with all those zunies you can really "squirt" into a toilet. what's the return rate.....? that also tells loads. maybe that 2% includes the 1.8% given away to get shill positives. remember when it was announced "ipod killer", it's only taking from it's partners. as i and others have said. MS is not looking to kill ipod but it want to be a big number 2.... to heck with their partners. with all that money why didn't they design their own and not rebadge someone else's??? i'll tell you why they wanted to get "in" now to get press then go after the other "ipod killers"
i posted a picture link of the brown one in a toilet, so someone hated it sooooo bad it would just flush it away.
maybe a zune nano is in the works. they're not complete idiots. eventually they'll figure out that the nano is the most popular ipod and that it is the one they should be copying.
1) If you are in the MP3 player business, you would have to be an idiot if it takes you a couple years to figure out that the Nano is the most popular iPod.
2) I would not be surprised if they release a flash-based player next year. In the meantime, however, they have given Apple another year to cement its dominance. Even worse, they can't go on losing money on the thing forever.** So they are frittering away their "opportunity" to lose money and gain share in the first generation by targeting the wrong device (HD instead of flash). Dumb, very dumb.
3) I suspect that they aren't SO ignorant as to not recognize the Nano is the top seller, but they are wedded to the WiFi sharing, and that doesn't fit into a device as small as the Nano. So they had to go with the current thick-as-a-brick form factor. But what they failed to recognize is that the WiFi sharing is universally regarded as a joke because the DRM is so incredibly restrictive (which was perfectly predictable, because no way is the music industry going to let people just swap songs for free as they walk down the street - duh). So they forced themselves to target the wrong market - and produce a bulky device - because they were so wedded to an ultimately useless feature. Unbelievably stupid.
** Technically they could cross-subsidize indefinitely out of Windows profits, but their earnings would drop dramatically, share price would plummet, and shareholders would eventually revolt.
Were these numbers representing Apple worldwide marketshare, the 2% (Nov) to 3% (Dec) jump would have warranted the sounding of trumpet on websites.
Wrong. The equivalent situation would be if Apple started selling the current MacBook ($1099) at $615 and the current iMac ($999) at $560 and still only had 4-5% US marketshare for the quarter (these figures represent prices at which losses would be equivalently proportional to the Zune loss). If that happened, it would not be impressive. It would be pathetic.
So they (MS) forced themselves to target the wrong market - and produce a bulky device - because they were so wedded to an ultimately useless feature (WiFi). Unbelievably stupid.
Yeah. But that's Microsoft-think in a nutshell... 'feature-itis'.
They honestly think cramming in features like WiFi will be the magic bullet that slays the iPod. Which really shows that they don't even 'get' the iPod in the first place. The iPod was about design and ease-of-use, not cramming in every little seldom-used feature.
With that lack of understanding, they'll never beat the iPod. Gotta love Microsoft-think.
It has been noted that Microsoft was seeding comments on influential blogs and forums where the Zune was getting poor coverage. All of a sudden you'd get new users coming in praising the Zune.
And even then it still tanked.
yeah...
"and the government puts fluoride in our water" ( RvB )
dude are you seriously that much of a conspiracy theorist?
That assumes that Microsoft innovates much in terms of design. They don't. Neither do their partners much. That's been their problem.
.
In five years, the iPod design hasn't changed very much, because there hasn't been anyone nipping at their heels. I for one am hoping Zune to work out all its bugs and keep playing catch-up with Apple, forcing Apple to speed up their delivery of newer, better, and more exciting products.
OS X... kind of the same thing. Vista has taken five years to get here, and the look of OS X, consequently, hasn't really changed. I remember when a new OS came out every couple of years. I am very surprised to see things slowing down like this.
At the rate we're going, by the time Kurzweil's singularity hits, Apple and Microsoft will stop making new things altogether. This paradox will cause a chain reaction in the space-time continuum and destroy the entire universe. Or maybe the effect we'll be more localized, limited merely to our own galaxy.
Actually, I'm pretty impressed. MS had no marketshare at all and took 2% in just some months. It may be going slow, but it could have been a lot worse.
