Core Image's GPU acceleration does share Quartz 2D Extreme's requirement for Shader 2.0 support however, and Adobe is using it, but exactly how much I don't know.
Adobe isn't using it: they removed GPU acceleration from the CS3 beta. Maybe in CS4.
in the rare instance I defend Onlooker ... I do believe he was talking about using the same card from mac to windows. IE a x1900xt gets better performance in Maya in windows than os X on the same machine. Though I do have a feeling this will change or level out with Aero / Vista.
Quote:
I think (hope to god) we will have major graphics drivers for the next revision. Probably drivers for SLI so users can use cards with powerful GPU's like the GeForce 7950 GX2's. The biggest problem with graphics on a Mac right now is switchers, and their friends see that the Mac is somewhat silly to switch to because they can have better graphics cards on Mac using the competing OS in boot-camp. If they were originally just planning on playing windows games in boot-camp, that same gaming graphics card with the power-horse GPU{s) is also going to perform better in photoshop under windows with functioning drivers,
This was the original context. You can certainly run more cards on Windows via Bootcamp than you can in OSX natively. But hey, if I'm wrong and he meant on the 1900XT that's cool and I stand corrected.
Whether OSX sucks in terms of framerate vs Windows is a different debate. One I wont venture into.
Sheesh - if it's true, the 20th is outside my window. Can't wait that long.
I may as well jump in now - I'll give it a couple of days to see if the story is confirmed.
beh - not the first time I've been caught.
I'm used to it !
I'm pretty skeptical about that release date for leopard. Unless apple is a few steps ahead of the developer seeds with their own internal seeds at all times, i don't think they can hit that date. I don't know, maybe they can. I've seen them do it in the past. But as it is Leopard is a tad shaky.
If 2/20/07 (28 days - 4 weeks - 1 month) is all i have to wait for a mac pro. I can do it!
I'm pretty skeptical about that release date for leopard. Unless apple is a few steps ahead of the developer seeds with their own internal seeds at all times, i don't think they can hit that date. I don't know, maybe they can. I've seen them do it in the past. But as it is Leopard is a tad shaky.
If 2/20/07 (28 days - 4 weeks - 1 month) is all i have to wait for a mac pro. I can do it!
I got on the list for the Leopard Tech Talk that is going to be given this Friday by Apple engineers. If it isn't NDA I will report back what I find. It's an all-day event and there is free breakfast and lunch. Hope they have the Krispy Kreme donuts....
----------------------------------
EVENT INFORMATION
----------------------------------
Mac OS X Leopard Tech Talk
Friday, January 26, 2007, Atlanta, GA
Registration Hours & Continental Breakfast: 8:00 AM - 9:00 AM
I got on the list for the Leopard Tech Talk that is going to be given this Friday by Apple engineers. If it isn't NDA I will report back what I find. It's an all-day event and there is free breakfast and lunch. Hope they have the Krispy Kreme donuts....
----------------------------------
EVENT INFORMATION
----------------------------------
Mac OS X Leopard Tech Talk
Friday, January 26, 2007, Atlanta, GA
Registration Hours & Continental Breakfast: 8:00 AM - 9:00 AM
Session Hours: 9:00 AM - 6:00 PM
Complimentary Lunch: 11:45 AM - 12:30 PM
Wine and Cheese Reception: 6:00 PM - 8:00 PM
I was at the 2nd Leopard Tech Talk in Portland. First off... no krispy kreme donuts were there =P. They had sacked lunches that were actually pretty decent for a free show. And of course had snacks between sessions. It was like a mini WWDC. And the guys there are SO HELPFUL. I forgot the guy's name that is head of the program that basically leads it. But he is a really really nice guy. He wants to know what projects you're working on, and wants to help you in any way further the technology of the program by using os x. He really opened my eyes on a few things. If you get a chance talk to this guy. All of them are super smart. The one that does the objective-c 2.0 and the XCode talks is really cool too!
Second off, it does void your Apple Developer Connection NDA . If it didn't, I'd say what I saw in portland.
