<strong>and you probably haven't even wrote to them to ask for it and instead just whined on here.</strong><hr></blockquote>
there is no feedback page for iChat specifically the oply place you can send iChat feedback is the general OS X feedback place... where it will probably be ignored... <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
and yes I have written them and explained my gripes with iChat (AIM also)
It's really amazing how pessimistic and testy you folks are about a version 1.0.1 of iChat. \
When I was reading through iChat's resources gathering those lines of text above, I was thinking, "Wow! iChat has potential to be a real killer app!"
Rather, here you guys are quibbling about away message length. AIM has a one megabyte limit on away messages you say? That's ludicrous! That's a terrible waste of resources for an service that otherwise works fine for all users, broadband or dialup. Imagine you are using a 56k modem and when you message, say, five of your friends you have to sit and wait for a megabyte of text to download from each before you can carry on.
but the idea is people usually check your away message before they see it anyway...so if it is unusual for someone to be surprised to see a long away message after they message them...
the limit in profiles is more of a pain in the ass tho...
speaking of profiles... iChat support? <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
In fact I think the whole idea of displaying the away message under your name and not in the window was intentional--so it wouldn't be annoying and repeat the away message over and over. However only iChat users can see your away message. Maybe AIM X people can, too. I wonder if Windows users can, or if they need to see it in the window? Maybe this was just an idea for the away message interface instead of a bug, but it'd be good to have auto-reply still, for Windows users (I guess?? I haven't used AIM for Windows for years .)
i think it makes more sense to read people's away messages by getting info on them (in AIM) rather then messaging them to get the message... besides you know they are away because their icon changes... it does make sense that the message isn't sent...but of course you will have that odd friend that thinks you are ignoring them because they don't get the away message <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
<strong> it does make sense that the message isn't sent...but of course you will have that odd friend that thinks you are ignoring them because they don't get the away message <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
In fact I think the whole idea of displaying the away message under your name and not in the window was intentional--so it wouldn't be annoying and repeat the away message over and over. However only iChat users can see your away message. Maybe AIM X people can, too. I wonder if Windows users can, or if they need to see it in the window? Maybe this was just an idea for the away message interface instead of a bug, but it'd be good to have auto-reply still, for Windows users (I guess?? I haven't used AIM for Windows for years .)</strong><hr></blockquote>
The away message in iChat is the same away message used in standard AIM clients. That means Windows AIM users can see it if they check your away message. The "Available" message, however, is only visible to iChat users.
I love the way iChat puts away messages under users' names. I used to obsessively check people's away messages, opening and closing windows. Now all I have to do is glance at their name and I know it hasn't changed, etc. However, one easy improvement I would like them to make: recognize carriage returns in the away messages so text can wrap in the away message tooltip.
It's nice Apple is planning on implementing new services for iChat. I'm sure AOL won't mind Jabber, since it's not MSN or Yahoo. But why Jabber? Does anyone use it? Is there a benefit in the protocol?
Jabber is an open XML protocol for the real-time exchange of messages and presence between any two points on the Internet. The first application of Jabber technology is an asynchronous, extensible instant messaging platform, and an IM network that offers functionality similar to legacy IM systems such as AIM, ICQ, MSN, and Yahoo. However, Jabber offers several advantages over legacy IM systems:
Open -- the Jabber protocol is free, open, public, and easily understandable, and multiple open-source implementations exist for Jabber servers, clients, and development libraries.
Extensible -- using the power of XML namespaces, anyone can extend the Jabber protocol for custom functionality; to maintain interoperability, common extensions are managed by the Jabber Software Foundation.
Decentralized -- anyone can run their own Jabber server, enabling individuals and organizations to take control of their IM experience.
Secure -- Any Jabber server may be isolated from the public Jabber network, many server implementations use SSL for client-server communications, and numerous clients support PGP/GPG for end-to-end encryption; more robust security using SASL and session keys is under development.
Thanks Brad. Jabber does sound interesting.. there's a lot of potential there at least. It would be smart of Apple to jump on the bandwagon and leverage Jabber's extensibility with their own brand of innovation.
