I'm sorry I guess I come from another planet because although I see plenty of complaints about Appleworks here on this forum and about the need to update. No one has named anything specific.
This sounds like people who beat on the iBook(duh it don't got a G4 and it's small) who don't even own it while the people who do enjoy the cool 5+ hour running G3 and light nimble computer.
I use Appleworks almost exclusively. I keep a couple spreadsheets that I use for managing my finances (Real Estate) and as a teacher I produce all my tests, quizzes, and homework sheets using Appleworks.
How are Appleworks and Microsoft Office even in the same realm? Appleworks (assuming you don't get it with a Mac) is $75 while the "upgrade" for Microsoft Office is $275 and the full version is $425.
I have both because our school licenses MS Office for our computers.
Appleworks is a word processor, spreadsheet, database, drawing, painting and presentation program. (Yes I know that the presentation module is a joke compared to Powerpoint)
MS Office doesn't even come with a database. Though it does come with the ability to generate a file to use for mail merges or use a spreadsheet for a similar purpose.
Powerpoint completely kills Appleworks presentation-wise. I can see room for improvement here but again look at the cost difference.
I hope Apple does continue to improve Appleworks. Here are some changes I would like for version 7.
Appleworks needs to be able to display in a manner that is no longer tied to 72 dpi. (This is why 100 % sometimes looks so small on modern screens)
The spell checker need to check as you type.
The spreadsheet could use some tabs.
Put all the basic shapes under one button and have the other buttons become various advanced shapes with options for shading and shadowing. (Nice feature from Office they could swipe)
Give us a real presentation module.
That's all it would take to make me beyond happy. Especially for a free (for most Mac users) to $75 program. I would also ask them to give it to all PowerMac and Powerbook users as well.
Here are some areas where Appleworks kicks butt and takes name all over Office.
Internet clip art- Type Apple-2 or go to file-show clippings. You can type in a word or phrase and have it give you all the clip art it can find for it. Just drag and drop it into your document. Most of it is vector stuff too so you can resize it to your hearts content.
Things stay where I tell them to, especially when using paragraphs, tabbing, and various bullets and outlining tools. MS Office is a nightmare with this stuff. It never puts things where I want them to go. 90% of the people out there can't figure out why it moves and just resign themselves to where the computer things the next paragraphs or outline part should go.
Appleworks use to have some assistants that would help with the presentation module. They were in version 5 but disappeared with version 6. The presentation module is actually quite capable in Appleworks but Powerpoint really kills it with the easy ability to add music and sound effects tied with actions and also easily change themes. Appleworks could use a lot of work here and really put a dent into Office.
Please post some specific improvements you think should be made to Appleworks.
<strong>I think that eventually Apple will have to make some serious upgrdes to AppleWorks.
What they could do is produce two versions, at reasonable cost: AppleWorks and Appleworks Pro. AppleWorks ships with every mac and is as close to 100% Office compatible as they can make it while retaining a measure of simplicity that the cluttered Office lacks. Perhaps it is based on StarOffice or ThinkFree Office or something like that, but it's free and it's as compatible as can be.
The difference? AppleWorks accepts pluggins! This formula has been very successful for Photoshop and could be put to work for "Office" apps too. Perhaps you only need the full features of a spreadsheet or Word processor, so you buy those, or mebbe for 100 bucks you buy 5 licenses of "Pro" which basically turns your AppleWorks into an Office killer. But it doesn't stop there, if the base is good, 3rd party pluggins might turn your AppleWorks into everything from a powerful HTML editor to an automated mailing manager, or type setting tool, etc etc... whatever you need.
iDunno, just an idea.</strong><hr></blockquote>
[quote]Originally posted by FormerLurker:
<strong>
And a damn good one, at that....</strong><hr></blockquote>
Wow... Claris Homepage 3 - I did quite a few sites with that program. Great tool.
If they were to integrate a cocoa "homepage" editor (.Mac ties here) with the rest of this jazzed up cocoa appleworks 7, while including all the cool features we're wanting, this could be a killer productivity suite.
