods.
They might accept a Zune from him, but they won't be too happy.
I expect most people will feel the same way.
Steve Ballmer, you d*ckhead, THIS sells mp3 players. Not just running up to people and squirting stuff at them and touching them in many places. Dating 101. Straight/ Gay/ Bi/ Friends/ Just Friends/ Maybe More/ Whatever. Dating 102: Now, admittedly, *some* people may like people running up to them and touching them and squirting stuff at them. That's cool too. Whatever floats your boat. Just like a brown Zune. I'm not going to hate people that buy them, I'm just going to reiterate how Apple just gets it and Microsoft just doesn't. Period.
....................................
Zune: P*WNED! HA!
....................................
What you are saying isn't entirely true.
[...]
The same is true of Netscape. Some copies were given by ISP's, that's true, but they sold many copies at $39.95. I still have my box with it. It was also, by far, the best browser for several years. That changed as well. After MS gave IE away, even before they integrated it into the OS, it killed Netscape's sales, and down went the R&D. By version 4, IE became somewhat better.
Netscape's mistake was in advocating, and adhering to, the idea of an open specification. Every development they made was free for any other browser writer to use. MS took advantage of this, and when they had the major share began to write closed specs. That shut every other browser out, as companies began to write to IE. You know Active X and all that jazz.
But Zune is different. Apple hasn't succumbed to the open spec idea here. MS can't grab it away.
I think you missed the part where Microsoft told OEMs that they would no longer be able to license Windows to include as the OS on their PCs if they included Netscape as the browser on their systems.
Broadband was far less common and downloading Netscape was a non-trivial effort for typical home consumers. In the business world, it was cheaper and easier to deal with one company for OS/browser configuration and support than two.
I think Microsoft could cut into the iPod's sales, if they could provide Windows software good enough to discourage people from downloading/installing iTunes. But since the iPod is a hardware package, you just include the software with the hardware. With broadband being common today, getting updates is far easier.
A lot of the interest in iPod stems from the prestige that (used to) comes with it.
A correct analogy would be: would you want a ferrari, if everybody else had one?
This product will fail. Microsoft can't innovate, they can only catch up yo where Apple was 5 years ago.
He's right about the earbud being easier than the wireless. Also you get to share headphones with the girl. Another option would be for new iPods to come with 2 headphone jacks.
Tiny stereo mini splitter: $4.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Zune marketplace a rental based program? If it is, history has proven that doesn't work.
Lover's lips analogy is just plain wrong.
A lot of the interest in iPod stems from the prestige that (used to) comes with it.
A correct analogy would be: would you want a ferrari, if everybody else had one?
Does an iPod cost 10-15x what another MP3 player costs?
Oh, nope, Job's has the closer analogy.
A correct analogy would be: would you want a ferrari, if everybody else had one?
Well, what would the alternatives be? If an iPod being a Ferrari, what would a Zune be?
Well, what would the alternatives be? If an iPod being a Ferrari, what would a Zune be?
A hummer.
greg: The iPod is still the most expensive around compared to functionality, and by all accounts it has the best design. A lot of people buy it to show it off - with those signature white buds. If everybody had it, there would be nothing to show off anymore. You may not believe that, and obviously Jobs doesn't - but I think most marketeers would agree.
A hummer.
greg: The iPod is still the most expensive around compared to functionality, and by all accounts it has the best design. A lot of people buy it to show it off - with those signature white buds. If everybody had it, there would be nothing to show off anymore. You may not believe that, and obviously Jobs doesn't - but I think most marketeers would agree.
Everyone already has an iPod, and I have never met anyone who bought an iPod to "show it off".
Tiny stereo mini splitter: $4.
The look on the girl's face as you use the ear bud wires to reel her in for a kiss: Priceless.
A week or so ago while arguing with Woody, the AI Zune guy, I started to describe the same "girl" scenario as Steve used in the interview . I was going to describe how much sexier it was to share an iPod with the cute girl than to leer at her will trying to make a connection with your Zune. She looks accross the crowded bus and you are staring at her while fumbling with something in you lap.
Everyone already has an iPod, and I have never met anyone who bought an iPod to "show it off".
Obviously you have not been in middle school recently. iPod status is very big there, with lots of kids vying to have the latest iPod out there.
I don't think the Zune (especially in Brown) will have much of an impact on the iPod cachet.
A hummer.
greg: The iPod is still the most expensive around compared to functionality, and by all accounts it has the best design. A lot of people buy it to show it off - with those signature white buds. If everybody had it, there would be nothing to show off anymore. You may not believe that, and obviously Jobs doesn't - but I think most marketeers would agree.
But it's still *cheaper* than the Zune, which is also lacking functionality, like video.
The features the iPod is lacking are generally features 99% of people don't want, like voice recording, etc..., and you can get those as add-ons.
In other words, the iPod is cheaper than the Zune, in the eyes of 99% of the people has the same features, is smaller, easier to use, looks better, and for the same price.
It's not a Ferrari, or something people get bored with. Your analogy doesn't hold. Jobs' analogy was a little awkward, but it was dead-on accurate: people don't have iPods, or girlfriends, because they're trendy (unless you're 12, according to cwolozynski)
Yeah, I'm going to disagree with Jobs on this one. The Zune really should pose a rather large concern.
Unless Jobs has some type of new revolutionary iPod coming out (maybe next week) that will blow EVERYTHING out of the water.