A glimpse of iPhone 2.0?

Posted:
in iPhone edited January 2014
If only American phone technology was up to speed with the rest of the world...



http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/08/s...ra-smart-f700/
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 39
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    The US is definitely behind in 3G coverage. But to be fair the US deployed mobile technology earlier and has a much larger area to cover with more people using mobile phones than Europe. So it will take time to update new technology.



    As far as the Samsung Ultrasmart F700. All we have so far are renderings and a partial spec sheet. That says nothing about how well the phone will work. From the direction the iPhone is headed I don't see this really being a direct competitor.



    EDIT: The Samsung has no WiFi that blows any comparison right there.
  • Reply 2 of 39
    Plus the UI probably won't be as good...
  • Reply 3 of 39
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,660member
    How much do you want to bet that no matter how much it costs or how brief the battery life or how small on board memory, it will be met with ecstasy by the same people dismissing the iPhone for........ being too expensive and not having enough memory or battery life.



    In fact, judging by the comments on the Engadget article, the Apple bashers are ready to declare it the iPhone killer just based on some still shots and no details.



    Really, people love to go on about the unseemliness of "Apple fan boys" but if you read the comments they are high fiving each other specifically because they imagine that this phone "sticks it to Apple" and will crush the spirits of Apple fan boys and leave Steve Jogs a shattered husk.



    That strikes me as way more fucked up than being an enthusiast of a given platform.
  • Reply 4 of 39
    physguyphysguy Posts: 916member
    Have to agree with addabox overall.



    Compared to the iPhone this would not interest me at all because....

    1) It's got to be quite a bit thicker than the iPhone given the sliding function for the keypad



    2) It's likely to be heavier if it is indeed thicker



    3) while you can't really judge yet the pictures of the SW look somewhat childish and thrown together. simple silhouettes without labels. I still have kick myself to go to the stupid wrench image for the possible tool I'm looking for.



    4) have to wait and see what the 'real browser' really does before comparing



    Some of these are guesses as there is no real data on this phone. Also, a qualifier, I have NO interest in 3G as long as I have wifi. wifi is free at enough places that I wonder why should I pay the exhorbitant prices for high-speed data access. Maybe edge would be OK depending on pricing (haven't done a detailed comparison) for a few things.



    One thing I'd like to know is what is the color depth of the iPhone. I know a lot of these screen are 64K or like this one 256K. I hope the iPhone is 16million. Also, if the report is correct that the iPhone has three processors, how does that compare to other smart phone?
  • Reply 5 of 39
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Even thought the iPhone probably sits more between a smartphone and UMPC.









    This is more of iPhones competition than most other smartphones. Because most smartphones are missing some fundamental functionality of the iPhone. While the iPhone has most of the fundamental functionality of a UMPC.
  • Reply 6 of 39
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,660member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    Even thought the iPhone probably sits more between a smartphone and UMPC.









    This is more of iPhones competition than most other smartphones. Because most smartphones are missing some fundamental functionality of the iPhone. While the iPhone has most of the fundamental functionality of a UMPC.



    Actually, that picture is a great example of what the iPhone is all about, UI wise.



    Sony does old school "serious" design as well or better than anyone. Their products are generally purposeful looking, with clean a "we mean business" layout and a kind of "pro" vibe.



    However, that means that if you want to actually use something like the UMPC pictured, you are going to have to learn how. It's almost as if a deal were being made: we'll give you power, but you have to submit to the complexity that that entails, and that's how it should be. Something this mighty doesn't warrant a "friendly" interface because that would be beneath it. But once you figure it out, won't you feel like teh awesome fighter pilot?



    I think we all agree that the iPhone UI is destined for a wider range of products, and that its UI is a completely different vibe from something like the Sony. Kind of a "come on in here and check it out!" kind of thing. Apple seems to be under the impression that anybody might want to be able to have a lot of computing power in the palm of their hand, not just the technorati.



    Since that has never happened before, we have no idea how the target market--everybody else-- will respond, but meanwhile the same technorati that is so very pleased with being able to master really bad UI design are the ones doing all the talking.



    So in that sense everything being said now means nothing. The composition of the punditry, in this case, is just 180º around in their thinking from where Apple is going with this. Of course they're not impressed, because they already have a phone that "does all that" or a phone is coming out will "do all that but even better". Of course they have opinions on "must have" features that the iPhone lacks, or are certain it will fail if it doesn't cater to their needs.



    They are the narrow demographic that has already mastered the existing paradigm. That makes you smarter and more technically adept than most people, so why would you welcome a device that makes your hard won skills irrelevant?



    It's very similar to the Mac vs. Windows debate of some time ago, when the Windows interface was truly grim: you heard all the time that it was that very grimness that made Windows a "real" computer, and that the Mac's ease of use was proof of its lack of seriousness. A toy. Toys are easy to use, real computers require cultivated skills.



    Now Windows is Vista, so it's pretty clear how that debate sorted out in the end, isn't it?



    So here we go again, as if that lesson had never been learned. The gnarly little interfaces already out there are perfectly serviceable ("I have no problem using it, so if you can't it must mean you just aren't smart enough") and the iPhone is just a lot of eye candy.