I think the inclusion of a good WYSIWYG tool into AppleWorks is a good idea, especially if it is geared towards novices. Would be nice to have a variety of templates, clipart, and pre-made objects (like navigation bars, for example) that someone completely new to web design could make a halfway decent site with...
You don't get this do you??? Apple won't update AW until Bill Gates allows them to do so. Some parts of agreements are made public, others are not. There's no way in heII M$ would have sold Office so well if only Apple had a decent works suit. <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
Apple views Office v. X as Microsoft's clear commitment to the Mac. "There's nothing in the contract that says you have to make this killer, great version of Office for OS X," Schiller said. "It is arguably the best version of Office on any platform."
Besides, M$ already said they will keep making office on a release to release basis in <a href="http://news.com.com/2100-1040-880203.html"; target="_blank">this article.</a>
[ 12-28-2002: Message edited by: Not Unlike Myself ]</p>
Apple views Office v. X as Microsoft's clear commitment to the Mac. "There's nothing in the contract that says you have to make this killer, great version of Office for OS X," Schiller said. "It is arguably the best version of Office on any platform."
[ 12-28-2002: Message edited by: Not Unlike Myself ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, actually this wasn't to be taken all to seriously. But what company has benefited the most from Apple's reluctance to update AppleWorks? The answer is Micro$oft.
BG and SJ talk on the phone on regular bases. If BG wasn't convinced making Office for Mac was good business, a confirmation that Apple would slowly kill off AW might have helped
I just have a small thing to say that might be interesting for you ppl. I know i might look like a troll because of my few posts but anyway, thats up to you.
I am on good words with apple and asked an high ranked employe when the next version ov works for mac would come. The answer I got was this.
We had a deal with M$ but that has ended now. But if I were you I would have started searching for a different name, cause I am not sure it will be called works anymore.
I am not sure but this could maybe prove to be apples new iApplication. Think about it. Office X and works are not that complicated and they are deffintly consumer products.
Maybe we should look for something like iOffice. I am not saying this is the name but I think it will something like that.
But unfortuantly he did not assure me they would make anything like works either
I think my fellow-Canadian Matsu is on the right track with the call for a plug-in architecture, though I think it needs to be taken a bit further.
Apple has finally realized that its future lies in open standards. Thus, Quicktime has embraced MPEG4, iMovie is built on DV, iSync and iCal are built on open standards etc.
And the geniuses in Cupertino must have realized by now that Microsoft's control of the Office suite market is predicated on their control of the .doc format.
Yes, I want a new interface, Cocoa-based business friendly app like everyone else, but I think the more pressing need is for Apple to convene a working group comprised of themselves plus:
Nisus
Mariner
OpenOffice
Sun (Staroffice)
Corel (Wordperfect)
ThinkFree
and best of all...
Adobe!
The purpose would be to create a new office suite standard format to be used as the default by ALL of the above apps.
A rewritable PDF format could be the base, or even better the working group could "embrace and extend" the .doc format. Similar formats would be developed to cover spreadsheet, database and presentation functions.
Businesses would be free to choose any suite knowing that compatibity would not be an issue. Adobe's interest lies in the fact that Microsoft has the PDF format in its sights.
I think an open-standard file format is the first step in the decimation of the Office empire.
People have been preaching AppleWorks 7 for months. Back as far as <a href="http://www.macobserver.com/comments/commentindivdisplay.shtml?id=13338"; target="_blank">this.</a> As mentioned above 'iOffice' isn't out of the question. Nowhere is the name used for a piece of software (that I could find). On the other hand discussion about whether StarOffice will evolve into Appleworks 7 (or some new iApp) has been discussed
Also expected in the weeks of October: AppleWorks 7, news about iPod II (which should hit the shelves before X-Mas) and - of course - the final version of iSync.
THEN they say:
We might also see iMovie 3 and/or AppleWorks 7 demos/announcements, but we're not so sure of that one.
Then to top THAT they change their tune to:
From the other side: What we DON'T expect to see just yet:
- new PowerBook G4
- new iBook
- AppleWorks 7 OfficeSuite
Those items are planned to be released in the time frame from 'end of September' to 'before Christmas'.
