There might come a point in time when you eat that word.
The chances of that time ever coming are at approximately 0.00%
In English: Not Going to Happen
Not only will Apple not license off a profitable part of their business, that even potentially less profitable then it's Consumer Electronics, still has the potential to be more profitable then it is today, but the also won't increase Operations Costs just to license off a less proftiable business.
When computers are irrelevant, Apple will just kill the Mac and focus on other products. That point of time has not come yet and I don't see it coming for at least another 10-15 years at the least.
I think the Mac's got another ten years in it at the very least. I know you can never predict these things but what possible revolution could occur that would make the modern computer completely obsolete?
And if you ask me, Mac OS X will probably never be offered to third-party vendors. Not only because of the Apple/Paul Allen philosophy regarding hardware and software, but because I am hard pressed to imagine a scenario where it is profitable for Apple. The only people who would benefit from the licensing of OS X would be people on the receiving end.
I think Apple should make a version of OS X for Intel/AMD based PCs. No hacks, just a real Mac OS X for PC.
It will one day, but that will not happen for a while. Apple needs to have a higher percentage of market share first.
The reason Apple hasn't done it yet has nothing to do with hardware integration or control of, it has everything to do with the fact that MS has a monopoly on the PC market... at this time. But that is about to change.
And if you ask me, Mac OS X will probably never be offered to third-party vendors. Not only because of the Apple/Paul Allen philosophy regarding hardware and software, but because I am hard pressed to imagine a scenario where it is profitable for Apple. The only people who would benefit from the licensing of OS X would be people on the receiving end.
Apple has tried licensing already, in the mid/late 90's. It failed. It will not happen again.
It will one day, but that will not happen for a while. Apple needs to have a higher percentage of market share first.
The reason Apple hasn't done it yet has nothing to do with hardware integration or control of, it has everything to do with the fact that MS has a monopoly on the PC market... at this time. But that is about to change.
Wrong Answer. Try Again.
Hint: Hardware companies DON'T LICENSE THEIR #1 COMPETITIVE EDGE while Software guys make tons of money in licensing only. Microsoft is not an Apple and Apple is not Microsoft.
Well I've been playing devil's advocate with Slewis for several posts. Originally Murch said he couldn't see Apple licensing OSX because of support headaches and costs. I still feel that that wouldn't be the reason as Apple would require the hardware vendor to troubleshoot these problems like it works in the windows world. The main reason I see this not happening is lost hardware sales. But if hardware sales become less of Apple's revenue then it would become more likely.
Then why is Apple insisting on doing the customer support for the iPhone? Apple has learned that to get good customer support they need to do it themselves. The third party vendors will out-source the support and just shrug at the complaints just like that always do. The poor user will just bitch about that crappy Apple.
See this is where I disagree. Apple would push that onto the vendor who made the computer. If you buy a Dell and have a problem you call Dell not Microsoft. That wouldn't deter Apple.
Then why is Apple insisting on doing the customer support for the iPhone? Apple has learned that to get good customer support they need to do it themselves. The third party vendors will out-source the support and just shrug at the complaints just like that always do. The poor user will just bitch about that crappy Apple.
And without that direct contact with customers you don't get the feedback you need for your product development. Just look at Vista
Hint: Hardware companies DON'T LICENSE THEIR #1 COMPETITIVE EDGE while Software guys make tons of money in licensing only. Microsoft is not an Apple and Apple is not Microsoft.
Sebastian
Apple isn't a hardware company. It no longer is. Apple makes hardware to sell its software. It is its software that has kept it alive, make no mistake about that. The only reason Apple still has its OS locked to Apple's hardware is one, market share. That is the only reason. In essence, it's the software that makes Apple what Apple is. This brings it closer to MS than to Dell if you want to compare it as you did. Currently there isn't a big enough market share to license the OS. Apple will license its OS when it reaches that magic number in market share, you can be sure of that. Apple is a design company. It designs software and hardware integration. The hardware is off the shelf.
