Pentium M-based Intel chip at heart of Apple TV

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  • Reply 81 of 144
    solsunsolsun Posts: 763member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post


    Seriously, WHY is there a Hard Drive in this thing? It makes NO SENSE! If it can stream at 300Mb/s, that should be plenty quick for any 802.11n-equipped computer. So assuming that one's AppleTV gets its media from a "host computer" (which is in turn connected to the iTS), everything on the AppleTV would be a duplicate of content on the host computer -- a device which could just as well be streaming the data. Apple could have cut the price by almost $50 by not including the 40GB HD. Very unwise, if you ask me.



    Alternatively, they could've added another HD plus a slightly beefier processor and made the device, in effect, a 80GB, dual-turner DVR/media streamer (granted it would probably be a little thicker). Since DVRs are all the rage these days, Apple could see the DVR features available today and raise media streaming... all for a very low price of $400, flat.



    Perhaps this will be a future version of the device, and Apple might just be testing the waters, but if the device fails, primarily because it doesn't include DVR capabilities, the AppleTV will not have a second chance. Apple needs to get the product right the first time, not the second time. Same goes for all their computers/devices, practically... 2nd gen is always better. I know I'll receive some flak for saying this, but that's why I'm waiting for the 2nd gen iPhone... that and I don't have money for it now . A big wedding is coming up!



    -Clive



    The hard drive is so that Apple TV can be used if the host computer is turned off. A DVR in a Apple device is unlikely since Apple's is in the business of selling content via the iTunes store.. A DVR would essentially record for free the same content that Apple wants you too BUY.
  • Reply 82 of 144
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post


    Alternatively, they could've added another HD plus a slightly beefier processor and made the device, in effect, a 80GB, dual-turner DVR/media streamer (granted it would probably be a little thicker). Since DVRs are all the rage these days, Apple could see the DVR features available today and raise media streaming... all for a very low price of $400, flat.



    Besides the obvious reason stated by solsun, how do you figure a dual tuner DVR and a larger HDD would cost only $400. Other problems with your statment:[list][*]80GB HDD for a DVR?[*]The load required to compress streamed H.264 wireless media, record compress in H.264 from two tuners, wjile outputing a 3rd source to an HDTV requires more than a slightly beefier CPU. There
  • Reply 83 of 144
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solsun View Post


    To further elaborate on my above post... If Apple did it right, extra peripherals would not be needed... Purchases through Apple tv could be done with the simple Apple remote.. A menu based navigation with categories like "new releases," "dramas," "comedies" etc. etc... move up and down through the categories, press the menu button to watch the trailer, and press menu again to purchase and begin downloading.. The hardware is already capable of this, a software interface to the iTunes store is all that's needed.



    APpleTV doesn't even need to do the work. It can access, purchase and download this media from the synced computer's iTunes. I think this is what is going to happen as I cant imagine any other reason why one and only one computer can be tethered to the appliance.
  • Reply 84 of 144
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by VTrain View Post


    As Kaspar stated earlier,



    "On its website Apple similarly says Apple TV supports: "Enhanced-definition or high-definition widescreen TVs capable of 1080i 60/50Hz, 720p 60/50Hz, 576p 50Hz (PAL format), or 480p 60Hz."



    Who really cares. The video content is not as good as DVD quality, nor is it anywhere near what the coming standard of Blu Ray, HD-DVD is... So what is this device really good for again? Certainly not for the videophiles out there.



    Can you say... Laser Disc anyone?
  • Reply 85 of 144
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solsun View Post


    I disagree, I don't think I've missed the point massively.. In fact, I think Apple missed the mark as far as what consumers need/want to make this a real killer living room product.



    I agree that a Mac mini may be overkill for the living room, but a mini is currently the only way to be able to do what I would want in a living room device.. Apple Tv is already a computer, so all Apple had to do was create a way for it to interface with the iTunes store for Movies and Tv show purchases on demand... They could have done it so it would be all menu driven (without the need for a keyboard,) so that consumers could watch movie previews and be able to immediately purchase and watch all from their couch.



    Microsoft managed to make an on demand movie service with the Xbox 360 which offers both purchase and rental options as well as full HD resolution... Apple could have (and should have) done it better.