Come on you guys that think 2% is something great. That is CRAP!!
Break it down.... two people out of 100 buy a Zune. These are not people that said "oh my God, I love Bill Gates and I will buy anything M$ makes" These folks are 2 of 100 that are IN the market to buy a player and made a conscious decision!!
The next 83 out of that same 100 that walk by that counter buy iPod.
I would bet that 3% of the mp3 buying market doesn't know the difference between any of the manufacturers. (Grannys buying their g-kids a player for Christmas)
So.............2% could have just been fuck-ups and they won't know it until Christmas morning - when the kids discovered they have been squirted on!!!!!
0. Apple had to compete (or die) as a company so it did so in an amazing way by entering and then dominating the legal music download market--remember the embarrassment not too many years ago of Microsoft loaning money to help APPLE survive--check it out. Now we are seeing the ripple effect of increasing MAC sales and market share (it helped big time that APPLE switched to Intel--genius move).
1. Microsoft must now compete with APPLE in the MUSIC and TV/MOVIE downloads business to keep its overall software share--they did not want to do this but the ZUNE had to be made and they will have to support it for the long duration--it's a must do.
2. Microsoft has shown its ability to take on a new market (games with the XBOX) and win a dominating market share (in my memory its first and smartest move into the consumer--new growth market). The old Microsoft used to be just a 'beige box' company--an old but dead growth market. APPLE's and Microsoft's EXECS must know this.
3. What are APPLE's options if it does for some reason (mistakes, Microsoft determination and overall leverage elsewere, etc.) lose market share? (Read the MacWorld article of a week or two ago). My opinion is that APPLE would have to 'release' its DRM (allow APPLE purchased songs to run on all players). IMHO APPLE would like this not to happen--but it may. How would APPLE release its songs to run on other players and still make money and hold any further market share decline? Realize that overnight APPLE could, if it needed, release its DRM and allow iTunes songs to play on other mp3 players--maybe get some money by a licensing fee to each company/playert?--But how to keep the market share from going lower? And when would APPLE have to decide to release its iTunes songs to run on non-APPLE mp3 players (what is the magic market loss percentage?)
4. Apple, like Microsoft before it (see XBOX above) needs to quickly command a broad market to survive. In doing so they will become (analagously) the Nisson (to Microsoft's Chryster) in a big big digital market. Both can survive, and need to IMHO for good competition--how many of us hate MS for it's monopoly and resultant non-innovation. Apple and maybe to a higher degree, Linux, have gotten MS off its behind for the better of us all. Apple needs to get around 10% total product (plus/minus) (economists in the group can correct me) to be at a safe, minimal happy point--we're getting there.
5. IMHO APPLE needs to quickly and dominatingly enter into all of the following markets: games (against XBOX, etc.), digital home theater/music (against MS and other DVRs of the same), phones+handhelds (against everyone -- best option here is to buy PALM and have instant market share and then go wild).
6. 2007 is going to be a big year in determing APPLE's survival (MS is here to stay for a while--not bad they just need to have less overall market share). MS's new OS is out and has gotten fair to good reviews. MS has entered the Music/Movie download business. Tough attacks. APPLE's big lead in legal music download will be mute if their total market share falls.
I'm curious to what people think.
APPLE lover (an underdog person, a quality lover)
================================================
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyastronaut View Post
like it or not, it's a really big threat and ms is not afraid to throw money at it no matter how much it may take (see xbox). they may be selling just a few units today, but we don't know tomorrow.
Zune isn't a big threat, honestly. The best MS can do is lose a ton of cash on a 'me too' product that is mostly going to hurt MS's partners in the mp3 player space. Knife, meet back. And the Xbox isn't a big success, unless we're talking success at burning up MS's spare cash in the form of losses.
