The beauty of Mac is properly integrated hardware and software.. (allow you to run multiple movie clips for editing without significantly slow it down, or "blue screen"). I can see the arguments from both sides are resulted of different application utilization:
(1) teaching, may not use as much multi-media, or graphic intensive processor time, therefore, it is no difference (how fast you can type? or Talk? however, the keynote software is very cool...I am not sure if kid is running games required super fast response... I guess it is not... just based on the fact that he has a thinkpad).
(2) virus, yes, if you download a lot of stuff, like songs, word files, or just freewares, you are more get into trouble of virus. Text messages are less likely get into the virus... (2k or 3k are hard on virus.. as long as you are not silly enough to click the link)... if kid is doing e-mail only on text, with limited word attachment, you might be ok to scan once a while. If you have to process few Gb per day of info for living, like the lawyer might be of search for reference case, Mac is better. (virus scan is performed automatically daily at most of office for PC - usually at evening, so you can protect the productivity).
(3) as a teacher, if you try podcast, student would love you... try that with proper visual multi-media using garageband would be a blast. After that, we can discuss the hardware superiority...(after you push the CPU and memory to the limit)
(4) as for the look of PC vs Mac, no discussion is required. (thinkpad is more"respect", where Mac would be "cool"...;-)
What kind of "PC issues" would he have with Apple hardware and Windows XP? Toshiba consumer build quality is terrible over the long haul; I'm sure that his problems stem more from Toshiba than from XP.
I'm thinking the opposite. Usually when people say they are tired of the PC they mean the constant babysitting, repairing, reinstalling, searching for drivers, defragging, cleaning, formatting running 8 different virus scans, and malware removal that Windows requires. A lot of people have nothing else to do, so they like that and hang out on "computer security" boards to debate the latest malware removal utilities. Others have nothing to do and like to jack around with settings to "optimize" everything, adjusting clock speed, bus speed, temperatures, cache cleanout, defragging, installing fans, changing video cards, etc. They don't actually USE the computer for anything though.
I agree with what Denton said on the previous page. The X60 is a spectacular computer. IBM has really outdone themselves with their latest line of notebooks. I was fence-sitting between the same options as you, lundy. I was trying to figure out whether I wanted to go with a Thinkpad X60 or a Blackbook.
Ultimately, I chose the MacBook. I got it in black because I wanted something that would still fit fairly well in a professional environment. It'll come in the mail in just a few days.
I say buy a Mac...Because you'll never get so excited about a computer.
I agree with what Denton said on the previous page. The X60 is a spectacular computer. IBM has really outdone themselves with their latest line of notebooks. I was fence-sitting between the same options as you, lundy. I was trying to figure out whether I wanted to go with a Thinkpad X60 or a Blackbook.
Ultimately, I chose the MacBook. I got it in black because I wanted something that would still fit fairly well in a professional environment. It'll come in the mail in just a few days.
I say buy a Mac...Because you'll never get so excited about a computer.
You do know that IBM has nothing to do with the Thinkpads now? We'll see how Lenovo developes the line going forward. My guess is less innovation but cheaper.
You do know that IBM has nothing to do with the Thinkpads now? We'll see how Lenovo developes the line going forward. My guess is less innovation but cheaper.
ah, that would explain the lenovo logo on the website, lol. i was wondering what was up with that. they still have the ibm logo slapped on the case though, correct?
ah, that would explain the lenovo logo on the website, lol. i was wondering what was up with that. they still have the ibm logo slapped on the case though, correct?
No. IBM's involvement with the thinkpads is history.
I'm thinking the opposite. Usually when people say they are tired of the PC they mean the constant babysitting...
No idea what you mean.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lundy
repairing...
Repairing what, exactly?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lundy
reinstalling...
Can't remember the last time this was an issue with any program I was using.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lundy
searching for drivers...
This is 2006. What drivers that don't come with a particular hardware device are easily found through Windows Update or a quick google search.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lundy
defragging...
I can't remember the last time this was necessary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lundy
cleaning...
My iMac picks up a lot of dust too. What do you mean by "cleaning" that isn't included in virus/malware scans?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lundy
formatting...
Apple hardware doesn't ever need to be formatted?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lundy
running 8 different virus scans...
Why in the world wouldn't one suffice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lundy
and malware removal that Windows requires.
No, it doesn't. Don't open attachments from non-trusted sources, don't use Internet Explorer, and don't download crap from porn/warez sites and there's no malware problems whatsoever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lundy
A lot of people have nothing else to do, so they like that and hang out on "computer security" boards to debate the latest malware removal utilities. Others have nothing to do and like to jack around with settings to "optimize" everything, adjusting clock speed, bus speed, temperatures, cache cleanout, defragging, installing fans, changing video cards, etc. They don't actually USE the computer for anything though.
