Sorry, but this does not look good. The options scandal was a relatively minor issue up until now. But at this point, it's involving Steve Jobs. That is bad... very bad. Hopefully he had nothing to do with it, and it was all the doing of overeager underlings. Obviously, if Jobs himself somehow conspired in this, then that's the end of Steve Jobs at Apple - and a very big hit to the company. I'm not saying Apple wouldn't survive his forced departure, but it would be a true disaster for the company... nobody has the dedication, the vision, and the authority not to mention qualifications that this man has in the context of this particular company.
That said, I'm hoping he did not in fact conspire. But that it involves him at all, is not good. What is worse, is that he still ultimately profited from this (read the article carefully)... and that is bad, bad, bad.
If confirmed, this is a major negative.
And it has nothing to do with the stock price - stock goes up, and it goes down. But when Jobs is involved, this is FAR more serious than stock price.
Wake up, folks. This is *serious* business and a very bad development. Hopefully it doesn't get worse, but it's bad enough.
Fully agree. Wait till lawyers launch shareholder class actions for illegal profit taking, false accounting documents, etc.
Unfortunately for him, the iCEO is not above the law, and Apple is like any other company with a 4% market share.
We have all complained at one time or another about price gouging from Apple. Now we know that the prices were so high to quench the greed of Steve Jobs.
There is no reason that Apple should be run for the sole benefit of Steve Jobs. And use falsified documents to hide the full extent of Steve Jobs' greed and its impact on Apple balance sheets.
What does that tell you about the character of Steve Jobs?
Stay away from one man companies, as they tend to deny the contribution of some 20,000 employees. As if one man, alone, could run an international company like Apple and do everything by himself, without any help from anyone.
Martha Stewart did far less to deserve a jail cell.
Sorry, but this does not look good. The options scandal was a relatively minor issue up until now. But at this point, it's involving Steve Jobs. That is bad... very bad. <edit>
Wake up, folks. This is *serious* business and a very bad development. Hopefully it doesn't get worse, but it's bad enough.
Finally, someone grasps the seriousness of this news.
this is my first post here. I couldn't help but post something since I'm not sure how many people here actually understand the situation.
I don't currently own a Mac, but I certainly wish I had one. I think Steve Jobs has made a wonderful job in bringing Apple back from the dead and there is no denial that he was instrumental in the current success Apple is enjoying.
However, this doesn't make Jobs above the law. Backdating options is serious busines, especially if it's done without the knowledge of the board of directors. If the allegations are true and it turns out that Jobs knowingly profited from this, then he will have no other choice than to resign. His position would be pretty much untenable under these circumstances. As a poster rightly said, Martha Stewart went to jail for a lot less than this.
What does this all mean? Well for Apple not a lot although there might be some restitution as part of a settlement. I don't think the board would allow this to go to court. Nobody wants to wash their dirty laundry in public. This settlement might require Jobs to step down, though I suspect he would do so before being asked.
Of course, at this point, this is all speculative. Nobody really knows what the investigation has actually found, but if any irregularities are found, then it could be ugly.
I don't get it. What's new here? Seriously... I can't tell what has changed. Didn't we already know about this?
Why all the new spin?
Anyway... To me the real question is whether Apple's board takes issue with the stock options given to Steve. Investors don't have a say in his compensation. So since the grant was public to begin with, it would seem the board would be the only people with a legitimate beef. I'll withhold condemnation until the board weighs in. Was this what they intended?
to miss the importance of a $7.5 bonus awarded as stock options and not ask about how that happened? I do not see good things coming out of this situation! What did he do walk into the office one morning and hear someone say, oh, by the way, you were just given some extra money! He, being not too concerned about where the next meal is coming from, just might say, I say might because I sure would have asked, how did that happen? Sounds like Jobs shot his left foot playing with a pistol.
Steve if you were in on this, you are a raving maniac!
I don't get it. What's new here? Seriously... I can't tell what has changed. Didn't we already know about this?
Why all the new spin?
Anyway... To me the real question is whether Apple's board takes issue with the stock options given to Steve. Investors don't have a say in his compensation. So since the grant was public to begin with, it would seem the board would be the only people with a legitimate beef. I'll withhold condemnation until the board weighs in. Was this what they intended?
What's new here are falsified documents. This is going to be much more serious than backdating.
Although Steve's an icon, he should be following the rules of the game. If he were to be found guilty, then he should accept the consequences. That is a part of the game. I will miss his legendary keynotes though?
It's not gonna be the end of Apple, as they will allready have plan B up in their sleeves. However, I do hope they won't take the chubby Shiller route, but instead will put Jonathan Ive in front.
