Well Samsung could sell Hybrid drives to retro-fit in laptops that don't have the Robson chipset.
It'd still need OS support though to write to the flash on deep sleeping and booting from it again on startup.
It's also less of a feature Apple needs than Microsoft since Apple laptops sleep and wake in seconds compared to Microsoft's standard sleep mode which writes a lot to disk and then reads it all back again on waking.
Booting from cold on an Intel Mac is also pretty snappy compared to most Windows PCs I've used so it's not needed so much their either.
It's quite possible Apple decided it didn't really need any hybrid technology just yet and it can wait till later.
Then I guess we won't see any Macs with this feature until Leopard hits?
Certainly. We're looking at May 2007 to July 2007 as the period for this sort of Tech and rollout in MacBook and MacBookPro.
Of course, the amount of leverage Apple has through Intel would make sense as many have mentioned re: Flash- SnapStart (I came up with that name, much better than "Robson" ) on Macs.
Samsung made a good effort of making use of their existing Flash memory relationship with Apple to propose the HDD-Flash thingymajigger but sorry, Intel was there first.
I makes sense that they'd pass on samsung's tech because that sounds like they'd only be able to offer samsung hard drives, whereas this keeps them open to use whomever they like especially when you consider how crazy fast 2.5" drives are growing...
For the life of me though, scouring the US, Australian and Malaysian IT retail markets, the Seagate 7200.1 Momentus 2.5" drive 80gb and 100gb SATA is hella rare. The other option is Hitachi, which suck a55 in my experience. They develop the "clicketh of death" sound just after your 1 year warranty expires.
I thought, if I get a 1GB 1.83ghz MacBook White, I can easily swap out the 5400rpm drive for a 7200rpm Seagate Momentus. That would bring it to the cost of the 1GB 2ghz MacBook White, but tells ya what, I think a faster near-desktop-speed hard disk is much more worth the cost than 370mhz more in CPU power. Also given how overclockable the Core2 is in general (Conroes 2ghz can hit 3ghz easy on stock air cooling), I'm reluctant to pay that extra for a 1.83ghz Merom when that's just what it's binned at for power/watt/etc; it could easily be clocked at 2.00ghz at the expense of slightly higher heat and power draw. (Edit: Of course, there's no way to overclock the 1.83ghz in the MacBook to 2.00ghz, I'm happy with a 1.83ghz Merom with a 7200rpm 80gb HDD, 1GB RAM.. That would be a nice teh snappy all rounder. BUT I DON'T LIKE THE MACBOOK SCREEN - Too small, colour/contrast changes a bit *too* much when you shift viewing angle).
For the life of me though, scouring the US, Australian and Malaysian IT retail markets, the Seagate 7200.1 Momentus 2.5" drive 80gb and 100gb SATA is hella rare. The other option is Hitachi, which suck a55 in my experience. They develop the "clicketh of death" sound just after your 1 year warranty expires.
I thought, if I get a 1GB 1.83ghz MacBook White, I can easily swap out the 5400rpm drive for a 7200rpm Seagate Momentus.
I did exactly that, on a black MacBook when I first got it back in June. Well worth it for the performance boost:
It would make even more sense with a Core 2 Duo, as processing power is rapidly outstripping other components and hard drive performance is the number 1 bottleneck.
I wouldn't say that there wouldn't be a speed advantage, because there would, actually. It's like you said, though, that 1) HDDs in desktops have faster read times so the technology isn't as needed and 2) desktops are plugged into the wall so power consumption isn't as much of a concern.
-Clive
Power consumption is very much a concern in desktops, particullarly for corporate customers who can have 500+ desktops active and running in a single location.
Also, this tech benifits desktops in that the Nand is still a heck of a lot faster than the drive. You will still see: improved load times, faster recovery from hibernation, fatster boot times, ect...
i just purchased a macbook i just hope that they make one i can slip in and upgrade
Nope, sorry. You would need a replacement mobo for the new intel platform or for the hardrive version that Samsung is proposing, a patched OS, updated firmware on your mobo and a new HDD.
It would make even more sense with a Core 2 Duo, as processing power is rapidly outstripping other components and hard drive performance is the number 1 bottleneck.
8) Awesome. I too definitely believe a 5400rpm drive in ANY modern desktop or laptop or small-form-factor PC is a significant bottleneck.