Well... maybe they aren't all wrong (considering these predictions were in September and they did get two fo the three things they mentioned....
They conclude with this:
Some of our sources have also been talking about an early AppleWorks 7 announcement and iMovie 3, others clearly point those to an October release. (O'Reilly Mac OS X Conference would be a good place to show AppleWorks 7 OfficeSuite. That will start 30. Sep. 2002.)
...the O'Reilly conference has obviously come and gone and still no AppleWorks.
So....I'm not sure where to cast my reseach to now.
<strong>And the geniuses in Cupertino must have realized by now that Microsoft's control of the Office suite market is predicated on their control of the .doc format.
Yes, I want a new interface, Cocoa-based business friendly app like everyone else, but I think the more pressing need is for Apple to convene a working group comprised of themselves plus:
<snips a bunch of names>
and best of all...
Adobe!
The purpose would be to create a new office suite standard format to be used as the default by ALL of the above apps.
?A rewritable PDF format could be the base?
?I think an open-standard file format is the first step in the decimation of the Office empire.</strong><hr></blockquote>
All these guys and even more would be (to use Oprah's term) "empowered" by the system architecture itself. And as a detail, don't forget that you can now create PDF slide shows, dissolves, multimedia, portability etc. in a secure format -- an alternative to PowerPoint in addition to Word. A lot of that is already in place in OS X and available to every application.
What's mainly missing at this point is spreadsheet functionality -- tables, functions and such.
I understand your argument Buonrotto, and it is a good one.
But if Apple decides to fight the Office juggernaut, they darn well better make it a cross-platform war and not just some skirmish in AppleLand.
MS would likely begin to retaliate, even if the frameworks were provided by stealth. It makes far more sense to ensure that there are allies on the Wintel side (aka StarOffice and Corel) so that companies and individuals have an option to trade files seamlessly on both sides. As past editions of Wordperfect Office and Lotus SmartSuite show, Office software will not be standardized on unless it is cross-platform.
As with the MPEG4 alliance with Sun and Sony Ericsson, or the adoption of syncML as the basis for iSync, Apple needs friends on the other side to truly begin to take marketshare from Office.
i think apple will do this the sneaky way, just like someone pointed out that, with a few updates, the combo of mail, address book, isync and ical start looking a hell of a lot like OUTLOOK.
so my guess is, the next iapp to be free for all computers... iWrite. decent full featured word processor, but FREE.
then make a cutesy little drawing program (i hink both iPaint and iDraw are taken by others, but when has that stopped apple before? iTools and iBook were both taken, but apple used 'em anyway).
Address Book, while not an iApp, is the first step towards a iDatabse front-end (NOT a pro version... just something Joe Consumer can grasp).
funny, wasn't all this "use only the components you need" the same premise that opendoc was based on? sell the word processor, sell the spell checker, etc., etc. it's like the old saying (pardon me if i screw this up, but you'll get the idea): "give away the razors -- make money on selling the blades"
in this case, the razors are actually the software - pieces apple can afford to give away, and the blades are the only computers that can run the apps...
If Apple ever releases a successor to AppleWorks, it better not start with an 'i.' I can only hope it will be something more along the lines of the pro naming scheme. iWhatever isn't all that catchy anymore, it's overdone by Apple, and other companies have started to use the naming scheme as well (...Introducing iCurtain, the next generation in glamorous curtain design...)
Comments
This sounds like people who beat on the iBook(duh it don't got a G4 and it's small) who don't even own it while the people who do enjoy the cool 5+ hour running G3 and light nimble computer.
I use Appleworks almost exclusively. I keep a couple spreadsheets that I use for managing my finances (Real Estate) and as a teacher I produce all my tests, quizzes, and homework sheets using Appleworks.
How are Appleworks and Microsoft Office even in the same realm? Appleworks (assuming you don't get it with a Mac) is $75 while the "upgrade" for Microsoft Office is $275 and the full version is $425.
I have both because our school licenses MS Office for our computers.
