Apple slapped with iTunes customization lawsuit

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 50
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,167member
    If this other company had such a great patent why didn't they make a successful product themselves? Or have they and I missed it?
  • Reply 22 of 50
    davegeedavegee Posts: 2,765member
    Getting myself back on topic, these kinds of patents shouldn't exist... I'm sorry but a web site displaying specific products to regular visitors based on said specific visitors buying habits isn't a 'novel invention' its simply good salesmanship.



    Is it any different then waking into your favorite clothing store and the sales/counter person says 'hey you might want to look at -whatever- it just came in and I just knew you'd like it' (because the sales person being a 'good sales person' knows the styles you like) or is it any different then sitting down at your favorite restaurant with your regular waiter telling you 'oh we just added -whatever- to the menu and I'm sure you'll love it' (because the waiter 'being a good waiter' knows what kinds of foods you favor).



    Displaying or making aware a product that you know a regular customer would like since you know what they've purchased in the past is simply good salesmanship, admittedly a dying art when shopping at some stores these days but certainly not a novel invention...



    Finally this 'patent' sounds just like a system described in Bill Gates super-home (from how many years ago). Where residents and guests would wear some type of tracking pin and then as the person walked thru the house the servers would present artwork (in digital picture frames) and stream music that the pin wearer prefers most.



    Sorry but these kinds of obvious patents should be rooted from the system as quickly as they are found.



    Dave
  • Reply 23 of 50
    hdasmithhdasmith Posts: 145member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DaveGee View Post


    Get over yourself... his comment was no less flippant then the posters comment stating the US legal system was terrible... Oh wait, are you still in the mode where anyone can say anything they like so long as its has anti-US overtones?



    It sure seems like it to me or you would have been commenting on the flippant comment about the US legal system being terrible. Since painting something as complex as a legal system with a single word (terrible/great/etc) would be like me saying the Sun is terrible simply because I got a sun burn last summer and forgoing all of the good the Sun does.



    Oh and Japan has a 'less than terrible' legal system? Maybe it does but where was the I when this was put up to a world-vote ?? **or** Did you just flippantly hand down this proclamation all by yourself?



    Both remarks could be seen as pretty flippant, but there's no point fighting over it! As a non-US citizen, I'm afraid I have to agree that most Americans APPEAR to have a slight "we are mightier than thou" attitude. For example, the use of the English language. A friend of mine went to America on Holiday from England. She got chatting to some people in the bar who were American who insisted that my friend was not speaking English. Also, all software defaults to American English (Apple is particularly bad on this front as you cannot change Pages to British English).



    Then there is the idea that all countries should have the same political system. My brother is studying politics and came up with quite an insightful idea that by now, each country has introduced a politial system that suits them best, whether other countries like it or not (although I have to admit Blair is just as bad as Bush). On another interesting idea, Clarkson (from BBC's Top Gear) went to America, asking people in Las Vagas to name European countries, very few could.



    I know these are HUGE generalisations, but it is what is shown to the outsider, and thus we get a rather distorted attitude towards Americans.
  • Reply 24 of 50
    louzerlouzer Posts: 1,054member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


    If this other company had such a great patent why didn't they make a successful product themselves? Or have they and I missed it?



    Just because you have a patent doesn't mean you need to be able to produce a product. You may not have the funding or resources to actually produce a product. But that doesn't invalidate the patent.
  • Reply 25 of 50
    louzerlouzer Posts: 1,054member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hdasmith View Post


    On another interesting idea, Clarkson (from BBC's Top Gear) went to America, asking people in Las Vagas to name European countries, very few could.





    Well since so many of the european countries are now part of the EU and such, isn't knowing "Europe" good enough? Do we get some extra credit if we can pick the correct hemisphere?



    But going to Vegas? Yeah, let's go to a place where people would rather pee their pants then leave a slot machine that's on a roll, and ask them questions that doesn't involve where the crap tables are! You might as well go to France and ask them to win a war!
  • Reply 26 of 50
    -cj--cj- Posts: 58member
    does Microsoft fund the legal pursuits of these little companies??
  • Reply 27 of 50
    foxx1980foxx1980 Posts: 1member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hdasmith View Post


    Both remarks could be seen as pretty flippant, but there's no point fighting over it! As a non-US citizen, I'm afraid I have to agree that most Americans APPEAR to have a slight "we are mightier than thou" attitude. For example, the use of the English language. A friend of mine went to America on Holiday from England. She got chatting to some people in the bar who were American who insisted that my friend was not speaking English. Also, all software defaults to American English (Apple is particularly bad on this front as you cannot change Pages to British English).



    Then there is the idea that all countries should have the same political system. My brother is studying politics and came up with quite an insightful idea that by now, each country has introduced a politial system that suits them best, whether other countries like it or not (although I have to admit Blair is just as bad as Bush). On another interesting idea, Clarkson (from BBC's Top Gear) went to America, asking people in Las Vagas to name European countries, very few could.