Newegg has the Seagate 80gb at USD $125 and 100gb at $150. Prices have dropped since you got yours ...OWC has the 100gb at $180. (SATA models)
i just purchased a macbook i just hope that they make one i can slip in and upgrade
Get one of the Seagate Momentus 7200rpm (SATA) drives I mentioned above and just replace your MacBook HD (It's very very easy) -- and you'll notice much "snappier" response. Good enough for now without having to crave this hybrid flash-hard disk thing.
just for the record Leopard already supports using flash to speed things up. For example you can buy a flash EVDO card and set leopard up to use it as a "boost" for your system and startup. Similar to the feature in Vista
just for the record Leopard already supports using flash to speed things up. For example you can buy a flash EVDO card and set leopard up to use it as a "boost" for your system and startup. Similar to the feature in Vista
Hey interesting... But why does it have to be EVDO? Can't it just be a 1GB USB Stick or something?
With the NAND price dropping constantly i hope 256MB of Robson will never see the light. I would much rather see 512 as lowest standard. And 1Gb or even 2Gb on all Macs.
HD. The slowest component in todays PC is greatly holding back the performance.
With the NAND price dropping constantly i hope 256MB of Robson will never see the light. I would much rather see 512 as lowest standard. And 1Gb or even 2Gb on all Macs.
2Gb = 256MB. The case matters when you are writing size.
2Gb = 256MB. The case matters when you are writing size.
Heh. Nitpicky. Clearly he means 1GB or 2GB 8) ...Seriously though, good point, we AppleInsiders need to keep up the standards since this website has become so important and no doubt scoured thoroughly by analysts and institutional plus retail investors . Actually, I'm pretty happy with my spelling now with Firefox 2.0+ having auto spellchecking as you type in forms. And it is set to British English.
...And 1[GB] or even 2[GB] on all Macs... HD. The slowest component in todays PC is greatly holding back the performance.
I think for laptops [MacBook particularly since it is so easy] replacing the hard disk with a Seagate Momentus 7200rpm SATA is the first step that will make s significant difference.
For desktops, I would say the Intel Matrix raid on Intel chipsets is so far the best mainstream enthusiast/ prosumer/ pro desktop solution. 4 SATA hard drives: Critical apps fast and protected, with a good RAID 0 section for speedy scratch disk/ temp workfile space/ game texture and level loading/ pagefile(s) etc. Image:
Actually [confirmed], you could even have 2 RAID sets over 2 drives only - one RAID 1 or 0+1(AFAIK) set and one RAID 0 set over the two drives. So you would have the OS (well, Windows most likely) see it as two logical hard disks. In the event of 1 drive failure the RAID 1 or 0+1 set can rebuild the other drive, which is the important set, while the other RAID 0 set, fracked, but containing non-critical data, it is not a problem.
For PC peoples, this is a nice RAID solution, with only 2 drives. It should be available as of now, or very soon on a wide array of motherboards based on Intel G965, P965, 975X Express chipsets. The P965 and 975X Intel chipset motherboards are strongly recognised to be excellent overclocking chipsets (implemented better by some companies eg. Gigabyte) for Core2Duo (Conroe). Where you can take a 2+GHZ Conroe and whack it up to 3.0GHZ easy on stock air cooling. Sweeet.
I'd have to check with how the RAID solution is implemented during setup, install and recovery, I have not tried it personally. But it is hardware-based RAID, without having to fiddle with a PCI or PCIEx RAID card, which may not offer this "Matrix" RAID solution which I think is pretty cool.
The old-skool nVidia RAID solution for nForce4 AMD64 boards require copying to, then using a 3.5" floppy disk to read the RAID drivers when installing Windows XP2 Pro.
Yeah again I have to say, onboard RAID with 2 Drives (say IntelMatrix or nVidiaRAID[0])is sufficient in most cases to improve responsiveness in a desktop platform over a single 7200rpm SATA drive. For enthusiasts and overclockers, sometimes an external card is not worth the heat and space, in terms of managing airflow within the casing (yes they can be obsessive even with tying up and "routing" the cables within the casing in the right way for optimum airflow with minimum number of fans + minimum fan speed/ noise.
Edit: Side Note: I'd like to see more of the cheaper casings (unbranded) have better sound dampening around the casing, even if it is simpler, cheaper solutions like just some hard-wearing rubber or silicone or something. Idea to self: Get some silicone from hardware store and strategically place near (but not covering) the seams of the metal casing bits. Would it help? Hmm......
For desktops, I would say the Intel Matrix raid on Intel chipsets is so far the best mainstream enthusiast/ prosumer/ pro desktop solution. 4 SATA hard drives: Critical apps fast and protected, with a good RAID 0 section for speedy scratch disk/ temp workfile space/ game texture and level loading/ pagefile(s) etc. Image:
Comments
Due to the fact that a technology such as Robson needs to be supported by the OS...
