In another thread I was trying to think through the problem of having to have your TV turned on to use AppleTV, if all you wanted was AirTunes type functionality.
I don't follow you here. What exactly is your point?
The Harmony devices are products that I really can't stand. Let's just say that I have made a simple IR remote with IR LEDs and a microcontroller, and the Harmony system is still irritating and baffling to me. The the Windows client is actually a stripped-down web browser that also downloads updated firmware to the remote you connect by USB. The OS X client is more of a kluge, you use a regular web browser, but the site sends you files to send to a program that downloads the firmware to the remote.
There's an app for Mac OS X too, and it's also a stripped down browser.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
Any of the combo events that involve device power on or off doesn't work well if the device "power" command toggles the device power on or off rather than having separate on and off commands.
In another thread I was trying to think through the problem of having to have your TV turned on to use AppleTV, if all you wanted was AirTunes type functionality.
Good point.
I have airtunes (with Airport Express) feeding my 2 high end Audio Hifi setups.
Right now I point the Newvo to my Mac mini and it streams to both the setups and I turn on the Amp on which one I want to hear.
But with the Apple tv I will probably have to add a small LCD to each of the setups and a Apple tv to each. This way I can have them both play different tunes with a different cooler interface. Oh Aplle , why do you make me spend money ?
Define 'couple of months' - 7.0 was released back in August and 7.0.2.1 with a new interface was released in November or December.
7.0 was Windows only for a while. I think I bought mine in October and all they had for OS X was 5.0, that's all the Logitech site pointed to. Even then, it's a pretty crummy Web 1.0 site that is very inflexible, if I make a mistake in step 6 of 12, I have to re-do all twelve steps to fix that setting in step 6.
I don't follow you here. What exactly is your point?
I wasn't the OP on this, but the concern was: if AppleTV replicates the functionality of AirTunes, does it mean that one has to have the TV on to use it?
With the existing AirTunes set up, I just hit play on iTunes and walk away. I'm likely to have my computer on all the time, either asleep or actively doing something else, so my wireless music is typically just a single click away, if I keep the mini controller on top.
It would appear that to accomplish the same result with AppleTV I would have to turn on the TV, choose the AppleTV input, and navigate to the music folder. If so, it's actually harder to use than AirTunes, for this specific task.
Isn't Apple moving towards bluetooth? Not good news for a universal remote.
I have and am very happy with a Harmony 880 universal remote. First of all, if you paid $249 for it you got took. If you search on-line you can often find it in the $150-175 range and I've even seen it for $129 occasionally.
You set up the remote using Harmony's web based software and, as someone else has noted it's awful, reminding one of most poorly programed MS software. What I dislike most about it is it's not intuitive, you kind of have to blunder your way through it the first few times. While I'm not very good at setting up things, I can read and understand instructions and it took me several tries before I got the software to work in an understandable manner. But once that happened, I was home free and have my remote programed to operate the Comcast PVR, LD player, DVD, receiver and plasma, giving me total one remote control, which even my totally clueless Luddite wife can use.
I think the great strength of the Harmony 880 is the activity menu which you set up on-line. For example if I want to watch the plasma, the remote turns on the PVR, plasma and receiver, and sets the plasma and receiver to the correct inputs.
The remote also has a device menu where you can set up specific feature of your device that don't appear in the activity menu. An example of this is power on/power off.
I will admit, though, that the first time I tried to set it up it was very frustrating, but once set up it's a dream to use.
Isn't Apple moving towards bluetooth? Not good news for a universal remote.
I have and am very happy with a Harmony 880 universal remote. First of all, if you paid $249 for it you got took. If you search on-line you can often find it in the $150-175 range and I've even seen it for $129 occasionally.
