I thought the Cingular deal WAS a two-year deal. Also, if Apple couldn't come to terms with Verizon, then it makes you wonder if there ever will be a CDMA version of the phone. All lot of people griped because Apple went with Cingular, but hey ... at least they tried. We'll see how good or bad Verizon's decision was over the next couple of years.
I never though it was for two years. People think that because the deal for the phone to the customer is for two years. There was never any reason why that had anyrthing to do with the deal between Apple and AT&T. Two years seemed to be too short.
It is interesting, though, that Apple went to Verison first. That cancels out a lot of the arguments people here have had about why Apple went the way they did.
If they went CDMA, I wonder what their worldwide plans could have neen?
No, there are quite a few. But, those are the largest.
I have Sprint, and while I can't speak tio how they are elsewhere, here in NYC, they are pretty good, network wise. For repair policies, feh!
But, once you pay for data service, which is quite speedy, and much cheaper than Verison's, you can use your phone as a computer modem, if it was made to do that, without having to pay extra.
I never though it was for two years. People think that because the deal for the phone to the customer is for two years. There was never any reason why that had anyrthing to do with the deal between Apple and AT&T. Two years seemed to be too short.
I agree 5 years is pretty long. iPhone will be locked to the fortunes or failure of AT&T.
iPhone customers will be locked to whatever restrictions AT&T negotiated with Apple. That will be 5 years with no chance of VOIP.
Depending on its success once iPhone is free from the exclusive deal Apple has far more room to negotiate its terms. Hopefully Apple negotiated a really good deal with Cingular in favor of the consumer.
I agree 5 years is pretty long. iPhone will be locked to the fortunes or failure of AT&T.
iPhone customers will be locked to whatever restrictions AT&T negotiated with Apple. That will be 5 years with no chance of VOIP.
Depending on its success once iPhone is free from the exclusive deal Apple has far more room to negotiate its terms. Hopefully Apple negotiated a really good deal with Cingular in favor of the consumer.
AT&T is doing well. Their customer base just reached 61.5 million. It seems to be increasing at a good rate.
If what we read is true, that AT&T announced that they were giving 18 months of the plans away with the iPhone, with the customer just paying for 6 months of the 2 year plan, then the phone will effectively be free!
I would like to see just what it means. How much per month will they be giving. Will that include data? Even if they are giving $30 plans away, and you have to pay for upgrades to what you want, that would add up to $540 over the 18 months.
Quite a rebate! That would make the phone more than competive, and would pull customers from other companies at a good clip.
I was unaware that they have since released a patch to uncripple the WiFi.
The Wi-fi was not totally crippled. Verizon originally shipped the phone so that you could not use Wi-FI and CDMA at the same time. This meant no surfing and talking at the same time. Or, you could not share your phone's EVDO internet connection through the Wi-FI.
Verizon also purposely disables certain bluetooth profiles such as wireless pda sync and dialup networking. Just about the only usable bluetooth functionality is for headsets.
I was unaware that they have since released a patch to uncripple the WiFi.
The Wi-fi was not totally crippled, per se. Verizon originally shipped the phone so that you could not use Wi-FI and CDMA at the same time. This meant no surfing and talking at the same time. Or, you could not share your phone's EVDO internet connection through the Wi-FI.
Verizon also purposely disables certain bluetooth profiles such as wireless pda sync and dialup networking. Just about the only usable bluetooth functionality is for headsets.
And even if you subscribe to Verizon's wireless data plan, they have extremely restrictive "terms of service" regarding what you can or can't do over the internet.
It is interesting, though, that Apple went to Verison first. That cancels out a lot of the arguments people here have had about why Apple went the way they did.
Even if they were trying to get an exclusive deal, it seems fair to say they might have been negotiating with Verizon and Cingular at the same time, so as to see which gave them the best deal.
On the other hand, in the first instance, they may not have been seeking an exclusive deal and it just became the only option after negotiations were under way.