Because Mac Pro sales are still only so-so and to put it politely buying a more expensive Mac Pro for a gaming rig over a cheaper Conroe machine is "questionable". Except for those who are using it primarily for content creation on OSX (or Windows for whom they can transition to OSX for work) and plays games on the side this is a non-starter.
In other words the number of switchers that would be influenced with better graphics than a X1900 for gaming on a Xeon based machine approaches zero. Mmm...look at all those folks buying Dell Precision 490s and 690s as gaming rigs...they'll all switch to the Mac Pro if only you could get 2x 8800GTX SLI on the Mac Pro (and amusingly get crappy FPS in WoW due to buggy drivers).
My Macs run Bootcamp 75% of the time because I'm a .NET/Managed DX9 dev so I must be an Mac fanatic (actually Linux "unliker"...I don't hate Linux but I do prefer to do Apache/MySql/PHP/etc hacking on OSX than Linux because of the rest of the OS...I guess I'm a OAMP rather than LAMP developer). But there's no way in heck I'm buying a Mac Pro primarily for gaming. I don't care what graphics cards are available.
For work, the X1900 and FX4500 may not be the most uber cards but typically they are good enough.
Vinea
You are a rant ready to happen every time.
I don't know where you get off insinuating that I am saying people are buying Mac's for gaming, and any conversation having to do with SLI, better graphics, and more video cards always ends up being about gamers in the end. Sometimes it is absolutely pointless trying to talk to you.
I'm pretty skeptical about that release date for leopard. Unless apple is a few steps ahead of the developer seeds with their own internal seeds at all times, i don't think they can hit that date. I don't know, maybe they can. I've seen them do it in the past. But as it is Leopard is a tad shaky.
If 2/20/07 (28 days - 4 weeks - 1 month) is all i have to wait for a mac pro. I can do it!
I'm pretty skeptical about that release date for leopard. Unless apple is a few steps ahead of the developer seeds with their own internal seeds at all times, i don't think they can hit that date. I don't know, maybe they can. I've seen them do it in the past. But as it is Leopard is a tad shaky.
If 2/20/07 (28 days - 4 weeks - 1 month) is all i have to wait for a mac pro. I can do it!
It's always like that though. The seeds don't have everything thats in the final, only what Apple needs developers to be testing, and there is also the last 4 seeds that come about a week apart at the end that still seem sketchy, but then suddenly you see the final and it's loaded with stuff that you never even new about.
I was at the 2nd Leopard Tech Talk in Portland. First off... no krispy kreme donuts were there =P. They had sacked lunches that were actually pretty decent for a free show. And of course had snacks between sessions. It was like a mini WWDC. And the guys there are SO HELPFUL. I forgot the guy's name that is head of the program that basically leads it. But he is a really really nice guy. He wants to know what projects you're working on, and wants to help you in any way further the technology of the program by using os x. He really opened my eyes on a few things. If you get a chance talk to this guy. All of them are super smart. The one that does the objective-c 2.0 and the XCode talks is really cool too!
Second off, it does void your Apple Developer Connection NDA . If it didn't, I'd say what I saw in portland.
Well foo...I'm invited to a Vista launch thingy but not to a leopard talk.
I don't know where you get off insinuating that I am saying people are buying Mac's for gaming, and any conversation having to do with SLI, better graphics, and more video cards always ends up being about gamers in the end. Sometimes it is absolutely pointless trying to talk to you.
Um...lets look at this thread...the one that mentions windows gaming is...you. Right before you incorrectly stated that they would work better for Photoshop.
Are you still expecting me to respond to what you think via my vast telepathic powers versus what you actually write?
You have yet to explain what OTHER purpose SLI and better cards than the FX4500 has for even most pro DCC users. There are folks working with huge textures that would truely benefit from the 1GB FX 5500 and others perhaps the FX4500X2 and I expect those cards to show up eventually (the 5500 anyway). There might be a few rare applications that would require SLI 8800's over the FX4500 like high end simulation displays.
But please. The FX4500 would fit the bill for the majority of DCC customers (except maybe Maya where the FireGL dominates but hey, you didn't mention them). Pricey but whatever and older but competitive enough still for the category. The X1900XT isn't THAT horrid a card.