Then I guess we won't see any Macs with this feature until Leopard hits?
.
Then I guess we won't see any Macs with this feature until Leopard hits?
.
Well we didn't get a new OS for the Intel transition; but then Leopard's due for release at about the same time anyhow.
Well Samsung could sell Hybrid drives to retro-fit in laptops that don't have the Robson chipset.
It'd still need OS support though to write to the flash on deep sleeping and booting from it again on startup.
It's also less of a feature Apple needs than Microsoft since Apple laptops sleep and wake in seconds compared to Microsoft's standard sleep mode which writes a lot to disk and then reads it all back again on waking.
Booting from cold on an Intel Mac is also pretty snappy compared to most Windows PCs I've used so it's not needed so much their either.
It's quite possible Apple decided it didn't really need any hybrid technology just yet and it can wait till later.
Then I guess we won't see any Macs with this feature until Leopard hits?
Certainly. We're looking at May 2007 to July 2007 as the period for this sort of Tech and rollout in MacBook and MacBookPro.
Of course, the amount of leverage Apple has through Intel would make sense as many have mentioned re: Flash- SnapStart (I came up with that name, much better than "Robson"
Samsung made a good effort of making use of their existing Flash memory relationship with Apple to propose the HDD-Flash thingymajigger but sorry, Intel was there first.
I makes sense that they'd pass on samsung's tech because that sounds like they'd only be able to offer samsung hard drives, whereas this keeps them open to use whomever they like especially when you consider how crazy fast 2.5" drives are growing...
For the life of me though, scouring the US, Australian and Malaysian IT retail markets, the Seagate 7200.1 Momentus 2.5" drive 80gb and 100gb SATA is hella rare. The other option is Hitachi, which suck a55 in my experience. They develop the "clicketh of death" sound just after your 1 year warranty expires.
I thought, if I get a 1GB 1.83ghz MacBook White, I can easily swap out the 5400rpm drive for a 7200rpm Seagate Momentus. That would bring it to the cost of the 1GB 2ghz MacBook White, but tells ya what, I think a faster near-desktop-speed hard disk is much more worth the cost than 370mhz more in CPU power. Also given how overclockable the Core2 is in general (Conroes 2ghz can hit 3ghz easy on stock air cooling), I'm reluctant to pay that extra for a 1.83ghz Merom when that's just what it's binned at for power/watt/etc; it could easily be clocked at 2.00ghz at the expense of slightly higher heat and power draw. (Edit: Of course, there's no way to overclock the 1.83ghz in the MacBook to 2.00ghz, I'm happy with a 1.83ghz Merom with a 7200rpm 80gb HDD, 1GB RAM.. That would be a nice teh snappy all rounder. BUT I DON'T LIKE THE MACBOOK SCREEN
For the life of me though, scouring the US, Australian and Malaysian IT retail markets, the Seagate 7200.1 Momentus 2.5" drive 80gb and 100gb SATA is hella rare. The other option is Hitachi, which suck a55 in my experience. They develop the "clicketh of death" sound just after your 1 year warranty expires.
I thought, if I get a 1GB 1.83ghz MacBook White, I can easily swap out the 5400rpm drive for a 7200rpm Seagate Momentus.
I did exactly that, on a black MacBook when I first got it back in June. Well worth it for the performance boost:
http://forums.macnn.com/66/ibook-and...-macbook-some/
It would make even more sense with a Core 2 Duo, as processing power is rapidly outstripping other components and hard drive performance is the number 1 bottleneck.
I wouldn't say that there wouldn't be a speed advantage, because there would, actually. It's like you said, though, that 1) HDDs in desktops have faster read times so the technology isn't as needed and 2) desktops are plugged into the wall so power consumption isn't as much of a concern.
-Clive
Power consumption is very much a concern in desktops, particullarly for corporate customers who can have 500+ desktops active and running in a single location.
Also, this tech benifits desktops in that the Nand is still a heck of a lot faster than the drive. You will still see: improved load times, faster recovery from hibernation, fatster boot times, ect...
i just purchased a macbook i just hope that they make one i can slip in and upgrade
Nope, sorry. You would need a replacement mobo for the new intel platform or for the hardrive version that Samsung is proposing, a patched OS, updated firmware on your mobo and a new HDD.
I did exactly that, on a black MacBook when I first got it back in June. Well worth it for the performance boost:
http://forums.macnn.com/66/ibook-and...-macbook-some/
It would make even more sense with a Core 2 Duo, as processing power is rapidly outstripping other components and hard drive performance is the number 1 bottleneck.