If what we read is true, that AT&T announced that they were giving 18 months of the plans away with the iPhone, with the customer just paying for 6 months of the 2 year plan, then the phone will effectively be free!
That would indeed be a sweet deal.
More of what I meant by fortune and failure is the complaints about data speeds. Hopefully things will get better.
Even if they were trying to get an exclusive deal, it seems fair to say they might have been negotiating with Verizon and Cingular at the same time, so as to see which gave them the best deal.
On the other hand, in the first instance, they may not have been seeking an exclusive deal and it just became the only option after negotiations were under way.
It wasn't so much the question of the exclusive deal, as it was the question whether Apple would release this phone only in the US, and possibly other CDMA markets, or release it to the world in general, 80% of which uses GSM.
If they signed Verison, then CDMA would be the default. With AT&T, it's GSM.
More of what I meant by fortune and failure is the complaints about data speeds. Hopefully things will get better.
Sprint is red
Verizon is green
Edge is orange
We have 5 months left to see what will happen.
The problem is that they have to submit any substantive changes that would affect the spectrum to the FCC, which would then have to re-test the device. That takes more than a month. We don't even know if the phone was submitted as yet. Perhaps not. We can only hope.
But it's why I'm happy with my Treo 700p and Sprint.
haha verizons gonna be kicking themselves when the iphone comes out on the market..who buys their verizon phones from best buy, etc....haha i always went straight to verizon?
"They would have been stepping in between us and our customers to the point where we would have almost had to take a back seat ? on hardware and service support," Gerace added.
Dear Mr Gerace, what support are you offering your customers now? I have a 700p that is in need of an update since day one - your company has done NOTHING for that one. This is pride & ignorance at its highest.
I pray that Apple just smokes this. We, in America are getting plummeted around the world in tech because of pride like this. Europe is doing mobile phones right!
As I keep thing about what Apple's long-term strategy is I can't help but feel that the deal with Cingular is really just buying Apple time until it can roll out the service it really wants.
Remember during the keynote Steve said Apple and Google aren't going to merge but each is going to do what they do best in a very tight relationship. In five years Google could have a nationwide WiMax network and Apple could have a compatible iPhone. The real revolution would be that unlike traditional telcos Apple and Google would most likely charge a flat fee for data transmission, irrespective of if it is voice or something else.
Can't wait for 2012!
I agree and think cingular were fools if they signed such a deal with apple. I'll repost what i said in macrumors for those that did not read it. This is a partial post of what i said
I think Verizon is smart and cingular is stupid if they signed such a deal. Apple independent dealers have a thing or two to tell cingular. Remember when apple independent dealers were told they had to push apple protection plans and not only that, but to hand apple their customers list and many independent dealers were complaining about how apple would call their customers behind their backs?. Yeah. Everyone was on apple side on that, claiming that the independent dealers suck, yada, yada, yada. Well, why would verizon agree to hand over to apple their customers?. We'll see how smart cingular is within 5 years when apple decides to start their own cell phone company and have at their fingertips the phone numbers and contact data for all of cingular customers. Cingular is in business to make money, not be cool to apple fans. If i were a cingular shareholder, i'd be furious. Customer data is not free. Companies pay billions for customer data and yet not only is apple acquiring customer data for free (this data they can use when and if they decide to start their own cell phone company) but they are demanding carriers pay for the privelege of divulging their business secret. Wow, that is amazing. If i was a verizon shareholder, i'd be loving them right now. Cingular, you have just bought yourself short term boost but long term, you have given the market to verizon. The apple phone is not gonna put verizon out of business.. it will not even make that significant a dent to verizon (how many people are gonna pay $500 for a phone?.. not me for sure) but all verizon has to do is sit back and wait inevitably for apple to stab cingular in the back.
Dear Mr Gerace, what support are you offering your customers now? I have a 700p that is in need of an update since day one - your company has done NOTHING for that one. This is pride & ignorance at its highest.
