Yes, it's not exactly ground-breaking technology, but I have had the exact complaint of why they didn't do this. About bloody time!
Yeah, not even remotely new, ground-breaking, or revolutionary... My SoniCare toothbrush has been charged this way since I bought it in 1995. While it works great for my toothbrush in an environment where the electrical parts need to be protected from lots of running water, i don't think I care for the idea with regard to using it in an iPod. Maybe if I saw one, I'd think differently.
Bit of more logic analysis as to what this type of inductive charging device might actually translate to if it were to be implemented for portable devices such as an iPod or iPhone:
sure it's a neat idea for a dock but doesn't the dock have to be wired itself? I mean, it doesn't draw power from the sun to provide power to the portable device :P . So it would require an ac plug? If it did it would mean that a secondary plug would be required to sync data (usb). Well now you really have more wires hanging around your desk than if you just used a standard usb to ipod connector cable in the first place. If it didn't require an ac plug could this new dock thing really draw enough power from a usb power to power and sync a device wirlessley using this induction method? I have doubts.
Either way, if this type of docking for iPods & iPhones & other Apple portable devices are eventually going to replace the standard cable charging and syncing method that exists today, its going to get....complicated (to say the least) for 3rd party accessory manufactures. Even if the backside of such a dock still used the standard iPod connector type to attach the dock to a PC or other device, securing and portability of such a dock could be an issue for manufactures whom would like to create portable solutions. For example, you could use standard cellphone/ipod type holder for you iPod/iPhone in your car you just wont be able to charge or play audio through it.
IMO, this is Apple's way of taking control of the accessory market completely. It's a pretty big market that I'm pretty sure Apple's been wanting a piece of for sometime now.
sure it's a neat idea for a dock but doesn't the dock have to be wired itself? I mean, it doesn't draw power from the sun to provide power to the portable device :P . So it would require an ac plug? If it did it would mean that a secondary plug would be required to sync data (usb).
Of course the dock would need to be wired for power - how else would it get its power that it wirelessly gives the iPhone/Pod? Data sync via USB, however, would not be required in a device that had bluetooth and/or wifi.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boss1
.... eventually going to replace the standard cable charging and syncing method that exists today, its going to get....complicated (to say the least) for 3rd party accessory manufactures.
I hope they keep the existing dock connector. For charging and data access when away from home (I don't want to carry my dock with me.... defeats the purpose).
I would images that this could cause the phone or device to be larger than they are now since transformers are not really effiecent. You will have lots of lost energy.
Transformers can be efficient, 99%+. Puting it into a device whose primary use is something else that's not conducive to this use, a portable device at that, won't be so efficient. That can be improved by using a higher induction frequency, but there's still the gap and other factors in the system that's not ideal for power transfer.
You are right that this will allow APPLE to capitalize more on the accessories, and the induction part is just like apple to try and patent. I will say, there are a few companies that have features like the ones they announced today already in place for electronic devices, ours being one of them with Vertical and Horizontal features as well as design(s) implemented for swiveling. You can read about this here
Quote:
Originally Posted by boss1
Bit of more logic analysis as to what this type of inductive charging device might actually translate to if it were to be implemented for portable devices such as an iPod or iPhone:
sure it's a neat idea for a dock but doesn't the dock have to be wired itself? I mean, it doesn't draw power from the sun to provide power to the portable device :P . So it would require an ac plug? If it did it would mean that a secondary plug would be required to sync data (usb). Well now you really have more wires hanging around your desk than if you just used a standard usb to ipod connector cable in the first place. If it didn't require an ac plug could this new dock thing really draw enough power from a usb power to power and sync a device wirlessley using this induction method? I have doubts.
Either way, if this type of docking for iPods & iPhones & other Apple portable devices are eventually going to replace the standard cable charging and syncing method that exists today, its going to get....complicated (to say the least) for 3rd party accessory manufactures. Even if the backside of such a dock still used the standard iPod connector type to attach the dock to a PC or other device, securing and portability of such a dock could be an issue for manufactures whom would like to create portable solutions. For example, you could use standard cellphone/ipod type holder for you iPod/iPhone in your car you just wont be able to charge or play audio through it.
IMO, this is Apple's way of taking control of the accessory market completely. It's a pretty big market that I'm pretty sure Apple's been wanting a piece of for sometime now.
Yeah, not even remotely new, ground-breaking, or revolutionary... My SoniCare toothbrush has been charged this way since I bought it in 1995. While it works great for my toothbrush in an environment where the electrical parts need to be protected from lots of running water, i don't think I care for the idea with regard to using it in an iPod. Maybe if I saw one, I'd think differently.
Can your toothbrush download MP3s via conductance?
IMHO if Apple is going to opt for an induction charger, I'd like them to do us a favor and develop an induction charger that is not devise specific.
If it's molded to dock with an iPod / iPhone, and nothing else, then they're defeating the whole point of an induction charger. Ideally, you should be able to buy an induction pad that you could place your camera, phone, iPod, vibrator, or whatever on.
