I strongly disagree with. First if the target audience is people who want to buy video content from the iTS, then it's not a mass market product to start with.
It's not. But it's intended to become one--and sending down the route where everyone's AppleTV is different in operation would be bad in that case. With computers that's a given--you run the apps you need!--but this is an appliance. Granted, for some, that makes it less appealing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius
Second, I liken the AppleTV to the iPod. The iPod's primary function is to play music and some video content. The AppleTV's primary function is to play video and some music content. But the iPod has an entire industry of peripherals for it: voice recorders, am/fm tuners, alarm clock docks, etc. This would be the same thing as extensions/plug-ins for the AppleTV.
Not the same: the iPod is reliable because it's software is fixed (unless you hack it as I have enoyed doing ) You're comparing iPod hardware accessories to AppleTV software additions. Additions that change the function and control of the device, add menus, or whatever. The iPod doesn't allow that either.
I just hope Apple doesn't screw it up trying to lock it to just iTunes Store Purchases.
Well they didn't muck it up on their first attempt to lock it to the store so I doubt they are going to if they make further attempts.
Does anyone really think that the people who have the technical expertise to create this thing from scratch wouldn't know intimately how it could be hacked and tweaked?
Any of those hackers who think they are getting one over Apples engineers are simply kidding themselves.
It's not. But it's intended to become one--and sending down the route where everyone's AppleTV is different in operation would be bad in that case. With computers that's a given--you run the apps you need!--but this is an appliance. Granted, for some, that makes it less appealing.
Not the same: the iPod is reliable because it's software is fixed (unless you hack it as I have enoyed doing ) You're comparing iPod hardware accessories to AppleTV software additions. Additions that change the function and control of the device, add menus, or whatever. The iPod doesn't allow that either.
I don't see the difference. The AppleTV software would essentially be fixed. It's really no different whether the additional features come from a hardware device or a software package. To me the difference between a hardware add-on and a software add-on is semantic. The hooks to allow the hardware to function have to be in the device's software to begin with like the Apple Radio Remote. It adds a menu when it's plugged into the iPod. The basic functionality of the device remains the same it's just be expandable as people desired just like the iPod.
If the plug-ins were only available via the iTS, Apple would have quality control to make sure they met a certain criteria and were thus non-destructive. Where's the harm of instead of having just Music, Movies, and TV (or whatever the main AppleTV choices are), it added a YouTube icon to the group? If you wanted it, you pay the $4.99 at the iTS and if you don't, you don't.
No harm if Apple controls and tests the add-ons, as they do with iPod games and I expect with the iPhone.
If the AppleTV were not "closed"--if ANYONE could officially make add-ons (like they can for a Mac) then the problem comes up.
Software add-ons ARE different from hardware accessories for iPod: software can make your machine crash. iPod accessories don't do that, while Mac software does
No harm if Apple controls and tests the add-ons, as they do with iPod games and I expect with the iPhone.
If the AppleTV were not "closed"--if ANYONE could officially make add-ons (like they can for a Mac) then the problem comes up.
Software add-ons ARE different from hardware accessories for iPod: software can make your machine crash. iPod accessories don't do that, while Mac software does
The platform doesn't need to be "closed" to do this. You can specify an API, test that the software conforms to the API on install, and run the process under a restricted account. As long as you manage the install mechanism and have good security, you're all set.
Hardware add-ons can make your iPod crash ... it just wouldn't be profitable to mass produce hardware that does it. I could probably even design a hardware add-on that'd totally fry an iPod, but I doubt that'd be a good selling point.
It's not overpriced if you want what it does. Most people don't--I don't--but it seems to be fairly priced.
I was talking about for "hacking". You can buy a low end, expandable computer for the price of this that'd blow the cover off of Apple TV specs-wise. It wouldn't be a Mac, but if you're just planning on hacking it ... who cares. For hacking, Apple TV's only advantages over a cheap PC for hacking are small, quiet, and outputs for HDTV. Of course, you can also grab an old Xbox for <$100 and be in about the same spot.