I pray that Apple just smokes this. We, in America are getting plummeted around the world in tech because of pride like this. Europe is doing mobile phones right!
Maybe you have a problem with verizon customer service, that is legitimate, but apple has paid nothing to acquire those customers and do not have a right to them. You are still a verizon customer, no?. Verizon had to advertise to get you to go with them. Why should they now agree to hand over their customer data (regardless of how you think they treat the customer) to apple for free?. Even if apple had the best customer service (and they don't. my girlfriend bought an ipod for me for christmas and it was not delivered at all untill well after christmas.. not totally their fault but customer service was horrible. They acted like they could not give a shit.. yeah, maybe it was not their fault but gee, handle the customer with care, will you!!), anyway as i was saying, even if apple has the worlds best customer care, why should verizon spend the money to acquire customers just to hand them over to apple?. This is not communist Russia. Apple want cell customers, they should spend the money to acquire them. I appluad verizon. Like i said previously, Cingular are fools. I hope when apple starts sending cingular customers email (which they did to me after i got my ipod and still do) about "hey, we are about to start our own MVNO, come with us, you get 2 months free, yada, yada, yada".. I hope cingular doesn't have a cow. Yeah, real smart cingular, real smart!!.
What is most interesting is how the hell is apple able to dictate terms?. If i were head of a phone company, exactly what can they tell me to make me bow before them?. Apple has no power in this market. Like hell i would agree to those terms. Remember when apple tried to muscle walmart and walmart told them to go to hell?. Everyone was predicting the demise of walmart cause they don't carry the hottest mp3 player (as if people would stop shopping at walmart cause they didn't have ipods, what a joke). Anyway, verizon is not gonna lose any sleep over this. They'll do just fine. They get to keep their own customers and get to watch as apple stabs cingular in the back in about 5 years or less.
Maybe you have a problem with verizon customer service, that is legitimate, but apple has paid nothing to acquire those customers and do not have a right to them. You are still a verizon customer, no?. Verizon had to advertise to get you to go with them. Why should they now agree to hand over their customer data (regardless of how you think they treat the customer) to apple for free?. Even if apple had the best customer service (and they don't. my girlfriend bought an ipod for me for christmas and it was not delivered at all untill well after christmas.. not totally their fault but customer service was horrible. They acted like they could not give a shit.. yeah, maybe it was not their fault but gee, handle the customer with care, will you!!), anyway as i was saying, even if apple has the worlds best customer care, why should verizon spend the money to acquire customers just to hand them over to apple?. This is not communist Russia. Apple want cell customers, they should spend the money to acquire them. I appluad verizon. Like i said previously, Cingular are fools. I hope when apple starts sending cingular customers email (which they did to me after i got my ipod and still do) about "hey, we are about to start our own MVNO, come with us, you get 2 months free, yada, yada, yada".. I hope cingular doesn't have a cow. Yeah, real smart cingular, real smart!!.
What is most interesting is how the hell is apple able to dictate terms?. If i were head of a phone company, exactly what can they tell me to make me bow before them?. Apple has no power in this market. Like hell i would agree to those terms. Remember when apple tried to muscle walmart and walmart told them to go to hell?. Everyone was predicting the demise of walmart cause they don't carry the hottest mp3 player (as if people would stop shopping at walmart cause they didn't have ipods, what a joke). Anyway, verizon is not gonna lose any sleep over this. They'll do just fine. They get to keep their own customers and get to watch as apple stabs cingular in the back in about 5 years or less.
Again, I think the only response to this line of thinking is to point to ISPs and how they operate.
When Apple offers an internet enabled device are they "taking customers away" from Earthlink? Earthlink has spent money to acquire customers and built out infrastructure, does that mean they should have the right to control how you use the internet, and with what devices?
