Are you saying Apple should have a better selection of lower end cards?
I think Apple's low end graphics cards are too low end. They should raise the bar on the standard cards for their professional desktop machines. An entry level card like the Geforce 7300 should not have been offered at all for the Mac Pro. The Geforce 7600 would make a good standard card for the Mac Pro.
Im actually really surprised Intel hasn't bought them already, considering what AMD did...
So am I. Like really surprised!! Imagine if Microsoft had of bought YouTube, yuck, that would have been terrible. Intel should snap up Nvidia before it's too late.
So am I. Like really surprised!! Imagine if Microsoft had of bought YouTube, yuck, that would have been terrible. Intel should snap up Nvidia before it's too late.
I agree they should as well, before MS gets any ideas...
I think Apple's low end graphics cards are too low end. They should raise the bar on the standard cards for their professional desktop machines. An entry level card like the Geforce 7300 should not have been offered at all for the Mac Pro. The Geforce 7600 would make a good standard card for the Mac Pro.
Why? Lots of Mac Pro's are used in areas where a graphics card is totally unnecessary. Say, for Photoshop.
Perhaps I'm being obtuse but I haven't really seen any one explain in real world terms what they are missing out on with Apple's current system. Well outside of gaming of course.
I gave you some reasons which you seem to not appreciate. Just the choice matters. One doesn't need a specific reason. I suppose all companies should have just a few models of whatever they make.
But, you dismiss gaming, which you shouldn't. Especially now.
If gamers want a Mac, and many do, they can now use BootCamp to run their games at full speed. They would want higher power gaming cards. It's a small market—possibly. But, in looking at some game sites, it certainly seems as though a lot of gamers would want that Mac, if they could get a good card.
Perhaps a small part of the overall market, but if a fair number switch over, possibly a good jump for Mac sales.
Scientific apps often call for a fast card with a lot of RAM, but not a workstation card.
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I'm sure this can be true under certain circumstances. I'm asking what circumstances are those.
See above. Again, don't dismiss gamers.
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I have friends who work with Macs configured into quarter million dollar workstations. I have not heard them complain about graphic card limitation.
Good for those two or three people. They represent a very small portion of the community.
I gave you some reasons which you seem to not appreciate. Just the choice matters. One doesn't need a specific reason.
I can appreciate people wanting choice. So far seems its not a compelling enough reason for Apple nor Nvidia/ATI to do much about it. Hopefully that will change in the future.
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Good for those two or three people. They represent a very small portion of the community.
I wasn't talking about individuals. Some friends who work at a post production company that edits and finishes national commercial spots and music videos. That actually is a fair sized market with a significantly large buying power.
I wasn't talking about individuals. Some friends who work at a post production company that edits and finishes national commercial spots and music videos. That actually is a fair sized market with a significantly large buying power.
Unfortunately not so big. Smaller than the gamer market by far.
The entire production industry buys computers numbering in the thousands per year, running to at most a very few tens of thousands. It really isn't a big market.
But, you dismiss gaming, which you shouldn't. Especially now.
No it wasn't my intention to be dismissive of gamers.
I was being proactive in preparation for an onslaught of them explaining why they want a wide card selection.
When Dell bought Alienware I saw their sales were around $170 million for the quarter. Even though its not much its good money Apple should not turn away.
Unfortunately not so big. Smaller than the gamer market by far.
The entire production industry buys computers numbering in the thousands per year, running to at most a very few tens of thousands. It really isn't a big market.
I don't believe this to be true.
There are numerous types of productions facilities in every city. From large national broadcast facilities (New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Atlanta) local affiliates in every major market, government television, college television, film schools, in house cable production, in house business production, public access television, professional production companies, independent editors. To people like me who have Final Cut Studio to edit my reel and burn it to DVD. To every wanna' be filmmaker everywhere who has some type of computer post production set up.
There are numerous types of productions facilities in every city. From large national broadcast facilities (New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Atlanta) local affiliates in every major market, government television, college television, film schools, in house cable production, in house business production, public access television, professional production companies, independent editors. To people like me who have Final Cut Studio to edit my reel and burn it to DVD. To every wanna' be filmmaker everywhere who has some type of computer post production set up.
I don't see that as a small market at all.
And I can attest, after having been in that industry for quite a while, that most of those set-ups consist of 10 or less machines, with several dozen having between 10 and 100, and very few having substantially more than that.
For rendering, which is what large set-ups are for, Dell or Sun is mostly used. Even Pixar uses Dell, though hopefully, that will now change.
Just how many independent editors do you think are out there? The number is in the thousands, for professional users (Semi-pro and amateurs don't count).They don't buy machines more than every two, three, or even four years, so their impact is less. Even the bigger houses don't buy all new machines every year.