You're describing a subset of computer enthusiasts, not XP users in general. It's like you're criticising all GM cars because a group of GM owners do nothing but tweak their cars to get better RPM, better mileage, louder stereos, etc. You're a mod here, and I respect that (really!), but you're describing the Windows experience ten years ago, not today. XP is solid, and as long as you use it responsibly (and the hardware is decent - such as an iMac, for instance), you won't have any problems with it. I built an XP box for my brother about five years ago, when XP just came out, and it finally died last week. Why? The CPU (Athlon 1200) burned out. How many XP reinstalls did he need to perform? Zero. How many malware infections? Zero. How many virus infections? Zero (scanned once every three months). How many times did he defrag it? Zero. How much time did I spend searching for drivers when I originally put it together? Zero, because all of the drivers for the system came either with the parts or through Windows Update, same as with Software Update in OSX. How many programs did he reinstall because of problems? Zero.
Toshiba, on the other hand... don't get me started. Toshiba has serious quality control issues with its cheapo consumer laptops.
Can't remember the last time this was an issue with any program I was using.
The OS, which always seems to get gummed up after a few months of use.
Quote:
This is 2006. What drivers that don't come with a particular hardware device are easily found through Windows Update or a quick google search.
This is 2006, so Windows has even less of an excuse for when it screws this up. My step dad's computer tries to install drivers every time I plug in his printer ("Windows has found new hardware!") Every single time! It will never find one, but if I click Cancel and try to print anyway, it works fine. My friend had a similar problem.
Quote:
I can't remember the last time this was necessary.
NTFS is certainly better than FAT32 was in this regard, but Windows doesn't automatically defragment like OS X does. Unless you have tens of gigabytes of free space, things'll get gummed up.
Quote:
Apple hardware doesn't ever need to be formatted?
No.
Quote:
Why in the world wouldn't one suffice?
Because any given virus program only finds about 40% of viruses at this point. You need multiple ones to cover all your bases.
Quote:
No, it doesn't. Don't open attachments from non-trusted sources, don't use Internet Explorer, and don't download crap from porn/warez sites and there's no malware problems whatsoever.
Or don't open attachments from trusted sources who might've gotten a virus, use Firefox, which also has a few security holes.
Can't remember the last time this was an issue with any program I was using.
This is 2006. What drivers that don't come with a particular hardware device are easily found through Windows Update or a quick google search.
I can't remember the last time this was necessary.
My iMac picks up a lot of dust too. What do you mean by "cleaning" that isn't included in virus/malware scans?
Apple hardware doesn't ever need to be formatted?
Why in the world wouldn't one suffice?
No, it doesn't. Don't open attachments from non-trusted sources, don't use Internet Explorer, and don't download crap from porn/warez sites and there's no malware problems whatsoever.
You're describing a subset of computer enthusiasts, not XP users in general. It's like you're criticising all GM cars because a group of GM owners do nothing but tweak their cars to get better RPM, better mileage, louder stereos, etc. You're a mod here, and I respect that (really!), but you're describing the Windows experience ten years ago, not today. XP is solid, and as long as you use it responsibly (and the hardware is decent - such as an iMac, for instance), you won't have any problems with it. I built an XP box for my brother about five years ago, when XP just came out, and it finally died last week. Why? The CPU (Athlon 1200) burned out. How many XP reinstalls did he need to perform? Zero. How many malware infections? Zero. How many virus infections? Zero (scanned once every three months). How many times did he defrag it? Zero. How much time did I spend searching for drivers when I originally put it together? Zero, because all of the drivers for the system came either with the parts or through Windows Update, same as with Software Update in OSX. How many programs did he reinstall because of problems? Zero.
Toshiba, on the other hand... don't get me started. Toshiba has serious quality control issues with its cheapo consumer laptops.
Frankly, I think you've got it all wrong. The Apple hardware, while nicely designed, isn't that much better than hardware you can get from any decent pc vendor. It's OSX that really makes it special and unique. Obviously XP works for you and you're happy. While I've found XP with service pack 2 to be pretty stable and good, it still requires constant vigilence in guarding against spyware and viruses. I also can't stand the constant dialogue boxes saying to update this and do that. Once you gety past that it's ok. But it's not nearly as nice an experience as OSX.
Registry problems? It's been a good five years since I've needed to even run regedit.
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Originally Posted by gregmightdothat
The OS, which always seems to get gummed up after a few months of use.
Huh?
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregmightdothat
This is 2006, so Windows has even less of an excuse for when it screws this up. My step dad's computer tries to install drivers every time I plug in his printer ("Windows has found new hardware!") Every single time! It will never find one, but if I click Cancel and try to print anyway, it works fine. My friend had a similar problem.
If you install the drivers properly the first time, it doesn't pop up the new hardware dialog when you plug it in again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregmightdothat
No.
So you're saying that I can continue to use this same computer, doing step upgrades whenever OSX is re-released, and I won't ever need to format the hard drive?