Apple isn't a hardware company. It no longer is. Apple makes hardware to sell it's software. It is it's software that has kept it alive, make no mistake about that. The only reason Apple still has it's OS locked to Apple's hardware is one, market share. That is the only reason. In essence, it's the software that makes Apple what Apple is. This brings it closer to MS than to Dell if you what to compare it as you did. Currently there isn't big enough market share to license the OS. Apple will license it's OS when it reaches that magic number in market share, you can be sure of that. Apple is a design company. It designs software and hardware integration. The hardware is off the shelf.
Wow.... I had to do a doubletake when I read your post. You have it wrong, their software is the selling point of the hardware. Do you know where Apple makes all of their money? I'll list a few of the products.
iPod, iPod Nano, iPod Shuffle, AIrport Express, Airport Extreme, Apple Cinema Display, Mac Pro, Macbook, iMac, Macbook Pro, Xserve, Xserve RAID, etc.
You don't buy iTunes to use an iPod for example, but iTunes is one of the selling points of the iPod. When they still sold the iSight, the main reason people bought it was to use with iChat AV. The reason people buy Macs today is for Mac OS X. You have the part about Apple's software making them what they are today, but only by selling points. The real money is the Hardware they sell so you can use that software, and because they are selling Hardware by selling software, and all of the revenue is coming mainly from the Hardware, that makes them a hardware company no matter what the reason you buy it for.
Marketshare isn't what really matters in this game. Revenue is and as long as Apple keeps the shareholders happy with an increasing supply of revenue, why turn around and screw that up by going against their very business model?
iLife? iWork? Shake? All of these sound and look nice, but as long as Apple can sell you a Mac as well it doesn't matter. Shake I believe had it's price drop like a rock when Apple bought it. I can't remember the exact price of it originally but I think it was somewhere between $5,000 and $10,000. It's price dropped to $2,000 after Apple bought it, and when Apple announced Project Phenomenon to replace Shake, they dropped the price even further to $600. Shake is just another reason to buy a Mac. Same with iLife and iWork.
Apple is not going to "beat Microsoft" by licensing their OS because they are not going to "beat Microsoft" at anything. Apple is going to make great products, Microsoft will make crappy products, the world will continue to go 'round and the shareholders will be happy.
Then why is Apple insisting on doing the customer support for the iPhone? Apple has learned that to get good customer support they need to do it themselves. The third party vendors will out-source the support and just shrug at the complaints just like that always do. The poor user will just bitch about that crappy Apple.
Because they design, make and sell it.
Is that hard to understand?
IF (and I admit it's unlikely) Apple were to license OSX, you can be assured that Apple would force support onto the computer maker. If Apple were to do this they would be admitting that they see the business has little growth potential. Why would they want to take the support calls? Does MS?
See this is where I disagree. Apple would push that onto the vendor who made the computer. If you buy a Dell and have a problem you call Dell not Microsoft. That wouldn't deter Apple.
Support costs don't just include phone support costs.
Apple would have to bend over backwards supporting thousands of obscure devices and cheap bits of hardware. The cost of developing OS X would skyrocket, the quality of it would drop, and new features would be immensely difficult to add.
Apple supporting standard PCs would ruin almost every competitive advantage OS X has over Windows.
Apple supporting standard PCs would ruin almost every competitive advantage OS X has over Windows.
This statement might be a bit over the top. MacOS X is not just a more stable version of Windows. Disconnected from hardware, Apple would no longer be able to subsidize MacOS X development with hardware sales. Its price would have to reflect the true cost of development plus a return on investment. Despite having a tremendous economies-of-scale advantage over MacOS X, Windows is currently substantially more expensive. A merchant version of MacOS X can be expected to be closer in price to Windows if not more so. If OpenSTEP is an indication, then it would be subtantially more expensive than Windows. The takeaway message is that a merchant version MacOS X would retain many advantages over Windows, but price would not be one of them.