As for tomorrow, my thoughts will be with Steve. The past may be imperfect, the future is gonna be tense
I think Apple new this was a possibility which is why they elected Dr. Eric Schmidt to the board. Within 60 days I have a feeling that Schmidt will be CEO of Apple and Steve will "step back" to Chairman of the board. I don't know if Schiller or Ives could actually run a company.
For example, John Delorean was totally exhonerated of all drug charges in federal court but he hasn't been able to shake that in the public mind.
I think Jobs can still do well whether or not he is charged with anything. The fabricated documents to cover it up is very bad though, so he might not do as well as he could have otherwise.
Remember that Jobs returned those options and did not profit from them. He did not falsify the documents, someone else?who has now left the company?did. While he may have known about the false documents, they don't incriminate him iin any wrong doing.
Officially the SEC has not acknowledged this story, nor any other federal agency. They are looking into hundreds of companies that backdated options. While this may lead to some slapping of the wrists and perhaps some future congressional action, I don't think we'll see Jobs taking the heat for an industry practice. And the market agrees with me; the stock keeps rebounding, with large institutions doing a lot of the buying.
Remember that Jobs returned those options and did not profit from them. He did not falsify the documents, someone else?who has now left the company?did. While he may have known about the false documents, they don't incriminate him iin any wrong doing.
Err... no. Pay attention. He did profit from this.
Quote from the story:
"Although Jobs later surrendered those options before they were exercised -- implying that he did not benefit from them -- he was later handed 10 million split-adjusted shares as a replacement.
In October, a financial columnist argued that while Jobs did not directly benefit from the initial grant, he did so on the ensuing exchange because the value of the 10 million shares were themselves based on favorably chosen "backdated" dates."
This is bad any way you slice it. What is bad now is that the scandal is involving Jobs directly, and that Jobs did in fact profit from this.
Err... no. Pay attention. He did profit from this.
Quote from the story:
"Although Jobs later surrendered those options before they were exercised -- implying that he did not benefit from them -- he was later handed 10 million split-adjusted shares as a replacement.
In October, a financial columnist argued that while Jobs did not directly benefit from the initial grant, he did so on the ensuing exchange because the value of the 10 million shares were themselves based on favorably chosen "backdated" dates."
This is bad any way you slice it. What is bad now is that the scandal is involving Jobs directly, and that Jobs did in fact profit from this.
Err... no. Pay attention. He did profit from this.
Quote from the story:
"Although Jobs later surrendered those options before they were exercised -- implying that he did not benefit from them -- he was later handed 10 million split-adjusted shares as a replacement.
In October, a financial columnist argued that while Jobs did not directly benefit from the initial grant, he did so on the ensuing exchange because the value of the 10 million shares were themselves based on favorably chosen "backdated" dates."
This is bad any way you slice it. What is bad now is that the scandal is involving Jobs directly, and that Jobs did in fact profit from this.
It is the journalists who are asserting that the stock grant was a "replacement" and an
"exchange". Remember that Jobs receives a salary of $1 per year. His real compensation
is always in stock or options. Every year he gets paid in equity. You may call it "profit",
but many would call it "compensation". (unless you are arguing that $1 per year is all
Well shit ... I guess Apple IS doomed ... No iPhone or iTV or iMac or MacPro or PocketMac Pro ... no more keynotes and black turtlenecks. It's going to suck watching the iPod die away, Steve and the biard get toted to jail and Apple file for chapter 11. Investors will dump stock and M$ will eventually buy out Apple ... then God bless the Linux guys. Mark the day folks ... it's going to be a sad day when the Feds close us and Steve "the comeback kid" Jobs down for good.
With this stuff, whether or not they say so, it is 'guilty until proven innocent'... Wasn't the head of Enron acquited of all of his crimes? But what in the world does that do for him... He's DEAD! He was ruined! This sort of situation happens not irregularly the government goes after someone, or at least flashes a show of strength, the media picks up, everyone sings their guilt, the guy loses everything with the company, then he is 'blessed' by the government and said that he has no crime...
Now, that doesn't mean that Jobs will be ruined... It just goes to show that someone innocent can be ruined. A lot of it is the media's fault.
Comments
Sorry, but this does not look good. The options scandal was a relatively minor issue up until now. But at this point, it's involving Steve Jobs. That is bad... very bad. Hopefully he had nothing to do with it, and it was all the doing of overeager underlings. Obviously, if Jobs himself somehow conspired in this, then that's the end of Steve Jobs at Apple - and a very big hit to the company. I'm not saying Apple wouldn't survive his forced departure, but it would be a true disaster for the company... nobody has the dedication, the vision, and the authority not to mention qualifications that this man has in the context of this particular company.