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregmightdothat
Because any given virus program only finds about 40% of viruses at this point. You need multiple ones to cover all your bases.
I'm really sorry, but that's absolutely ridiculous. Do you have any facts to back this one up?
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac
Frankly, I think you've got it all wrong. The Apple hardware, while nicely designed, isn't that much better than hardware you can get from any decent pc vendor.
Show me a normal PC vendor that sells an entire computer that's slightly larger than an LCD screen. Or, how about a normal PC vendor that sells a silent PC off the rack.
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac
It's OSX that really makes it special and unique. Obviously XP works for you and you're happy. While I've found XP with service pack 2 to be pretty stable and good, it still requires constant vigilence in guarding against spyware and viruses. I also can't stand the constant dialogue boxes saying to update this and do that. Once you gety past that it's ok. But it's not nearly as nice an experience as OSX.
In all seriousness, enlighten me. Why is OSX a better experience than XP? I really don't mean to come across as a jerk, and I'm afraid that's how my post(s) will be interpreted after re-reading a few of them, but I honestly feel like I've found a time machine and am communicating with people who are using Windows 3.1 or 95. When was the last time you guys sat down with Windows XP SP2 on a decent machine (i.e. iMac 17" C2D 1 GB RAM) and played around with it?
I feel that I should fess up and say why I bought a Mac in the first place: the last time I bought a computer, I had constant compatibility issues between my motherboard and video card. It was brutal. I tried four different Geforce 6600GT video cards from two manufacturers with two different motherboards before I gave up and bought an ATI video card. I was fighting with that computer for months and was without it for a good three or four weeks while I waited for various parts to be RMA'd. I vowed never to go back to that world again, and I didn't: I bought my iMac and haven't looked back. But it was the *hardware* that was the issue, not the software! A machine like this that comes with absolutely fantastic driver support (thanks, Apple!) is just so bloody nice to use that I seriously doubt I'd ever bother with a non-Apple computer again. I'm very, very happy with this machine.
But as I said earlier, OSX doesn't seem that impressive. Front Row, in particular, is incredibly laggy and is generally unpleasant to use when I'm not actually listening or watching something. What really bugs me is the amount of FUD going on in this thread about how terrible XP supposedly is. Even on release day it wasn't bad. 3.1 was painful. 95 before the first service pack wasn't great. 98 before SE was awful. ME was a joke. 2000 pre-SP2 was a bit obnoxious. Vista looks to be the very definition of bloatware. XP SP2, on the other hand, is a solid piece of software that I'm very happy to use. I don't know what Apple's history is like with its OSes, but haven't there been any versions of OS/OSX that have been a bear to deal with too?
EDIT: Oh, and thanks for bearing with me. I realise that it's been quite rude to introduce myself on the board with guns blazing, and I appreciate the respect you guys have shown me. I'll see what I can do to reciprocate in the future.
Honestly, you might be (or have been) part of the 10% of all people who actually CAN use Windows in a way it doesn't slow down or get infected by viruses in a matter of 15 minutes. But then there is the rest of the Windows "population". Some of them - like myself - have quite a bit of a knowledge how Windows runs and what can be done to solve a certain problem. (I personally ran into a few very serious issues with Windows myself that - after hours of troubleshooting - needed a complete reformat and reinstallation not only of the OS but also of all the prgrams on that specific computer. OS X on the other hand lets you reinstall the OS without touching the applications and your data. And yes, you CAN upgrade OS X from, lets say 10.3.x to 10.4.x to 10.5.x without reformatting and reinstall of all applications!).
But let me assure you, there are more people than you could even think of having all sorts of problems using Windows day to day, trying to do basic stuff that should work, and that doesn't work, period. That might be because of them not exactly knowing how to do it correctly, but frankly, does and must Joe Average know how Windows works internally? People want to use their system, want to plug in their USB printer in what USB port is left on the machine, use the Internet and e-mail. That - for Joe Average - does not work with Windows without installing a decent firewall software and an anti-virus software of any kind. Plus, to be sure your Windows computer is not infected by any worms, virii, trojan horses, etc. you need to update the system regularly using Windows Update, AND run a malware checker every month or so.
Of course people don't do this, but exactly this is the cause of countless problems people have all the time when using Windows. In my experience, prople tend to open everything they get by e-mail and open every link on every website you can think of. Sure that is stupid, but Windows is an operating system that does not even prevent people from doing that! Internet Explorer and/or Outlook (Express) are as unsafe as any application on earth could possibly be - for Joe Average, again.
OS X, on the other hand, has NO open ports when you install your system, it is based on a very stable UNIX core with memory protection etc. and, apart from the fact that only a handful of so-called "developers" write malware programs for OS X - which never go beyond experimental status because the loopholes they detect get fixed in a matter of a few weeks -, OS X was designed from the ground up with security for the user in mind. You (usually) can't install a program without admin rights, there is no scripting language with a lot of flaws that allows the e-mail application to launch the browser to do nasty stuff inside your folder structure, etc. etc. etc.
