Will Apple ever make this machine?

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  • Reply 241 of 362
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rickag View Post


    Well that Open Letter to Steve Jobs on digg's website is up to 3541 duggs.



    At least those of us that have posted our desire for a mythical xMac can console ourselves that we're not alone, and not the "few pot bangers" that has been suggested here and on other threads.





    http://www.digg.com/news/popular/24hours



    I Support Kevin Rose and Digg



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    Open Letter To Steve Jobs: Please Build The Missing Mac



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    Vegan Parents Starve Baby to Death on Soy Milk/Apple Juice Diet



    School Dean Sends Home Letter to Students Filled with Spelling Errors [PIC]



    You know there was a time when Digg was cool and dugg articles were...I dunno...relevant...interesting? Finding 3000 other anonymous folks that think xMacs are cool doesn't seem much harder than finding 3000 other anonymous folks think that criminally stupid vegan parents or spelling errors from a school letter is important...



    When you get to 100K Apple might take note.



    Vinea
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  • Reply 242 of 362
    benroethigbenroethig Posts: 2,782member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by snoopy View Post


    Me thinks you exaggerate too greatly. Most of us who want a prosumer tower would be happy with a single Xeon Mac Pro, except for price. It's been mentioned over and over that a Mac Pro has excess cost built into it, in the form of a more expensive CPU, more costly RAM, four HDD bays when two would be enough, and an overkill power supply for a single CPU mini tower.



    If Apple made a prosumer tower and priced it with typical Apple margins, it would provide a lot more value for Mac users who only need and/or want a prosumer tower. Why should we pay for a workstation just to get 3 PCIe cards, two HDDs and two optical drives? If Apple offered a mini tower, fewer people would point to what Dell, IBM, HP, etc. offer. And yes, it will increase Mac market share.



    Does Apple know something that we don't? No, but they're in denial.







    To put it in perspective

    CPU list prices

    2.4ghz conroe: $316

    2.33ghz woodcrest: $455



    Motherboard prices (Newegg)

    Intel P965motherboard: $110

    5000X motherboard: $400



    1GB 667 memory (2x512mb)

    DIMM $63

    FB-DIMM $120 on sale ($170 regular price)



    Power supply:

    Coolermaster 500W: $100

    1000W: $350



    Total:

    Core 2 Duo: $589

    Xeon: $1325

    Difference: $736 or 2.25 times the component price. I don't know what kind of discounts Apple is getting, but I can bet nowhere near that kind of price difference. Going with workstation components would only add a lot of uncescesary cost on to the user for a machine that does performs sightly slower. That doesn't seem like that good of a deal to me.
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  • Reply 243 of 362
    benroethigbenroethig Posts: 2,782member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post


    No...its a lot more like whining that you can't get a 5 series BMW for Chevy Malibu prices because BMW doesn't make a low end sedan.



    Vinea



    Huh? If you object having to pay $1000 in extra workstation parts just to get the same capability as a high end PC, you are cheap? This platform is not reserved only for the super wealthy.
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  • Reply 244 of 362
    benroethigbenroethig Posts: 2,782member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post


    Both prices are from crucial.







    Which means the 4GB set for the Mac Pro from Crucial is the same price.



    So much for insanely expensive.



    And no, no-name ram from new egg is not the same as comparing ram from crucial. The price delta is a $100.



    Vinea



    c-r-u-c-i-a-l, let's see here: $111 2x 1GB
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  • Reply 245 of 362
    rickagrickag Posts: 1,626member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post


    No...its a lot more like whining that you can't get a 5 series BMW for Chevy Malibu prices because BMW doesn't make a low end sedan.



    Vinea



    No it's not and your argument above is silly. Quit acting like Apple makes BMW's, they make mid to upper end consumer computers with the same insides as the other mid to upper end manufacturers, except they make AIO and Mac mini that are less flexible. They get their parts, cpus, harddrives, video chips, wireless chips etc. from the same manufacturers as Dell and HP.
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  • Reply 246 of 362
    rickagrickag Posts: 1,626member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post


    To put it in perspective

    CPU list prices

    2.4ghz conroe: $316

    2.33ghz woodcrest: $455



    Motherboard prices (Newegg)

    Intel P965motherboard: $110

    5000X motherboard: $400



    1GB 667 memory (2x512mb)

    DIMM $63

    FB-DIMM $120 on sale ($170 regular price)



    Power supply:

    Coolermaster 500W: $100

    1000W: $350



    Total:

    Core 2 Duo: $589

    Xeon: $1325

    Difference: $736 or 2.25 times the component price. I don't know what kind of discounts Apple is getting, but I can bet nowhere near that kind of price difference. Going with workstation components would only add a lot of uncescesary cost on to the user for a machine that does performs sightly slower. That doesn't seem like that good of a deal to me.