That said, I'm hoping he did not in fact conspire. But that it involves him at all, is not good. What is worse, is that he still ultimately profited from this (read the article carefully)... and that is bad, bad, bad.
If confirmed, this is a major negative.
And it has nothing to do with the stock price - stock goes up, and it goes down. But when Jobs is involved, this is FAR more serious than stock price.
Wake up, folks. This is *serious* business and a very bad development. Hopefully it doesn't get worse, but it's bad enough.
Fully agree. Wait till lawyers launch shareholder class actions for illegal profit taking, false accounting documents, etc.
Unfortunately for him, the iCEO is not above the law, and Apple is like any other company with a 4% market share.
We have all complained at one time or another about price gouging from Apple. Now we know that the prices were so high to quench the greed of Steve Jobs.
There is no reason that Apple should be run for the sole benefit of Steve Jobs. And use falsified documents to hide the full extent of Steve Jobs' greed and its impact on Apple balance sheets.
What does that tell you about the character of Steve Jobs?
Stay away from one man companies, as they tend to deny the contribution of some 20,000 employees. As if one man, alone, could run an international company like Apple and do everything by himself, without any help from anyone.
Martha Stewart did far less to deserve a jail cell.
It's time for a new era at Apple.
Sorry, but this does not look good. The options scandal was a relatively minor issue up until now. But at this point, it's involving Steve Jobs. That is bad... very bad. <edit>
Wake up, folks. This is *serious* business and a very bad development. Hopefully it doesn't get worse, but it's bad enough.
Finally, someone grasps the seriousness of this news.
this is my first post here. I couldn't help but post something since I'm not sure how many people here actually understand the situation.
I don't currently own a Mac, but I certainly wish I had one. I think Steve Jobs has made a wonderful job in bringing Apple back from the dead and there is no denial that he was instrumental in the current success Apple is enjoying.
However, this doesn't make Jobs above the law. Backdating options is serious busines, especially if it's done without the knowledge of the board of directors. If the allegations are true and it turns out that Jobs knowingly profited from this, then he will have no other choice than to resign. His position would be pretty much untenable under these circumstances. As a poster rightly said, Martha Stewart went to jail for a lot less than this.
What does this all mean? Well for Apple not a lot although there might be some restitution as part of a settlement. I don't think the board would allow this to go to court. Nobody wants to wash their dirty laundry in public. This settlement might require Jobs to step down, though I suspect he would do so before being asked.
Of course, at this point, this is all speculative. Nobody really knows what the investigation has actually found, but if any irregularities are found, then it could be ugly.
It's time for a new era at Apple.
And during an era that Apple is poised to perhaps finally be a dominant player in the consumer electronics space.
Why all the new spin?
Anyway... To me the real question is whether Apple's board takes issue with the stock options given to Steve. Investors don't have a say in his compensation. So since the grant was public to begin with, it would seem the board would be the only people with a legitimate beef. I'll withhold condemnation until the board weighs in. Was this what they intended?
Steve if you were in on this, you are a raving maniac!
I don't get it. What's new here? Seriously... I can't tell what has changed. Didn't we already know about this?
Why all the new spin?
Anyway... To me the real question is whether Apple's board takes issue with the stock options given to Steve. Investors don't have a say in his compensation. So since the grant was public to begin with, it would seem the board would be the only people with a legitimate beef. I'll withhold condemnation until the board weighs in. Was this what they intended?
What's new here are falsified documents. This is going to be much more serious than backdating.
Although Steve's an icon, he should be following the rules of the game. If he were to be found guilty, then he should accept the consequences. That is a part of the game. I will miss his legendary keynotes though?
It's not gonna be the end of Apple, as they will allready have plan B up in their sleeves. However, I do hope they won't take the chubby Shiller route, but instead will put Jonathan Ive in front.
As for tomorrow, my thoughts will be with Steve. The past may be imperfect, the future is gonna be tense
I think Apple new this was a possibility which is why they elected Dr. Eric Schmidt to the board. Within 60 days I have a feeling that Schmidt will be CEO of Apple and Steve will "step back" to Chairman of the board. I don't know if Schiller or Ives could actually run a company.
How so?
The court of public opinion?
For example, John Delorean was totally exhonerated of all drug charges in federal court but he hasn't been able to shake that in the public mind.
I think Jobs can still do well whether or not he is charged with anything. The fabricated documents to cover it up is very bad though, so he might not do as well as he could have otherwise.