Once the novelty wears off and you can pick up one for $100-$150, then the hackers will be interested.
For most people these hacks don't matter. They just want something that 'just works' and does what the product is described as being able to do. Limitations of what tools they can use to serve and access is not much of an issue.
On the other hand you have people who want to prove what can be done with the hardware at hand. Whether it is useful ot not is always debatable. Reasons to hack the Apple TV include:
- not limiting the content server to a Mac or PC running iTunes
- being able to serve content in any format they wish, not just those officially supported by iTunes
- being able to add their own look to the system
The solutions aren't always elegant, or easy to install, but they do usually end up doing something that ends up being copied to some extent. Heck, if if some of these hacks encourages Apple to improve the official functionality of the Apple TV, then all the better
As to an extensible API, HTTP with XML pages might go some way.
The Apple TV has the potential to be a great Trojan horse : if popular, it'll get Mac OS in the house of a great number of people. Users will associate Mac OS with "something that never freezes" (as opposed to W). Users will get used to the interface and will look forward to using it even more. Users will want to get a Mac... or a Leopard licence maybe ?
The Apple TV has the potential to be a great Trojan horse : if popular, it'll get Mac OS in the house of a great number of people. Users will associate Mac OS with "something that never freezes" (as opposed to W). Users will get used to the interface and will look forward to using it even more. Users will want to get a Mac... or a Leopard licence maybe ?
I agree with that. I think it is going to be the same with the iPhone as well. I think the key with the later is going to be the supply levels in particular.
The Apple TV has the potential to be a great Trojan horse : if popular, it'll get Mac OS in the house of a great number of people. Users will associate Mac OS with "something that never freezes" (as opposed to W). Users will get used to the interface and will look forward to using it even more. Users will want to get a Mac... or a Leopard licence maybe ?
Come on, that's ridiculous. You don't get any sense of the oSX operating system with Atv...
It's more like Front Row- there's no Finder (thank god) no standard desktop, no keyboard, no mouse. You don't run any programs from it either. Saying it's great because it doesn't crash is like saying I should get a VAIO because my Sony Clock Radio never crashes...
You're stretching.
Incidentally, Atv, will only end up in existing Mac owners' houses anyways... It takes a special sort of Mac fan to buy one at this point, until they make it worth the money and hassle.
Come on, that's ridiculous. You don't get any sense of the oSX operating system with Atv...
It's more like Front Row- there's no Finder (thank god) no standard desktop, no keyboard, no mouse. You don't run any programs from it either. Saying it's great because it doesn't crash is like saying I should get a VAIO because my Sony Clock Radio never crashes...
You're stretching.
Incidentally, Atv, will only end up in existing Mac owners' houses anyways... It takes a special sort of Mac fan to buy one at this point, until they make it worth the money and hassle.
I don't see anyone besides Mac owners buying this.
Come on, that's ridiculous. You don't get any sense of the oSX operating system with Atv...
It's more like Front Row- there's no Finder (thank god) no standard desktop, no keyboard, no mouse. You don't run any programs from it either. Saying it's great because it doesn't crash is like saying I should get a VAIO because my Sony Clock Radio never crashes...
I think you are right. I expect it will be overwhelmingly Apple owners who buy this at first.
However, I fault your logic above. At this point, it is hard to deny the "halo effect". The iPod doesn't really give you a true sense of the Mac OS, but because it worked exceedingly well it made people feel better about the idea of owning a Mac. Similarly, I believe that *if* the ATV were a big crossover hit, it might help lead people to buying Macs, regardless of whether truly gives a sense of the Mac OS.
That said, I don't expect it to do that because I don't expect it to be a big crossover hit. At least not without (sorry Steve) cheep, good quality rentals.
Comments
I strongly disagree with. First if the target audience is people who want to buy video content from the iTS, then it's not a mass market product to start with.
It's not. But it's intended to become one--and sending down the route where everyone's AppleTV is different in operation would be bad in that case. With computers that's a given--you run the apps you need!--but this is an appliance. Granted, for some, that makes it less appealing.