I still see a problem with getting people to use Jabber.. perhaps a problem Apple is currently working on solving seamlessly in iChat.
[quote]Decentralized -- anyone can run their own Jabber server, enabling individuals and organizations to take control of their IM experience.<hr></blockquote>
This in particular looks like something Apple can spiff up for the average user - although I'm not smart enough to think of a huge advantage this would have over starting a private AIM chatroom.
1. Poor handling of away messages. In addition to the current problems, it makes the away message disappear when someone goes idle; substituting the idle time for the away message in the buddy list. This is unacceptable; the away message is clearly the more important of the two pieces of information. In this situation, it is impossible to view someone's away message without messaging them, which is rather counter to the stated metaphor of 'status messages' as implemented throughout the rest of iChat. In lieu of the current behavior, it would be advisable for Apple to merely change the color of the status bubble to yellow (to indicate idle) and display the away message under the screen name. Perhaps, in addition, the idle time could be displayed after the away message text, as well.
2. Wierd font handling. It doesn't always show buddies' messages in the font that they have selected, unless they are using iChat. It just switches a majority of people's fonts to whatever your default is set to (in my case, Lucida Grande). This is annoying; again, I suspect less-than-perfect compatibility with the AIM network is at play here; not in the actual connectivity, but in the way that the recieved information is translated and displayed by iChat.
3. Purely cosmetic: on the File Transfer status window, the iChat icon is grainy and pixellated. Ugly.
4. Changing the font size in the buddy list to 11 point would yield a great deal better usability for people who have a lot of buddies. Scrolling your buddy list sucks.
5. I have more, but I don't have OS X in front of me. I'll post more when I do.
[quote] think it makes more sense to read people's away messages by getting info on them (in AIM) rather then messaging them to get the message... besides you know they are away because their icon changes... it does make sense that the message isn't sent...but of course you will have that odd friend that thinks you are ignoring them because they don't get the away message
<hr></blockquote>
Like my mom at first.
Has anyone noticed you can have patterned backgrounds in the bubbles? You can see what I mean if you look in "Developer" in the background colors for the bubbles in prefs. I got them to appear in pinstripes, however it seemed buggy, the bubbles started appearing in black. Anyone else given this a try?
<strong>ICQ hooks are a no-brainer since AOL is integrating that network with AIM too. But don't expect other instant messaging protocols to go over well with AOL, which allows Apple to hook into AIM. (Not that Apple couldn't reverse engineer it like so many other apps, it's more a political issue.)
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think that AOL is most concerned with Apple adding MSN support. Jabber isn't really a threat to AOL, at least at this time. And since .mac is only tethered to AIM I'd tend to think that Jabber is just an after-thought.
1. As others have said, away message handling. Going idle loses the away message. Also, I would rather get the away message in the info rather than need to hover the mouse over it for the tooltip. Sometimes my friends have LONG away messages and the tooltip chokes and only displays one line of it that is a screen long (1280x854 TiBook screen). Sometimes I can't even get the tooltips to display no matter how long I hover the most too, and it's annoying to need to stretch the buddy window just to read an away message.
2. When iChat auto-magically disconnects from time to time, I sometimes want to stay disconnected. Even if I choose 'Offline' in the status menu it still tries to auto-reconnect. If I choose offline it should override that instance of auto-reconnecting.
3. There should also be a 'temp away message' option where I can make a one-time use away message like 'watching super bowl' or 'getting a root canal'.
4. I don't like the fact that I can't disable the iChat agent if I decide not to use iChat anymore. The iChat agent is that menubar thingy. After a fresh install it isn't there before you run iChat for the first time, but it *is* there afterwards, whether you use iChat anymore or not.
5. Another oddity is that the iChat agent will sometimes sign me on to AIM when I quit iChat while it is in 'auto-reconnect' mode. So I'll end up being connected to AIM from the menubar with no iChat open. This is very odd.