The chances of that time ever coming are at approximately 0.00%
In English: Not Going to Happen
You can never know if it wont happen eventually, you just can never know. You can have a opinion, but there is no way of knowing for sure, despite what Apple says. If I had to guess would it ever happen at some point down the line, I would say it's pretty much 50/50 to happen eventually.
Some great opinions and facts in there. That's what I was hoping to see in response.
I love macs. I love my eMac and my girlfriend's iBook 500. The only problem is that I'm a techie and I love hardware. I love to take things apart and upgrade constantly. I've been using the same Full Tower (INWIN Q500) since 1999 or my PC. From a P200MMx through to my current Intel Core2 Duo 2.13GHz system.
The way things are going, I'll never be able to go without my PC as there are things I can't do the way I want to on a Mac that I can on my PC.
I love the compact designs of the eMac/iMac and the Laptops are great. They just can't be everything for me.
I would like to see a new PowerMac tower taht I could upgrade and didn't cost 2700$. I'd prefer to pay 799$-1199$ for a box and then use any Display I wanted.
PCs and Macs are totally different worlds. Especially with all-in-one units. They're great if that is what you want/need, but if you want expandability and ugpradability, you're out of luck.
Lets hope Apple comes out with some new hardware for its great software.
Apple is not going to "beat Microsoft" by licensing their OS because they are not going to "beat Microsoft" at anything.
This is where we disagree. Look further out into the future. There will be a point in time when Mac OS X will become the OS most will want to have. Apple will license it and make more money doing so. MS is dying.
Some great opinions and facts in there. That's what I was hoping to see in response.
I would like to see a new PowerMac tower that I could upgrade and didn't cost 2700$. I'd prefer to pay 799$-1199$ for a box and then use any Display I wanted.
Lets hope Apple comes out with some new hardware for its great software.
That is badly need as well leting you use ANY NEW ATI OR NVIDIA card with cross fire and SLI.
Out side of the U.S. when 10.5 comes out you will be able to buy it and run it on any system and apple legal will not be able to stop it.
This is where we disagree. Look further out into the future. There will be a point in time when Mac OS X will become the OS most will want to have. Apple will license it and make more money doing so. MS is dying.
I think if it happens Apple will begin by licencing to one or two PC makers, maybe Sony? Just because they licence doesn't mean they have to make it available to any PC maker, that's where I think people are missing it. They could hand pick a few PC makers and leave it at that. That might be enough to take a huge chuck from MS. They could pick the PC makers that make the best hardware, like Sony and a few others, that way they could keep their image of high quality and quality of association. If someone bought a Microsoft computer they would look like they went for the cheap one, where Apple would only allow better quality products to run their OS. Chances are if Apple did this and someone went for a Sony, they would pick an OS X Sony. Something just tells me at a point in the future what I just said wont look too strange, cause it will be a reality. That said I'd still support Apple, I'd still buy Apple hardware - it's the best.
I would like to be able to buy a motherboard and osX pack from Apple so that I can build my own macintosh for cheap... I don't really see any good reason why Apple shouldn't offer this, even if they don't/won't
You can never know if it wont happen eventually, you just can never know. You can have a opinion, but there is no way of knowing for sure, despite what Apple says. If I had to guess would it ever happen at some point down the line, I would say it's pretty much 50/50 to happen eventually.
I'll change my views on if it will happen when Apple is no longer a Hardware company.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPeon
This is where we disagree. Look further out into the future. There will be a point in time when Mac OS X will become the OS most will want to have. Apple will license it and make more money doing so. MS is dying.
Apple is not competing for the Operating System market. They are selling their own hardware using the OS as their main selling point. 2 completely different worlds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_the_dragon
Out side of the U.S. when 10.5 comes out you will be able to buy it and run it on any system and apple legal will not be able to stop it.