Not to say that MS is *totally* incapable of competing outside the Windows and Office spheres, only that they aren't really the big boogeyman some think they are outside of those areas. Don't know exactly what it is, but they seem to have lost a step in the past few years. Look at how horrible their execution has been in (trying to) release Vista.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins
Zune isn't a big threat, honestly. The best MS can do is lose a ton of cash on a 'me too' product that is mostly going to hurt MS's partners in the mp3 player space. Knife, meet back. And the Xbox isn't a big success, unless we're talking success at burning up MS's spare cash in the form of losses. \
Not to say that MS is *totally* incapable of competing outside the Windows and Office spheres, only that they aren't really the big boogeyman some think they are outside of those areas. Don't know exactly what it is, but they seem to have lost a step in the past few years. Look at how horrible their execution has been in (trying to) release Vista.
To have gotten 9 to 11% of the HD players in the first month against a firmly entrenched company is a pretty good thing.
No, no, no...... Zune got 9+% the first WEEK it was on the market. It quickly, and appears quietly, slipped to 1.9 - 2.0% the next week. - and has been going south since.
No, no, no...... Zune got 9+% the first WEEK it was on the market. It quickly, and appears quietly, slipped to 1.9 - 2.0% the next week. - and has been going south since.
Re-read it please. And re-read what I said as well.
Quote:
According to that firm's data, Zune secured 11 percent of the HDD player market in November
Quote:
In the ensuing two-week period ending December 16, Current has Zune inching up to a 12 percent share of the HDD market
Comments
Me, I'm still laughing about how MS honestly thought BROWN would be the hot new color...
Because it's brown!!!11! Like poo!!11
Happy quinney?
i posted a picture link of the brown one in a toilet, so someone hated it sooooo bad it would just flush it away.
Because it's brown!!!11! Like poo!!11
Happy quinney?
Yes, thank you
Have you seen this video which demands to be mocked?
http://www.cnn.com/video/player/play....tell.zune.cnn
I learned that the brown Zune is sexy and that the squirt function is awesome
maybe a zune nano is in the works. they're not complete idiots. eventually they'll figure out that the nano is the most popular ipod and that it is the one they should be copying.
1) If you are in the MP3 player business, you would have to be an idiot if it takes you a couple years to figure out that the Nano is the most popular iPod.
2) I would not be surprised if they release a flash-based player next year. In the meantime, however, they have given Apple another year to cement its dominance. Even worse, they can't go on losing money on the thing forever.** So they are frittering away their "opportunity" to lose money and gain share in the first generation by targeting the wrong device (HD instead of flash). Dumb, very dumb.
3) I suspect that they aren't SO ignorant as to not recognize the Nano is the top seller, but they are wedded to the WiFi sharing, and that doesn't fit into a device as small as the Nano. So they had to go with the current thick-as-a-brick form factor. But what they failed to recognize is that the WiFi sharing is universally regarded as a joke because the DRM is so incredibly restrictive (which was perfectly predictable, because no way is the music industry going to let people just swap songs for free as they walk down the street - duh). So they forced themselves to target the wrong market - and produce a bulky device - because they were so wedded to an ultimately useless feature. Unbelievably stupid.
** Technically they could cross-subsidize indefinitely out of Windows profits, but their earnings would drop dramatically, share price would plummet, and shareholders would eventually revolt.
I second your motion.
The Zune, like it or not, is here to stay.
Were these numbers representing Apple worldwide marketshare, the 2% (Nov) to 3% (Dec) jump would have warranted the sounding of trumpet on websites.
Wrong. The equivalent situation would be if Apple started selling the current MacBook ($1099) at $615 and the current iMac ($999) at $560 and still only had 4-5% US marketshare for the quarter (these figures represent prices at which losses would be equivalently proportional to the Zune loss). If that happened, it would not be impressive. It would be pathetic.
So they (MS) forced themselves to target the wrong market - and produce a bulky device - because they were so wedded to an ultimately useless feature (WiFi). Unbelievably stupid.
Yeah. But that's Microsoft-think in a nutshell... 'feature-itis'.
They honestly think cramming in features like WiFi will be the magic bullet that slays the iPod. Which really shows that they don't even 'get' the iPod in the first place.
With that lack of understanding, they'll never beat the iPod. Gotta love Microsoft-think.
.
If Apple released Polished Turd 1.0 they'd have at least 5% of any market they positioned it in. Thus, this is an unmitigated failure.
I disagree totally, considering that they captured 9% of the HDD market with only one model available.
