None of the studios I work in will pay that, they'll just stick to CS2 - even the ones stupid enough to purchase Intel-based Macs.
It's important to remember that these are the full version prices. Most of us will be upgrading from Photoshop or a previous software version, and thus won't pay anywhere close to these prices.
So because a user can earn enough to pay for the software with '10 minutes' work Adobe is justified in charging extortionate prices, come on who's been programming you? If it costs so much to develop software how come anyone makes a net profit. Now tell me what would happen if ALL the overpaid professionals AND all the rest of us refused to buy CS3 we might make a difference, unfortunately that would require us to think rationally rather than as sheep!!
weird argument. the tools cost what they cost. is adobe supposed to give them away for free? if not, then how do YOU determine what percentage of your billing is fair for the software that enables you to work? you're getting what you pay for when it comes to this software package. just like you can buy cheaper tools to work on cars. if you want quality tools, you pay a quality price and you hope the tool's quality means you're more productive with them.
adobe is going to price their software exactly where they think the sweet spot of price-consciousness is for their clients. they're a corporation, that's what they do. adobe isn't supposed to be some benevolent software vending machine. they're there to maximize their profits.
honestly, if you're in the US as a working designer and you can't afford it, you probably don't need it.
Not quite. I'm talking about middle-Europe countries like Poland, Hungary or Czech Republic. These countries are still developing and to develop they need tools. Saying that in these countries there is no graphic design is some kind of ignorance. Sure there are companies that can afford this (I mean CS3) with no problem, but average salary in this industry is about $20-25 per hour. Now CS2 Premium (localized version) costs here about 1000 euro - and that's ok. I'm 22 and I'm starting in this business. Hardware and software for one designer/developer is 1 300 euro for a new iMac 20" and 1699 euro for CS3 Web Premium.
Besides you're in better position living in the US than in Europe. Everything form the US here is much more expensive.
Well you've always got one advantage over us in the states. Your women tend to be less materialistic, better looking and more fit.
The problem with the IT industry was the inflated salaries that skyrocketed so many useless business models into the stratosphere alongside salaries only to plunge back down to earth.
Problem: People got used to these overinflated salaries and the cost of living shot up as well.
Yeah, right. What about countries where reaching such earnings is practically impossible and average salary is about $930?
If you're talking about places like India where companies outsource to, it's generally the parent corporation or the investor group that pays for equipment. There aren't too many solo contractors here in India, and local companies don't make use of high-end design (it's very low-tech here).
However, there are tons of programming and design groups here that are set up by investors who cover all overhead, and then make use of the cheaper workforce. I'd say 99% of the computer industry here caters to more affluent countries, and therefore they get products like the Adobe suite (and usually their computer systems as well), payed for by the investors. So, nobody with a $930 salary needs to pay for CS3, anyway, really....
As an aside, since CS3 will have a life of about 5 years, you're looking at a cost of about $200-560 per year for the main software used by a professional, which is not at all unreasonable, and in fact quite cheap. Basically, with an Adobe suite, Microsoft Word, and a computer of some sort, there's nothing else a designer would need on the computer end to function professionally. Also, the price will of course be cheaper when bought by companies with multiple users.
Just think of the suckers who work(ed) with Avid and spend $20000-30000 more for a system that's only "current" for 2 or 3 years... Or audio professionals who are spending upwards of $100000 for a system that has to be constantly updated with expensive plugins, support for new platforms, etc. etc...
I'd say CS is a bargain for professionals, although expensive for casual users - but that's what things that Lightroom, iWeb, etc. etc. are for... I think a lot of amateurs get too caught up in needing professional-grade apps, and they're really the only ones that get screwed by the price...
So because a user can earn enough to pay for the software with '10 minutes' work Adobe is justified in charging extortionate prices, come on who's been programming you? If it costs so much to develop software how come anyone makes a net profit. Now tell me what would happen if ALL the overpaid professionals AND all the rest of us refused to buy CS3 we might make a difference, unfortunately that would require us to think rationally rather than as sheep!!
I don't understand what it is that you want. I would argue that it is you that isn't thinking rationally. For one, you are using ridiculous hyperbole in an attempt to mock actual industry figures. If you want to call them bizarrely inflated, that's your prerogative, but it's also the reality too, the business charges from many decent creative pros are going to hit that. If you want to complain about inflated wages, there are a lot of other professions that you need to scrutinize. Also, consider that that's generally not the take-home pay, that's what the business charges in order to handle expenses for a lot of overhead (rent, insurance, marketing), the take-home pay after business expenses might only be a third that.