And what pro is going to switch platforms simply for one step/rev of a graphics card lineup if the software performance is different (or missing) anyways? So which switchers are you going after?
If its "pointless" talking to me at least I'll address the topic and even admit defeat rather than make some snide insult and scurry away when my "technical" arguments fall over.
Oh and if you're going to get all snotty Mr. "best graphics options available to them at all times" using the "right tools for the right job" what graphics card do you have in your Alienware and what apps do you run on it? I dunno why you'd complain about the lack of SLI if you're running a FireGL rather than complain about the lack of a FireGL card...especially since the Xeon 5150s beat the Opteron 2200s in Maya benchmarks...
Oh and if you're going to get all snotty Mr. "best graphics options available to them at all times" using the "right tools for the right job" what graphics card do you have in your Alienware and what apps do you run on it? I dunno why you'd complain about the lack of SLI if you're running a FireGL rather than complain about the lack of a FireGL card...especially since the Xeon 5150s beat the Opteron 2200s in Maya benchmarks...
Vinea
Viena. I don't have any idea why you continuously call me things in various threads like calling me snotty (or are you trying to say snooty), but I have had enough arguing with you alright. You relentlessly follow anything I say with an incorrect breakdown of what was said, and I'm getting tired of re-explaining every word I've written. It gets tiresome, and I have better things to do with my time.
I don't care if my opteron is slower, It's older. but it is SLI capable. It's comforting to now that all I need is another QFX4500, an SLI bridge and I'm good to go. Regardless. I am still shopping for a new computer, but weather or not it's another PowerMac...Mac Pro will be known after they update.
Viena. I don't have any idea why you continuously call me things in various threads like calling me snotty (or are you trying to say snooty), but I have had enough arguing with you alright.
I belive this started when you jumped on my case (to me out of the blue) because you were annoyed with me for whatever reason that I don't recall and I doubt you do either. Call you things? Please. I call you ON things.
To which you respond in a ad hominem way (like the internet chatter thing, the rant thing and other comments you've made in this thread about me rather than the topic) so I get sarcastic and sharper in response.
Note that snotty is the first thing I've said about YOU as opposed to your statements. And evidently both snotty and snooty are alternative spellings for the same thing which given the context of "needing the most performance" etc etc seems to fit. But if it makes you feel better I'll retract the snotty comment.
I've noticed that not once have you done the courtesy of retracting any of the nasty things you say about me. So while you may be "tired" of me I'm annoyed enough with you to not really care all that much about making you happy even if it annoys Emig to whom I promised to play nice.
Quote:
You relentlessly follow anything I say with an incorrect breakdown of what was said, and I'm getting tired of re-explaining every word I've written. It gets tiresome, and I have better things to do with my time.
Oh come on. Relentless perhaps. Incorrect breakdown? You mentioned Photoshop and all the other things I called you on. Re-explaining isn't required when what you write is clear and clearly incorrect.
Opinions I tend to be silent on. They are neither right or wrong. The underlying reasons WHY you have that opinion is what is debatable.
Quote:
I don't care if my opteron is slower, It's older. but it is SLI capable. It's comforting to now that all I need is another QFX4500, an SLI bridge and I'm good to go. Regardless. I am still shopping for a new computer, but weather or not it's another PowerMac...Mac Pro will be known after they update.
Well that's fine. However that's doesn't say much for folks that need the best of the best graphics to be a pro user nor the absolute need for the Mac Pro to have every card available.
It would certainly be nice but required? Meh. Nor have you acknowledged this isn't a simple driver fix but that card makers actually have to make EFI compatible cards.
The internet chatter question was a question. Hence the question mark. Sarcasm unless obvious, (which it wasn't meant to be) seems hard to detect because usually with such intent there is a tone, or smirk in which I have neither.
The internet chatter question was a question. Hence the question mark. Sarcasm unless obvious, (which it wasn't meant to be) seems hard to detect because usually with such intent there is a tone, or smirk in which I have neither.
Then I stand corrected and apologize for being prickly. However, with you, I have do have cause from prior threads.