How many Ipods are there I can think of 5 right of the top of my head. MS doesn't have any flash based models, they will though, give them time.
I love my 80 gig Ipod and I wouldn't trade it for a Zune but I look for MS to pursue this market aggressively.
But hey, that's good right. More competition means more choices for consumers and less stagnation in design.
More competition means more choices for consumers and less stagnation in design.
That assumes that Microsoft innovates much in terms of design. They don't. Neither do their partners much. That's been their problem.
.
...they're not complete idiots. eventually they'll figure out that the nano is the most popular ipod...
I'd have to disagree, if they weren't complete idiots, they would have started out targeting the nano audience...
less expensive = more sales = larger customer base
mikey t.
Last month's numbers are in and now may be the time for Zune fanboys nationwide to quietly return those pom-poms to their holsters.
pom-pom holsters?
Someone sure went to a militant highschool.
It has been noted that Microsoft was seeding comments on influential blogs and forums where the Zune was getting poor coverage. All of a sudden you'd get new users coming in praising the Zune.
And even then it still tanked.
yeah...
"and the government puts fluoride in our water" ( RvB )
dude are you seriously that much of a conspiracy theorist?
That assumes that Microsoft innovates much in terms of design. They don't. Neither do their partners much. That's been their problem.
.
In five years, the iPod design hasn't changed very much, because there hasn't been anyone nipping at their heels. I for one am hoping Zune to work out all its bugs and keep playing catch-up with Apple, forcing Apple to speed up their delivery of newer, better, and more exciting products.
OS X... kind of the same thing. Vista has taken five years to get here, and the look of OS X, consequently, hasn't really changed. I remember when a new OS came out every couple of years. I am very surprised to see things slowing down like this.
At the rate we're going, by the time Kurzweil's singularity hits, Apple and Microsoft will stop making new things altogether. This paradox will cause a chain reaction in the space-time continuum and destroy the entire universe. Or maybe the effect we'll be more localized, limited merely to our own galaxy.
Sorry, it's late.
Actually, I'm pretty impressed. MS had no marketshare at all and took 2% in just some months. It may be going slow, but it could have been a lot worse.
Come on you guys that think 2% is something great. That is CRAP!!
Break it down.... two people out of 100 buy a Zune. These are not people that said "oh my God, I love Bill Gates and I will buy anything M$ makes" These folks are 2 of 100 that are IN the market to buy a player and made a conscious decision!!
The next 83 out of that same 100 that walk by that counter buy iPod.
I would bet that 3% of the mp3 buying market doesn't know the difference between any of the manufacturers. (Grannys buying their g-kids a player for Christmas)
So.............2% could have just been fuck-ups and they won't know it until Christmas morning - when the kids discovered they have been squirted on!!!!!
0. Apple had to compete (or die) as a company so it did so in an amazing way by entering and then dominating the legal music download market--remember the embarrassment not too many years ago of Microsoft loaning money to help APPLE survive--check it out. Now we are seeing the ripple effect of increasing MAC sales and market share (it helped big time that APPLE switched to Intel--genius move).
1. Microsoft must now compete with APPLE in the MUSIC and TV/MOVIE downloads business to keep its overall software share--they did not want to do this but the ZUNE had to be made and they will have to support it for the long duration--it's a must do.
2. Microsoft has shown its ability to take on a new market (games with the XBOX) and win a dominating market share (in my memory its first and smartest move into the consumer--new growth market). The old Microsoft used to be just a 'beige box' company--an old but dead growth market. APPLE's and Microsoft's EXECS must know this.
3. What are APPLE's options if it does for some reason (mistakes, Microsoft determination and overall leverage elsewere, etc.) lose market share? (Read the MacWorld article of a week or two ago). My opinion is that APPLE would have to 'release' its DRM (allow APPLE purchased songs to run on all players). IMHO APPLE would like this not to happen--but it may. How would APPLE release its songs to run on other players and still make money and hold any further market share decline? Realize that overnight APPLE could, if it needed, release its DRM and allow iTunes songs to play on other mp3 players--maybe get some money by a licensing fee to each company/playert?--But how to keep the market share from going lower? And when would APPLE have to decide to release its iTunes songs to run on non-APPLE mp3 players (what is the magic market loss percentage?)