Second, I liken the AppleTV to the iPod. The iPod's primary function is to play music and some video content. The AppleTV's primary function is to play video and some music content. But the iPod has an entire industry of peripherals for it: voice recorders, am/fm tuners, alarm clock docks, etc. This would be the same thing as extensions/plug-ins for the AppleTV.
Not the same: the iPod is reliable because it's software is fixed (unless you hack it as I have enoyed doing
The geek squad members should not expect this product to be some sort of über-box. It's not for you. It's for the rest of us.
Precisely. The hobbyist hacker market seems to be quite excited by apple TV.
Many people who would not think of buying one for its marketed purpose
are buying them just to experiment/play with.
The relative ease of hacking makes me wonder if Apple Inc is deliberately
trying to expand into this market.
or see what is in your fridge.
Report to your nearest gym - IMMEDIATELY!
I just hope Apple doesn't screw it up trying to lock it to just iTunes Store Purchases.
Well they didn't muck it up on their first attempt to lock it to the store so I doubt they are going to if they make further attempts.
Does anyone really think that the people who have the technical expertise to create this thing from scratch wouldn't know intimately how it could be hacked and tweaked?
Any of those hackers who think they are getting one over Apples engineers are simply kidding themselves.
The first thing ATV needs to do above all is work easily and reliably as advertised. Once that is assured Apple can begin adding bells and whistles.
As opposed to the way MS does things. That is to add every bit of functionality they can think of half of it doesn't work properly or very easily.
Precisely. The hobbyist hacker market seems to be quite excited by apple TV.
Many people who would not think of buying one for its marketed purpose
are buying them just to experiment/play with.
The relative ease of hacking makes me wonder if Apple Inc is deliberately
trying to expand into this market.
I really don't think Apple is actively trying to expand into the "hacker"market. Even if it was big enough to be worth the bother, which i doubt.
It's not. But it's intended to become one--and sending down the route where everyone's AppleTV is different in operation would be bad in that case. With computers that's a given--you run the apps you need!--but this is an appliance. Granted, for some, that makes it less appealing.
Not the same: the iPod is reliable because it's software is fixed (unless you hack it as I have enoyed doing
I don't see the difference. The AppleTV software would essentially be fixed. It's really no different whether the additional features come from a hardware device or a software package. To me the difference between a hardware add-on and a software add-on is semantic. The hooks to allow the hardware to function have to be in the device's software to begin with like the Apple Radio Remote. It adds a menu when it's plugged into the iPod. The basic functionality of the device remains the same it's just be expandable as people desired just like the iPod.
If the plug-ins were only available via the iTS, Apple would have quality control to make sure they met a certain criteria and were thus non-destructive. Where's the harm of instead of having just Music, Movies, and TV (or whatever the main AppleTV choices are), it added a YouTube icon to the group? If you wanted it, you pay the $4.99 at the iTS and if you don't, you don't.
If the AppleTV were not "closed"--if ANYONE could officially make add-ons (like they can for a Mac) then the problem comes up.
Software add-ons ARE different from hardware accessories for iPod: software can make your machine crash. iPod accessories don't do that, while Mac software does
There's no practical reason to do any of this. At least, I can't think of any.
I can think of one if you wanna cheat apple out of money or something. This goes out to everyone that claims a mac mini is better:
1. Own an intel mac mini (because appletv's os is intel only)
2. Buy appletv
3. Have external hd
4. Copy appletv's os to external and hack it
5. Attachit to the mini
6. Return appletv to store
And now you've got a mini that can act as a computer and as a free appletv by booting from it's external drive.
No harm if Apple controls and tests the add-ons, as they do with iPod games and I expect with the iPhone.
If the AppleTV were not "closed"--if ANYONE could officially make add-ons (like they can for a Mac) then the problem comes up.
Software add-ons ARE different from hardware accessories for iPod: software can make your machine crash. iPod accessories don't do that, while Mac software does
The platform doesn't need to be "closed" to do this. You can specify an API, test that the software conforms to the API on install, and run the process under a restricted account. As long as you manage the install mechanism and have good security, you're all set.