    Your response above is so logical as to be painful. Why people don't get it is beyond all rational thought.



    And the digg article is now over 3600 and increasing at what appears to be ~20 every 5 minutes or so.
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  • Reply 247 of 362
    benroethigbenroethig Posts: 2,782member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rickag View Post


    Your response above is so logical as to be painful. Why people don't get it is beyond all rational thought.



    And the digg article is now over 3600 and increasing at what appears to be ~20 every 5 minutes or so.



    I would also like to point out that the products listed are not some bargain base whitebox stuff, but from quality makers like intel, crucial, Coolmaster, and Tyan.
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  • Reply 248 of 362
    snoopysnoopy Posts: 1,901member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rickag View Post




    Your response above is so logical as to be painful. Why people don't get it is beyond all rational thought.






    I'll second that.



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  • Reply 249 of 362
    snoopysnoopy Posts: 1,901member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LoganT View Post




    So far it looks like 1077 people would like it.



    http://www.digg.com/apple/Open_Lette...he_Missing_Mac




    From the description, it is what some have called a Mac Super Mini. It, along with a Mac Mini Tower, is what Apple needs in its product line. If Apple would make the Super Mini, the current Mini would not survive. Folks would get better performance and features for the equivalent price.



    I'll put in another plug for making it only a little taller than a current Mini, but making it wider and slightly deeper. I'd like to set my LCD display on top of it.



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  • Reply 250 of 362
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post


    Huh? If you object having to pay $1000 in extra workstation parts just to get the same capability as a high end PC, you are cheap? This platform is not reserved only for the super wealthy.



    Mmm...you mean like super wealthy high school kids that can clear $3K in a summer flipping burgers to get an uber gaming rig (or a really beat up car)?



    Those super wealthy folks?



    But yes, Apple is a premium brand and more pricey. Not Gulfstream IV pricey though.



    Vinea
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  • Reply 251 of 362
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post


    OSX is worth a lot, but it isn't worth twice the price of a high end PC.



    Because $2499 is double the price over $1499? And the Mac Pro will be faster than the "high end" PC you listed with faster clock speed and double the cores.



    Or you can get a mini for $600.



    Vinea
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  • Reply 252 of 362
    benroethigbenroethig Posts: 2,782member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post


    Mmm...you mean like super wealthy high school kids that can clear $3K in a summer flipping burgers to get an uber gaming rig (or a really beat up car)?



    Those super wealthy folks?



    But yes, Apple is a premium brand and more pricey. Not Gulfstream IV pricey though.



    Vinea



    Those high school kids don't have bills to pay like rent/mortage, college loans, auto loan, health insurance, car insurance, food, fuel, water, heat, electrical, cable, phone, cell phone, etc. It would really go up if I had kids. ...and if you want a tower, it's more like Gulfstream V
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  • Reply 253 of 362
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rickag View Post


    No it's not and your argument above is silly.



    Its silly because comparing the Mac Pro to a semi is less silly? Or simply that you disagree.



    Quote:

    Quit acting like Apple makes BMW's, they make mid to upper end consumer computers with the same insides as the other mid to upper end manufacturers, except they make AIO and Mac mini that are less flexible. They get their parts, cpus, harddrives, video chips, wireless chips etc. from the same manufacturers as Dell and HP.



    And you say I'm negative about Apple. Yes, I equate Apple to BMW in terms of quality, attention to detail and performance. BMW offers a "driving experience" as Apple offers a "computing experience".



    There will always be folks that whine that BMW doesn't offer a car like the WRX that, spec wise, blows the doors off a BMW and is cheaper.



    The Mac Pro is powerhouse with the fastest clocked Xeons available on custom EFI motherboards in an elegant case running a superbly tuned operating system.



    Damn straight Apple is the BMW or Porsche of the computing world. Power with refinement. If you guys don't even believe that we really have no common ground.



    Vinea
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  • Reply 254 of 362
    benroethigbenroethig Posts: 2,782member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post


    Its silly because comparing the Mac Pro to a semi is less silly? Or simply that you disagree.



    Vinea



    The Mac Pro is a heavy lifter, it's a lot like a commercial duty truck.
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  • Reply 255 of 362
    rickagrickag Posts: 1,626member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post


    Its silly because comparing the Mac Pro to a semi is less silly? Or simply that you disagree.







    And you say I'm negative about Apple. Yes, I equate Apple to BMW in terms of quality, attention to detail and performance. BMW offers a "driving experience" as Apple offers a "computing experience".