American cell providers have gotten away with murder. Verizon should be in the business of providing a reliable, pervasive network of cell coverage, period. The handset makers should be free to innovate and add features, just as the rest of the CE and computer industry is free to do with internet capable devices.
The idea that attempting to do so somehow poaches on Verizon's turf makes no sense to me, and the idea that Apple might seek other ways to provide service would amount to "stabbing Cingular in the back" makes even less.
Maybe you have a problem with verizon customer service, that is legitimate, but apple has paid nothing to acquire those customers and do not have a right to them. You are still a verizon customer, no?. Verizon had to advertise to get you to go with them. Why should they now agree to hand over their customer data (regardless of how you think they treat the customer) to apple for free?. Even if apple had the best customer service (and they don't. my girlfriend bought an ipod for me for christmas and it was not delivered at all untill well after christmas.. not totally their fault but customer service was horrible. They acted like they could not give a shit.. yeah, maybe it was not their fault but gee, handle the customer with care, will you!!), anyway as i was saying, even if apple has the worlds best customer care, why should verizon spend the money to acquire customers just to hand them over to apple?. This is not communist Russia. Apple want cell customers, they should spend the money to acquire them. I appluad verizon. Like i said previously, Cingular are fools. I hope when apple starts sending cingular customers email (which they did to me after i got my ipod and still do) about "hey, we are about to start our own MVNO, come with us, you get 2 months free, yada, yada, yada".. I hope cingular doesn't have a cow. Yeah, real smart cingular, real smart!!.
What is most interesting is how the hell is apple able to dictate terms?. If i were head of a phone company, exactly what can they tell me to make me bow before them?. Apple has no power in this market. Like hell i would agree to those terms. Remember when apple tried to muscle walmart and walmart told them to go to hell?. Everyone was predicting the demise of walmart cause they don't carry the hottest mp3 player (as if people would stop shopping at walmart cause they didn't have ipods, what a joke). Anyway, verizon is not gonna lose any sleep over this. They'll do just fine. They get to keep their own customers and get to watch as apple stabs cingular in the back in about 5 years or less.
A couple of objections to what you're getting at...
1) Apple isn't going to start their own cellular network in 5 years. Not happening. Provide a varied line of "iPhones", sure, but there's no way Apple is going to piggyback Cingular for however long and then break off and become Apple Mobile selling only Apple branded phones. If Google succeeds in a National WiFi network, eh ... then maybe we have a chance at seeing an Apple VoIP phone. Don't hold your breath
2) If you buy a Nokia phone to run on the Cingular network, are you a customer of Nokia or Cingular ... or both? When my shitty Motorola phone broke down, I didn't send it to Motorola - it got sent back to Cingular and replaced with a new (still shitty) phone. The argument about whose customers they are is sort of absurd. Ultimately they'll be Cingular customers with Apple hardware. The only difference is, I suspect you'll be able to take your iPhone to the Genius Bar if you have problems ... we may even see a Cingular rep in some stores to give their sales pitch or answer network questions. Apple isn't taking ANYTHING from Cingular. Your argument makes no sense...
3) Are you a Verizon customer angry that you can't get an iPhone?
Comments
I thought the Cingular deal WAS a two-year deal. Also, if Apple couldn't come to terms with Verizon, then it makes you wonder if there ever will be a CDMA version of the phone. All lot of people griped because Apple went with Cingular, but hey ... at least they tried. We'll see how good or bad Verizon's decision was over the next couple of years.
I never though it was for two years. People think that because the deal for the phone to the customer is for two years. There was never any reason why that had anyrthing to do with the deal between Apple and AT&T. Two years seemed to be too short.
It is interesting, though, that Apple went to Verison first. That cancels out a lot of the arguments people here have had about why Apple went the way they did.
If they went CDMA, I wonder what their worldwide plans could have neen?
Are there only four providers now?
No, there are quite a few. But, those are the largest.