Appleworks is a word processor, spreadsheet, database, drawing, painting and presentation program. (Yes I know that the presentation module is a joke compared to Powerpoint)
MS Office doesn't even come with a database. Though it does come with the ability to generate a file to use for mail merges or use a spreadsheet for a similar purpose.
Powerpoint completely kills Appleworks presentation-wise. I can see room for improvement here but again look at the cost difference.
I hope Apple does continue to improve Appleworks. Here are some changes I would like for version 7.
Appleworks needs to be able to display in a manner that is no longer tied to 72 dpi. (This is why 100 % sometimes looks so small on modern screens)
The spell checker need to check as you type.
The spreadsheet could use some tabs.
Put all the basic shapes under one button and have the other buttons become various advanced shapes with options for shading and shadowing. (Nice feature from Office they could swipe)
Give us a real presentation module.
That's all it would take to make me beyond happy. Especially for a free (for most Mac users) to $75 program. I would also ask them to give it to all PowerMac and Powerbook users as well.
Here are some areas where Appleworks kicks butt and takes name all over Office.
Internet clip art- Type Apple-2 or go to file-show clippings. You can type in a word or phrase and have it give you all the clip art it can find for it. Just drag and drop it into your document. Most of it is vector stuff too so you can resize it to your hearts content.
Things stay where I tell them to, especially when using paragraphs, tabbing, and various bullets and outlining tools. MS Office is a nightmare with this stuff. It never puts things where I want them to go. 90% of the people out there can't figure out why it moves and just resign themselves to where the computer things the next paragraphs or outline part should go.
Appleworks use to have some assistants that would help with the presentation module. They were in version 5 but disappeared with version 6. The presentation module is actually quite capable in Appleworks but Powerpoint really kills it with the easy ability to add music and sound effects tied with actions and also easily change themes. Appleworks could use a lot of work here and really put a dent into Office.
Please post some specific improvements you think should be made to Appleworks.
Nick
<strong>I think that eventually Apple will have to make some serious upgrdes to AppleWorks.
What they could do is produce two versions, at reasonable cost: AppleWorks and Appleworks Pro. AppleWorks ships with every mac and is as close to 100% Office compatible as they can make it while retaining a measure of simplicity that the cluttered Office lacks. Perhaps it is based on StarOffice or ThinkFree Office or something like that, but it's free and it's as compatible as can be.
The difference? AppleWorks accepts pluggins! This formula has been very successful for Photoshop and could be put to work for "Office" apps too. Perhaps you only need the full features of a spreadsheet or Word processor, so you buy those, or mebbe for 100 bucks you buy 5 licenses of "Pro" which basically turns your AppleWorks into an Office killer. But it doesn't stop there, if the base is good, 3rd party pluggins might turn your AppleWorks into everything from a powerful HTML editor to an automated mailing manager, or type setting tool, etc etc... whatever you need.
iDunno, just an idea.</strong><hr></blockquote>
[quote]Originally posted by FormerLurker:
<strong>
And a damn good one, at that....</strong><hr></blockquote>
And I agree 100%...
Improvements:
-multi-file find and replace functions, like Dreamweaver does
-multiple sheets in a single spreadsheet, like Excel has
-bring back the WYSIWYG Web page editor, like Claris HomePage 3 was
If they were to integrate a cocoa "homepage" editor (.Mac ties here) with the rest of this jazzed up cocoa appleworks 7, while including all the cool features we're wanting, this could be a killer productivity suite.
"No productivity suite? OK. We'll just toss some odds 'n' ends in there for those who seek them out."
<strong>Some parts of agreements are made public, others are not. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Not to be a stick in the mud, but what agreements are we talking about?
<a href="http://news.com.com/2100-1001-842879.html"; target="_blank">This one</a> expired already.
A clip from this article:
Apple views Office v. X as Microsoft's clear commitment to the Mac. "There's nothing in the contract that says you have to make this killer, great version of Office for OS X," Schiller said. "It is arguably the best version of Office on any platform."