    I believe you are talking about consumers in general and then you move into "what you would want". Consumers want simplicity and the best practical way to engineer the iTS without the use of a physical keyboard into Apple TV is to make it like an iPod. Imagine an iPod with thousands upon thousands of different artists. And face it, that's what you would have to do to be able to access every song on the iTS. Either that or have some god awful on screen keyboard thing that you scroll across to type in letters.



    Why would Apple bother spending all that money and time to achieve a couple of new sales of songs and movies when they don't even make money from them?



    The whole approach of iTunes is that it does everything for you. The idea of season pass is that it downloads every new version, and by definition it will sync it to apple TV straight away. While the MS thing is a good price, how much do the geeks who use XBox 360 A.) Spend on XBox Live B.)Spend on the super-dooper XBox 360 that you need in order to have a large enough hard drive in order to store all these HD videos and C.) Spend on their 50 Mbit/s ultra geek connection to actually download all this gumpf.



    Microsoft is the prime example of how throwing money at a problem may get you results, but not the best results. I can imagine in typical Microsoft style, the XBox Live store will be confusing in terms of prices (points?? is that like monopoly money?) and confusing in terms of interface.



    Microsoft is aiming at a vastly different market I'm afraid so your argument there is void. As for iTunes, just go to your computer, click on what you want, download it, and then press sync to Apple TV, done.... Do you really want years of Apple software engineering for something that would take you 5 seconds more otherwise, or maybe 5 minutes pre-planning? God it's this kind of lazy attitude that is causing mass obesity in this world.
  • Reply 86 of 144
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solsun View Post


    The hard drive is so that Apple TV can be used if the host computer is turned off. A DVR in a Apple device is unlikely since Apple's is in the business of selling content via the iTunes store.. A DVR would essentially record for free the same content that Apple wants you too BUY.



    Who turns off their computer?



    Your iTS comment makes sense in the present, however, the iTS is not the future of digital content, at least not yet. *Maybe* in the long-term future, you will be able to select what shows you want to watch and they will be "otomatically" d/l-ed from the iTS to your TV, but let's have a reality check. So much of the world today has cable or sattelite. DVR is an option for them, but expensive. If Apple could release a device that appeals to both camps, it'll slowly pull more people in. Eventually, once iTS becomes a viable alternative to cable, people will start to switch. Until then, DVR will be a useful tool.



    -Clive
  • Reply 87 of 144
    Odd. With the older Dothan based core, they're missing out on the SSE3 and Media boost or whatever Intel calls it.



    Interestingly enough, this seems like it could be a neat little computer. How fast will hackers make this usable as one?
  • Reply 88 of 144
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,946member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BEatMaKeR View Post


    Who really cares. The video content is not as good as DVD quality, nor is it anywhere near what the coming standard of Blu Ray, HD-DVD is... So what is this device really good for again? Certainly not for the videophiles out there.



    Didn't they say they will be offering 720p video? They'd have to make a blunder to make their 720p worse than DVD.
  • Reply 89 of 144
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Besides the obvious reason stated by solsun, how do you figure a dual tuner DVR and a larger HDD would cost only $400. Other problems with your statment:[list][*]80GB HDD for a DVR?[*]The load required to compress streamed H.264 wireless media, record compress in H.264 from two tuners, wjile outputing a 3rd source to an HDTV requires more than a slightly beefier CPU. There



    The premium series 2 TiVo model is current $169 at TiVo.com. It supports 180-hrs and has a dual-turner. Plus you can transfer the content to your PC to burn it. Granted that you have to pay for the plan as well, that sort of device will be more than capable for 95% of those who own (or desire to own) a TiVo.



    Regardless of what hardware would be required to equip the AppleTV, I am confident that many people would be willing to pay quite a bit for a device that would unite media purchased from the iTS and media received through cable/sattelite.



    -Clive
  • Reply 90 of 144
    solsunsolsun Posts: 763member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nutrix View Post


    I believe you are talking about consumers in general and then you move into "what you would want". Consumers want simplicity and the best practical way to engineer the iTS without the use of a physical keyboard into Apple TV is to make it like an iPod. Imagine an iPod with thousands upon thousands of different artists. And face it, that's what you would have to do to be able to access every song on the iTS. Either that or have some god awful on screen keyboard thing that you scroll across to type in letters.



    Why would Apple bother spending all that money and time to achieve a couple of new sales of songs and movies when they don't even make money from them?