This software is intended for people who make a living using the software, which makes it a very small cost relative to any other expense. The cost is less than the cost of a fast food meal a day for the useful life of the product. It's a small market that demands extremely complex and sophisticated software, which means that the development expenses are distributed over relatively few users. Adobe is making a profit, but it's not the obscene profit that you make it out to be, it's not that big of a market either, even if there's a lot of vocal hyping going on.
I don't understand what it is that you want. I would argue that it is you that isn't thinking rationally. For one, you are using ridiculous hyperbole in an attempt to mock actual industry figures. This software is intended for people who make a living using the software, which makes it a very small cost relative to any other expense. The cost is less than the cost of a fast food meal a day for the useful life of the product. It's a small market that demands extremely complex and sophisticated software, which means that the expenses are distributed over few users.
Also look at the other expenses that a designer has: a $2000+ computer, most with long warranties and next day on sight service contracts, a ~$700-2000 display, a drawing tablet, other software like MS Office, isp and web host -- hell a decent business class DSL line start at ~$100/Mo here, so in one year, that is $1200 in internet access costs alone!
Suddenly adobes prices don't seem so far fetched for a 2-3 year life cycele, and those are new prices, factor in the upgrades and CS is just a drop in the IT bucket for pro designers.
Oh yea, almost forgot about the $X000 printers and their $Y00 consumables...and the copper lines for voice and fax, and the laptop for road trips, and so many other things that I must be leaving out...running a small business is not cheap, but it can be very profitable.
Adobe CS is just a cost of doing business, it is as much a business app as Excel.
So it would appear that ImageReady is dead and apparantly replaced with Fireworks.
I have a problem with that.
ImageReady was bundled with Photoshop previously, and I used it for converting my Photoshop designs into webpages. Now Fireworks doesn't come in the Design Bundle, not even the Premium version. Why would the premium version bundle Dreamweaver and not Fireworks? I cant even move to the Web Bundle because it lacks InDesign.
So now it looks like I have to buy the Design Premium bundle and add Fireworks as a separate purchase. And I too have separate purchases of Flash and Dreamweaver... this is going to be a costly upgrade.
Comments
Wow, those prices ARE expensve.
None of the studios I work in will pay that, they'll just stick to CS2 - even the ones stupid enough to purchase Intel-based Macs.
It's important to remember that these are the full version prices. Most of us will be upgrading from Photoshop or a previous software version, and thus won't pay anywhere close to these prices.
So because a user can earn enough to pay for the software with '10 minutes' work Adobe is justified in charging extortionate prices, come on who's been programming you? If it costs so much to develop software how come anyone makes a net profit. Now tell me what would happen if ALL the overpaid professionals AND all the rest of us refused to buy CS3 we might make a difference, unfortunately that would require us to think rationally rather than as sheep!!
weird argument. the tools cost what they cost. is adobe supposed to give them away for free? if not, then how do YOU determine what percentage of your billing is fair for the software that enables you to work? you're getting what you pay for when it comes to this software package. just like you can buy cheaper tools to work on cars. if you want quality tools, you pay a quality price and you hope the tool's quality means you're more productive with them.
adobe is going to price their software exactly where they think the sweet spot of price-consciousness is for their clients. they're a corporation, that's what they do. adobe isn't supposed to be some benevolent software vending machine. they're there to maximize their profits.
honestly, if you're in the US as a working designer and you can't afford it, you probably don't need it.
Not quite. I'm talking about middle-Europe countries like Poland, Hungary or Czech Republic. These countries are still developing and to develop they need tools. Saying that in these countries there is no graphic design is some kind of ignorance. Sure there are companies that can afford this (I mean CS3) with no problem, but average salary in this industry is about $20-25 per hour. Now CS2 Premium (localized version) costs here about 1000 euro - and that's ok. I'm 22 and I'm starting in this business. Hardware and software for one designer/developer is 1 300 euro for a new iMac 20" and 1699 euro for CS3 Web Premium.
Besides you're in better position living in the US than in Europe. Everything form the US here is much more expensive.
Well you've always got one advantage over us in the states. Your women tend to be less materialistic, better looking and more fit.
The problem with the IT industry was the inflated salaries that skyrocketed so many useless business models into the stratosphere alongside salaries only to plunge back down to earth.
Problem: People got used to these overinflated salaries and the cost of living shot up as well.
Time to conserve.
Yeah, right. What about countries where reaching such earnings is practically impossible and average salary is about $930?