As a conclusion: yes, you can use both OS's with various applications without having problems at all, but the average computer user and his experiences with Windows show the exact opposite. Ask people at a Windows helpdesk or telephone hotline. People using Windows tend to have more problems with their computers, not only because they don't use it right, but also because the operating system itself has so many flaws that are still not fixed, and unfortunately, Vista does not seem to be any better in that department...
P.S. "Babysitting" means: monthly defragging the harddrive (otherwise the average Windows system slows down to a crawl), updating anti-virus and firewall software multiple times a week, monthly Windows updates, running adware and malware scanners multiple times a month, plus many more things you have to do (say: registry) when you want to reinstall an application that didn't work any more and was already removed from the computer...).
--> All of that is basic (!) Windows maintenance that, seriously, everyone working with Windows support will tell you to do in order to having a stable Windows system.
P.P.S. I work with Macs since 1989, I use Windows since 1988 and Linux since around 1997, and I have used every single version of Windows since then, starting with Windows 286, countless Linux distributions and every Mac OS since 6.0.5 until today. And I also worked in Mac/Windows computer support for quite a few years. Believe me, over 80% of all support incidents were from the Windows side...
Registry problems? It's been a good five years since I've needed to even run regedit.
Haha! That reminds me: I had to play with the registry just a couple of months ago. Well, "had" is perhaps too strong of a word. I believe that it was something to do with Real Player. I swear to god, if I ever meet someone who works for Real, there will be violence done!
So you're saying that I can continue to use this same computer, doing step upgrades whenever OSX is re-released, and I won't ever need to format the hard drive?
No idea what he specifically means by "babysitting."
All the effort you need to put into keeping a Windows machine going smoothly. While it's possible, you just don't need antivirus or adaware or anything on a Mac. Your computer just works for you, you don't have to babysit it to make sure it doesn't get into anything it isn't supposed to.
Quote:
Registry problems? It's been a good five years since I've needed to even run regedit.
But lots of people still do, even with SP2. I'm glad you're lucky.
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Huh?
We were talking about how WIndows randomly seems to slow down until you reinstall everything. That's why lots of people keep images of their system in perfect order and restore it every few months or so.
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If you install the drivers properly the first time, it doesn't pop up the new hardware dialog when you plug it in again.
Well, seeing as how Windows can't find the drivers from the new hardware dialog, methinks this wasn't a user error. Of course, if it were a Mac, the drivers would be preinstalled.
Quote:
So you're saying that I can continue to use this same computer, doing step upgrades whenever OSX is re-released, and I won't ever need to format the hard drive?
I actually wasn't aware you needed to do this on Windows, either...
Quote:
I'm really sorry, but that's absolutely ridiculous. Do you have any facts to back this one up?
You didn't actually think that a virus program protected you 100%, did you?
Why do you think there's so many viruses and botnets out there?
Quote:
In all seriousness, enlighten me. Why is OSX a better experience than XP? I really don't mean to come across as a jerk...
First off, I don't mean to come off as a jerk either, even though forums tend to do that to people :P
But in addition to the cons of Windows (which don't seem to bug you,) there's lots of interface niceties like Expose, drag and drop working better, preferences applying themselves automatically (as opposed to you clicking Apply), the Dashboard, not getting a popup each and every time you insert a flash drive, stuff like that.
Yeah, a lot of that seems small, but they add up: going back to Windows is a nightmare. OS X is just a more polished experience than Windows, even if it takes a week or two to appreciate it. This is why people are called "Apple zealots," because it's these really tiny touches Apple puts on things that Windows users don't even see the value in. But once you try and go without them, you notice it in a big way.
Then there's the stuff under the hood. Yeah, I know Windows has some basic DOS shell and that you can download some UNIX-y stuff for it, but having access to the Terminal is huge, especially one that's a first class citizen in the OS. AppleScript, while kind of a crappy scripting language, is still loads better than anything I know of on Windows for quickly automating certain tasks.
Then of course there's stuff like iLife. Yeah, again, you can get that stuff for Windows, and sometimes for free, but none of it works together, works all the time, or is anywhere near as elegant or, in the long run, as professional. (Except for iDVD, the compression quality there's pretty much crap.)
As someone that works with graphics, ColorSync is huge. Every program, for free, gets fully color managed (unlike Windows, where only Photoshop is color managed, because Adobe had to put it there themselves.) This is why almost no serious graphic designers or photographers use PCs (the ones that do are mostly web designers, AFAIK.)
I'll give you that XP SP2 is very much usable, but it's still a complete pain in the ass. I realize you have time to spend putting everything in tip top order, and getting the utilities and whatnot you need to customize it the way you want, but most of us don't have the time or the patience to bother with that. Macs run perfectly right out of the box.