8) Awesome. I too definitely believe a 5400rpm drive in ANY modern desktop or laptop or small-form-factor PC is a significant bottleneck.
Newegg has the Seagate 80gb at USD $125 and 100gb at $150. Prices have dropped since you got yours
i just purchased a macbook i just hope that they make one i can slip in and upgrade
Get one of the Seagate Momentus 7200rpm (SATA) drives I mentioned above and just replace your MacBook HD (It's very very easy) -- and you'll notice much "snappier" response. Good enough for now without having to crave this hybrid flash-hard disk thing.
just for the record Leopard already supports using flash to speed things up. For example you can buy a flash EVDO card and set leopard up to use it as a "boost" for your system and startup. Similar to the feature in Vista
Hey interesting... But why does it have to be EVDO? Can't it just be a 1GB USB Stick or something?
HD. The slowest component in todays PC is greatly holding back the performance.
With the NAND price dropping constantly i hope 256MB of Robson will never see the light. I would much rather see 512 as lowest standard. And 1Gb or even 2Gb on all Macs.
2Gb = 256MB. The case matters when you are writing size.
2Gb = 256MB. The case matters when you are writing size.
Heh. Nitpicky. Clearly he means 1GB or 2GB 8) ...Seriously though, good point, we AppleInsiders need to keep up the standards since this website has become so important and no doubt scoured thoroughly by analysts and institutional plus retail investors
...And 1[GB] or even 2[GB] on all Macs... HD. The slowest component in todays PC is greatly holding back the performance.
I think for laptops [MacBook particularly since it is so easy] replacing the hard disk with a Seagate Momentus 7200rpm SATA is the first step that will make s significant difference.
For desktops, I would say the Intel Matrix raid on Intel chipsets is so far the best mainstream enthusiast/ prosumer/ pro desktop solution. 4 SATA hard drives: Critical apps fast and protected, with a good RAID 0 section for speedy scratch disk/ temp workfile space/ game texture and level loading/ pagefile(s) etc. Image:
For PC peoples, this is a nice RAID solution, with only 2 drives. It should be available as of now, or very soon on a wide array of motherboards based on Intel G965, P965, 975X Express chipsets. The P965 and 975X Intel chipset motherboards are strongly recognised to be excellent overclocking chipsets (implemented better by some companies eg. Gigabyte) for Core2Duo (Conroe). Where you can take a 2+GHZ Conroe and whack it up to 3.0GHZ easy on stock air cooling. Sweeet.
I'd have to check with how the RAID solution is implemented during setup, install and recovery, I have not tried it personally. But it is hardware-based RAID, without having to fiddle with a PCI or PCIEx RAID card, which may not offer this "Matrix" RAID solution which I think is pretty cool.
The old-skool nVidia RAID solution for nForce4 AMD64 boards require copying to, then using a 3.5" floppy disk to read the RAID drivers when installing Windows XP2 Pro.
Yeah again I have to say, onboard RAID with 2 Drives (say IntelMatrix or nVidiaRAID[0])is sufficient in most cases to improve responsiveness in a desktop platform over a single 7200rpm SATA drive. For enthusiasts and overclockers, sometimes an external card is not worth the heat and space, in terms of managing airflow within the casing (yes they can be obsessive even with tying up and "routing" the cables within the casing in the right way for optimum airflow with minimum number of fans + minimum fan speed/ noise.
Edit: Side Note: I'd like to see more of the cheaper casings (unbranded) have better sound dampening around the casing, even if it is simpler, cheaper solutions like just some hard-wearing rubber or silicone or something. Idea to self: Get some silicone from hardware store and strategically place near (but not covering) the seams of the metal casing bits. Would it help? Hmm......
For desktops, I would say the Intel Matrix raid on Intel chipsets is so far the best mainstream enthusiast/ prosumer/ pro desktop solution. 4 SATA hard drives: Critical apps fast and protected, with a good RAID 0 section for speedy scratch disk/ temp workfile space/ game texture and level loading/ pagefile(s) etc. Image:
So you missed the ZFS support leak then?
http://themachackers.com/2006/12/19/...a-closer-look/
RAID is about to become obsolete, at least as far as users at the front end are concerned.
So you missed the ZFS support leak then?
http://themachackers.com/2006/12/19/...a-closer-look/
RAID is about to become obsolete, at least as far as users at the front end are concerned.
I wouldn't make that statement just yet. ZFS still has some "issues", to say the least.