Splashpower announced their technology years ago. We're still waiting for products actually on the market. Some speculate it's vaporware. Meanwhile, they refuse to divulge the efficiency of the technology. Educated guesses put it as low as 25%. So you could be wasting 3/4 of the power put into the pad just because you find cords "inconvenient."
In terms of power efficiency, the Apple patent states that by having the device rest in close to the charger (ie a customised dock fitting with the iPhone/pod/whatever) the efficiency increases substantially.
Transformers can be efficient, 99%+. Puting it into a device whose primary use is something else that's not conducive to this use, a portable device at that, won't be so efficient. That can be improved by using a higher induction frequency, but there's still the gap and other factors in the system that's not ideal for power transfer.
It's rare that transformers are that efficient. It's usually much lower due to capacitive leakage, etc.
What I wonder about here is how they can deal with the very high frequencies used in modern data transmnission. Transformers' main problem is frequency response. There is electrical inerta in a transformer. The higher the frequency, the more inertia. The frequency eventually can't reverse fast enough. This is due to the inductance of the unit (RC).
Transformers are often used as inductors to remove high frequency components from the signal, as in power line conditioners.
Very small transformers with fine wiring can carry higher frequencies, but I've not seen any capable of carrying a direct data signal of this type. Past video frequencies the losses are too great.
I'm interested to see just how they have gotten around these problems.
True enough, but inductive charging is intrinsically less efficient than conductive charging. Basically, you're creating a second transformer, in addition to the first one in the AC adapter. Transformers always introduce losses into a system. I would have preferred a conductive system with contacts that didn't care about orientation. For instance, maybe contacts in concentric rings on the iPod, with a line of contacts on the dock such that they always align as a radius on the rings.
But energy efficiency is not a big concern for most people anyway. That's why we collectively waste lots of electricity broadcasting WiFi signals all over the place instead of using long Ethernet cables at home.
Hey! I use a long Ethernet cable rather than thoughtlessly wasting energy... but only because I can't afford that neat little Airport Express.. :-(
When are they going to upgrade that to the faster wireless standard anyway?
Splashpower announced their technology years ago. We're still waiting for products actually on the market. Some speculate it's vaporware. Meanwhile, they refuse to divulge the efficiency of the technology. Educated guesses put it as low as 25%. So you could be wasting 3/4 of the power put into the pad just because you find cords "inconvenient."
Those links were more proof of concept then anything else. Yet, the SplashPad seemingly has the same release date as the Optimus Keyboard or Duke Nukem Forever.
That said, the newly announced WildCharger supplies 90w and should go on sale this summer. The things are butt ugly, but could be built into desktops and or given some love by a good industrial design team.
If Apple decides to opt for induction charging, I'd prefer they design a solution that isn't just another proprietary dock, yet with a bigger price tag.
Comments
Yes, it's not exactly ground-breaking technology, but I have had the exact complaint of why they didn't do this. About bloody time!
Yeah, not even remotely new, ground-breaking, or revolutionary... My SoniCare toothbrush has been charged this way since I bought it in 1995. While it works great for my toothbrush in an environment where the electrical parts need to be protected from lots of running water, i don't think I care for the idea with regard to using it in an iPod. Maybe if I saw one, I'd think differently.
sure it's a neat idea for a dock but doesn't the dock have to be wired itself? I mean, it doesn't draw power from the sun to provide power to the portable device :P . So it would require an ac plug? If it did it would mean that a secondary plug would be required to sync data (usb). Well now you really have more wires hanging around your desk than if you just used a standard usb to ipod connector cable in the first place. If it didn't require an ac plug could this new dock thing really draw enough power from a usb power to power and sync a device wirlessley using this induction method? I have doubts.
Either way, if this type of docking for iPods & iPhones & other Apple portable devices are eventually going to replace the standard cable charging and syncing method that exists today, its going to get....complicated (to say the least) for 3rd party accessory manufactures. Even if the backside of such a dock still used the standard iPod connector type to attach the dock to a PC or other device, securing and portability of such a dock could be an issue for manufactures whom would like to create portable solutions. For example, you could use standard cellphone/ipod type holder for you iPod/iPhone in your car you just wont be able to charge or play audio through it.
IMO, this is Apple's way of taking control of the accessory market completely. It's a pretty big market that I'm pretty sure Apple's been wanting a piece of for sometime now.
sure it's a neat idea for a dock but doesn't the dock have to be wired itself? I mean, it doesn't draw power from the sun to provide power to the portable device :P . So it would require an ac plug? If it did it would mean that a secondary plug would be required to sync data (usb).
Of course the dock would need to be wired for power - how else would it get its power that it wirelessly gives the iPhone/Pod? Data sync via USB, however, would not be required in a device that had bluetooth and/or wifi.
.... eventually going to replace the standard cable charging and syncing method that exists today, its going to get....complicated (to say the least) for 3rd party accessory manufactures.
I hope they keep the existing dock connector. For charging and data access when away from home (I don't want to carry my dock with me.... defeats the purpose).
I wonder what would happen if you stuck your tongue on it?
it vibrates
I wonder what would happen if you stuck your tongue on it?