So, at the most a low few 10's of thousand sales a year. Even Apple acknowledges this.
Why? Lots of Mac Pro's are used in areas where a graphics card is totally unnecessary. Say, for Photoshop.
While it is true that my Illustrator and Photoshop work do not tax my video card substantially, when I hit the lottery and buy that second second 30" display, I have to move up to the higher end card.
So, at the most a low few 10's of thousand sales a year. Even Apple acknowledges this.
I'm not doubting you, it's pretty expensive stuff. How did Apple count their announced 500,000 Final Cut user base? Were they counting every sale since they bought the programs, were they counting eacy upgrade as a user too?
While it is true that my Illustrator and Photoshop work do not tax my video card substantially, when I hit the lottery and buy that second second 30" display, I have to move up to the higher end card.
At least you can probably upgrade by spending $400 on the ATI and not another grand for the Quadro. There might be the option to get another 7300 if you have a Mac Pro.
At least you can probably upgrade by spending $400 on the ATI and not another grand for the Quadro. There might be the option to get another 7300 if you have a Mac Pro.
I am waiting for Leopard (please let it be January), and then it is a Mac Pro for me. No need for an Octo-Pro...just some Quad-Pro [quo] goodness...that will do nicely thank you.
BTW, just read that MS Vista is going require 1 GB RAM and recommends 2 GB.
Either RAM is about to get very cheap, Vista is about to fail big time, or Apple is about to become very popular
well...in all honesty, I don't think OS X performs all that well without at least a gig in my opinion. I was running up until this Jan, a B&W G3 300mhz w/ 1gig of ram, and it ran ok with 10.3.9 on it. Anything less would take things like just opening the sys prefs a number of seconds to open.
BTW, just read that MS Vista is going require 1 GB RAM and recommends 2 GB.
Either RAM is about to get very cheap, Vista is about to fail big time, or Apple is about to become very popular
Unless you are using a RAMBUS-based system (like me, I own 3x 4-5yr old workstations), I really don't see that as a problem. I don't plan to get Vista anyway.
Comments
Here's the solution: if AMD can buy ATI, then Apple can buy Nvidia. I'm sure that Intel won't mind.
I like it!
Here's the solution: if AMD can buy ATI, then Apple can buy Nvidia. I'm sure that Intel won't mind.
Im actually really surprised Intel hasn't bought them already, considering what AMD did...
Are you saying Apple should have a better selection of lower end cards?
I think Apple's low end graphics cards are too low end. They should raise the bar on the standard cards for their professional desktop machines. An entry level card like the Geforce 7300 should not have been offered at all for the Mac Pro. The Geforce 7600 would make a good standard card for the Mac Pro.
Im actually really surprised Intel hasn't bought them already, considering what AMD did...
So am I. Like really surprised!! Imagine if Microsoft had of bought YouTube, yuck, that would have been terrible. Intel should snap up Nvidia before it's too late.
So am I. Like really surprised!! Imagine if Microsoft had of bought YouTube, yuck, that would have been terrible. Intel should snap up Nvidia before it's too late.
I agree they should as well, before MS gets any ideas...
I think Apple's low end graphics cards are too low end. They should raise the bar on the standard cards for their professional desktop machines. An entry level card like the Geforce 7300 should not have been offered at all for the Mac Pro. The Geforce 7600 would make a good standard card for the Mac Pro.
Why? Lots of Mac Pro's are used in areas where a graphics card is totally unnecessary. Say, for Photoshop.
Perhaps I'm being obtuse but I haven't really seen any one explain in real world terms what they are missing out on with Apple's current system. Well outside of gaming of course.
I gave you some reasons which you seem to not appreciate. Just the choice matters. One doesn't need a specific reason. I suppose all companies should have just a few models of whatever they make.
But, you dismiss gaming, which you shouldn't. Especially now.
If gamers want a Mac, and many do, they can now use BootCamp to run their games at full speed. They would want higher power gaming cards. It's a small market—possibly. But, in looking at some game sites, it certainly seems as though a lot of gamers would want that Mac, if they could get a good card.
Perhaps a small part of the overall market, but if a fair number switch over, possibly a good jump for Mac sales.
Scientific apps often call for a fast card with a lot of RAM, but not a workstation card.
I'm sure this can be true under certain circumstances. I'm asking what circumstances are those.
See above. Again, don't dismiss gamers.
I have friends who work with Macs configured into quarter million dollar workstations. I have not heard them complain about graphic card limitation.
Good for those two or three people. They represent a very small portion of the community.
I gave you some reasons which you seem to not appreciate. Just the choice matters. One doesn't need a specific reason.