    There will always be folks that whine that BMW doesn't offer a car like the WRX that, spec wise, blows the doors off a BMW and is cheaper.



    The Mac Pro is powerhouse with the fastest clocked Xeons available on custom EFI motherboards in an elegant case running a superbly tuned operating system.



    Damn straight Apple is the BMW or Porsche of the computing world. Power with refinement. If you guys don't even believe that we really have no common ground.



    Vinea



    I'm not negative about Apple, heck I have stock in the company, but I'm not blind and I can see failings in Apple.

    You're negativity revolves around what Apple can't do. My optimism revolves around what Apple can do, but for reasons neither you nor I know, seems that Apple at present is unwilling to do.

    It's silly because you keep using the word whining. It's silly because you keep saying the iMac and Mac mini can be compared to BMWs, when in fact any Windows computer with the same hardware features can be considered BMWs. It's the software that keeps many of us staying with Apple. Many of us do appreciate the build quality of Apple computers, we just object to the narrow focus of Apple's consumer line and are optimistic that Apple could indeed increase market share without sacrificing margins to accomplish this.



    The fact that the iMac and Mac mini place a very large part of their focus on desktop space does not make them BMWs and to make this assertion is silly.
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  • Reply 256 of 362
    benroethigbenroethig Posts: 2,782member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rickag View Post


    I'm not negative about Apple, heck I have stock in the company, but I'm not blind and I can see failings in Apple.

    You're negativity revolves around what Apple can't do. My optimism revolves around what Apple can do, but for reasons neither you nor I know, seems that Apple at present is unwilling to do.

    It's silly because you keep using the word whining. It's silly because you keep saying the iMac and Mac mini can be compared to BMWs, when in fact any Windows computer with the same hardware features can be considered BMWs. It's the software that keeps many of us staying with Apple. Many of us do appreciate the build quality of Apple computers, we just object to the narrow focus of Apple's consumer line and are optimistic that Apple could indeed increase market share without sacrificing margins to accomplish this.



    The fact that the iMac and Mac mini place a very large part of their focus on desktop space does not make them BMWs and to make this assertion is silly.



    In fact, a better designed Mac Mini and a Core 2 Tower with the same margins as Apple's other machines would only enhance the profits as more would be inclined to buy them.
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  • Reply 257 of 362
    snoopysnoopy Posts: 1,901member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post


    In fact, a better designed Mac Mini and a Core 2 Tower with the same margins as Apple's other machines would only enhance the profits as more would be inclined to buy them.



    And I, for one, will buy on eBay until Apple does offer such models as these.



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  • Reply 258 of 362
    snoopysnoopy Posts: 1,901member
    I just checked. Over 4000 responses to digg.com open letter to Steve. By the way, I'm not too bright when it comes to some problems with applications. Whenever I go to digg.com I get a spinning beach ball for a long time. The quickest solution is to force quit Safari and relaunch it. Any suggestions?







    Both Safari and Camino have this problem, but not FireFox. Well, maybe FireFox will soon be my browser of choice.
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  • Reply 259 of 362
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,717member
    There is simply NO reason to use a Xeon in a single processor machine.



    The Xeon is specifically designed for machines with two or more processors. The extra cost doesn't add to speed, or much anything else in a single processor machine, just to a higher cost. The high end Conroe's have the same bus speeds as well, so you don't gain anything there either.



    While I have nothing against choice, and if manufacturers wish to offer them, that's fine by me, but I don't see any good reason for buying one.



    But, Apple could offer a machine for $999 with one Conroe, two memory slots, two card slots, spaced apart so that a double slot space graphics card could be fit. and many of the other features they have now.



    A machine like that can use a 425 watt power supply instead of the 980 watt one, which would be enough for even the highest end video card, with enough left over for everything else. It can have room for two HD, and one external drive slot.



    Apple can produce a machine like this. It's only because they don't want to that they don't.



    How many times have we gone over this?



    Perhaps it's time for Apple to discontinue their 17" iMac, except for schools, and offer these instead. There is also no excuse for Apple's lack of presence in the low cost monitor business.



    The stubbornness of Apple here is absurd. It's difficult to believe that they don't see all of the sales they are losing in monitors because they refuse to compete in the biggest monitor segment. I know PC people who would not hesitate to buy a $200 17", or a $350 22" from Apple. They don't have to be in aluminum, they can be in aluminum colored plastic.



    How many people buying a Mini who don't have a computer already, or have an old crt they want to get rid of, will buy a current Apple monitor? Why should all of these other companies get those sales?



    It makes no sense.



    A mini tower would cover a lot of ground.



    The truth is that if Apple does come out with these machines and monitors, and it does impact on iMac sales, what's the difference?