[edit :]
Another problem is people with multiple AIM screennames. I put most of my friends in my address book and put their multiple names in their as well. iChat will display only the name of the person in iChat and it allows me to get the info for both in the info window. It also tells me all the AIM names that the person is signed in under in the tooltip. The part that doesn't work is that I don't get to choose which AIM name I will IM when I IM that person. It doesn't ask me. It also doesn't allow me to choose what to do about the status of that person if one AIM sn is away and one isn't. They need to solve this problem, since a lot of my friends have AIM names at home and work, and I like to keep all that in my Address Book. If anything they could just allow an option to choose from the buddy list which screenname is currently the default for everything (messaging, status, etc).
<strong>Remember, since the very earliest developer builds of iChat were available, the Fez.framework (which later became the InstantMessage.framework) has included the following two mysterious graphics:
mb-camera.tiff
mb-mic.tiff
These graphics follow the same naming convention as the graphics for the bold, italics, participants, sendfile, and smileys buttons that are in chat windows. So, there has obviously been lots of speculation as to if and when Apple will integrate voice and/or video communication into iChat.
Well, I decided I'd do some further investigation on my own about this. I found a few other yet-unused graphics in iChat and its frameworks, a menu with extra options for formatting the buddy list, these microphone support strings:
Any thoughts?
It looks to me like Apple has a LOT of features planned for future versions of iChat.
<strong>4. I don't like the fact that I can't disable the iChat agent if I decide not to use iChat anymore. The iChat agent is that menubar thingy. After a fresh install it isn't there before you run iChat for the first time, but it *is* there afterwards, whether you use iChat anymore or not.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hold down your Command key and drag it off the menubar. Poof!
<strong>5. Another oddity is that the iChat agent will sometimes sign me on to AIM when I quit iChat while it is in 'auto-reconnect' mode. So I'll end up being connected to AIM from the menubar with no iChat open. This is very odd.</strong><hr></blockquote>
check the ichat preferences
"Show status in menubar" (off)
"When I quit iChat, set my status to offline" (on)
Before I disabled the menu bar, 'set my status to offline when I quit ichat' *was* enabled. Like I said, when iChat is in 'auto-reconnect' mode even clicking 'offline' manually will not stop it from reconnecting.
Comments
<strong>and you probably haven't even wrote to them to ask for it and instead just whined on here.</strong><hr></blockquote>
there is no feedback page for iChat specifically the oply place you can send iChat feedback is the general OS X feedback place... where it will probably be ignored... <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
and yes I have written them and explained my gripes with iChat (AIM also)
When I was reading through iChat's resources gathering those lines of text above, I was thinking, "Wow! iChat has potential to be a real killer app!"
Rather, here you guys are quibbling about away message length. AIM has a one megabyte limit on away messages you say? That's ludicrous! That's a terrible waste of resources for an service that otherwise works fine for all users, broadband or dialup. Imagine you are using a 56k modem and when you message, say, five of your friends you have to sit and wait for a megabyte of text to download from each before you can carry on.
Sheesh.
but the idea is people usually check your away message before they see it anyway...so if it is unusual for someone to be surprised to see a long away message after they message them...
the limit in profiles is more of a pain in the ass tho...
speaking of profiles... iChat support? <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
maybe next release...
iPhoto is still 1.0 tho
In fact I think the whole idea of displaying the away message under your name and not in the window was intentional--so it wouldn't be annoying and repeat the away message over and over. However only iChat users can see your away message. Maybe AIM X people can, too. I wonder if Windows users can, or if they need to see it in the window? Maybe this was just an idea for the away message interface instead of a bug, but it'd be good to have auto-reply still, for Windows users (I guess?? I haven't used AIM for Windows for years
i think it makes more sense to read people's away messages by getting info on them (in AIM) rather then messaging them to get the message... besides you know they are away because their icon changes... it does make sense that the message isn't sent...but of course you will have that odd friend that thinks you are ignoring them because they don't get the away message <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
<strong> it does make sense that the message isn't sent...but of course you will have that odd friend that thinks you are ignoring them because they don't get the away message <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
how does it make sense?
<strong>iChat probably will be great!