    The whole approach of iTunes is that it does everything for you. The idea of season pass is that it downloads every new version, and by definition it will sync it to apple TV straight away. While the MS thing is a good price, how much do the geeks who use XBox 360 A.) Spend on XBox Live B.)Spend on the super-dooper XBox 360 that you need in order to have a large enough hard drive in order to store all these HD videos and C.) Spend on their 50 Mbit/s ultra geek connection to actually download all this gumpf.



    Microsoft is the prime example of how throwing money at a problem may get you results, but not the best results. I can imagine in typical Microsoft style, the XBox Live store will be confusing in terms of prices (points?? is that like monopoly money?) and confusing in terms of interface.



    Microsoft is aiming at a vastly different market I'm afraid so your argument there is void. As for iTunes, just go to your computer, click on what you want, download it, and then press sync to Apple TV, done.... Do you really want years of Apple software engineering for something that would take you 5 seconds more otherwise, or maybe 5 minutes pre-planning? God it's this kind of lazy attitude that is causing mass obesity in this world.





    Um yes, I did say consumers, and in case you haven't noticed,the general consensus is that most people are dissappointed and wanted/expected more from Apple tv (read the forums, check the Apple discussions.) I then explained what I want in a device because I can't speak for everyone else.. Apple is about simplicity. For a living room device, being able to browse and purchase from your couch is as simple as it gets.. Apple could have done this using the same or a similar navigation system as they currently have in place. Streaming is great. Content on demand with a rental option for movies is the "killer" living room device. (I think) most people would appreciate this and it could be done while retaining Apple simplicity. "Browse, Buy, Sync, and stream all from your couch." Having to interface with your computer is an unneccessary step, with Apple tv, you should be able to do it all from your tv.
  • Reply 91 of 144
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,946member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post


    Who turns off their computer?



    I do. Even if you don't think it is much, it's still a waste of power to leave them on all the time. Even sleep mode is a lot better than just leaving it on, and all it takes is a mouse click and a second to get back to normal.
  • Reply 92 of 144
    I'm really curious about that. Either I'm missing the point, or there is too much hype for something so unnecessary. Here's a few thoughts and please tell me where I'm right and where I'm wrong.



    : : a Mac mini can do everything an appleTV does, and more (apart from the new Front Row app).

    : : even if you have a Mac mini in another room, all you need to carry along to your TV room is Mac mini, power brick and remote.

    : : Apple laptops can do the same and are even more portable than the Mac mini

    : : appleTV is supposed to reduce the fuss with cables etc, but you still need another device for DVD playback on your TV.
  • Reply 93 of 144
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post


    Alternatively, they could've added another HD plus a slightly beefier processor and made the device, in effect, a 80GB, dual-turner DVR/media streamer (granted it would probably be a little thicker). Since DVRs are all the rage these days, Apple could see the DVR features available today and raise media streaming... all for a very low price of $400, flat.



    DVRs are a commodity item. $10/month from comcast gets you a HD capable DVR.



    Without cablecard you miss out on all the interactive pieces of HD (HD VOD, PPV, etc). The cheapest TiVO's series 3 is still more expensive.



    The cheapest Series 2 is only $69. Of course there's that monthly service fee.



    It is doubtful that Apple could make a dual tuner DVR Series 3 competitor for $400...especially now that TiVO won its case and Apple would have to pay royalties. Nor would aTV compete with a $70 TiVO. So why bother? Let Miglia do it.



    Vinea
  • Reply 94 of 144
    I agree with those who are saying a mini is the better option, but I'll go one better and suggest a TOTAL media setup for the home, centered around a mini. Please let me know if you think this is so crazy:



    1 mini in the living room, with a bunch of nice drives + backup for adequate storage (let's say 200GB+). Front Row + remote for all your media/browsing needs.



    Set this mini to store 1 "Master" iTunes library - that is, all music, all purchased movies, all tv shows (throw in a bit torrent config while you're there).



    Everyone in the house syncs their iPods to this machine.



    All other machines in the house can share the Master iTunes library from the mini via iTunes Sharing/Front Row Sharing (plus have their own private/local media if they want).



    Benefits:

    ? 1 Master Library means everyone in the house doesn't need to purchase the same song/movie/etc. multiple times if they want it on their iPod

    ? No more 100GB of media clogging the boot drive on your personal computer

    ? centralized backup (connect 2 drives to mini, use scheduled mirroring)

    ? bit torrent client always running (use your router to throttle bandwidth as needed)

    ? divx/avi playback



    Given that the AppleTV has a Pentium M and you can pick up a Core Solo mini now for roughly the same price... am I missing anything here?