Yeah. It would be terrible if I just had to start deleting those long-winded diatribes against each other. Which is what I will do if they continue. The flag is set.
Comments
Sheesh - if it's true, the 20th is outside my window. Can't wait that long.
I may as well jump in now - I'll give it a couple of days to see if the story is confirmed.
beh - not the first time I've been caught.
I'm used to it !
Core Image's GPU acceleration does share Quartz 2D Extreme's requirement for Shader 2.0 support however, and Adobe is using it, but exactly how much I don't know.
Adobe isn't using it: they removed GPU acceleration from the CS3 beta. Maybe in CS4.
in the rare instance I defend Onlooker
I think (hope to god) we will have major graphics drivers for the next revision. Probably drivers for SLI so users can use cards with powerful GPU's like the GeForce 7950 GX2's. The biggest problem with graphics on a Mac right now is switchers, and their friends see that the Mac is somewhat silly to switch to because they can have better graphics cards on Mac using the competing OS in boot-camp. If they were originally just planning on playing windows games in boot-camp, that same gaming graphics card with the power-horse GPU{s) is also going to perform better in photoshop under windows with functioning drivers,
This was the original context. You can certainly run more cards on Windows via Bootcamp than you can in OSX natively. But hey, if I'm wrong and he meant on the 1900XT that's cool and I stand corrected.
Whether OSX sucks in terms of framerate vs Windows is a different debate. One I wont venture into.
Vinea
uhhh - just saw this http://applerecon.com/2007/01/23/app...n-february-20/ across on AN.
Sheesh - if it's true, the 20th is outside my window. Can't wait that long.
I may as well jump in now - I'll give it a couple of days to see if the story is confirmed.
beh - not the first time I've been caught.
I'm used to it !
I'm pretty skeptical about that release date for leopard. Unless apple is a few steps ahead of the developer seeds with their own internal seeds at all times, i don't think they can hit that date. I don't know, maybe they can. I've seen them do it in the past. But as it is Leopard is a tad shaky.
If 2/20/07 (28 days - 4 weeks - 1 month) is all i have to wait for a mac pro. I can do it!
I'm pretty skeptical about that release date for leopard. Unless apple is a few steps ahead of the developer seeds with their own internal seeds at all times, i don't think they can hit that date. I don't know, maybe they can. I've seen them do it in the past. But as it is Leopard is a tad shaky.
If 2/20/07 (28 days - 4 weeks - 1 month) is all i have to wait for a mac pro. I can do it!
I got on the list for the Leopard Tech Talk that is going to be given this Friday by Apple engineers. If it isn't NDA I will report back what I find. It's an all-day event and there is free breakfast and lunch. Hope they have the Krispy Kreme donuts....
----------------------------------
EVENT INFORMATION
----------------------------------
Mac OS X Leopard Tech Talk
Friday, January 26, 2007, Atlanta, GA
Registration Hours & Continental Breakfast: 8:00 AM - 9:00 AM
Session Hours: 9:00 AM - 6:00 PM
Complimentary Lunch: 11:45 AM - 12:30 PM
Wine and Cheese Reception: 6:00 PM - 8:00 PM
NDA - be damned !
Do your duty for the community and report err, speculatively ...
I got on the list for the Leopard Tech Talk that is going to be given this Friday by Apple engineers. If it isn't NDA I will report back what I find. It's an all-day event and there is free breakfast and lunch. Hope they have the Krispy Kreme donuts....
----------------------------------
EVENT INFORMATION
----------------------------------
Mac OS X Leopard Tech Talk
Friday, January 26, 2007, Atlanta, GA
Registration Hours & Continental Breakfast: 8:00 AM - 9:00 AM
Session Hours: 9:00 AM - 6:00 PM
Complimentary Lunch: 11:45 AM - 12:30 PM
Wine and Cheese Reception: 6:00 PM - 8:00 PM
I was at the 2nd Leopard Tech Talk in Portland. First off... no krispy kreme donuts were there =P. They had sacked lunches that were actually pretty decent for a free show. And of course had snacks between sessions. It was like a mini WWDC. And the guys there are SO HELPFUL. I forgot the guy's name that is head of the program that basically leads it. But he is a really really nice guy. He wants to know what projects you're working on, and wants to help you in any way further the technology of the program by using os x. He really opened my eyes on a few things. If you get a chance talk to this guy. All of them are super smart. The one that does the objective-c 2.0 and the XCode talks is really cool too!