    I know these are HUGE generalisations, but it is what is shown to the outsider, and thus we get a rather distorted attitude towards Americans.



    Its okay, Most of us think that people from the UK are snobs who think they are better than americans.



    As for the suit, I think it will all be taken care of, Apple has a mad legal team.
  • Reply 28 of 50
    repirepi Posts: 2member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Zandros View Post


    Remember, the patent system was created to protect the rights of the small person towards large companies, though it certainly doesn't seem that way today, in a similar matter that copyright laws were intended to protect the artist against the huge record companies, not against the customer...



    Even though I would like to, I don't really believe in the noble nature of laws. Historically the laws have provided ways of keeping privileged people in privileged positions. Be it gentry in feudalism or capitalists and big corporations in capitalism. Patent laws have been and are regularly used and abused for that very purpose. Just remember the case of big film studios patenting film camera and using the patent to prevent independents from using them for making movies.



    What I really dislike is when patent laws are used to hold back progress. It happens in all areas but it is most disturbing when it happens regularly in medicine. Big corporations buying off patents for new and promising therapies just to lock them in the vault to protect the investments they have made in their less efficient more expensive products that have not yet paid off the planned return on investment. Or, on the other hand, ignoring and not venturing into trying out substances that might provide excellent therapies, just because they can not be patented, are easy available and so could not be sold expensively. They just are not profitable enough. Not only do they not venture in trying them out, but also actively discourage and prevent independent labs from testing them and publishing their results.



    But I digress now. The point: no need to be naive about noble causes for laws. Many times it is nothing more but sand in the eyes.
  • Reply 29 of 50
    maccentricmaccentric Posts: 263member
    Amazon and Netflix have been making recommendations to me about products based on my habits since the 90's.
  • Reply 30 of 50
    maccentricmaccentric Posts: 263member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hdasmith View Post


    Both remarks could be seen as pretty flippant, but there's no point fighting over it! As a non-US citizen, I'm afraid I have to agree that most Americans APPEAR to have a slight "we are mightier than thou" attitude. For example, the use of the English language. A friend of mine went to America on Holiday from England. She got chatting to some people in the bar who were American who insisted that my friend was not speaking English. Also, all software defaults to American English (Apple is particularly bad on this front as you cannot change Pages to British English).



    Then there is the idea that all countries should have the same political system. My brother is studying politics and came up with quite an insightful idea that by now, each country has introduced a politial system that suits them best, whether other countries like it or not (although I have to admit Blair is just as bad as Bush). On another interesting idea, Clarkson (from BBC's Top Gear) went to America, asking people in Las Vagas to name European countries, very few could.



    I know these are HUGE generalisations, but it is what is shown to the outsider, and thus we get a rather distorted attitude towards Americans.





    I believe that an incredibly large majority of people in most places of the world are by nature ethnocentric and believe that their country/race/way of life is the best. I could easily name 15 countries in Europe without any help. I agree that the people in the bar that your friend ran into were ignorant. Also, keep in mind that when a TV show goes to do the man on the street interviews, they might have spoken with 25 people to find the 2 or 3 to feature who were the most ignorant or funniest. I bet that if I were to go to the UK, I could easily find people who couldn't list five countries from say Africa, or South America. Not to mention how there seems to be an undertone of Brits, Scottish, Welsh, and Irish who all think that they are superior to the others.



    The more you know, the more you realize that we humans are more similar than different around the world.
  • Reply 31 of 50
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,946member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Louzer View Post


    Just because you have a patent doesn't mean you need to be able to produce a product. You may not have the funding or resources to actually produce a product. But that doesn't invalidate the patent.



    What kind of product? I really don't think it's that hard or that expensive. For me, it would probably cost me more to patent an idea than it would to just make a product around it, though that might not count the time that I'm investing to develop the product. Nothing I make is a huge mass market affair (yet), but it is still a product.



    If it's truly novel and it was deemed worth patenting, then finding investment capital shouldn't be hard if that's what is desired.



    I know not making it into a product doesn't invalidate the patent, but I can at least sympathize with why people think it should.



    I don't have any solutions to the problem. It's beginning to look as if one can't write software without infringing on someone's patent.
  • Reply 32 of 50
    maccentricmaccentric Posts: 263member
    This is an example of how these people who are suing Apple are thinking about their 'intellectual property'



    From the Ali-G show:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkuOuxRD1Bc Start it at 0:50 and watch to 1:30.



    (Ali-G is a comedy show by the way)
  • Reply 33 of 50
    louzerlouzer Posts: 1,054member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by -cj- View Post


    does Microsoft fund the legal pursuits of these little companies??



    I doubt it, since these companies also get around to suing MS on stupid things like this as well (remember the "activeX plug-in" lawsuit over how plug-ins work in IE?).
  • Reply 34 of 50
    bageljoeybageljoey Posts: 1,752member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacCentric View Post


    I believe that an incredibly large majority of people in most places of the world are by nature ethnocentric and believe that their country/race/way of life is the best.



    So true.