Comments
(1) teaching, may not use as much multi-media, or graphic intensive processor time, therefore, it is no difference (how fast you can type? or Talk? however, the keynote software is very cool...I am not sure if kid is running games required super fast response... I guess it is not... just based on the fact that he has a thinkpad).
(2) virus, yes, if you download a lot of stuff, like songs, word files, or just freewares, you are more get into trouble of virus. Text messages are less likely get into the virus... (2k or 3k are hard on virus.. as long as you are not silly enough to click the link)... if kid is doing e-mail only on text, with limited word attachment, you might be ok to scan once a while. If you have to process few Gb per day of info for living, like the lawyer might be of search for reference case, Mac is better. (virus scan is performed automatically daily at most of office for PC - usually at evening, so you can protect the productivity).
(3) as a teacher, if you try podcast, student would love you... try that with proper visual multi-media using garageband would be a blast. After that, we can discuss the hardware superiority...(after you push the CPU and memory to the limit)
(4) as for the look of PC vs Mac, no discussion is required. (thinkpad is more"respect", where Mac would be "cool"...;-)
What kind of "PC issues" would he have with Apple hardware and Windows XP? Toshiba consumer build quality is terrible over the long haul; I'm sure that his problems stem more from Toshiba than from XP.
I'm thinking the opposite. Usually when people say they are tired of the PC they mean the constant babysitting, repairing, reinstalling, searching for drivers, defragging, cleaning, formatting running 8 different virus scans, and malware removal that Windows requires. A lot of people have nothing else to do, so they like that and hang out on "computer security" boards to debate the latest malware removal utilities. Others have nothing to do and like to jack around with settings to "optimize" everything, adjusting clock speed, bus speed, temperatures, cache cleanout, defragging, installing fans, changing video cards, etc. They don't actually USE the computer for anything though.
Ultimately, I chose the MacBook. I got it in black because I wanted something that would still fit fairly well in a professional environment. It'll come in the mail in just a few days.
I say buy a Mac...Because you'll never get so excited about a computer.
I agree with what Denton said on the previous page. The X60 is a spectacular computer. IBM has really outdone themselves with their latest line of notebooks. I was fence-sitting between the same options as you, lundy. I was trying to figure out whether I wanted to go with a Thinkpad X60 or a Blackbook.
Ultimately, I chose the MacBook. I got it in black because I wanted something that would still fit fairly well in a professional environment. It'll come in the mail in just a few days.
I say buy a Mac...Because you'll never get so excited about a computer.
You do know that IBM has nothing to do with the Thinkpads now? We'll see how Lenovo developes the line going forward. My guess is less innovation but cheaper.
You do know that IBM has nothing to do with the Thinkpads now? We'll see how Lenovo developes the line going forward. My guess is less innovation but cheaper.
ah, that would explain the lenovo logo on the website, lol. i was wondering what was up with that. they still have the ibm logo slapped on the case though, correct?
ah, that would explain the lenovo logo on the website, lol. i was wondering what was up with that. they still have the ibm logo slapped on the case though, correct?
No. IBM's involvement with the thinkpads is history.
I'm thinking the opposite. Usually when people say they are tired of the PC they mean the constant babysitting...
No idea what you mean.
repairing...
Repairing what, exactly?
reinstalling...
Can't remember the last time this was an issue with any program I was using.
searching for drivers...
This is 2006. What drivers that don't come with a particular hardware device are easily found through Windows Update or a quick google search.
defragging...
I can't remember the last time this was necessary.
cleaning...
My iMac picks up a lot of dust too. What do you mean by "cleaning" that isn't included in virus/malware scans?
formatting...
Apple hardware doesn't ever need to be formatted?
running 8 different virus scans...
Why in the world wouldn't one suffice?
and malware removal that Windows requires.
No, it doesn't. Don't open attachments from non-trusted sources, don't use Internet Explorer, and don't download crap from porn/warez sites and there's no malware problems whatsoever.
A lot of people have nothing else to do, so they like that and hang out on "computer security" boards to debate the latest malware removal utilities. Others have nothing to do and like to jack around with settings to "optimize" everything, adjusting clock speed, bus speed, temperatures, cache cleanout, defragging, installing fans, changing video cards, etc. They don't actually USE the computer for anything though.
You're describing a subset of computer enthusiasts, not XP users in general. It's like you're criticising all GM cars because a group of GM owners do nothing but tweak their cars to get better RPM, better mileage, louder stereos, etc. You're a mod here, and I respect that (really!), but you're describing the Windows experience ten years ago, not today. XP is solid, and as long as you use it responsibly (and the hardware is decent - such as an iMac, for instance), you won't have any problems with it. I built an XP box for my brother about five years ago, when XP just came out, and it finally died last week. Why? The CPU (Athlon 1200) burned out. How many XP reinstalls did he need to perform? Zero. How many malware infections? Zero. How many virus infections? Zero (scanned once every three months). How many times did he defrag it? Zero. How much time did I spend searching for drivers when I originally put it together? Zero, because all of the drivers for the system came either with the parts or through Windows Update, same as with Software Update in OSX. How many programs did he reinstall because of problems? Zero.