You set up the remote using Harmony's web based software and, as someone else has noted it's awful, reminding one of most poorly programed MS software. What I dislike most about it is it's not intuitive, you kind of have to blunder your way through it the first few times. While I'm not very good at setting up things, I can read and understand instructions and it took me several tries before I got the software to work in an understandable manner. But once that happened, I was home free and have my remote programed to operate the Comcast PVR, LD player, DVD, receiver and plasma, giving me total one remote control, which even my totally clueless Luddite wife can use.
I think the great strength of the Harmony 880 is the activity menu which you set up on-line. For example if I want to watch the plasma, the remote turns on the PVR, plasma and receiver, and sets the plasma and receiver to the correct inputs.
The remote also has a device menu where you can set up specific feature of your device that don't appear in the activity menu. An example of this is power on/power off.
I will admit, though, that the first time I tried to set it up it was very frustrating, but once set up it's a dream to use.
OK, but which strikes you as the more user friendly set-up, this:
or this:
Just imagine the bottom row of icons being plasma, DVR, DVD, Receiver and LD.
Then whatever macros you want in the group up top ("watch DVD with surround", "listen to radio", etc.)
Then imagine that the whole "programming" process is bone simple, with an online graphic interface for specifying your interconnects (maybe something akin to OmniGraffle).
For simple device control just download the particiular widget, right on the remote.
OK, but which strikes you as the more user friendly set-up, this:
or this:
Just imagine the bottom row of icons being plasma, DVR, DVD, Receiver and LD.
Then whatever macros you want in the group up top ("watch DVD with surround", "listen to radio", etc.)
Then imagine that the whole "programming" process is bone simple, with an online graphic interface for specifying your interconnects (maybe something akin to OmniGraffle).
For simple device control just download the particiular widget, right on the remote.
I'm not arguing and while we're dreaming let's also include voice recognition commands.
The point I was trying to make is that the Harmony 880 is here NOW and even with a confusing setup procedure it actually works. Who knows when or even if Apple will come out with a universal remote.
I'm not arguing and while we're dreaming let's also include voice recognition commands.
The point I was trying to make is that the Harmony 880 is here NOW and even with a confusing setup procedure it actually works. Who knows when or even if Apple will come out with a universal remote.
True enough, what I'm getting at is that the current remote scene is very much like the current cell phone scene: while there are models available that are better at dealing with interface clutter and exposing functionality, none of them are really very good, assuming your definition of "good" is something like "how I would like my remote to work if I had never seen a remote."
This is exactly the kind of environment into which Apple can make major inroads, which makes an Apple remote at least more likely, if not "I expect to see it in the next three months" likely.
But it has to have crossed the minds of the people at Apple, it's just too obvious.
If, knowing how Apple prices things, the price will probably be in the $399 - $499 range. If it would work with both IR and bluetooth the people over on AVSform would lap it up.
If, knowing how Apple prices things, the price will probably be in the $399 - $499 range. If it would work with both IR and bluetooth the people over on AVSform would lap it up.
You think? I can't quite see Apple pricing something like a remote, with maybe 20% of the functionality of the iPhone, within hailing distance of the iPhone itself. I think even Apple knows that a $500 remote would be a tough sell, no matter how good a job it did.
I would guess something like $200-$250, which would put it in the mainstream of sophisticated programable remotes. Bearing in mind here that some of the fiercer, more expensive remotes on the market are part of whole house systems, which I don't think Apple would do.