4. Apple, like Microsoft before it (see XBOX above) needs to quickly command a broad market to survive. In doing so they will become (analagously) the Nisson (to Microsoft's Chryster) in a big big digital market. Both can survive, and need to IMHO for good competition--how many of us hate MS for it's monopoly and resultant non-innovation. Apple and maybe to a higher degree, Linux, have gotten MS off its behind for the better of us all. Apple needs to get around 10% total product (plus/minus) (economists in the group can correct me) to be at a safe, minimal happy point--we're getting there.
5. IMHO APPLE needs to quickly and dominatingly enter into all of the following markets: games (against XBOX, etc.), digital home theater/music (against MS and other DVRs of the same), phones+handhelds (against everyone -- best option here is to buy PALM and have instant market share and then go wild).
6. 2007 is going to be a big year in determing APPLE's survival (MS is here to stay for a while--not bad they just need to have less overall market share). MS's new OS is out and has gotten fair to good reviews. MS has entered the Music/Movie download business. Tough attacks. APPLE's big lead in legal music download will be mute if their total market share falls.
I'm curious to what people think.
APPLE lover (an underdog person, a quality lover)
================================================
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyastronaut View Post
like it or not, it's a really big threat and ms is not afraid to throw money at it no matter how much it may take (see xbox). they may be selling just a few units today, but we don't know tomorrow.
Zune isn't a big threat, honestly. The best MS can do is lose a ton of cash on a 'me too' product that is mostly going to hurt MS's partners in the mp3 player space. Knife, meet back. And the Xbox isn't a big success, unless we're talking success at burning up MS's spare cash in the form of losses.
Not to say that MS is *totally* incapable of competing outside the Windows and Office spheres, only that they aren't really the big boogeyman some think they are outside of those areas. Don't know exactly what it is, but they seem to have lost a step in the past few years. Look at how horrible their execution has been in (trying to) release Vista.
Zune isn't a big threat, honestly. The best MS can do is lose a ton of cash on a 'me too' product that is mostly going to hurt MS's partners in the mp3 player space. Knife, meet back.
Not to say that MS is *totally* incapable of competing outside the Windows and Office spheres, only that they aren't really the big boogeyman some think they are outside of those areas. Don't know exactly what it is, but they seem to have lost a step in the past few years. Look at how horrible their execution has been in (trying to) release Vista.
.
MS has only one player on the market—a 30 GB model.
Apple has two Hd players, and a bunch of others.
If MS had a player to compete with all of them, they would have done better.
To have gotten 9 to 11% of the HD players in the first month against a firmly entrenched company is a pretty good thing.
The question is whether they can sustain that number, and even increase it when newer models come out.
Apple has not exactly been burning the midnight oil in getting a newer HD player out there.
I'm not saying that I think MS's effort has been all that good. But, that's part of the point, isn't it?
With a fairly poor player with only one semi cool advantage, they still did a eighth of Apples' HD player business.
It never pays to be overconfident. We'll have to see what Apple does next.
Don't forget that Apple only has 6% of the computer business here in the US.
Is anyone here laughing at that number?
To have gotten 9 to 11% of the HD players in the first month against a firmly entrenched company is a pretty good thing.
No, no, no...... Zune got 9+% the first WEEK it was on the market. It quickly, and appears quietly, slipped to 1.9 - 2.0% the next week. - and has been going south since.
No, no, no...... Zune got 9+% the first WEEK it was on the market. It quickly, and appears quietly, slipped to 1.9 - 2.0% the next week. - and has been going south since.
Re-read it please. And re-read what I said as well.
According to that firm's data, Zune secured 11 percent of the HDD player market in November
In the ensuing two-week period ending December 16, Current has Zune inching up to a 12 percent share of the HDD market
got beaten to the punch.
I'm also pretty sure that the initial 9% number was either misquoted, or was not explained properly, and everyone jumped on it.
i'm pretty sure as well that they did mean 9% of the HD player market when they released their report.