In fact I think the whole idea of displaying the away message under your name and not in the window was intentional--so it wouldn't be annoying and repeat the away message over and over. However only iChat users can see your away message. Maybe AIM X people can, too. I wonder if Windows users can, or if they need to see it in the window? Maybe this was just an idea for the away message interface instead of a bug, but it'd be good to have auto-reply still, for Windows users (I guess?? I haven't used AIM for Windows for years
The away message in iChat is the same away message used in standard AIM clients. That means Windows AIM users can see it if they check your away message. The "Available" message, however, is only visible to iChat users.
I love the way iChat puts away messages under users' names. I used to obsessively check people's away messages, opening and closing windows. Now all I have to do is glance at their name and I know it hasn't changed, etc. However, one easy improvement I would like them to make: recognize carriage returns in the away messages so text can wrap in the away message tooltip.
It's nice Apple is planning on implementing new services for iChat. I'm sure AOL won't mind Jabber, since it's not MSN or Yahoo. But why Jabber? Does anyone use it? Is there a benefit in the protocol?
Originally posted by frawgz:
But why Jabber? Does anyone use it? Is there a benefit in the protocol?
Here is your answer. I haven't used it yet, but it sounds fantastic.
A brief quote from that page:
Jabber is an open XML protocol for the real-time exchange of messages and presence between any two points on the Internet. The first application of Jabber technology is an asynchronous, extensible instant messaging platform, and an IM network that offers functionality similar to legacy IM systems such as AIM, ICQ, MSN, and Yahoo. However, Jabber offers several advantages over legacy IM systems:
I still see a problem with getting people to use Jabber.. perhaps a problem Apple is currently working on solving seamlessly in iChat.
[quote]Decentralized -- anyone can run their own Jabber server, enabling individuals and organizations to take control of their IM experience.<hr></blockquote>
This in particular looks like something Apple can spiff up for the average user - although I'm not smart enough to think of a huge advantage this would have over starting a private AIM chatroom.
1. Poor handling of away messages. In addition to the current problems, it makes the away message disappear when someone goes idle; substituting the idle time for the away message in the buddy list. This is unacceptable; the away message is clearly the more important of the two pieces of information. In this situation, it is impossible to view someone's away message without messaging them, which is rather counter to the stated metaphor of 'status messages' as implemented throughout the rest of iChat. In lieu of the current behavior, it would be advisable for Apple to merely change the color of the status bubble to yellow (to indicate idle) and display the away message under the screen name. Perhaps, in addition, the idle time could be displayed after the away message text, as well.
2. Wierd font handling. It doesn't always show buddies' messages in the font that they have selected, unless they are using iChat. It just switches a majority of people's fonts to whatever your default is set to (in my case, Lucida Grande). This is annoying; again, I suspect less-than-perfect compatibility with the AIM network is at play here; not in the actual connectivity, but in the way that the recieved information is translated and displayed by iChat.
3. Purely cosmetic: on the File Transfer status window, the iChat icon is grainy and pixellated. Ugly.
4. Changing the font size in the buddy list to 11 point would yield a great deal better usability for people who have a lot of buddies. Scrolling your buddy list sucks.
5. I have more, but I don't have OS X in front of me. I'll post more when I do.
<hr></blockquote>
Like my mom at first.
Has anyone noticed you can have patterned backgrounds in the bubbles? You can see what I mean if you look in "Developer" in the background colors for the bubbles in prefs. I got them to appear in pinstripes, however it seemed buggy, the bubbles started appearing in black. Anyone else given this a try?
+rendezvous - managed to meet all the funky mac people at uni.
+nice and fast/smooth
+nice text, easy on the eyes
+nice UI
<strong>ICQ hooks are a no-brainer since AOL is integrating that network with AIM too. But don't expect other instant messaging protocols to go over well with AOL, which allows Apple to hook into AIM. (Not that Apple couldn't reverse engineer it like so many other apps, it's more a political issue.)
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think that AOL is most concerned with Apple adding MSN support. Jabber isn't really a threat to AOL, at least at this time. And since .mac is only tethered to AIM I'd tend to think that Jabber is just an after-thought.