Officially the SEC has not acknowledged this story, nor any other federal agency. They are looking into hundreds of companies that backdated options. While this may lead to some slapping of the wrists and perhaps some future congressional action, I don't think we'll see Jobs taking the heat for an industry practice. And the market agrees with me; the stock keeps rebounding, with large institutions doing a lot of the buying.
There is no reason that Apple should be run for the sole benefit of Steve Jobs.
It is not and has not been. AAPL stock was selling for a split adjusted 6.4 in 2003 and it
is now selling for about 80, an increase of over 1000 per cent. Apple has been run
for the (great) benefit of all its shareholders, which is exactly what they should
want from every CEO.
Apple's employment has increased significantly during the last few years, and those
employees get paid and own stock also.
Remember that Jobs returned those options and did not profit from them. He did not falsify the documents, someone else?who has now left the company?did. While he may have known about the false documents, they don't incriminate him iin any wrong doing.
Err... no. Pay attention. He did profit from this.
Quote from the story:
"Although Jobs later surrendered those options before they were exercised -- implying that he did not benefit from them -- he was later handed 10 million split-adjusted shares as a replacement.
In October, a financial columnist argued that while Jobs did not directly benefit from the initial grant, he did so on the ensuing exchange because the value of the 10 million shares were themselves based on favorably chosen "backdated" dates."
This is bad any way you slice it. What is bad now is that the scandal is involving Jobs directly, and that Jobs did in fact profit from this.
Err... no. Pay attention. He did profit from this.
Quote from the story:
"Although Jobs later surrendered those options before they were exercised -- implying that he did not benefit from them -- he was later handed 10 million split-adjusted shares as a replacement.
In October, a financial columnist argued that while Jobs did not directly benefit from the initial grant, he did so on the ensuing exchange because the value of the 10 million shares were themselves based on favorably chosen "backdated" dates."
This is bad any way you slice it. What is bad now is that the scandal is involving Jobs directly, and that Jobs did in fact profit from this.
Yup. FineWine is right.
Err... no. Pay attention. He did profit from this.
Quote from the story:
"Although Jobs later surrendered those options before they were exercised -- implying that he did not benefit from them -- he was later handed 10 million split-adjusted shares as a replacement.
In October, a financial columnist argued that while Jobs did not directly benefit from the initial grant, he did so on the ensuing exchange because the value of the 10 million shares were themselves based on favorably chosen "backdated" dates."
This is bad any way you slice it. What is bad now is that the scandal is involving Jobs directly, and that Jobs did in fact profit from this.
It is the journalists who are asserting that the stock grant was a "replacement" and an
"exchange". Remember that Jobs receives a salary of $1 per year. His real compensation
is always in stock or options. Every year he gets paid in equity. You may call it "profit",
but many would call it "compensation". (unless you are arguing that $1 per year is all
he SHOULD be compensated)
How so?
With this stuff, whether or not they say so, it is 'guilty until proven innocent'... Wasn't the head of Enron acquited of all of his crimes? But what in the world does that do for him... He's DEAD! He was ruined! This sort of situation happens not irregularly the government goes after someone, or at least flashes a show of strength, the media picks up, everyone sings their guilt, the guy loses everything with the company, then he is 'blessed' by the government and said that he has no crime...
Now, that doesn't mean that Jobs will be ruined... It just goes to show that someone innocent can be ruined. A lot of it is the media's fault.
Wasn't the head of Enron acquited of all of his crimes?.
Not exactly. He was convicted, but since he died before sentencing,
according to law, his convictions were nullified. One implication of
this is that civil lawsuits against him become moot (go bye-bye). This
has led some to speculate that he faked his death and is living in
a tropical paradise, or at least that he deliberately induced a heart
attack in himself, so that his wife and heirs could keep the money.
Geeks love Jobs.
The market loves numbers and anything that manipulates numbers in a fairly predictable way.
Jobs ordered or did not order backdating. He is either going to jail, or he is not.
What about the numbers?
They remain solid despite the financial re-adjustment.
Apple is solid.
Geeks may suffer if Jobs is gone, no more admiration of the turtleneck. Too bad.
Jobs is hauled off to jail ASAP.
Apple suffers like a bitch for a month, then...
iPod phone,
iPod next gen,
Mac market share growth,
Consumers all over, like zombies, march into their local stores and demand what they want...
halo effect biaaatches!
"Oh, somewhere in this favored land the sun is shining bright.
The band is playing somewhere, and somewhere hearts are light.
And, somewhere men are laughing, and little children shout,
but there is no joy in Nerdville --
mighty Steve Jobs has struck out."
but the numbers remain...
ever thought about what dictates the movement of numbers we see on the news every night?
EL HOMBRE is watching.
And yes, I bout a new Ferrari this year. Did I misspell Ferrari?