Toshiba, on the other hand... don't get me started. Toshiba has serious quality control issues with its cheapo consumer laptops.
I didn't make this stuff up - read about two things:
1. Any Windows help forum
2. The reasons people in Mac forums are giving for switching - almost every single one says they are fed up with hassling with Windows.
No idea what you mean.
Yes you do.
He spelled it all out in the post.
Repairing what, exactly?
Registry problems, defragmenting, virus outbreaks, etc...
Can't remember the last time this was an issue with any program I was using.
The OS, which always seems to get gummed up after a few months of use.
This is 2006. What drivers that don't come with a particular hardware device are easily found through Windows Update or a quick google search.
This is 2006, so Windows has even less of an excuse for when it screws this up. My step dad's computer tries to install drivers every time I plug in his printer ("Windows has found new hardware!") Every single time! It will never find one, but if I click Cancel and try to print anyway, it works fine. My friend had a similar problem.
I can't remember the last time this was necessary.
NTFS is certainly better than FAT32 was in this regard, but Windows doesn't automatically defragment like OS X does. Unless you have tens of gigabytes of free space, things'll get gummed up.
Apple hardware doesn't ever need to be formatted?
No.
Why in the world wouldn't one suffice?
Because any given virus program only finds about 40% of viruses at this point. You need multiple ones to cover all your bases.
No, it doesn't. Don't open attachments from non-trusted sources, don't use Internet Explorer, and don't download crap from porn/warez sites and there's no malware problems whatsoever.
Or don't open attachments from trusted sources who might've gotten a virus, use Firefox, which also has a few security holes.
No idea what you mean.
Repairing what, exactly?
Can't remember the last time this was an issue with any program I was using.
This is 2006. What drivers that don't come with a particular hardware device are easily found through Windows Update or a quick google search.
I can't remember the last time this was necessary.
My iMac picks up a lot of dust too. What do you mean by "cleaning" that isn't included in virus/malware scans?
Apple hardware doesn't ever need to be formatted?
Why in the world wouldn't one suffice?
No, it doesn't. Don't open attachments from non-trusted sources, don't use Internet Explorer, and don't download crap from porn/warez sites and there's no malware problems whatsoever.
You're describing a subset of computer enthusiasts, not XP users in general. It's like you're criticising all GM cars because a group of GM owners do nothing but tweak their cars to get better RPM, better mileage, louder stereos, etc. You're a mod here, and I respect that (really!), but you're describing the Windows experience ten years ago, not today. XP is solid, and as long as you use it responsibly (and the hardware is decent - such as an iMac, for instance), you won't have any problems with it. I built an XP box for my brother about five years ago, when XP just came out, and it finally died last week. Why? The CPU (Athlon 1200) burned out. How many XP reinstalls did he need to perform? Zero. How many malware infections? Zero. How many virus infections? Zero (scanned once every three months). How many times did he defrag it? Zero. How much time did I spend searching for drivers when I originally put it together? Zero, because all of the drivers for the system came either with the parts or through Windows Update, same as with Software Update in OSX. How many programs did he reinstall because of problems? Zero.
Toshiba, on the other hand... don't get me started. Toshiba has serious quality control issues with its cheapo consumer laptops.
Frankly, I think you've got it all wrong. The Apple hardware, while nicely designed, isn't that much better than hardware you can get from any decent pc vendor. It's OSX that really makes it special and unique. Obviously XP works for you and you're happy. While I've found XP with service pack 2 to be pretty stable and good, it still requires constant vigilence in guarding against spyware and viruses. I also can't stand the constant dialogue boxes saying to update this and do that. Once you gety past that it's ok. But it's not nearly as nice an experience as OSX.
Yes you do.
He spelled it all out in the post.
No idea what he specifically means by "babysitting."
Registry problems, defragmenting, virus outbreaks, etc...
Registry problems? It's been a good five years since I've needed to even run regedit.
The OS, which always seems to get gummed up after a few months of use.
Huh?
This is 2006, so Windows has even less of an excuse for when it screws this up. My step dad's computer tries to install drivers every time I plug in his printer ("Windows has found new hardware!") Every single time! It will never find one, but if I click Cancel and try to print anyway, it works fine. My friend had a similar problem.
If you install the drivers properly the first time, it doesn't pop up the new hardware dialog when you plug it in again.
No.
So you're saying that I can continue to use this same computer, doing step upgrades whenever OSX is re-released, and I won't ever need to format the hard drive?
Because any given virus program only finds about 40% of viruses at this point. You need multiple ones to cover all your bases.