Why is this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archstudent
I would like to be able to buy a motherboard and osX pack from Apple so that I can build my own macintosh for cheap... I don't really see any good reason why Apple shouldn't offer this, even if they don't/won't
For you there isn't a good reason because you just want a cheap Macintosh you can build yourself. For Apple the good reason is that they don't want you to build a Mac for cheap, they want to sell you one of their units and they don't want to support any more hardware then they have to to support it.
Comments
There might come a point in time when you eat that word.
The chances of that time ever coming are at approximately 0.00%
In English: Not Going to Happen
Not only will Apple not license off a profitable part of their business, that even potentially less profitable then it's Consumer Electronics, still has the potential to be more profitable then it is today, but the also won't increase Operations Costs just to license off a less proftiable business.
When computers are irrelevant, Apple will just kill the Mac and focus on other products. That point of time has not come yet and I don't see it coming for at least another 10-15 years at the least.
Sebastian
And if you ask me, Mac OS X will probably never be offered to third-party vendors. Not only because of the Apple/Paul Allen philosophy regarding hardware and software, but because I am hard pressed to imagine a scenario where it is profitable for Apple. The only people who would benefit from the licensing of OS X would be people on the receiving end.
I think Apple should make a version of OS X for Intel/AMD based PCs. No hacks, just a real Mac OS X for PC.
It will one day, but that will not happen for a while. Apple needs to have a higher percentage of market share first.
The reason Apple hasn't done it yet has nothing to do with hardware integration or control of, it has everything to do with the fact that MS has a monopoly on the PC market... at this time. But that is about to change.
And if you ask me, Mac OS X will probably never be offered to third-party vendors. Not only because of the Apple/Paul Allen philosophy regarding hardware and software, but because I am hard pressed to imagine a scenario where it is profitable for Apple. The only people who would benefit from the licensing of OS X would be people on the receiving end.
Apple has tried licensing already, in the mid/late 90's. It failed. It will not happen again.
It will one day, but that will not happen for a while. Apple needs to have a higher percentage of market share first.
The reason Apple hasn't done it yet has nothing to do with hardware integration or control of, it has everything to do with the fact that MS has a monopoly on the PC market... at this time. But that is about to change.
Wrong Answer. Try Again.
Hint: Hardware companies DON'T LICENSE THEIR #1 COMPETITIVE EDGE
Sebastian
Well I've been playing devil's advocate with Slewis for several posts. Originally Murch said he couldn't see Apple licensing OSX because of support headaches and costs. I still feel that that wouldn't be the reason as Apple would require the hardware vendor to troubleshoot these problems like it works in the windows world. The main reason I see this not happening is lost hardware sales. But if hardware sales become less of Apple's revenue then it would become more likely.
Then why is Apple insisting on doing the customer support for the iPhone? Apple has learned that to get good customer support they need to do it themselves. The third party vendors will out-source the support and just shrug at the complaints just like that always do. The poor user will just bitch about that crappy Apple.
See this is where I disagree. Apple would push that onto the vendor who made the computer. If you buy a Dell and have a problem you call Dell not Microsoft. That wouldn't deter Apple.
Reread aresee's post immediately above.
Then why is Apple insisting on doing the customer support for the iPhone? Apple has learned that to get good customer support they need to do it themselves. The third party vendors will out-source the support and just shrug at the complaints just like that always do. The poor user will just bitch about that crappy Apple.
And without that direct contact with customers you don't get the feedback you need for your product development. Just look at Vista
Wrong Answer. Try Again.
Hint: Hardware companies DON'T LICENSE THEIR #1 COMPETITIVE EDGE
Sebastian
Apple isn't a hardware company. It no longer is. Apple makes hardware to sell its software. It is its software that has kept it alive, make no mistake about that. The only reason Apple still has its OS locked to Apple's hardware is one, market share. That is the only reason. In essence, it's the software that makes Apple what Apple is. This brings it closer to MS than to Dell if you want to compare it as you did. Currently there isn't a big enough market share to license the OS. Apple will license its OS when it reaches that magic number in market share, you can be sure of that. Apple is a design company. It designs software and hardware integration. The hardware is off the shelf.