    And guess which way the industry will go?
  • Reply 7 of 39
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    Even thought the iPhone probably sits more between a smartphone and UMPC.









    This is more of iPhones competition than most other smartphones. Because most smartphones are missing some fundamental functionality of the iPhone. While the iPhone has most of the fundamental functionality of a UMPC.



    i played with that umpc at the sony store in the metreon when i was in san fran last month. at first glance it seems really cool, until you start using it and realize that it sucks. it's not a great small media device and it's not a great computer. it's basically a computer that's inconveniently small or a pda that's really huge and unportable. nice screen and generally nice build quality, but i can't really see a situation in which i'd enjoy using that. i'd prefer a tablet greatly over that machine. at least a tablet is large enough to be read easily.
  • Reply 8 of 39
    Probably a dumb question, but I've never used EDGE before.



    How much of a difference is 3G over EDGE. I'm thinking in terms of rendering time and just the overall browsing experience?



    Is it like DSL is to dial-up?



    BTW, well said addabox in the above post. I find it amusing a lot of those engadget posters are praising Samsung for making a phone that's sticking it to Apple when in fact it's Samsung that has a primary role in the iPhone itself.
  • Reply 9 of 39
    Edge vs 3G is like 56K vs DSL. Edge is bearable, but only barely.



    I have no doubt that the Apple UI will be a lot better than Samsung's (Assuming Samsung doesn't use WM6), but that is mainly because they are putting a lot more time into it. I was speaking more about the 5MP camera and 3G radio. I'm sure the iPhone will be slimmer, but that Samsung doesn't look all that bulky for its stats / keyboard.



    For the record, I would still take an iPhone in a heartbeat, and fully intend on switching from Verizon to get one, I just like to rant.



    EDIT:Read the document. 104 X 50 X 16.4 MM. It's not that thick at all considering it has a keyboard
  • Reply 10 of 39
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    3G radio doesn't much matter if you have no 3G signal. Even though Edge is much slower it has wider deployment.



    Samsung's UI is based on Flash which is basically pretty animations with no real power underneath. iPhone is based on OS X API's, desktop level development platform.



    People take megapixels too much at their face value. As in everything its more complicated than only 2MP vs 5MP. There is a reason they can have a 8MP point and shoot that costs $300 and a 8MP SLR that costs $900. The more expensive camera has a better lens and more sophisticated image processing than than cheaper camera. Which improves sharpness, color, contrast, low light ability.



    The quality of the lens plays a paramount part into the quality of the image. I'm sure all camera phones are using the cheapest lens possible. There is a limiting factor of how sharp a picture such a small lens can resolve that more pixels won't help. Plus over time the lens will get scratches which degrades the quality.
  • Reply 11 of 39
    That's disappointing since Cingular actually has a decent 3G network here in Sacramento.
  • Reply 12 of 39
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,660member
    Do they? I wonder what they look like here in the Bay Area-- I never checked.



    I can understand why Apple wouldn't put a feature on the iPhone that the vast majority of its potential users couldn't use, but I hope that Cingular/ATT have some kind of fairly aggressive rollout of 3G coverage planned.



    Speaking of which, anyone know what such a rollout would entail? Are we talking massively expensive, wholesale replacement of transponders and back-end hardware? Software upgrades?



    Just curious.
  • Reply 13 of 39
    adda,



    http://www.cingular.com/coverageviewer/



    Center in on the yay area and click Show 3G coverage. You have to be zoomed in a bit closer on the map.
  • Reply 14 of 39
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,660member
    Thanks for the link.



    And....... we got nothin'. Huh. Oh well, at least I won't be bummed knowing that my iPhone could have been doing 3G if they had just put the radio in.



    Still, if ATT can't manage 3G in the Bay Area, with its heavy concentration of smart phone wielding tech workers, it suggests the national picture ain't so good.



    You've got pretty good coverage in Sacto, you say? Maybe they're doing test markets? Maybe Ahnold order them to?
  • Reply 15 of 39
    Ummm...you got a little more than nothin'. All of San Francisco and Oakland is covered under 3G. A lot of the Bay Area has 3G, except for parts west of Martinez and all of Pittsburg. And they don't even deserve 3G anyways...



    Continue to be bummed.



    Ah yes, poor Ahnold. There's only two things he can't have in his life...



    The Presidency and a 3G iPhone.
  • Reply 16 of 39
    julesjules Posts: 149member
    Have you people ever thought that Steve Jobs made an enormous error in announcing the iPhone so early before it is shipped.



    As you can see, Samsung and now a whole raft of unsrcupulous chinese are going to basically copy the design as and where they want to. China doesn't give a shite about copyright violations and they will make it one quarter as good, but it will be there.



    So while we are waiting patiently for this marvel to turn up, the real phone manufacturers will be slaving away, picking out what they perceive is wrong with the iPhone, improving on it, and they will probably still beat the iPhone to market.



    Plus, the iPhone has some critical flaws. No 3G? come on guys, GSM is still flourishing, but its not the future. And putting wifi in, well, if you want Telco's to sell your phone, you want Telco's to be maximising their revenue return from the phone they are promoting, which the iPhone does not do. There are a few companies which ave been offered this thing before Cingular came along and all turned it down. I dont beleive this device has a viable future much more than a very cool curiosity. People want real tools that they can use, and this isn't one of them.