I'm really sorry, but that's absolutely ridiculous. Do you have any facts to back this one up?
Frankly, I think you've got it all wrong. The Apple hardware, while nicely designed, isn't that much better than hardware you can get from any decent pc vendor.
Show me a normal PC vendor that sells an entire computer that's slightly larger than an LCD screen. Or, how about a normal PC vendor that sells a silent PC off the rack.
It's OSX that really makes it special and unique. Obviously XP works for you and you're happy. While I've found XP with service pack 2 to be pretty stable and good, it still requires constant vigilence in guarding against spyware and viruses. I also can't stand the constant dialogue boxes saying to update this and do that. Once you gety past that it's ok. But it's not nearly as nice an experience as OSX.
In all seriousness, enlighten me. Why is OSX a better experience than XP? I really don't mean to come across as a jerk, and I'm afraid that's how my post(s) will be interpreted after re-reading a few of them, but I honestly feel like I've found a time machine and am communicating with people who are using Windows 3.1 or 95. When was the last time you guys sat down with Windows XP SP2 on a decent machine (i.e. iMac 17" C2D 1 GB RAM) and played around with it?
I feel that I should fess up and say why I bought a Mac in the first place: the last time I bought a computer, I had constant compatibility issues between my motherboard and video card. It was brutal. I tried four different Geforce 6600GT video cards from two manufacturers with two different motherboards before I gave up and bought an ATI video card. I was fighting with that computer for months and was without it for a good three or four weeks while I waited for various parts to be RMA'd. I vowed never to go back to that world again, and I didn't: I bought my iMac and haven't looked back. But it was the *hardware* that was the issue, not the software! A machine like this that comes with absolutely fantastic driver support (thanks, Apple!) is just so bloody nice to use that I seriously doubt I'd ever bother with a non-Apple computer again. I'm very, very happy with this machine.
But as I said earlier, OSX doesn't seem that impressive. Front Row, in particular, is incredibly laggy and is generally unpleasant to use when I'm not actually listening or watching something. What really bugs me is the amount of FUD going on in this thread about how terrible XP supposedly is. Even on release day it wasn't bad. 3.1 was painful. 95 before the first service pack wasn't great. 98 before SE was awful. ME was a joke. 2000 pre-SP2 was a bit obnoxious. Vista looks to be the very definition of bloatware. XP SP2, on the other hand, is a solid piece of software that I'm very happy to use. I don't know what Apple's history is like with its OSes, but haven't there been any versions of OS/OSX that have been a bear to deal with too?
EDIT: Oh, and thanks for bearing with me. I realise that it's been quite rude to introduce myself on the board with guns blazing, and I appreciate the respect you guys have shown me. I'll see what I can do to reciprocate in the future.
In all seriousness, enlighten me. Why is OSX a better experience than XP? [/QUOTE]
Have you used OSX for any length of time? Burn a CD in OSX vs. XP and get back to us. The difference is about 5 dialogue boxes.
But let me assure you, there are more people than you could even think of having all sorts of problems using Windows day to day, trying to do basic stuff that should work, and that doesn't work, period. That might be because of them not exactly knowing how to do it correctly, but frankly, does and must Joe Average know how Windows works internally? People want to use their system, want to plug in their USB printer in what USB port is left on the machine, use the Internet and e-mail. That - for Joe Average - does not work with Windows without installing a decent firewall software and an anti-virus software of any kind. Plus, to be sure your Windows computer is not infected by any worms, virii, trojan horses, etc. you need to update the system regularly using Windows Update, AND run a malware checker every month or so.
Of course people don't do this, but exactly this is the cause of countless problems people have all the time when using Windows. In my experience, prople tend to open everything they get by e-mail and open every link on every website you can think of. Sure that is stupid, but Windows is an operating system that does not even prevent people from doing that! Internet Explorer and/or Outlook (Express) are as unsafe as any application on earth could possibly be - for Joe Average, again.
OS X, on the other hand, has NO open ports when you install your system, it is based on a very stable UNIX core with memory protection etc. and, apart from the fact that only a handful of so-called "developers" write malware programs for OS X - which never go beyond experimental status because the loopholes they detect get fixed in a matter of a few weeks -, OS X was designed from the ground up with security for the user in mind. You (usually) can't install a program without admin rights, there is no scripting language with a lot of flaws that allows the e-mail application to launch the browser to do nasty stuff inside your folder structure, etc. etc. etc.
As a conclusion: yes, you can use both OS's with various applications without having problems at all, but the average computer user and his experiences with Windows show the exact opposite. Ask people at a Windows helpdesk or telephone hotline. People using Windows tend to have more problems with their computers, not only because they don't use it right, but also because the operating system itself has so many flaws that are still not fixed, and unfortunately, Vista does not seem to be any better in that department...