Apple isn't a hardware company. It no longer is. Apple makes hardware to sell it's software. It is it's software that has kept it alive, make no mistake about that. The only reason Apple still has it's OS locked to Apple's hardware is one, market share. That is the only reason. In essence, it's the software that makes Apple what Apple is. This brings it closer to MS than to Dell if you what to compare it as you did. Currently there isn't big enough market share to license the OS. Apple will license it's OS when it reaches that magic number in market share, you can be sure of that. Apple is a design company. It designs software and hardware integration. The hardware is off the shelf.
Wow.... I had to do a doubletake when I read your post. You have it wrong, their software is the selling point of the hardware. Do you know where Apple makes all of their money? I'll list a few of the products.
iPod, iPod Nano, iPod Shuffle, AIrport Express, Airport Extreme, Apple Cinema Display, Mac Pro, Macbook, iMac, Macbook Pro, Xserve, Xserve RAID, etc.
You don't buy iTunes to use an iPod for example, but iTunes is one of the selling points of the iPod. When they still sold the iSight, the main reason people bought it was to use with iChat AV. The reason people buy Macs today is for Mac OS X. You have the part about Apple's software making them what they are today, but only by selling points. The real money is the Hardware they sell so you can use that software, and because they are selling Hardware by selling software, and all of the revenue is coming mainly from the Hardware, that makes them a hardware company no matter what the reason you buy it for.
Marketshare isn't what really matters in this game. Revenue is and as long as Apple keeps the shareholders happy with an increasing supply of revenue, why turn around and screw that up by going against their very business model?
iLife? iWork? Shake? All of these sound and look nice, but as long as Apple can sell you a Mac as well it doesn't matter. Shake I believe had it's price drop like a rock when Apple bought it. I can't remember the exact price of it originally but I think it was somewhere between $5,000 and $10,000. It's price dropped to $2,000 after Apple bought it, and when Apple announced Project Phenomenon to replace Shake, they dropped the price even further to $600. Shake is just another reason to buy a Mac. Same with iLife and iWork.
Apple is not going to "beat Microsoft" by licensing their OS because they are not going to "beat Microsoft" at anything. Apple is going to make great products, Microsoft will make crappy products, the world will continue to go 'round and the shareholders will be happy.
Sebastian
Then why is Apple insisting on doing the customer support for the iPhone? Apple has learned that to get good customer support they need to do it themselves. The third party vendors will out-source the support and just shrug at the complaints just like that always do. The poor user will just bitch about that crappy Apple.
Because they design, make and sell it.
Is that hard to understand?
IF (and I admit it's unlikely) Apple were to license OSX, you can be assured that Apple would force support onto the computer maker. If Apple were to do this they would be admitting that they see the business has little growth potential. Why would they want to take the support calls? Does MS?
See this is where I disagree. Apple would push that onto the vendor who made the computer. If you buy a Dell and have a problem you call Dell not Microsoft. That wouldn't deter Apple.
Support costs don't just include phone support costs.
Apple would have to bend over backwards supporting thousands of obscure devices and cheap bits of hardware. The cost of developing OS X would skyrocket, the quality of it would drop, and new features would be immensely difficult to add.
Apple supporting standard PCs would ruin almost every competitive advantage OS X has over Windows.
S...
Apple supporting standard PCs would ruin almost every competitive advantage OS X has over Windows.
This statement might be a bit over the top. MacOS X is not just a more stable version of Windows. Disconnected from hardware, Apple would no longer be able to subsidize MacOS X development with hardware sales. Its price would have to reflect the true cost of development plus a return on investment. Despite having a tremendous economies-of-scale advantage over MacOS X, Windows is currently substantially more expensive. A merchant version of MacOS X can be expected to be closer in price to Windows if not more so. If OpenSTEP is an indication, then it would be subtantially more expensive than Windows. The takeaway message is that a merchant version MacOS X would retain many advantages over Windows, but price would not be one of them.