    In addition, the world as a whole helps feed the US's self centeredness by consuming our culture--in France they are rapping and eating frozen bread, American movies and tv shows abound around the world--"its hard to be modest when you are so great..."



    Quote:

    I agree that the people in the bar that your friend ran into were ignorant.



    Or they were having fun frustrating somebody with a cool accent.



    I had a friend who enjoyed nothing less than pretending to be the ignorant American when we traveled around the world. People were so ready to believe anything ignorant he said. "You're from Austria, so cool. I've always wanted to see Germany." --That one always got a great response.
  • Reply 35 of 50
    sjgelmansjgelman Posts: 5member
    1. A patent is a "negative monopoly" that grants the patent owner the right to exclude others (the negative part) from making, using, selling, or importing (the monopoly part) the patented invention in the U.S. (for example). There is nothing in the patent statute in the U.S. or in any other country that forces a patent holder to actually practice the invention (i.e., make a product or use a process). They can just sit back and let the money come in (or sue to get it).



    2. In the U.S., there are maintenance fees that must be paid during the life of the patent to keep it in force. These fees increase over time. Other countries have annual annuities, which are basically the same thing. Bottom line: if the patent holder doesn't pay the fee, the patent expires.



    3. That said, some countries have a "compulsory license", under which if a patent holder is not actively making use of their patented invention, they must license it at a "reasonable rate" to any party that is interested. There are some other prerequisites, like a certain period of time must have passed without the patent holder exercising their rights (often 3 or 4 years) and the interested party must have sought a license from the patent holder.



    Hope this helps clarify a few things.
  • Reply 36 of 50
    davegeedavegee Posts: 2,765member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hdasmith View Post


    On another interesting idea, Clarkson (from BBC's Top Gear) went to America, asking people in Las Vagas to name European countries, very few could.



    Don't feel too bad about this... Ask those very same folks to name the last 10 American presidents & vice presidents and you'd likely get the very same blank stare after the first 5 or 6...



    It's not the people fault (it's never the peoples fault) and we sure know that we can't blame the teachers but I'm sure we'll find someone to pin this on... Hmmm how about Don Imus or maybe some popular conservative radio talk-show host?
  • Reply 37 of 50
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by othello View Post


    the american legal system really is terrible...



    You mean the patent system, right? Because the legal system, at least in this particular case, is fine and dandy. Both parties have money to afford the ligitation. Both parties are knowledgable about the subject matter. Both are certainly going to be represented by competent attorneys.



    The legal system is fine. It's the patent system that you want to go after.
  • Reply 38 of 50
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DaveGee View Post


    Don't feel too bad about this... Ask those very same folks to name the last 10 American presidents & vice presidents and you'd likely get the very same blank stare after the first 5 or 6...



    It's not the people fault (it's never the peoples fault) and we sure know that we can't blame the teachers but I'm sure we'll find someone to pin this on... Hmmm how about Don Imus or maybe some popular conservative radio talk-show host?



    I lived in Europe for a few years. Southern Italy to be precise. When I would tell people I was from Virginia, they would ask if I knew their brother in law in Seattle. It goes both ways. People just can't be bothered to retain a lot of information that is not pertinent to their day-to-day lives. I certainly don't feel bad about Americans not knowing all the European countries. I don't feel bad about Americans not knowing all of the US Presidents. It's just not that relevant to living.



    Try this: You have a choice of two doctors, and you want to choose one. So you ask them questions. Both can name all the parts of the body, both can name the same number of diseases, virii, proper surgical techniques, have an equal number of successful operations under their belt, etc., but only one can name all of the European countries. Are you really going to let something that trivial affect your choice of a doctor?
  • Reply 39 of 50
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,167member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacCentric View Post


    I believe that an incredibly large majority of people in most places of the world are by nature ethnocentric and believe that their country/race/way of life is the best. I could easily name 15 countries in Europe without any help. I agree that the people in the bar that your friend ran into were ignorant. Also, keep in mind that when a TV show goes to do the man on the street interviews, they might have spoken with 25 people to find the 2 or 3 to feature who were the most ignorant or funniest. I bet that if I were to go to the UK, I could easily find people who couldn't list five countries from say Africa, or South America. Not to mention how there seems to be an undertone of Brits, Scottish, Welsh, and Irish who all think that they are superior to the others.



    The more you know, the more you realize that we humans are more similar than different around the world.



    Very true and accurate. I am English, (I don't say Brit. The Welsh and Irish and Scottish all hate the English! ) and I have lived in US for 18 years. When I go back to the UK these days I am staggered at how poorly most speak and how parochial many are. Visiting the US on vacation doesn't exactly introduce one to real Americans who are for the most part very friendly, well educated and even have good dental care unlike the UK lol. But seriously, There is very little difference to people the World over when you dig deep enough as Mac Centric says.
  • Reply 40 of 50
    neutrino23neutrino23 Posts: 1,525member
    Software patents are OK but I agree with some earlier posters. The bar for obviousness has been set far too low. Somewhere along the line the patent office changed from being a filter to being an amplifier.
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