<a href="http://www.apple.com/pr/library/1997/q4/970806.pr.rel.microsoft.html"; target="_blank">Apple's own press release on the original deal</a>
I see no new pact with M$, do you?
<a href="http://www.zdnet.com/anchordesk/stories/story/0,10738,2860891,00.html"; target="_blank">This article</a> is from ZDnet and argues that they needed to renew the deal (or some such thing). But I can't find any evidence that this deal was renewed.
Besides, M$ already said they will keep making office on a release to release basis in <a href="http://news.com.com/2100-1040-880203.html"; target="_blank">this article.</a>
[ 12-28-2002: Message edited by: Not Unlike Myself ]</p>
iWork exists!!!
<a href="http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/business_finance/iwork.html"; target="_blank">http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/business_finance/iwork.html</a>;
So much for rebranding AppleWorks! (plus iworks.com is taken by some yuppie company)
[ 12-28-2002: Message edited by: Not Unlike Myself ]</p>
<strong>
Not to be a stick in the mud, but what agreements are we talking about?
<a href="http://news.com.com/2100-1001-842879.html"; target="_blank">This one</a> expired already.
A clip from this article:
Apple views Office v. X as Microsoft's clear commitment to the Mac. "There's nothing in the contract that says you have to make this killer, great version of Office for OS X," Schiller said. "It is arguably the best version of Office on any platform."
<a href="http://www.apple.com/pr/library/1997/q4/970806.pr.rel.microsoft.html"; target="_blank">Apple's own press release on the original deal</a>
I see no new pact with M$, do you?
<a href="http://www.zdnet.com/anchordesk/stories/story/0,10738,2860891,00.html"; target="_blank">This article</a> is from ZDnet and argues that they needed to renew the deal (or some such thing). But I can't find any evidence that this deal was renewed.
[ 12-28-2002: Message edited by: Not Unlike Myself ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, actually this wasn't to be taken all to seriously. But what company has benefited the most from Apple's reluctance to update AppleWorks? The answer is Micro$oft.
BG and SJ talk on the phone on regular bases. If BG wasn't convinced making Office for Mac was good business, a confirmation that Apple would slowly kill off AW might have helped
[ 12-28-2002: Message edited by: kelib ]</p>
I just have a small thing to say that might be interesting for you ppl. I know i might look like a troll because of my few posts but anyway, thats up to you.
I am on good words with apple and asked an high ranked employe when the next version ov works for mac would come. The answer I got was this.
We had a deal with M$ but that has ended now. But if I were you I would have started searching for a different name, cause I am not sure it will be called works anymore.
I am not sure but this could maybe prove to be apples new iApplication. Think about it. Office X and works are not that complicated and they are deffintly consumer products.
Maybe we should look for something like iOffice. I am not saying this is the name but I think it will something like that.
But unfortuantly he did not assure me they would make anything like works either
Hope they will though....
[ 12-28-2002: Message edited by: Nilka ]</p>
Apple has finally realized that its future lies in open standards. Thus, Quicktime has embraced MPEG4, iMovie is built on DV, iSync and iCal are built on open standards etc.
And the geniuses in Cupertino must have realized by now that Microsoft's control of the Office suite market is predicated on their control of the .doc format.
Yes, I want a new interface, Cocoa-based business friendly app like everyone else, but I think the more pressing need is for Apple to convene a working group comprised of themselves plus:
Nisus
Mariner
OpenOffice
Sun (Staroffice)
Corel (Wordperfect)
ThinkFree
and best of all...
Adobe!
The purpose would be to create a new office suite standard format to be used as the default by ALL of the above apps.
A rewritable PDF format could be the base, or even better the working group could "embrace and extend" the .doc format. Similar formats would be developed to cover spreadsheet, database and presentation functions.
Businesses would be free to choose any suite knowing that compatibity would not be an issue. Adobe's interest lies in the fact that Microsoft has the PDF format in its sights.
I think an open-standard file format is the first step in the decimation of the Office empire.
<strong>I think an open-standard file format is the first step in the decimation of the Office empire.</strong><hr></blockquote>
yup. good point.