Hardware add-ons can make your iPod crash ... it just wouldn't be profitable to mass produce hardware that does it. I could probably even design a hardware add-on that'd totally fry an iPod, but I doubt that'd be a good selling point.
It's not overpriced if you want what it does. Most people don't--I don't--but it seems to be fairly priced.
I was talking about for "hacking". You can buy a low end, expandable computer for the price of this that'd blow the cover off of Apple TV specs-wise. It wouldn't be a Mac, but if you're just planning on hacking it ... who cares. For hacking, Apple TV's only advantages over a cheap PC for hacking are small, quiet, and outputs for HDTV. Of course, you can also grab an old Xbox for <$100 and be in about the same spot.
Once the novelty wears off and you can pick up one for $100-$150, then the hackers will be interested.
On the other hand you have people who want to prove what can be done with the hardware at hand. Whether it is useful ot not is always debatable. Reasons to hack the Apple TV include:
- not limiting the content server to a Mac or PC running iTunes
- being able to serve content in any format they wish, not just those officially supported by iTunes
- being able to add their own look to the system
The solutions aren't always elegant, or easy to install, but they do usually end up doing something that ends up being copied to some extent. Heck, if if some of these hacks encourages Apple to improve the official functionality of the Apple TV, then all the better
As to an extensible API, HTTP with XML pages might go some way.
The Apple TV has the potential to be a great Trojan horse : if popular, it'll get Mac OS in the house of a great number of people. Users will associate Mac OS with "something that never freezes" (as opposed to W). Users will get used to the interface and will look forward to using it even more. Users will want to get a Mac... or a Leopard licence maybe ?
I agree with that. I think it is going to be the same with the iPhone as well. I think the key with the later is going to be the supply levels in particular.
The Apple TV has the potential to be a great Trojan horse : if popular, it'll get Mac OS in the house of a great number of people. Users will associate Mac OS with "something that never freezes" (as opposed to W). Users will get used to the interface and will look forward to using it even more. Users will want to get a Mac... or a Leopard licence maybe ?
Come on, that's ridiculous. You don't get any sense of the oSX operating system with Atv...
It's more like Front Row- there's no Finder (thank god) no standard desktop, no keyboard, no mouse. You don't run any programs from it either. Saying it's great because it doesn't crash is like saying I should get a VAIO because my Sony Clock Radio never crashes...
You're stretching.
Incidentally, Atv, will only end up in existing Mac owners' houses anyways... It takes a special sort of Mac fan to buy one at this point, until they make it worth the money and hassle.
Come on, that's ridiculous. You don't get any sense of the oSX operating system with Atv...
It's more like Front Row- there's no Finder (thank god) no standard desktop, no keyboard, no mouse. You don't run any programs from it either. Saying it's great because it doesn't crash is like saying I should get a VAIO because my Sony Clock Radio never crashes...
You're stretching.
Incidentally, Atv, will only end up in existing Mac owners' houses anyways... It takes a special sort of Mac fan to buy one at this point, until they make it worth the money and hassle.
I don't see anyone besides Mac owners buying this.
**best post**
I don't see anyone besides Mac owners buying this.
lots of modders interested in this. 'nix kinda people. cause its fun and has nice ports.
Come on, that's ridiculous. You don't get any sense of the oSX operating system with Atv...
It's more like Front Row- there's no Finder (thank god) no standard desktop, no keyboard, no mouse. You don't run any programs from it either. Saying it's great because it doesn't crash is like saying I should get a VAIO because my Sony Clock Radio never crashes...
I think you are right. I expect it will be overwhelmingly Apple owners who buy this at first.
However, I fault your logic above. At this point, it is hard to deny the "halo effect". The iPod doesn't really give you a true sense of the Mac OS, but because it worked exceedingly well it made people feel better about the idea of owning a Mac. Similarly, I believe that *if* the ATV were a big crossover hit, it might help lead people to buying Macs, regardless of whether truly gives a sense of the Mac OS.
That said, I don't expect it to do that because I don't expect it to be a big crossover hit. At least not without (sorry Steve) cheep, good quality rentals.