The chances of that time ever coming are at approximately 0.00%
In English: Not Going to Happen
You can never know if it wont happen eventually, you just can never know. You can have a opinion, but there is no way of knowing for sure, despite what Apple says. If I had to guess would it ever happen at some point down the line, I would say it's pretty much 50/50 to happen eventually.
I love macs. I love my eMac and my girlfriend's iBook 500. The only problem is that I'm a techie and I love hardware. I love to take things apart and upgrade constantly. I've been using the same Full Tower (INWIN Q500) since 1999 or my PC. From a P200MMx through to my current Intel Core2 Duo 2.13GHz system.
The way things are going, I'll never be able to go without my PC as there are things I can't do the way I want to on a Mac that I can on my PC.
I love the compact designs of the eMac/iMac and the Laptops are great. They just can't be everything for me.
I would like to see a new PowerMac tower taht I could upgrade and didn't cost 2700$. I'd prefer to pay 799$-1199$ for a box and then use any Display I wanted.
PCs and Macs are totally different worlds. Especially with all-in-one units. They're great if that is what you want/need, but if you want expandability and ugpradability, you're out of luck.
Lets hope Apple comes out with some new hardware for its great software.
Apple is not going to "beat Microsoft" by licensing their OS because they are not going to "beat Microsoft" at anything.
This is where we disagree. Look further out into the future. There will be a point in time when Mac OS X will become the OS most will want to have. Apple will license it and make more money doing so. MS is dying.
Some great opinions and facts in there. That's what I was hoping to see in response.
I would like to see a new PowerMac tower that I could upgrade and didn't cost 2700$. I'd prefer to pay 799$-1199$ for a box and then use any Display I wanted.
Lets hope Apple comes out with some new hardware for its great software.
That is badly need as well leting you use ANY NEW ATI OR NVIDIA card with cross fire and SLI.
Out side of the U.S. when 10.5 comes out you will be able to buy it and run it on any system and apple legal will not be able to stop it.
This is where we disagree. Look further out into the future. There will be a point in time when Mac OS X will become the OS most will want to have. Apple will license it and make more money doing so. MS is dying.
I think if it happens Apple will begin by licencing to one or two PC makers, maybe Sony? Just because they licence doesn't mean they have to make it available to any PC maker, that's where I think people are missing it. They could hand pick a few PC makers and leave it at that. That might be enough to take a huge chuck from MS. They could pick the PC makers that make the best hardware, like Sony and a few others, that way they could keep their image of high quality and quality of association. If someone bought a Microsoft computer they would look like they went for the cheap one, where Apple would only allow better quality products to run their OS. Chances are if Apple did this and someone went for a Sony, they would pick an OS X Sony. Something just tells me at a point in the future what I just said wont look too strange, cause it will be a reality. That said I'd still support Apple, I'd still buy Apple hardware - it's the best.
You can never know if it wont happen eventually, you just can never know. You can have a opinion, but there is no way of knowing for sure, despite what Apple says. If I had to guess would it ever happen at some point down the line, I would say it's pretty much 50/50 to happen eventually.
I'll change my views on if it will happen when Apple is no longer a Hardware company.
This is where we disagree. Look further out into the future. There will be a point in time when Mac OS X will become the OS most will want to have. Apple will license it and make more money doing so. MS is dying.
Apple is not competing for the Operating System market. They are selling their own hardware using the OS as their main selling point. 2 completely different worlds.
Out side of the U.S. when 10.5 comes out you will be able to buy it and run it on any system and apple legal will not be able to stop it.
Why is this?
I would like to be able to buy a motherboard and osX pack from Apple so that I can build my own macintosh for cheap... I don't really see any good reason why Apple shouldn't offer this, even if they don't/won't
For you there isn't a good reason because you just want a cheap Macintosh you can build yourself. For Apple the good reason is that they don't want you to build a Mac for cheap, they want to sell you one of their units and they don't want to support any more hardware then they have to to support it.
Sebastian