    -I am a telecommunications consultant and have seen what is being said around the industry about it. I do wish them well, but they have to improve the design.
  • Reply 17 of 39
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,660member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Guybrush Threepwood View Post


    Ummm...you got a little more than nothin'. All of San Francisco and Oakland is covered under 3G. A lot of the Bay Area has 3G, except for parts west of Martinez and all of Pittsburg. And they don't even deserve 3G anyways...



    Continue to be bummed.



    Ah yes, poor Ahnold. There's only two things he can't have in his life...



    The Presidency and a 3G iPhone.



    OK, I must be misreading the link you posted. It appears to be saying that 3G is marked by blue, and I'm not seeing any blue.



    Plenty of orange, which it indicates best quality regular service, I guess. Or am I getting that wrong?
  • Reply 18 of 39
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,660member
    Oh, I get it, they want me to tick the box to see 3G. Duh!



    And, grrrrrr...... all that 3G goodness going to waste! I demand iPhone 2.0 immediately!
  • Reply 19 of 39
    thttht Posts: 3,932member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jules View Post


    Have you people ever thought that Steve Jobs made an enormous error in announcing the iPhone so early before it is shipped.



    They had to if they wanted to make a splash. Otherwise, the FCC would have leaked it. The release cycle they chose was the least damaging time anyways, and they chose the announcement and shipping time frames very carefully to avoid the iPod sales season.



    Quote:

    As you can see, Samsung and now a whole raft of unsrcupulous chinese are going to basically copy the design as and where they want to. China doesn't give a shite about copyright violations and they will make it one quarter as good, but it will be there.



    This isn't a copy. You don't make hardware in 2 months. It takes 2 years.



    This looks to be a pretty interesting phone. Looks to be a Symbian phone with a Flash based WIMP UI that supports drag and drop and a low-level vibrating feedback to touchscreen touches. The vibrating feedback will be interesting. The rest is who knows.



    The 5 MP camera is just featuritis. 90% useless. My 5 MP Canon Powershot 2 IS is a decent digital camera. If has 12x optical zoom with image stabilization and a raft of other features to control F-stop, exposure timings, auto-focus, color, etc. It still doesn't do well in low light, or in fast situations. My wife even down converts to 1024x768 for all the pictures we print! The 5 MP camera on this phone is like using a lawnmower engine to power an SUV. It'll move, but not very fast. 2 MP on the iPhone is almost too much. I can't believe people get excited about cameras on phones.



    Quote:

    So while we are waiting patiently for this marvel to turn up, the real phone manufacturers will be slaving away, picking out what they perceive is wrong with the iPhone, improving on it, and they will probably still beat the iPhone to market.



    Really doubtful that they'll be able to do any of that. The real response will only come if or when Apple proves that there is a large and very profitable $500 consumer phone market.



    Quote:

    Plus, the iPhone has some critical flaws. No 3G? come on guys, GSM is still flourishing, but its not the future. And putting wifi in, well, if you want Telco's to sell your phone, you want Telco's to be maximising their revenue return from the phone they are promoting, which the iPhone does not do. There are a few companies which ave been offered this thing before Cingular came along and all turned it down. I dont beleive this device has a viable future much more than a very cool curiosity. People want real tools that they can use, and this isn't one of them.



    If there was a critical flaw with the iPhone, it's the 4/8 GB flash. They should have 30/80 GB instead. The 3G radio will come, probably within 6 months of initial launch. I have no doubt about it.



    For the rest of your comments, Apple isn't really interested in selling a business tool. Their only real business machine is the Xserve RAID, maybe. The Mac and MB Pros service their content creation market which is really part of their legacy, and the rest are consumer devices. The iPhone will live or die in the consumer space, and whether it really is the best iPod to date, easy to use phone, and easy to use mobile internet communicator, all in one device.



    As for making money for Cingular, if the phone is successful, the money will be in a new set of wealthy users willing to spend lots of money on data plans and other features that the telco will offer. You think people buying a $99 Moto Q or $200 Treo is going to spend $50/month on data plans?
  • Reply 20 of 39
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:

    I dont beleive this device has a viable future much more than a very cool curiosity. People want real tools that they can use, and this isn't one of them.



    Why do you believe the iPhone is not a real tool? The iPhone essentially has a blank screen that any application or UI can be placed, its about the most flexible tool in its market.



    I've played around with a friends Blackberry. It does not show you full web pages. To navigate the web is not very easy. The BlackBerry does not show you full e-mail as it would appear on a desktop computer with picture or video attachments. In-spite of its short comings the Blackberry is considered a valuable tool. Considering the iPhone does both of these tasks better where does the iPhone fall short?



    Quote:

    If there was a critical flaw with the iPhone, it's the 4/8 GB flash. They should have 30/80 GB instead.



    They have to strike a balance with size, weight, and battery life. None of the most popular smartphones have a HDD. Hopefully Apple will be able to update to 16GB by launch.
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