I wanted to bump this thread because we now have specific mention from Apple, in their "media hub" patent filing, of the use of a mobile phone as a remote. It doesn't specifically mention iPhone, just a mobile phone in general. Here's the full paragraph that mentions it:
Quote:
Recently, remote controllers have begun to be utilized with computers. These remote controllers can mimic keyboard or mouse events for the computers. One solution uses an infrared receiver device that connects to a Universal Serial Bus (USB) port of a computer via a USB cable, and an infrared remote controller that uses infrared transmissions that can be received by the infrared receiver device and supplied to the computer. For example, such a remote controller allows a user to control multimedia applications on the computer. This approach is an aftermarket solution to provide remote control capabilities to existing computers. Another solution connects a receiver device to an Airport Express.RTM. unit that wirelessly transmits to a corresponding wireless transceiver within the computer, such as a Macintosh computer from Apple Computer, Inc. Airport Express.RTM. is Apple Computer's mobile base station that features analog and digital audio outputs that can be connected to a home stereo, and enables users to wirelessly stream music from iTunes.RTM. media management program on their computer to any room in the house. Still another solution uses Bluetooth compatible handheld devices, such as a mobile phone, to serve as a remote controller for a Macintosh computer. This solution requires installation of software on the mobile phone as well as the computer. Once the software is installed, the mobile phone can be used to control popular programs such as iTunes.RTM. media management program from Apple Computer, Inc. For example, in controlling iTunes.RTM. media management program using this solution, the user can use the directional controls on the mobile phone to change listing volume, skip forward and backward, play/pause, etc.
Maybe I'm just old fashion but I don't like the Swiss Army knife approach. I want a camera that's a camera, a phone that's a phone and a universal remote that's a universal remote, not some mishmash of technologies.
If there is any merit to the idea of an Apple Universal Remote (which I'm not sure there is); then I think it's more likely related to the new patents for the MEDIA HUB recently uncovered.
Instead of 'programming' a remote like you do with the Harmony, imagine a device that 'talked' to all of your equipment and 'just worked'. Apple appears to be preparing a new standard for device communications whereby a single, AppleTV like device and interface could display, manage, and control every device in your home theater. Presumably, this would require some sort of 'dongle', IR blaster, or (More likely) entirely new DVD players etc. with built in 802.11 communications.
Maybe I'm just old fashion but I don't like the Swiss Army knife approach. I want a camera that's a camera, a phone that's a phone and a universal remote that's a universal remote, not some mishmash of technologies.
I agree generally, but imagine if you already have an iPhone, and it's just a software download to give it the remote functionality. I'd rather do that than pay x hundred dollars for each.
Comments
In another thread I was trying to think through the problem of having to have your TV turned on to use AppleTV, if all you wanted was AirTunes type functionality.
I don't follow you here. What exactly is your point?
The Harmony devices are products that I really can't stand. Let's just say that I have made a simple IR remote with IR LEDs and a microcontroller, and the Harmony system is still irritating and baffling to me. The the Windows client is actually a stripped-down web browser that also downloads updated firmware to the remote you connect by USB. The OS X client is more of a kluge, you use a regular web browser, but the site sends you files to send to a program that downloads the firmware to the remote.
There's an app for Mac OS X too, and it's also a stripped down browser.
Any of the combo events that involve device power on or off doesn't work well if the device "power" command toggles the device power on or off rather than having separate on and off commands.
No problems here.
In another thread I was trying to think through the problem of having to have your TV turned on to use AppleTV, if all you wanted was AirTunes type functionality.
Good point.
I have airtunes (with Airport Express) feeding my 2 high end Audio Hifi setups.
Right now I point the Newvo to my Mac mini and it streams to both the setups and I turn on the Amp on which one I want to hear.
But with the Apple tv I will probably have to add a small LCD to each of the setups and a Apple tv to each. This way I can have them both play different tunes with a different cooler interface. Oh Aplle , why do you make me spend money ?
There's an app for Mac OS X too, and it's also a stripped down browser.
Unless it was released in the last couple months, or Logitech was hiding this program all along, the OS X software is not a stripped-down browser.
Define 'couple of months' - 7.0 was released back in August and 7.0.2.1 with a new interface was released in November or December.
7.0 was Windows only for a while. I think I bought mine in October and all they had for OS X was 5.0, that's all the Logitech site pointed to. Even then, it's a pretty crummy Web 1.0 site that is very inflexible, if I make a mistake in step 6 of 12, I have to re-do all twelve steps to fix that setting in step 6.