I wonder what would happen if you stuck your tongue between the ipod and the charger?
I would images that this could cause the phone or device to be larger than they are now since transformers are not really effiecent. You will have lots of lost energy.
Transformers can be efficient, 99%+. Puting it into a device whose primary use is something else that's not conducive to this use, a portable device at that, won't be so efficient. That can be improved by using a higher induction frequency, but there's still the gap and other factors in the system that's not ideal for power transfer.
Bit of more logic analysis as to what this type of inductive charging device might actually translate to if it were to be implemented for portable devices such as an iPod or iPhone:
sure it's a neat idea for a dock but doesn't the dock have to be wired itself? I mean, it doesn't draw power from the sun to provide power to the portable device :P . So it would require an ac plug? If it did it would mean that a secondary plug would be required to sync data (usb). Well now you really have more wires hanging around your desk than if you just used a standard usb to ipod connector cable in the first place. If it didn't require an ac plug could this new dock thing really draw enough power from a usb power to power and sync a device wirlessley using this induction method? I have doubts.
Either way, if this type of docking for iPods & iPhones & other Apple portable devices are eventually going to replace the standard cable charging and syncing method that exists today, its going to get....complicated (to say the least) for 3rd party accessory manufactures. Even if the backside of such a dock still used the standard iPod connector type to attach the dock to a PC or other device, securing and portability of such a dock could be an issue for manufactures whom would like to create portable solutions. For example, you could use standard cellphone/ipod type holder for you iPod/iPhone in your car you just wont be able to charge or play audio through it.
IMO, this is Apple's way of taking control of the accessory market completely. It's a pretty big market that I'm pretty sure Apple's been wanting a piece of for sometime now.
Yeah, not even remotely new, ground-breaking, or revolutionary... My SoniCare toothbrush has been charged this way since I bought it in 1995. While it works great for my toothbrush in an environment where the electrical parts need to be protected from lots of running water, i don't think I care for the idea with regard to using it in an iPod. Maybe if I saw one, I'd think differently.
Can your toothbrush download MP3s via conductance?
I think that's the more important issue here..
I could be wrong.
-S
I wonder what would happen if you stuck your tongue on it?
You'd be 'inducted' into the hall of flames.
Ok, maybe some of you are not engineers here, but ...
Some?
If it's molded to dock with an iPod / iPhone, and nothing else, then they're defeating the whole point of an induction charger. Ideally, you should be able to buy an induction pad that you could place your camera, phone, iPod, vibrator, or whatever on.
For example:
http://www.splashpower.com/
http://www.wildcharge.com/
I'm sick of having cables and docks for an array of different devises. It's about time this ended.
http://www.splashpower.com/
http://www.wildcharge.com/
Splashpower announced their technology years ago. We're still waiting for products actually on the market. Some speculate it's vaporware. Meanwhile, they refuse to divulge the efficiency of the technology. Educated guesses put it as low as 25%. So you could be wasting 3/4 of the power put into the pad just because you find cords "inconvenient."
Transformers can be efficient, 99%+. Puting it into a device whose primary use is something else that's not conducive to this use, a portable device at that, won't be so efficient. That can be improved by using a higher induction frequency, but there's still the gap and other factors in the system that's not ideal for power transfer.
It's rare that transformers are that efficient. It's usually much lower due to capacitive leakage, etc.
They can be though, but they are very expensive.
Transformers are often used as inductors to remove high frequency components from the signal, as in power line conditioners.
Very small transformers with fine wiring can carry higher frequencies, but I've not seen any capable of carrying a direct data signal of this type. Past video frequencies the losses are too great.
I'm interested to see just how they have gotten around these problems.
True enough, but inductive charging is intrinsically less efficient than conductive charging. Basically, you're creating a second transformer, in addition to the first one in the AC adapter. Transformers always introduce losses into a system. I would have preferred a conductive system with contacts that didn't care about orientation. For instance, maybe contacts in concentric rings on the iPod, with a line of contacts on the dock such that they always align as a radius on the rings.
But energy efficiency is not a big concern for most people anyway. That's why we collectively waste lots of electricity broadcasting WiFi signals all over the place instead of using long Ethernet cables at home.
Hey! I use a long Ethernet cable rather than thoughtlessly wasting energy... but only because I can't afford that neat little Airport Express.. :-(
When are they going to upgrade that to the faster wireless standard anyway?
Splashpower announced their technology years ago. We're still waiting for products actually on the market. Some speculate it's vaporware. Meanwhile, they refuse to divulge the efficiency of the technology. Educated guesses put it as low as 25%. So you could be wasting 3/4 of the power put into the pad just because you find cords "inconvenient."
Those links were more proof of concept then anything else. Yet, the SplashPad seemingly has the same release date as the Optimus Keyboard or Duke Nukem Forever.
That said, the newly announced WildCharger supplies 90w and should go on sale this summer. The things are butt ugly, but could be built into desktops and or given some love by a good industrial design team.
If Apple decides to opt for induction charging, I'd prefer they design a solution that isn't just another proprietary dock, yet with a bigger price tag.