Second off, it does void your Apple Developer Connection NDA
Because Mac Pro sales are still only so-so and to put it politely buying a more expensive Mac Pro for a gaming rig over a cheaper Conroe machine is "questionable". Except for those who are using it primarily for content creation on OSX (or Windows for whom they can transition to OSX for work) and plays games on the side this is a non-starter.
In other words the number of switchers that would be influenced with better graphics than a X1900 for gaming on a Xeon based machine approaches zero. Mmm...look at all those folks buying Dell Precision 490s and 690s as gaming rigs...they'll all switch to the Mac Pro if only you could get 2x 8800GTX SLI on the Mac Pro (and amusingly get crappy FPS in WoW due to buggy drivers).
My Macs run Bootcamp 75% of the time because I'm a .NET/Managed DX9 dev so I must be an Mac fanatic (actually Linux "unliker"...I don't hate Linux but I do prefer to do Apache/MySql/PHP/etc hacking on OSX than Linux because of the rest of the OS...I guess I'm a OAMP rather than LAMP developer). But there's no way in heck I'm buying a Mac Pro primarily for gaming. I don't care what graphics cards are available.
For work, the X1900 and FX4500 may not be the most uber cards but typically they are good enough.
Vinea
You are a rant ready to happen every time.
I don't know where you get off insinuating that I am saying people are buying Mac's for gaming, and any conversation having to do with SLI, better graphics, and more video cards always ends up being about gamers in the end. Sometimes it is absolutely pointless trying to talk to you.
I'm pretty skeptical about that release date for leopard. Unless apple is a few steps ahead of the developer seeds with their own internal seeds at all times, i don't think they can hit that date. I don't know, maybe they can. I've seen them do it in the past. But as it is Leopard is a tad shaky.
If 2/20/07 (28 days - 4 weeks - 1 month) is all i have to wait for a mac pro. I can do it!
Ditto!
I'm pretty skeptical about that release date for leopard. Unless apple is a few steps ahead of the developer seeds with their own internal seeds at all times, i don't think they can hit that date. I don't know, maybe they can. I've seen them do it in the past. But as it is Leopard is a tad shaky.
If 2/20/07 (28 days - 4 weeks - 1 month) is all i have to wait for a mac pro. I can do it!
It's always like that though. The seeds don't have everything thats in the final, only what Apple needs developers to be testing, and there is also the last 4 seeds that come about a week apart at the end that still seem sketchy, but then suddenly you see the final and it's loaded with stuff that you never even new about.
I was at the 2nd Leopard Tech Talk in Portland. First off... no krispy kreme donuts were there =P. They had sacked lunches that were actually pretty decent for a free show. And of course had snacks between sessions. It was like a mini WWDC. And the guys there are SO HELPFUL. I forgot the guy's name that is head of the program that basically leads it. But he is a really really nice guy. He wants to know what projects you're working on, and wants to help you in any way further the technology of the program by using os x. He really opened my eyes on a few things. If you get a chance talk to this guy. All of them are super smart. The one that does the objective-c 2.0 and the XCode talks is really cool too!
Second off, it does void your Apple Developer Connection NDA
Well foo...I'm invited to a Vista launch thingy but not to a leopard talk.
Vinea
You are a rant ready to happen every time.
I don't know where you get off insinuating that I am saying people are buying Mac's for gaming, and any conversation having to do with SLI, better graphics, and more video cards always ends up being about gamers in the end. Sometimes it is absolutely pointless trying to talk to you.
Um...lets look at this thread...the one that mentions windows gaming is...you. Right before you incorrectly stated that they would work better for Photoshop.
Are you still expecting me to respond to what you think via my vast telepathic powers versus what you actually write?
