I wouldn't be surprised to see a Leopard only iWork and iLife. According to here there are significant improvements in Objective-C 2.0, and many new APIs & libraries available in Leopard. I would expect Apple's internally developed software to take the best advantage of those improvements.
But if they do go 10.5 only, then 10.5 had best be released. Otherwise MacWorld turns into a big "in a few months..." and Apple doesn't do that.
- Jasen.
I think iLife '07 and iWork '07 will be the last versions that will run on 10.3.9 because this time next year Leopard will be out and this will allow Apple to incorporate Spotlight into the core of the applications. If Apple really wanted to push Leopard then I can see the iLife and iWork apps being reworked to support plugins. This would be a win-win situation for everyone because Apple can focus on the core of the applications and 3rd party developers can flesh them out.
iWork = meh. I'm still gonna pick up a copy of AppleWorks, even though it's getting discontinued. When I switched to windows a few years back, the one thing that I missed most of all was Claris Works. Having the fully integrated suite is just damn convenient. I've never really had a need for Office level aps. They are too big and bloated, and take too much work just to figure out something simple (like the slope and y intercept values for a trendline in excell) that should be RIGHT THERE. The integrated suite is just better. I'll switch over to iWork when Apple finishes putting all the capabilities of AppleWorks into it.
Of course, now I'm reminded of Grandpa Simpson: "BITCH BITCH BITCH!!!"
...Apple will have their Apple 'works' soon enough.
They have FileMaker as well. How hard can it be to destroy M$'s 'Word' hedgemoney.
Seeing as they hired 3 ex-Claris guys sometime ago...I'm guessing they have a 'pro' suite ready to go as soon as M$ pulls the plug in five years time.
The pattern is that they have pro' versions of all iapps? Makes sense an Office killer is in the wings...while they work Adobe Photoshop over with Aperture.
Celemourn: How is an 'integrated suite' better than independent apps?
Convenience. One of the things that I've found most appealing about Claris, and I presume AppleWorks, is that it's really really easy to insert drawing or spreadsheet or database content into a document. Also, you only have to open one application, which saves load time (very goood for those of us with ADD). Primarily, though, it just has everything that I need, and in the right ammount. I have no need for separate apps. I've never used the full functionality of ANY of the Office programs. Not even close. Having it all in ONE place, and one STABLE place at that, is just really really nice. I'm not Fu-Fu, I just have never needed the 16 tons worth of bells and whistles that come in Office, and I really do like being able to generate a new text document with just two clicks (well, ok, four, technically). I've made much more use of WordPad on windows than I have of Word, because it opens fast, and gets me straight into what I need. Integrated suite suits my needs.
I hold no illusions that separate aps aren't better for some. For me though, meh.
The pattern is that they have pro' versions of all iapps? Makes sense an Office killer is in the wings...while they work Adobe Photoshop over with Aperture.
Aperture has a lot of features to gain, before that's even a remotely reasonable comparison.
perhaps MS has also realized how overboard their office apps can be.... I thought I read that Office 2007 for the Mac would also be coming out this year too.
Celemourn: How is an 'integrated suite' better than independent apps?
Well, the way I read the comment wasn't so much about 'an integrated suite' as it was about that 'integrated suite' (hence the comment "I'll switch to iWork when it gets all the features of Appleworks"). Appleworks is still a very fine program that still blows away iWork in terms of features and capabilities. iWork has 'pretty', but beyond that....
It's no less basic than Pages. Remember, this is a consumer oriented suite (ala Appleworks and MS Works), not a professional one like office.
Since both Pages and Keynote do things you simply can't do at all or can't do easily in Word or Powerpoint, never mind Appleworks, that distinction is kind of silly. Apple don't make it, just people who don't actually use iWork professionally.
Sure, Office does some things that iWork doesn't but It's early days still and Apple are closing the gap rapidly and Microsoft seem to be making the target easier to hit by removing functionality. Not every business needs the full Office features either. I don't. It runs my business just fine, except for spreadsheets, which I personally have little need for since I use MYOB for my accounting. The only time I use spreadsheets is importing/exporting SQL data.
perhaps MS has also realized how overboard their office apps can be.... I thought I read that Office 2007 for the Mac would also be coming out this year too.