7.0 was Windows only for a while. I think I bought mine in October and all they had for OS X was 5.0, that's all the Logitech site pointed to.
Their site doesn't even point to the latest version today. 7.0 was released for Mac OS X in August.
Their site doesn't even point to the latest version today. 7.0 was released for Mac OS X in August.
How did you find the latest version if the official site doesn't point to it?
I don't follow you here. What exactly is your point?
I wasn't the OP on this, but the concern was: if AppleTV replicates the functionality of AirTunes, does it mean that one has to have the TV on to use it?
With the existing AirTunes set up, I just hit play on iTunes and walk away. I'm likely to have my computer on all the time, either asleep or actively doing something else, so my wireless music is typically just a single click away, if I keep the mini controller on top.
It would appear that to accomplish the same result with AppleTV I would have to turn on the TV, choose the AppleTV input, and navigate to the music folder. If so, it's actually harder to use than AirTunes, for this specific task.
Isn't Apple moving towards bluetooth? Not good news for a universal remote.
I have and am very happy with a Harmony 880 universal remote. First of all, if you paid $249 for it you got took. If you search on-line you can often find it in the $150-175 range and I've even seen it for $129 occasionally.
You set up the remote using Harmony's web based software and, as someone else has noted it's awful, reminding one of most poorly programed MS software. What I dislike most about it is it's not intuitive, you kind of have to blunder your way through it the first few times. While I'm not very good at setting up things, I can read and understand instructions and it took me several tries before I got the software to work in an understandable manner. But once that happened, I was home free and have my remote programed to operate the Comcast PVR, LD player, DVD, receiver and plasma, giving me total one remote control, which even my totally clueless Luddite wife can use.
I think the great strength of the Harmony 880 is the activity menu which you set up on-line. For example if I want to watch the plasma, the remote turns on the PVR, plasma and receiver, and sets the plasma and receiver to the correct inputs.
The remote also has a device menu where you can set up specific feature of your device that don't appear in the activity menu. An example of this is power on/power off.
I will admit, though, that the first time I tried to set it up it was very frustrating, but once set up it's a dream to use.
A couple of random thoughts.
Isn't Apple moving towards bluetooth? Not good news for a universal remote.
I have and am very happy with a Harmony 880 universal remote. First of all, if you paid $249 for it you got took. If you search on-line you can often find it in the $150-175 range and I've even seen it for $129 occasionally.
You set up the remote using Harmony's web based software and, as someone else has noted it's awful, reminding one of most poorly programed MS software. What I dislike most about it is it's not intuitive, you kind of have to blunder your way through it the first few times. While I'm not very good at setting up things, I can read and understand instructions and it took me several tries before I got the software to work in an understandable manner. But once that happened, I was home free and have my remote programed to operate the Comcast PVR, LD player, DVD, receiver and plasma, giving me total one remote control, which even my totally clueless Luddite wife can use.
I think the great strength of the Harmony 880 is the activity menu which you set up on-line. For example if I want to watch the plasma, the remote turns on the PVR, plasma and receiver, and sets the plasma and receiver to the correct inputs.
The remote also has a device menu where you can set up specific feature of your device that don't appear in the activity menu. An example of this is power on/power off.
I will admit, though, that the first time I tried to set it up it was very frustrating, but once set up it's a dream to use.
OK, but which strikes you as the more user friendly set-up, this:
or this:
Just imagine the bottom row of icons being plasma, DVR, DVD, Receiver and LD.
Then whatever macros you want in the group up top ("watch DVD with surround", "listen to radio", etc.)
Then imagine that the whole "programming" process is bone simple, with an online graphic interface for specifying your interconnects (maybe something akin to OmniGraffle).
For simple device control just download the particiular widget, right on the remote.
How did you find the latest version if the official site doesn't point to it?
Versiontracker linked to it.
Versiontracker still links to that version but when you start the app it will update itself.