You have yet to explain what OTHER purpose SLI and better cards than the FX4500 has for even most pro DCC users. There are folks working with huge textures that would truely benefit from the 1GB FX 5500 and others perhaps the FX4500X2 and I expect those cards to show up eventually (the 5500 anyway). There might be a few rare applications that would require SLI 8800's over the FX4500 like high end simulation displays.
But please. The FX4500 would fit the bill for the majority of DCC customers (except maybe Maya where the FireGL dominates but hey, you didn't mention them). Pricey but whatever and older but competitive enough still for the category. The X1900XT isn't THAT horrid a card.
And what pro is going to switch platforms simply for one step/rev of a graphics card lineup if the software performance is different (or missing) anyways? So which switchers are you going after?
If its "pointless" talking to me at least I'll address the topic and even admit defeat rather than make some snide insult and scurry away when my "technical" arguments fall over.
Vinea
Vinea
Oh and if you're going to get all snotty Mr. "best graphics options available to them at all times" using the "right tools for the right job" what graphics card do you have in your Alienware and what apps do you run on it? I dunno why you'd complain about the lack of SLI if you're running a FireGL rather than complain about the lack of a FireGL card...especially since the Xeon 5150s beat the Opteron 2200s in Maya benchmarks...
Vinea
Viena. I don't have any idea why you continuously call me things in various threads like calling me snotty (or are you trying to say snooty), but I have had enough arguing with you alright. You relentlessly follow anything I say with an incorrect breakdown of what was said, and I'm getting tired of re-explaining every word I've written. It gets tiresome, and I have better things to do with my time.
I don't care if my opteron is slower, It's older. but it is SLI capable. It's comforting to now that all I need is another QFX4500, an SLI bridge and I'm good to go. Regardless. I am still shopping for a new computer, but weather or not it's another PowerMac...Mac Pro will be known after they update.
Viena. I don't have any idea why you continuously call me things in various threads like calling me snotty (or are you trying to say snooty), but I have had enough arguing with you alright.
I belive this started when you jumped on my case (to me out of the blue) because you were annoyed with me for whatever reason that I don't recall and I doubt you do either. Call you things? Please. I call you ON things.
To which you respond in a ad hominem way (like the internet chatter thing, the rant thing and other comments you've made in this thread about me rather than the topic) so I get sarcastic and sharper in response.
Note that snotty is the first thing I've said about YOU as opposed to your statements. And evidently both snotty and snooty are alternative spellings for the same thing which given the context of "needing the most performance" etc etc seems to fit. But if it makes you feel better I'll retract the snotty comment.
I've noticed that not once have you done the courtesy of retracting any of the nasty things you say about me. So while you may be "tired" of me I'm annoyed enough with you to not really care all that much about making you happy even if it annoys Emig to whom I promised to play nice.
You relentlessly follow anything I say with an incorrect breakdown of what was said, and I'm getting tired of re-explaining every word I've written. It gets tiresome, and I have better things to do with my time.
Oh come on. Relentless perhaps. Incorrect breakdown? You mentioned Photoshop and all the other things I called you on. Re-explaining isn't required when what you write is clear and clearly incorrect.
Opinions I tend to be silent on. They are neither right or wrong. The underlying reasons WHY you have that opinion is what is debatable.
I don't care if my opteron is slower, It's older. but it is SLI capable. It's comforting to now that all I need is another QFX4500, an SLI bridge and I'm good to go. Regardless. I am still shopping for a new computer, but weather or not it's another PowerMac...Mac Pro will be known after they update.
Well that's fine. However that's doesn't say much for folks that need the best of the best graphics to be a pro user nor the absolute need for the Mac Pro to have every card available.
It would certainly be nice but required? Meh. Nor have you acknowledged this isn't a simple driver fix but that card makers actually have to make EFI compatible cards.
Vinea
The internet chatter question was a question. Hence the question mark. Sarcasm unless obvious, (which it wasn't meant to be) seems hard to detect because usually with such intent there is a tone, or smirk in which I have neither.
Then I stand corrected and apologize for being prickly. However, with you, I have do have cause from prior threads.
Vinea
Have a flame war - get it over and done with, whatever.
I like reading posts from both of you - this bickering, however does nothing.