How hard can it be to destroy M$'s 'Word' hedgemoney.
Very hard.
It's not the program they have to destroy, it's the near ubiquitous use of MS .DOC format files in businesses and the presumption that everybody has a copy of Word. Same goes for .XLS, .PPT and to a lesser extent Access files.
And it's about to get harder again with MS switching to their new XML based office format which even the MacBU were estimating would take them multiple person years to support.
I hold no illusions that separate aps aren't better for some. For me though, meh.
We'll have to agree to disagree then. With solid, ubiquitous drag and drop, I prefer to choose my own apps for creating specialized content, and then just merge it into whatever final document form makes sense. I've yet to use an 'integrated suite' (Office, OpenOffice, AppleWorks, ClarisWorks, etc) that didn't feel hobbled and like a closed ecosystem. You get the features that *one* app developer thought were necessary, regardless of what you actually need. And no, that's not an appeal for *more* features, it's an appeal for the *right* features. The 'drawing' tools in Keynote are very primitive... and that's *fine* with me. PowerPoint's richer drawing tools still don't meet my needs, but OmniGraffle is *perfect*. Since I can drag an OG drawing right over to Keynote, I'm happy. *shrug*
In what way does AppleWorks 'blow away' iWork? That's a fairly sweeping statement.
Well, we could look at it in terms of apps, then its fairly easy. iWork has no spreadsheet functionality. It has no database functionality. Can't say that I've used Keynote, but its geared more towards presentations then drawing (whether line-based or 'artistic').
While Pages may be a good 'start' for a Word processor, the truth is that its more geared as a Page Layout program then a Word replacement. Its not really geared for the student writing the term paper/thesis. And the simple integration of several different types of editing (esp. spreadsheet/drawing/word processing) just doesn't come easy for the non-integrated software.
But let's be serious here. Appleworks (nee Clarisworks) was developed over a period of 10 years or so (I got Clarisworks 2.0 free when I bought my Classic II). iWork is a 'start-from-scratch' new program. Why they felt they needed to start from scratch is beyond the thought processes of most users, because it leads to the "yeah, but where's all the useful features of xxx", but its what they chose to do. (On another note, how is anyone supposed to make a decision on whether the software might be a worthwhile investment if they don't know the direction Apple is going with it - are they trying to make it more of an office app, or just kind of like it is. Are they planning a spreadsheet or not. What else is coming up? Their secrecy doesn't help let users make educated decisions.
However, I hate it when people try to use that as an excuse. Aegisdesign says "but It's early days still and Apple are closing the gap rapidly". That's nice. How soon will they close the gap, though? Should we just sit and wait, hoping apple fills all the holes people see in the product? And what's your definition of 'rapidly', as I see updates to this software coming at most once a year (until Apple decides they're tired of it and trash it without so much as a 'sorry, folks', like they have a tendancy to do with stuff).
We'll have to agree to disagree then. With solid, ubiquitous drag and drop, I prefer to choose my own apps for creating specialized content, and then just merge it into whatever final document form makes sense. I've yet to use an 'integrated suite' (Office, OpenOffice, AppleWorks, ClarisWorks, etc) that didn't feel hobbled and like a closed ecosystem. You get the features that *one* app developer thought were necessary, regardless of what you actually need. And no, that's not an appeal for *more* features, it's an appeal for the *right* features. The 'drawing' tools in Keynote are very primitive... and that's *fine* with me. PowerPoint's richer drawing tools still don't meet my needs, but OmniGraffle is *perfect*. Since I can drag an OG drawing right over to Keynote, I'm happy. *shrug*
Is it perhaps only randomly generated to appear in the three Macs that I actively use, or do others see it too --Ads on "Apple"Insider for GoToMeetings, Windows Live, and Zune?
What are the advertisers betting on? That there is a large market for Windows in Intel-pples (perhaps larger than we realize)? That some of us might be tempted to switch?