OK, but which strikes you as the more user friendly set-up, this:
or this:
Just imagine the bottom row of icons being plasma, DVR, DVD, Receiver and LD.
Then whatever macros you want in the group up top ("watch DVD with surround", "listen to radio", etc.)
Then imagine that the whole "programming" process is bone simple, with an online graphic interface for specifying your interconnects (maybe something akin to OmniGraffle).
For simple device control just download the particiular widget, right on the remote.
I'm not arguing and while we're dreaming let's also include voice recognition commands.
The point I was trying to make is that the Harmony 880 is here NOW and even with a confusing setup procedure it actually works. Who knows when or even if Apple will come out with a universal remote.
I'm not arguing and while we're dreaming let's also include voice recognition commands.
The point I was trying to make is that the Harmony 880 is here NOW and even with a confusing setup procedure it actually works. Who knows when or even if Apple will come out with a universal remote.
True enough, what I'm getting at is that the current remote scene is very much like the current cell phone scene: while there are models available that are better at dealing with interface clutter and exposing functionality, none of them are really very good, assuming your definition of "good" is something like "how I would like my remote to work if I had never seen a remote."
This is exactly the kind of environment into which Apple can make major inroads, which makes an Apple remote at least more likely, if not "I expect to see it in the next three months" likely.
But it has to have crossed the minds of the people at Apple, it's just too obvious.
If, knowing how Apple prices things, the price will probably be in the $399 - $499 range. If it would work with both IR and bluetooth the people over on AVSform would lap it up.
You think? I can't quite see Apple pricing something like a remote, with maybe 20% of the functionality of the iPhone, within hailing distance of the iPhone itself. I think even Apple knows that a $500 remote would be a tough sell, no matter how good a job it did.
I would guess something like $200-$250, which would put it in the mainstream of sophisticated programable remotes. Bearing in mind here that some of the fiercer, more expensive remotes on the market are part of whole house systems, which I don't think Apple would do.
Recently, remote controllers have begun to be utilized with computers. These remote controllers can mimic keyboard or mouse events for the computers. One solution uses an infrared receiver device that connects to a Universal Serial Bus (USB) port of a computer via a USB cable, and an infrared remote controller that uses infrared transmissions that can be received by the infrared receiver device and supplied to the computer. For example, such a remote controller allows a user to control multimedia applications on the computer. This approach is an aftermarket solution to provide remote control capabilities to existing computers. Another solution connects a receiver device to an Airport Express.RTM. unit that wirelessly transmits to a corresponding wireless transceiver within the computer, such as a Macintosh computer from Apple Computer, Inc. Airport Express.RTM. is Apple Computer's mobile base station that features analog and digital audio outputs that can be connected to a home stereo, and enables users to wirelessly stream music from iTunes.RTM. media management program on their computer to any room in the house. Still another solution uses Bluetooth compatible handheld devices, such as a mobile phone, to serve as a remote controller for a Macintosh computer. This solution requires installation of software on the mobile phone as well as the computer. Once the software is installed, the mobile phone can be used to control popular programs such as iTunes.RTM. media management program from Apple Computer, Inc. For example, in controlling iTunes.RTM. media management program using this solution, the user can use the directional controls on the mobile phone to change listing volume, skip forward and backward, play/pause, etc.
Instead of 'programming' a remote like you do with the Harmony, imagine a device that 'talked' to all of your equipment and 'just worked'. Apple appears to be preparing a new standard for device communications whereby a single, AppleTV like device and interface could display, manage, and control every device in your home theater. Presumably, this would require some sort of 'dongle', IR blaster, or (More likely) entirely new DVD players etc. with built in 802.11 communications.
Maybe I'm just old fashion but I don't like the Swiss Army knife approach. I want a camera that's a camera, a phone that's a phone and a universal remote that's a universal remote, not some mishmash of technologies.
I agree generally, but imagine if you already have an iPhone, and it's just a software download to give it the remote functionality. I'd rather do that than pay x hundred dollars for each.