I can appreciate people wanting choice. So far seems its not a compelling enough reason for Apple nor Nvidia/ATI to do much about it. Hopefully that will change in the future.
Good for those two or three people. They represent a very small portion of the community.
I wasn't talking about individuals. Some friends who work at a post production company that edits and finishes national commercial spots and music videos. That actually is a fair sized market with a significantly large buying power.
I wasn't talking about individuals. Some friends who work at a post production company that edits and finishes national commercial spots and music videos. That actually is a fair sized market with a significantly large buying power.
Unfortunately not so big. Smaller than the gamer market by far.
The entire production industry buys computers numbering in the thousands per year, running to at most a very few tens of thousands. It really isn't a big market.
But, you dismiss gaming, which you shouldn't. Especially now.
No it wasn't my intention to be dismissive of gamers.
I was being proactive in preparation for an onslaught of them explaining why they want a wide card selection.
When Dell bought Alienware I saw their sales were around $170 million for the quarter. Even though its not much its good money Apple should not turn away.
Unfortunately not so big. Smaller than the gamer market by far.
The entire production industry buys computers numbering in the thousands per year, running to at most a very few tens of thousands. It really isn't a big market.
I don't believe this to be true.
There are numerous types of productions facilities in every city. From large national broadcast facilities (New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Atlanta) local affiliates in every major market, government television, college television, film schools, in house cable production, in house business production, public access television, professional production companies, independent editors. To people like me who have Final Cut Studio to edit my reel and burn it to DVD. To every wanna' be filmmaker everywhere who has some type of computer post production set up.
I don't see that as a small market at all.
I don't believe this to be true.
There are numerous types of productions facilities in every city. From large national broadcast facilities (New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Atlanta) local affiliates in every major market, government television, college television, film schools, in house cable production, in house business production, public access television, professional production companies, independent editors. To people like me who have Final Cut Studio to edit my reel and burn it to DVD. To every wanna' be filmmaker everywhere who has some type of computer post production set up.
I don't see that as a small market at all.
And I can attest, after having been in that industry for quite a while, that most of those set-ups consist of 10 or less machines, with several dozen having between 10 and 100, and very few having substantially more than that.
For rendering, which is what large set-ups are for, Dell or Sun is mostly used. Even Pixar uses Dell, though hopefully, that will now change.
Just how many independent editors do you think are out there? The number is in the thousands, for professional users (Semi-pro and amateurs don't count).They don't buy machines more than every two, three, or even four years, so their impact is less. Even the bigger houses don't buy all new machines every year.
So, at the most a low few 10's of thousand sales a year. Even Apple acknowledges this.
Why? Lots of Mac Pro's are used in areas where a graphics card is totally unnecessary. Say, for Photoshop.
While it is true that my Illustrator and Photoshop work do not tax my video card substantially, when I hit the lottery and buy that second second 30" display, I have to move up to the higher end card.
So, at the most a low few 10's of thousand sales a year. Even Apple acknowledges this.
I'm not doubting you, it's pretty expensive stuff. How did Apple count their announced 500,000 Final Cut user base? Were they counting every sale since they bought the programs, were they counting eacy upgrade as a user too?
While it is true that my Illustrator and Photoshop work do not tax my video card substantially, when I hit the lottery and buy that second second 30" display, I have to move up to the higher end card.
At least you can probably upgrade by spending $400 on the ATI and not another grand for the Quadro. There might be the option to get another 7300 if you have a Mac Pro.
At least you can probably upgrade by spending $400 on the ATI and not another grand for the Quadro. There might be the option to get another 7300 if you have a Mac Pro.
I am waiting for Leopard (please let it be January), and then it is a Mac Pro for me. No need for an Octo-Pro...just some Quad-Pro [quo] goodness...that will do nicely thank you.
Either RAM is about to get very cheap, Vista is about to fail big time, or Apple is about to become very popular
BTW, just read that MS Vista is going require 1 GB RAM and recommends 2 GB.
Either RAM is about to get very cheap, Vista is about to fail big time, or Apple is about to become very popular
well...in all honesty, I don't think OS X performs all that well without at least a gig in my opinion. I was running up until this Jan, a B&W G3 300mhz w/ 1gig of ram, and it ran ok with 10.3.9 on it. Anything less would take things like just opening the sys prefs a number of seconds to open.
BTW, just read that MS Vista is going require 1 GB RAM and recommends 2 GB.
Either RAM is about to get very cheap, Vista is about to fail big time, or Apple is about to become very popular
Unless you are using a RAMBUS-based system (like me, I own 3x 4-5yr old workstations), I really don't see that as a problem. I don't plan to get Vista anyway.