    Just how many iMacs is Apple selling a year anyway? Not all that many. There is pretty much no growth there. They should be willing to try other avenues.



    If they kept the 24", and possibly the 20", with the 17" reserved for schools, insomuch as few people will spend that much for a 17" machine for home these days, at that price, particularly for an all-in-one, they might not lose much in sales at all.



    These machines wouldn't be competing directly with the higher end iMacs, which are being bought specifically because they are all-in-one's, for a fashion statement, as much as for any other reason.



    The box could go for $799 to perhaps $1,099. Any higher, and they might begin to compete too much with the iMacs, though, again, it might not matter, because those are very likely two entirely different buying groups.



    Pro's on the lower rungs of the ladder would prefer these machines as well. As they couldn't afford Apple's Mac Pro's, there would be little, if no, impact there.



    The machine impacted the most would possibly be the high end Mini. But the Mini's don't seem to be selling that well anyway.
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  • Reply 260 of 362
    benroethigbenroethig Posts: 2,782member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    There is simply NO reason to use a Xeon in a single processor machine.



    The Xeon is specifically designed for machines with two or more processors. The extra cost doesn't add to speed, or much anything else in a single processor machine, just to a higher cost. The high end Conroe's have the same bus speeds as well, so you don't gain anything there either.



    While I have nothing against choice, and if manufacturers wish to offer them, that's fine by me, but I don't see any good reason for buying one.



    But, Apple could offer a machine for $999 with one Conroe, two memory slots, two card slots, spaced apart so that a double slot space graphics card could be fit. and many of the other features they have now.



    A machine like that can use a 425 watt power supply instead of the 980 watt one, which would be enough for even the highest end video card, with enough left over for everything else. It can have room for two HD, and one external drive slot.



    Apple can produce a machine like this. It's only because they don't want to that they don't.



    How many times have we gone over this?



    Perhaps it's time for Apple to discontinue their 17" iMac, except for schools, and offer these instead. There is also no excuse for Apple's lack of presence in the low cost monitor business.



    The stubbornness of Apple here is absurd. It's difficult to believe that they don't see all of the sales they are losing in monitors because they refuse to compete in the biggest monitor segment. I know PC people who would not hesitate to buy a $200 17", or a $350 22" from Apple. They don't have to be in aluminum, they can be in aluminum colored plastic.



    How many people buying a Mini who don't have a computer already, or have an old crt they want to get rid of, will buy a current Apple monitor? Why should all of these other companies get those sales?



    It makes no sense.



    A mini tower would cover a lot of ground.



    The truth is that if Apple does come out with these machines and monitors, and it does impact on iMac sales, what's the difference?



    Just how many iMacs is Apple selling a year anyway? Not all that many. There is pretty much no growth there. They should be willing to try other avenues.



    If they kept the 24", and possibly the 20", with the 17" reserved for schools, insomuch as few people will spend that much for a 17" machine for home these days, at that price, particularly for an all-in-one, they might not lose much in sales at all.



    These machines wouldn't be competing directly with the higher end iMacs, which are being bought specifically because they are all-in-one's, for a fashion statement, as much as for any other reason.



    The box could go for $799 to perhaps $1,099. Any higher, and they might begin to compete too much with the iMacs, though, again, it might not matter, because those are very likely two entirely different buying groups.



    Pro's on the lower rungs of the ladder would prefer these machines as well. As they couldn't afford Apple's Mac Pro's, there would be little, if no, impact there.



    The machine impacted the most would possibly be the high end Mini. But the Mini's don't seem to be selling that well anyway.



    Personally, if I were Apple I would completely update the desktops. The replacement for the Mac Mini would be slightly larger to use less expensive desktop E43/4400 CPUs, G965 motherboards, and 3.5" hard drives. As a notebook optical drive would be used and there would not be any PCI-e slots, the form factor would still be much smaller than even the smallest PCs such as the HP slimline series.



    The iMacs would be updated (but still use merom) to the PM965 chipset, and include an updated iPhone inspired form factor with the latest 19" (1440x900), 22" (1680x1050) and 24 in (1920x1200) panels. Cinema displays in the same sizes plus 30" would also come.



    At the high end, a Mac Pro Core 2 Duo would come into play with a 2.13ghz core 2 duo E6420, 1GB of memory, and a Geforce 8300GT for $1299. BTO options would include 2.4 and 2.67ghz CPUs, 8600GT and 8800GTS CPUs, and up to 4GB of RAM on 4 DIMM slots.



    Such a desktop lineup would make Apple a serious contender in education, business, and all aspects of the home market. It would be even more of a contender if were to acquire Elgato to match the full media center capabilities as windows.
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