    If you want to get really fancy, install OSX Server on the mini and have Mobile Home accounts for everyone on the network (Dad's using the iMac again, no problem, open the MacBook and check your mail). [Of course, OSX Server software increases the setup cost]
  • Reply 95 of 144
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ken(gr) View Post


    I'm really curious about that. Either I'm missing the point, or there is too much hype for something so unnecessary. Here's a few thoughts and please tell me where I'm right and where I'm wrong.



    : : a Mac mini can do everything an appleTV does, and more (apart from the new Front Row app).



    Perhaps. There is no HDMI support on the Mini although you can do DVI to HDMI for video. Oddly there is the rumor that Apple TV doesn't do HDCP which would be a mistake if the studios limit HD sales on iTunes. On the other hand they may not feel 720p in the wild is all that big a threat...especially since they haven't enabled ICT anyway.



    Quote:

    : : appleTV is supposed to reduce the fuss with cables etc, but you still need another device for DVD playback on your TV.



    Presumably the intent is to have iTunes hold your video library as it does your audio library. No DVD player required on the aTV any more than a CD player is require on the iPod.



    Eh...with the UWB wireless HDMI products at CES there's a 50-50 shot that the next HT projector I buy might have that built in which reduces my need for aTV. Guess I was wrong about that.



    Vinea
  • Reply 96 of 144
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post


    Presumably the intent is to have iTunes hold your video library as it does your audio library. No DVD player required on the aTV any more than a CD player is require on the iPod.



    Thank you for your answers. As for the iPod/CD, aTV/DVD relation, I cannot agree with that.



    It's fast and easy to rip an entire CD, and it eats up 50-100MB of your hard disk space. And you do need as many of your CDs ripped in order to create playlists etc.



    The situation with DVDs is a lot different. They eat up a lot of disk space, they are hard to rip (illegal too?), and there are DVDs that you rent, too.
  • Reply 97 of 144
    drowdrow Posts: 121member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacSuperiority View Post


    Too bad there not passing the savings on to the consumer. This box probably costs them $150 max.



    can i please tell you what the components cost of a mouse is? pleeeeease? that should make your head explode.



    exploding heads are fun.
  • Reply 98 of 144
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by smax View Post


    How long until someone installs inux on one...?



    It would be a cheap box to experiment on...



    I'm waiting on this too. My estimate is that by late february, we'll wee a post on linuxdevices.com
  • Reply 99 of 144
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,946member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post


    I'm waiting on this too. My estimate is that by late february, we'll wee a post on linuxdevices.com



    Maybe for a screen shot of the kernel booting. Even with the rapid development & experimentation on the Linux platform, it takes longer than that to get it to do something useful other than maybe routing packets.
  • Reply 100 of 144
    sjksjk Posts: 603member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Texas Flood View Post


    You store the content on the Apple TV so that your computer doesn't need to be running to watch or listen to the content.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dukemeiser View Post


    If you shut your computer down, you could still play it off Apple TV after you sync it.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solsun View Post


    The hard drive is so that Apple TV can be used if the host computer is turned off.



    But you might need internet connectivity. The original article says:



    Users can sync their entire iTunes libraries to the drive but will need an internet connection when attempting to play back licensed content purchased from the iTunes Store. (emphasis added)



    If true, that means Apple TV can't be used for "offline" playback of FairPlay content? Ouch.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mikef View Post


    According to the Apple posted specs, no, your 480i capable sets are not compatible with the AppleTV. Maybe it's an oversight on the spec sheet and the AppleTV will output 480i, but that's not what it currently says/does.



    That's my understanding, too. Looks like any TV that won't support a progressive scan DVD player using non-interlaced output (480p) also won't support Apple TV.



    Quote:

    Since I'm using old 480i technology at home, the AppleTV is no good for me either



    Same here.



    The manual for my not that old JVC AV-27F704 says:



    • Progressive DVD player (players with an output scan of 31.5 KHz) will not work properly with this television. Set your DVD player's output to "interlaced" or non-progressive mode.



    That hasn't been an issue since my much older Pioneer DV-C503 DVD changer doesn't have progress output.
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