I have Sprint, and while I can't speak tio how they are elsewhere, here in NYC, they are pretty good, network wise. For repair policies, feh!
But, once you pay for data service, which is quite speedy, and much cheaper than Verison's, you can use your phone as a computer modem, if it was made to do that, without having to pay extra.
My Treo 700p can do that, though I don't need to.
I never though it was for two years. People think that because the deal for the phone to the customer is for two years. There was never any reason why that had anyrthing to do with the deal between Apple and AT&T. Two years seemed to be too short.
I agree 5 years is pretty long. iPhone will be locked to the fortunes or failure of AT&T.
iPhone customers will be locked to whatever restrictions AT&T negotiated with Apple. That will be 5 years with no chance of VOIP.
Depending on its success once iPhone is free from the exclusive deal Apple has far more room to negotiate its terms. Hopefully Apple negotiated a really good deal with Cingular in favor of the consumer.
I agree 5 years is pretty long. iPhone will be locked to the fortunes or failure of AT&T.
iPhone customers will be locked to whatever restrictions AT&T negotiated with Apple. That will be 5 years with no chance of VOIP.
Depending on its success once iPhone is free from the exclusive deal Apple has far more room to negotiate its terms. Hopefully Apple negotiated a really good deal with Cingular in favor of the consumer.
AT&T is doing well. Their customer base just reached 61.5 million. It seems to be increasing at a good rate.
If what we read is true, that AT&T announced that they were giving 18 months of the plans away with the iPhone, with the customer just paying for 6 months of the 2 year plan, then the phone will effectively be free!
I would like to see just what it means. How much per month will they be giving. Will that include data? Even if they are giving $30 plans away, and you have to pay for upgrades to what you want, that would add up to $540 over the 18 months.
Quite a rebate! That would make the phone more than competive, and would pull customers from other companies at a good clip.
Here is PCMag's initial review of the phone:
I was unaware that they have since released a patch to uncripple the WiFi.
The Wi-fi was not totally crippled. Verizon originally shipped the phone so that you could not use Wi-FI and CDMA at the same time. This meant no surfing and talking at the same time. Or, you could not share your phone's EVDO internet connection through the Wi-FI.
Verizon also purposely disables certain bluetooth profiles such as wireless pda sync and dialup networking. Just about the only usable bluetooth functionality is for headsets.
Here is PCMag's initial review of the phone:
I was unaware that they have since released a patch to uncripple the WiFi.
The Wi-fi was not totally crippled, per se. Verizon originally shipped the phone so that you could not use Wi-FI and CDMA at the same time. This meant no surfing and talking at the same time. Or, you could not share your phone's EVDO internet connection through the Wi-FI.
Verizon also purposely disables certain bluetooth profiles such as wireless pda sync and dialup networking. Just about the only usable bluetooth functionality is for headsets.
And even if you subscribe to Verizon's wireless data plan, they have extremely restrictive "terms of service" regarding what you can or can't do over the internet.
It is interesting, though, that Apple went to Verison first. That cancels out a lot of the arguments people here have had about why Apple went the way they did.
Even if they were trying to get an exclusive deal, it seems fair to say they might have been negotiating with Verizon and Cingular at the same time, so as to see which gave them the best deal.
On the other hand, in the first instance, they may not have been seeking an exclusive deal and it just became the only option after negotiations were under way.
If what we read is true, that AT&T announced that they were giving 18 months of the plans away with the iPhone, with the customer just paying for 6 months of the 2 year plan, then the phone will effectively be free!
That would indeed be a sweet deal.
More of what I meant by fortune and failure is the complaints about data speeds. Hopefully things will get better.
Sprint is red
Verizon is green
Edge is orange
That would indeed be a sweet deal.
More of what I meant by fortune and failure is the complaints about data speeds. Hopefully things will get better.
Sprint is red
Verizon is green
Edge is orange
Eeek. That ain't good.