Or perhaps they are stupid? Or, AI REALLY needs the $$.... or... In any event, it's very puzzling....
Comments
I wouldn't be surprised to see a Leopard only iWork and iLife. According to here there are significant improvements in Objective-C 2.0, and many new APIs & libraries available in Leopard. I would expect Apple's internally developed software to take the best advantage of those improvements.
But if they do go 10.5 only, then 10.5 had best be released. Otherwise MacWorld turns into a big "in a few months..." and Apple doesn't do that.
- Jasen.
I think iLife '07 and iWork '07 will be the last versions that will run on 10.3.9 because this time next year Leopard will be out and this will allow Apple to incorporate Spotlight into the core of the applications. If Apple really wanted to push Leopard then I can see the iLife and iWork apps being reworked to support plugins. This would be a win-win situation for everyone because Apple can focus on the core of the applications and 3rd party developers can flesh them out.
Of course, now I'm reminded of Grandpa Simpson: "BITCH BITCH BITCH!!!"
They have FileMaker as well. How hard can it be to destroy M$'s 'Word' hedgemoney.
Seeing as they hired 3 ex-Claris guys sometime ago...I'm guessing they have a 'pro' suite ready to go as soon as M$ pulls the plug in five years time.
The pattern is that they have pro' versions of all iapps? Makes sense an Office killer is in the wings...while they work Adobe Photoshop over with Aperture.
Lemon Bon Bon
Celemourn: How is an 'integrated suite' better than independent apps?
Convenience. One of the things that I've found most appealing about Claris, and I presume AppleWorks, is that it's really really easy to insert drawing or spreadsheet or database content into a document. Also, you only have to open one application, which saves load time (very goood for those of us with ADD). Primarily, though, it just has everything that I need, and in the right ammount. I have no need for separate apps. I've never used the full functionality of ANY of the Office programs. Not even close. Having it all in ONE place, and one STABLE place at that, is just really really nice. I'm not Fu-Fu, I just have never needed the 16 tons worth of bells and whistles that come in Office, and I really do like being able to generate a new text document with just two clicks (well, ok, four, technically). I've made much more use of WordPad on windows than I have of Word, because it opens fast, and gets me straight into what I need. Integrated suite suits my needs.
I hold no illusions that separate aps aren't better for some. For me though, meh.
The pattern is that they have pro' versions of all iapps? Makes sense an Office killer is in the wings...while they work Adobe Photoshop over with Aperture.
Aperture has a lot of features to gain, before that's even a remotely reasonable comparison.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15893060/site/newsweek/
Celemourn: How is an 'integrated suite' better than independent apps?
Well, the way I read the comment wasn't so much about 'an integrated suite' as it was about that 'integrated suite' (hence the comment "I'll switch to iWork when it gets all the features of Appleworks"). Appleworks is still a very fine program that still blows away iWork in terms of features and capabilities. iWork has 'pretty', but beyond that....
It's no less basic than Pages. Remember, this is a consumer oriented suite (ala Appleworks and MS Works), not a professional one like office.
Since both Pages and Keynote do things you simply can't do at all or can't do easily in Word or Powerpoint, never mind Appleworks, that distinction is kind of silly. Apple don't make it, just people who don't actually use iWork professionally.
Sure, Office does some things that iWork doesn't but It's early days still and Apple are closing the gap rapidly and Microsoft seem to be making the target easier to hit by removing functionality. Not every business needs the full Office features either. I don't. It runs my business just fine, except for spreadsheets, which I personally have little need for since I use MYOB for my accounting. The only time I use spreadsheets is importing/exporting SQL data.
perhaps MS has also realized how overboard their office apps can be.... I thought I read that Office 2007 for the Mac would also be coming out this year too.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15893060/site/newsweek/
That would be really nice if Office 2007 for Mac came out this year. Right around Leopard's release!
How hard can it be to destroy M$'s 'Word' hedgemoney.
Very hard.
It's not the program they have to destroy, it's the near ubiquitous use of MS .DOC format files in businesses and the presumption that everybody has a copy of Word. Same goes for .XLS, .PPT and to a lesser extent Access files.