1. As others have said, away message handling. Going idle loses the away message. Also, I would rather get the away message in the info rather than need to hover the mouse over it for the tooltip. Sometimes my friends have LONG away messages and the tooltip chokes and only displays one line of it that is a screen long (1280x854 TiBook screen). Sometimes I can't even get the tooltips to display no matter how long I hover the most too, and it's annoying to need to stretch the buddy window just to read an away message.
2. When iChat auto-magically disconnects from time to time, I sometimes want to stay disconnected. Even if I choose 'Offline' in the status menu it still tries to auto-reconnect. If I choose offline it should override that instance of auto-reconnecting.
3. There should also be a 'temp away message' option where I can make a one-time use away message like 'watching super bowl' or 'getting a root canal'.
4. I don't like the fact that I can't disable the iChat agent if I decide not to use iChat anymore. The iChat agent is that menubar thingy. After a fresh install it isn't there before you run iChat for the first time, but it *is* there afterwards, whether you use iChat anymore or not.
5. Another oddity is that the iChat agent will sometimes sign me on to AIM when I quit iChat while it is in 'auto-reconnect' mode. So I'll end up being connected to AIM from the menubar with no iChat open. This is very odd.
[edit :]
Another problem is people with multiple AIM screennames. I put most of my friends in my address book and put their multiple names in their as well. iChat will display only the name of the person in iChat and it allows me to get the info for both in the info window. It also tells me all the AIM names that the person is signed in under in the tooltip. The part that doesn't work is that I don't get to choose which AIM name I will IM when I IM that person. It doesn't ask me. It also doesn't allow me to choose what to do about the status of that person if one AIM sn is away and one isn't. They need to solve this problem, since a lot of my friends have AIM names at home and work, and I like to keep all that in my Address Book. If anything they could just allow an option to choose from the buddy list which screenname is currently the default for everything (messaging, status, etc).
[ 01-05-2003: Message edited by: pyr3 ]</p>
<strong>Remember, since the very earliest developer builds of iChat were available, the Fez.framework (which later became the InstantMessage.framework) has included the following two mysterious graphics:
mb-camera.tiff
mb-mic.tiff
These graphics follow the same naming convention as the graphics for the bold, italics, participants, sendfile, and smileys buttons that are in chat windows. So, there has obviously been lots of speculation as to if and when Apple will integrate voice and/or video communication into iChat.
Well, I decided I'd do some further investigation on my own about this. I found a few other yet-unused graphics in iChat and its frameworks, a menu with extra options for formatting the buddy list, these microphone support strings:
Any thoughts?
It looks to me like Apple has a LOT of features planned for future versions of iChat.
[ 12-29-2002: Message edited by: Brad ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
There's also been a 17" iMac, Set Top Box, Star Trek (x86) support, 6 slot tower, and so on and so forth that were all...STEVED.
<strong>4. I don't like the fact that I can't disable the iChat agent if I decide not to use iChat anymore. The iChat agent is that menubar thingy. After a fresh install it isn't there before you run iChat for the first time, but it *is* there afterwards, whether you use iChat anymore or not.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hold down your Command key and drag it off the menubar. Poof!
<strong>5. Another oddity is that the iChat agent will sometimes sign me on to AIM when I quit iChat while it is in 'auto-reconnect' mode. So I'll end up being connected to AIM from the menubar with no iChat open. This is very odd.</strong><hr></blockquote>
check the ichat preferences
"Show status in menubar" (off)
"When I quit iChat, set my status to offline" (on)
"When iChat opens, automatically login" (off)
<strong>
check the ichat preferences
"Show status in menubar" (off)
"When I quit iChat, set my status to offline" (on)
"When iChat opens, automatically login" (off)</strong><hr></blockquote>
Before I disabled the menu bar, 'set my status to offline when I quit ichat' *was* enabled. Like I said, when iChat is in 'auto-reconnect' mode even clicking 'offline' manually will not stop it from reconnecting.