<a href="http://news.com.com/2100-1001-946714.html"; target="_blank">here</a> and <a href="http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0208/02.sun.php"; target="_blank">here.</a>
Also, rumor sites have been promising this 'said product' since October. <a href="http://mac.fryke.com/cgi-bin/blosxom.cgi/2002/sep"; target="_blank">One site</a> went so far as to say:
Also expected in the weeks of October: AppleWorks 7, news about iPod II (which should hit the shelves before X-Mas) and - of course - the final version of iSync.
THEN they say:
We might also see iMovie 3 and/or AppleWorks 7 demos/announcements, but we're not so sure of that one.
Then to top THAT they change their tune to:
From the other side: What we DON'T expect to see just yet:
- new PowerBook G4
- new iBook
- AppleWorks 7 OfficeSuite
Those items are planned to be released in the time frame from 'end of September' to 'before Christmas'.
Well... maybe they aren't all wrong (considering these predictions were in September and they did get two fo the three things they mentioned....
They conclude with this:
Some of our sources have also been talking about an early AppleWorks 7 announcement and iMovie 3, others clearly point those to an October release. (O'Reilly Mac OS X Conference would be a good place to show AppleWorks 7 OfficeSuite. That will start 30. Sep. 2002.)
...the O'Reilly conference has obviously come and gone and still no AppleWorks.
So....I'm not sure where to cast my reseach to now.
<strong>And the geniuses in Cupertino must have realized by now that Microsoft's control of the Office suite market is predicated on their control of the .doc format.
Yes, I want a new interface, Cocoa-based business friendly app like everyone else, but I think the more pressing need is for Apple to convene a working group comprised of themselves plus:
<snips a bunch of names>
and best of all...
Adobe!
The purpose would be to create a new office suite standard format to be used as the default by ALL of the above apps.
?A rewritable PDF format could be the base?
?I think an open-standard file format is the first step in the decimation of the Office empire.</strong><hr></blockquote>
All these guys and even more would be (to use Oprah's term) "empowered" by the system architecture itself. And as a detail, don't forget that you can now create PDF slide shows, dissolves, multimedia, portability etc. in a secure format -- an alternative to PowerPoint in addition to Word. A lot of that is already in place in OS X and available to every application.
What's mainly missing at this point is spreadsheet functionality -- tables, functions and such.
[ 12-28-2002: Message edited by: BuonRotto ]</p>
But if Apple decides to fight the Office juggernaut, they darn well better make it a cross-platform war and not just some skirmish in AppleLand.
MS would likely begin to retaliate, even if the frameworks were provided by stealth. It makes far more sense to ensure that there are allies on the Wintel side (aka StarOffice and Corel) so that companies and individuals have an option to trade files seamlessly on both sides. As past editions of Wordperfect Office and Lotus SmartSuite show, Office software will not be standardized on unless it is cross-platform.
As with the MPEG4 alliance with Sun and Sony Ericsson, or the adoption of syncML as the basis for iSync, Apple needs friends on the other side to truly begin to take marketshare from Office.
so my guess is, the next iapp to be free for all computers... iWrite. decent full featured word processor, but FREE.
then make a cutesy little drawing program (i hink both iPaint and iDraw are taken by others, but when has that stopped apple before? iTools and iBook were both taken, but apple used 'em anyway).
Address Book, while not an iApp, is the first step towards a iDatabse front-end (NOT a pro version... just something Joe Consumer can grasp).
funny, wasn't all this "use only the components you need" the same premise that opendoc was based on? sell the word processor, sell the spell checker, etc., etc. it's like the old saying (pardon me if i screw this up, but you'll get the idea): "give away the razors -- make money on selling the blades"
in this case, the razors are actually the software - pieces apple can afford to give away, and the blades are the only computers that can run the apps...
Macs.
damn, they might be brilliant after all.
[QB]I understand your argument Buonrotto, and it is a good one.<hr></blockquote>
OK, I think that's a nice way of telling me to shut up.
<strong>
OK, I think that's a nice way of telling me to shut up.
now we just would have to implement it in FC/EN.