And it's about to get harder again with MS switching to their new XML based office format which even the MacBU were estimating would take them multiple person years to support.
Appleworks is still a very fine program that still blows away iWork in terms of features and capabilities. iWork has 'pretty', but beyond that....
In what way does AppleWorks 'blow away' iWork? That's a fairly sweeping statement.
I hold no illusions that separate aps aren't better for some. For me though, meh.
We'll have to agree to disagree then. With solid, ubiquitous drag and drop, I prefer to choose my own apps for creating specialized content, and then just merge it into whatever final document form makes sense. I've yet to use an 'integrated suite' (Office, OpenOffice, AppleWorks, ClarisWorks, etc) that didn't feel hobbled and like a closed ecosystem. You get the features that *one* app developer thought were necessary, regardless of what you actually need. And no, that's not an appeal for *more* features, it's an appeal for the *right* features. The 'drawing' tools in Keynote are very primitive... and that's *fine* with me. PowerPoint's richer drawing tools still don't meet my needs, but OmniGraffle is *perfect*. Since I can drag an OG drawing right over to Keynote, I'm happy. *shrug*
In what way does AppleWorks 'blow away' iWork? That's a fairly sweeping statement.
Well, we could look at it in terms of apps, then its fairly easy. iWork has no spreadsheet functionality. It has no database functionality. Can't say that I've used Keynote, but its geared more towards presentations then drawing (whether line-based or 'artistic').
While Pages may be a good 'start' for a Word processor, the truth is that its more geared as a Page Layout program then a Word replacement. Its not really geared for the student writing the term paper/thesis. And the simple integration of several different types of editing (esp. spreadsheet/drawing/word processing) just doesn't come easy for the non-integrated software.
But let's be serious here. Appleworks (nee Clarisworks) was developed over a period of 10 years or so (I got Clarisworks 2.0 free when I bought my Classic II). iWork is a 'start-from-scratch' new program. Why they felt they needed to start from scratch is beyond the thought processes of most users, because it leads to the "yeah, but where's all the useful features of xxx", but its what they chose to do. (On another note, how is anyone supposed to make a decision on whether the software might be a worthwhile investment if they don't know the direction Apple is going with it - are they trying to make it more of an office app, or just kind of like it is. Are they planning a spreadsheet or not. What else is coming up? Their secrecy doesn't help let users make educated decisions.
However, I hate it when people try to use that as an excuse. Aegisdesign says "but It's early days still and Apple are closing the gap rapidly". That's nice. How soon will they close the gap, though? Should we just sit and wait, hoping apple fills all the holes people see in the product? And what's your definition of 'rapidly', as I see updates to this software coming at most once a year (until Apple decides they're tired of it and trash it without so much as a 'sorry, folks', like they have a tendancy to do with stuff).
I impressed the hell out of my teachers in 5ht/6th grade using those two.
Ahh, for the days of making something in Paint, putting in on the clipboard, ejecting the disk putting in the MacWrite disk!
We'll have to agree to disagree then. With solid, ubiquitous drag and drop, I prefer to choose my own apps for creating specialized content, and then just merge it into whatever final document form makes sense. I've yet to use an 'integrated suite' (Office, OpenOffice, AppleWorks, ClarisWorks, etc) that didn't feel hobbled and like a closed ecosystem. You get the features that *one* app developer thought were necessary, regardless of what you actually need. And no, that's not an appeal for *more* features, it's an appeal for the *right* features. The 'drawing' tools in Keynote are very primitive... and that's *fine* with me. PowerPoint's richer drawing tools still don't meet my needs, but OmniGraffle is *perfect*. Since I can drag an OG drawing right over to Keynote, I'm happy. *shrug*
and Appleworks is $30, rather than $300.
What are the advertisers betting on? That there is a large market for Windows in Intel-pples (perhaps larger than we realize)? That some of us might be tempted to switch?
Or perhaps they are stupid? Or, AI REALLY needs the $$.... or... In any event, it's very puzzling....