Even if they were trying to get an exclusive deal, it seems fair to say they might have been negotiating with Verizon and Cingular at the same time, so as to see which gave them the best deal.
On the other hand, in the first instance, they may not have been seeking an exclusive deal and it just became the only option after negotiations were under way.
It wasn't so much the question of the exclusive deal, as it was the question whether Apple would release this phone only in the US, and possibly other CDMA markets, or release it to the world in general, 80% of which uses GSM.
If they signed Verison, then CDMA would be the default. With AT&T, it's GSM.
That would indeed be a sweet deal.
More of what I meant by fortune and failure is the complaints about data speeds. Hopefully things will get better.
Sprint is red
Verizon is green
Edge is orange
We have 5 months left to see what will happen.
The problem is that they have to submit any substantive changes that would affect the spectrum to the FCC, which would then have to re-test the device. That takes more than a month. We don't even know if the phone was submitted as yet. Perhaps not. We can only hope.
But it's why I'm happy with my Treo 700p and Sprint.
"They would have been stepping in between us and our customers to the point where we would have almost had to take a back seat ? on hardware and service support," Gerace added.
Dear Mr Gerace, what support are you offering your customers now? I have a 700p that is in need of an update since day one - your company has done NOTHING for that one. This is pride & ignorance at its highest.
I pray that Apple just smokes this. We, in America are getting plummeted around the world in tech because of pride like this. Europe is doing mobile phones right!
As I keep thing about what Apple's long-term strategy is I can't help but feel that the deal with Cingular is really just buying Apple time until it can roll out the service it really wants.
Remember during the keynote Steve said Apple and Google aren't going to merge but each is going to do what they do best in a very tight relationship. In five years Google could have a nationwide WiMax network and Apple could have a compatible iPhone. The real revolution would be that unlike traditional telcos Apple and Google would most likely charge a flat fee for data transmission, irrespective of if it is voice or something else.
Can't wait for 2012!
I agree and think cingular were fools if they signed such a deal with apple. I'll repost what i said in macrumors for those that did not read it. This is a partial post of what i said
I think Verizon is smart and cingular is stupid if they signed such a deal. Apple independent dealers have a thing or two to tell cingular. Remember when apple independent dealers were told they had to push apple protection plans and not only that, but to hand apple their customers list and many independent dealers were complaining about how apple would call their customers behind their backs?. Yeah. Everyone was on apple side on that, claiming that the independent dealers suck, yada, yada, yada. Well, why would verizon agree to hand over to apple their customers?. We'll see how smart cingular is within 5 years when apple decides to start their own cell phone company and have at their fingertips the phone numbers and contact data for all of cingular customers. Cingular is in business to make money, not be cool to apple fans. If i were a cingular shareholder, i'd be furious. Customer data is not free. Companies pay billions for customer data and yet not only is apple acquiring customer data for free (this data they can use when and if they decide to start their own cell phone company) but they are demanding carriers pay for the privelege of divulging their business secret. Wow, that is amazing. If i was a verizon shareholder, i'd be loving them right now. Cingular, you have just bought yourself short term boost but long term, you have given the market to verizon. The apple phone is not gonna put verizon out of business.. it will not even make that significant a dent to verizon (how many people are gonna pay $500 for a phone?.. not me for sure) but all verizon has to do is sit back and wait inevitably for apple to stab cingular in the back.
OK, with this:
Dear Mr Gerace, what support are you offering your customers now? I have a 700p that is in need of an update since day one - your company has done NOTHING for that one. This is pride & ignorance at its highest.
I pray that Apple just smokes this. We, in America are getting plummeted around the world in tech because of pride like this. Europe is doing mobile phones right!