If you're talking about places like India where companies outsource to, it's generally the parent corporation or the investor group that pays for equipment. There aren't too many solo contractors here in India, and local companies don't make use of high-end design (it's very low-tech here).
However, there are tons of programming and design groups here that are set up by investors who cover all overhead, and then make use of the cheaper workforce. I'd say 99% of the computer industry here caters to more affluent countries, and therefore they get products like the Adobe suite (and usually their computer systems as well), payed for by the investors. So, nobody with a $930 salary needs to pay for CS3, anyway, really....
As an aside, since CS3 will have a life of about 5 years, you're looking at a cost of about $200-560 per year for the main software used by a professional, which is not at all unreasonable, and in fact quite cheap. Basically, with an Adobe suite, Microsoft Word, and a computer of some sort, there's nothing else a designer would need on the computer end to function professionally. Also, the price will of course be cheaper when bought by companies with multiple users.
Just think of the suckers who work(ed) with Avid and spend $20000-30000 more for a system that's only "current" for 2 or 3 years... Or audio professionals who are spending upwards of $100000 for a system that has to be constantly updated with expensive plugins, support for new platforms, etc. etc...
I'd say CS is a bargain for professionals, although expensive for casual users - but that's what things that Lightroom, iWeb, etc. etc. are for... I think a lot of amateurs get too caught up in needing professional-grade apps, and they're really the only ones that get screwed by the price...
So because a user can earn enough to pay for the software with '10 minutes' work Adobe is justified in charging extortionate prices, come on who's been programming you? If it costs so much to develop software how come anyone makes a net profit. Now tell me what would happen if ALL the overpaid professionals AND all the rest of us refused to buy CS3 we might make a difference, unfortunately that would require us to think rationally rather than as sheep!!
I don't understand what it is that you want. I would argue that it is you that isn't thinking rationally. For one, you are using ridiculous hyperbole in an attempt to mock actual industry figures. If you want to call them bizarrely inflated, that's your prerogative, but it's also the reality too, the business charges from many decent creative pros are going to hit that. If you want to complain about inflated wages, there are a lot of other professions that you need to scrutinize. Also, consider that that's generally not the take-home pay, that's what the business charges in order to handle expenses for a lot of overhead (rent, insurance, marketing), the take-home pay after business expenses might only be a third that.
This software is intended for people who make a living using the software, which makes it a very small cost relative to any other expense. The cost is less than the cost of a fast food meal a day for the useful life of the product. It's a small market that demands extremely complex and sophisticated software, which means that the development expenses are distributed over relatively few users. Adobe is making a profit, but it's not the obscene profit that you make it out to be, it's not that big of a market either, even if there's a lot of vocal hyping going on.
I don't understand what it is that you want. I would argue that it is you that isn't thinking rationally. For one, you are using ridiculous hyperbole in an attempt to mock actual industry figures. This software is intended for people who make a living using the software, which makes it a very small cost relative to any other expense. The cost is less than the cost of a fast food meal a day for the useful life of the product. It's a small market that demands extremely complex and sophisticated software, which means that the expenses are distributed over few users.
Also look at the other expenses that a designer has: a $2000+ computer, most with long warranties and next day on sight service contracts, a ~$700-2000 display, a drawing tablet, other software like MS Office, isp and web host -- hell a decent business class DSL line start at ~$100/Mo here, so in one year, that is $1200 in internet access costs alone!
Suddenly adobes prices don't seem so far fetched for a 2-3 year life cycele, and those are new prices, factor in the upgrades and CS is just a drop in the IT bucket for pro designers.
Oh yea, almost forgot about the $X000 printers and their $Y00 consumables...and the copper lines for voice and fax, and the laptop for road trips, and so many other things that I must be leaving out...running a small business is not cheap, but it can be very profitable.
Adobe CS is just a cost of doing business, it is as much a business app as Excel.
Please note that European pricing tends to be much higher than U.S. pricing.
You had to rub it in, didn't you... ;-)
So it would appear that ImageReady is dead and apparantly replaced with Fireworks.
I have a problem with that.
ImageReady was bundled with Photoshop previously, and I used it for converting my Photoshop designs into webpages. Now Fireworks doesn't come in the Design Bundle, not even the Premium version. Why would the premium version bundle Dreamweaver and not Fireworks? I cant even move to the Web Bundle because it lacks InDesign.
So now it looks like I have to buy the Design Premium bundle and add Fireworks as a separate purchase. And I too have separate purchases of Flash and Dreamweaver... this is going to be a costly upgrade.
i agree. i love ImageReady