P.S. "Babysitting" means: monthly defragging the harddrive (otherwise the average Windows system slows down to a crawl), updating anti-virus and firewall software multiple times a week, monthly Windows updates, running adware and malware scanners multiple times a month, plus many more things you have to do (say: registry) when you want to reinstall an application that didn't work any more and was already removed from the computer...).
--> All of that is basic (!) Windows maintenance that, seriously, everyone working with Windows support will tell you to do in order to having a stable Windows system.
P.P.S. I work with Macs since 1989, I use Windows since 1988 and Linux since around 1997, and I have used every single version of Windows since then, starting with Windows 286, countless Linux distributions and every Mac OS since 6.0.5 until today. And I also worked in Mac/Windows computer support for quite a few years. Believe me, over 80% of all support incidents were from the Windows side...
Registry problems? It's been a good five years since I've needed to even run regedit.
Haha! That reminds me: I had to play with the registry just a couple of months ago. Well, "had" is perhaps too strong of a word. I believe that it was something to do with Real Player. I swear to god, if I ever meet someone who works for Real, there will be violence done!
And I also worked in Mac/Windows computer support for quite a few years. Believe me, over 80% of all support incidents were from the Windows side...
I don't suppose that could have anything to do with the percentage of Mac users versus the percentage of Windows users, hmm? Just curious.
So you're saying that I can continue to use this same computer, doing step upgrades whenever OSX is re-released, and I won't ever need to format the hard drive?
yup.
my A$0.02 (approx. US$0.015)
sennen
I don't suppose that could have anything to do with the percentage of Mac users versus the percentage of Windows users, hmm? Just curious.
No, our clients were 60% Mac and 40% Windows users.
No idea what he specifically means by "babysitting."
All the effort you need to put into keeping a Windows machine going smoothly. While it's possible, you just don't need antivirus or adaware or anything on a Mac. Your computer just works for you, you don't have to babysit it to make sure it doesn't get into anything it isn't supposed to.
Registry problems? It's been a good five years since I've needed to even run regedit.
But lots of people still do, even with SP2. I'm glad you're lucky.
Huh?
We were talking about how WIndows randomly seems to slow down until you reinstall everything. That's why lots of people keep images of their system in perfect order and restore it every few months or so.
If you install the drivers properly the first time, it doesn't pop up the new hardware dialog when you plug it in again.
Well, seeing as how Windows can't find the drivers from the new hardware dialog, methinks this wasn't a user error. Of course, if it were a Mac, the drivers would be preinstalled.
So you're saying that I can continue to use this same computer, doing step upgrades whenever OSX is re-released, and I won't ever need to format the hard drive?
I actually wasn't aware you needed to do this on Windows, either...
I'm really sorry, but that's absolutely ridiculous. Do you have any facts to back this one up?
You didn't actually think that a virus program protected you 100%, did you?
Why do you think there's so many viruses and botnets out there?
In all seriousness, enlighten me. Why is OSX a better experience than XP? I really don't mean to come across as a jerk...
First off, I don't mean to come off as a jerk either, even though forums tend to do that to people :P
But in addition to the cons of Windows (which don't seem to bug you,) there's lots of interface niceties like Expose, drag and drop working better, preferences applying themselves automatically (as opposed to you clicking Apply), the Dashboard, not getting a popup each and every time you insert a flash drive, stuff like that.
Yeah, a lot of that seems small, but they add up: going back to Windows is a nightmare. OS X is just a more polished experience than Windows, even if it takes a week or two to appreciate it. This is why people are called "Apple zealots," because it's these really tiny touches Apple puts on things that Windows users don't even see the value in. But once you try and go without them, you notice it in a big way.
Then there's the stuff under the hood. Yeah, I know Windows has some basic DOS shell and that you can download some UNIX-y stuff for it, but having access to the Terminal is huge, especially one that's a first class citizen in the OS. AppleScript, while kind of a crappy scripting language, is still loads better than anything I know of on Windows for quickly automating certain tasks.
Then of course there's stuff like iLife. Yeah, again, you can get that stuff for Windows, and sometimes for free, but none of it works together, works all the time, or is anywhere near as elegant or, in the long run, as professional. (Except for iDVD, the compression quality there's pretty much crap.)
As someone that works with graphics, ColorSync is huge. Every program, for free, gets fully color managed (unlike Windows, where only Photoshop is color managed, because Adobe had to put it there themselves.) This is why almost no serious graphic designers or photographers use PCs (the ones that do are mostly web designers, AFAIK.)
I'll give you that XP SP2 is very much usable, but it's still a complete pain in the ass. I realize you have time to spend putting everything in tip top order, and getting the utilities and whatnot you need to customize it the way you want, but most of us don't have the time or the patience to bother with that. Macs run perfectly right out of the box.
I'll give you that XP SP2 is very much usable
You clearly haven't used
Microsoft Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 Service Pack 2 Rollup 2