Maybe you have a problem with verizon customer service, that is legitimate, but apple has paid nothing to acquire those customers and do not have a right to them. You are still a verizon customer, no?. Verizon had to advertise to get you to go with them. Why should they now agree to hand over their customer data (regardless of how you think they treat the customer) to apple for free?. Even if apple had the best customer service (and they don't. my girlfriend bought an ipod for me for christmas and it was not delivered at all untill well after christmas.. not totally their fault but customer service was horrible. They acted like they could not give a shit.. yeah, maybe it was not their fault but gee, handle the customer with care, will you!!), anyway as i was saying, even if apple has the worlds best customer care, why should verizon spend the money to acquire customers just to hand them over to apple?. This is not communist Russia. Apple want cell customers, they should spend the money to acquire them. I appluad verizon. Like i said previously, Cingular are fools. I hope when apple starts sending cingular customers email (which they did to me after i got my ipod and still do) about "hey, we are about to start our own MVNO, come with us, you get 2 months free, yada, yada, yada".. I hope cingular doesn't have a cow. Yeah, real smart cingular, real smart!!.
What is most interesting is how the hell is apple able to dictate terms?. If i were head of a phone company, exactly what can they tell me to make me bow before them?. Apple has no power in this market. Like hell i would agree to those terms. Remember when apple tried to muscle walmart and walmart told them to go to hell?. Everyone was predicting the demise of walmart cause they don't carry the hottest mp3 player (as if people would stop shopping at walmart cause they didn't have ipods, what a joke). Anyway, verizon is not gonna lose any sleep over this. They'll do just fine. They get to keep their own customers and get to watch as apple stabs cingular in the back in about 5 years or less.
Woah! Big difference.
Verizon blocks features and forces you to spend more money by locking you into their services.
Apple put WiFi into the iPhone so you aren't locked into only using the carrier's expensive data plan.
Verizon disables bluetooth so you can't sync with your Address Book or send pictures directly to your computer.
Apple exerts tight control over the phone so you have a seemless experience syncing YOUR addresses, photos, music and photos.
I could go on...
Yeah, so basically, your dictator (apple) is better than the other guys dictator (Verizon).
Yeah, so basically, your dictator (apple) is better than the other guys dictator (Verizon).
The difference is that neither Apple, nor any other phone manufacturer, controls the network, or any of the calling plans.
They attempt to add features to their phones as fast as the technology allows.
The networks attempt to charge for every feature that is added, even though many of them can be used independent of the network itself.
I would rather Apple offer iTunes through the iPhone, than have to pay AT&T, or anyone else, twice, or more for the same songs.
Why can't every phone capable of it be used as a modem without having to pay more fees?
The list can go on as you know.
Even using Bluetooth stereo headsets has been prevented by carriers, as has syncing to a computer over wireless. Why?
If the phone can do it, we should be able to as well.
So, yes, I'd rather Apple, or other phone makers, be the dictator, than the network owners.
Maybe you have a problem with verizon customer service, that is legitimate, but apple has paid nothing to acquire those customers and do not have a right to them. You are still a verizon customer, no?. Verizon had to advertise to get you to go with them. Why should they now agree to hand over their customer data (regardless of how you think they treat the customer) to apple for free?. Even if apple had the best customer service (and they don't. my girlfriend bought an ipod for me for christmas and it was not delivered at all untill well after christmas.. not totally their fault but customer service was horrible. They acted like they could not give a shit.. yeah, maybe it was not their fault but gee, handle the customer with care, will you!!), anyway as i was saying, even if apple has the worlds best customer care, why should verizon spend the money to acquire customers just to hand them over to apple?. This is not communist Russia. Apple want cell customers, they should spend the money to acquire them. I appluad verizon. Like i said previously, Cingular are fools. I hope when apple starts sending cingular customers email (which they did to me after i got my ipod and still do) about "hey, we are about to start our own MVNO, come with us, you get 2 months free, yada, yada, yada".. I hope cingular doesn't have a cow. Yeah, real smart cingular, real smart!!.
What is most interesting is how the hell is apple able to dictate terms?. If i were head of a phone company, exactly what can they tell me to make me bow before them?. Apple has no power in this market. Like hell i would agree to those terms. Remember when apple tried to muscle walmart and walmart told them to go to hell?. Everyone was predicting the demise of walmart cause they don't carry the hottest mp3 player (as if people would stop shopping at walmart cause they didn't have ipods, what a joke). Anyway, verizon is not gonna lose any sleep over this. They'll do just fine. They get to keep their own customers and get to watch as apple stabs cingular in the back in about 5 years or less.
Again, I think the only response to this line of thinking is to point to ISPs and how they operate.
When Apple offers an internet enabled device are they "taking customers away" from Earthlink? Earthlink has spent money to acquire customers and built out infrastructure, does that mean they should have the right to control how you use the internet, and with what devices?
American cell providers have gotten away with murder. Verizon should be in the business of providing a reliable, pervasive network of cell coverage, period. The handset makers should be free to innovate and add features, just as the rest of the CE and computer industry is free to do with internet capable devices.
The idea that attempting to do so somehow poaches on Verizon's turf makes no sense to me, and the idea that Apple might seek other ways to provide service would amount to "stabbing Cingular in the back" makes even less.
Maybe you have a problem with verizon customer service, that is legitimate, but apple has paid nothing to acquire those customers and do not have a right to them. You are still a verizon customer, no?. Verizon had to advertise to get you to go with them. Why should they now agree to hand over their customer data (regardless of how you think they treat the customer) to apple for free?. Even if apple had the best customer service (and they don't. my girlfriend bought an ipod for me for christmas and it was not delivered at all untill well after christmas.. not totally their fault but customer service was horrible. They acted like they could not give a shit.. yeah, maybe it was not their fault but gee, handle the customer with care, will you!!), anyway as i was saying, even if apple has the worlds best customer care, why should verizon spend the money to acquire customers just to hand them over to apple?. This is not communist Russia. Apple want cell customers, they should spend the money to acquire them. I appluad verizon. Like i said previously, Cingular are fools. I hope when apple starts sending cingular customers email (which they did to me after i got my ipod and still do) about "hey, we are about to start our own MVNO, come with us, you get 2 months free, yada, yada, yada".. I hope cingular doesn't have a cow. Yeah, real smart cingular, real smart!!.
What is most interesting is how the hell is apple able to dictate terms?. If i were head of a phone company, exactly what can they tell me to make me bow before them?. Apple has no power in this market. Like hell i would agree to those terms. Remember when apple tried to muscle walmart and walmart told them to go to hell?. Everyone was predicting the demise of walmart cause they don't carry the hottest mp3 player (as if people would stop shopping at walmart cause they didn't have ipods, what a joke). Anyway, verizon is not gonna lose any sleep over this. They'll do just fine. They get to keep their own customers and get to watch as apple stabs cingular in the back in about 5 years or less.
A couple of objections to what you're getting at...
1) Apple isn't going to start their own cellular network in 5 years. Not happening. Provide a varied line of "iPhones", sure, but there's no way Apple is going to piggyback Cingular for however long and then break off and become Apple Mobile selling only Apple branded phones. If Google succeeds in a National WiFi network, eh ... then maybe we have a chance at seeing an Apple VoIP phone. Don't hold your breath
2) If you buy a Nokia phone to run on the Cingular network, are you a customer of Nokia or Cingular ... or both? When my shitty Motorola phone broke down, I didn't send it to Motorola - it got sent back to Cingular and replaced with a new (still shitty) phone. The argument about whose customers they are is sort of absurd. Ultimately they'll be Cingular customers with Apple hardware. The only difference is, I suspect you'll be able to take your iPhone to the Genius Bar if you have problems ... we may even see a Cingular rep in some stores to give their sales pitch or answer network questions. Apple isn't taking ANYTHING from Cingular. Your argument makes no sense...
3) Are you a Verizon customer angry that you can't get an iPhone?