I hope Apple offers better dimming with their LED backlights than they do with their current desktop displays. The current crop is too bright for me at the dimmest level. Are the people that are asking for brighter displays using them outdoors? Do they have cataracts? Any brighter and it's getting uncomfortably close to a tanning booth.
I hope Apple offers better dimming with their LED backlights than they do with their current desktop displays. The current crop is too bright for me at the dimmest level. Are the people that are asking for brighter displays using them outdoors? Do they have cataracts? Any brighter and it's getting uncomfortably close to a tanning booth.
No wonder Mac users are universally such good looking people!
My guess is that reductions in other component costs will give Apple the room needed to add a new LED LCD panel to the MBP soon. Here's what I'm thinking:
15.4" LED LCD
2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
1440 x 900 pixels
xGB Turbo Memory (NAND, Robson)
2GB memory
120GB hard drive
8x double-layer SuperDrive
nVidia GeForce Go 7700
graphics with 256MB SDRAM
$2,599
Note: Samsung demonstrated a 15.4" white LED LCD early this year with these specs:
Maybe. But the backlight shouldn't have too much to do with color range in an LCD monitor. You might be thinking about actual LED displays, which do not have LCDs at all.
Nope, I think he is right, seems that a lot of the panels coming out (LCD panels) have lousy BTSC color coverage. Maybe its because they are cheap ones or something.
On the flip side, Apple does not publish their NTSC color coverage so they may not be that much better for all we know.
1. Apple plans to introduce the first LED flat-panels in 2007, but is dependent on the panel manufacturers.
2. 10.5 is coming in October and will feature resolution-independence.
3. from 2 we can hypothesize that Apple is going to release a high-resolution display AFTER 10.5. Using a high-resolution display with Tiger will lead to small unreadable letters.
4. Since it doesn't make sense to change the display line-up twice in a short time, we're talking about a single revision.
5. That revision will have to happen AFTER 10.5, meaning after October.
6. Conclusion: no new displays (and only minor revisions for the iMac) until after 10.5.
I have a feeling that you are right on the money, like you I expect that Apple will be raising the resolution on ALL their displays and use resolution-independence to make better use of those extra pixels to make the images and text clearer.
For people like me a 30 inch monitor without resolution-independence is not usable as the text is too small at native resolution. The 24" iMac is about perfect for me to read the menus and stuff while wearing glasses.
Resolution-independence can't get here soon enough.
I hope Apple offers better dimming with their LED backlights than they do with their current desktop displays. The current crop is too bright for me at the dimmest level. Are the people that are asking for brighter displays using them outdoors? Do they have cataracts? Any brighter and it's getting uncomfortably close to a tanning booth.
For people like me a 30 inch monitor without resolution-independence is not usable as the text is too small at native resolution. The 24" iMac is about perfect for me to read the menus and stuff while wearing glasses.
The 30" and 24" have roughly the same pitch. The screen size shouldn't make any difference unless you use the screen at a different distance as a result.
1. Apple plans to introduce the first LED flat-panels in 2007, but is dependent on the panel manufacturers.
2. 10.5 is coming in October and will feature resolution-independence.
3. from 2 we can hypothesize that Apple is going to release a high-resolution display AFTER 10.5. Using a high-resolution display with Tiger will lead to small unreadable letters.
4. Since it doesn't make sense to change the display line-up twice in a short time, we're talking about a single revision.
5. That revision will have to happen AFTER 10.5, meaning after October.
6. Conclusion: no new displays (and only minor revisions for the iMac) until after 10.5.
so in effect you are saying that ppl should stay away from any update to the MBP that comes out before october?
i would have thought that whatever MBP they release before Leopard (assuming it comes) would be able to take advantage of all the features Leopard offers - ie it would effectively be a 'leopard' MBP just running Tiger until the new OS comes out... it doesn't make sense. esp. considering Leopard was originally due around the same time as a possible MBP update.
It's quite bizarre that Steve would hype LED backlit LCD displays like this. This must represent a very minor part of their super-spectacular product offerings in wait... mmm... products...
so in effect you are saying that ppl should stay away from any update to the MBP that comes out before october?
That post was only about the displays. The display lineup isn't updated more than once a year that I remember. I think there are usually about two updates to the pro notebooks every year. I think update #1 will be to the Santa Rosa platform, update #2 might be LED backlights as well as a small speed increase. As is much of this thread, this is just speculation, but I think is reasonable speculation.
so in effect you are saying that ppl should stay away from any update to the MBP that comes out before october?
i would have thought that whatever MBP they release before Leopard (assuming it comes) would be able to take advantage of all the features Leopard offers - ie it would effectively be a 'leopard' MBP just running Tiger until the new OS comes out... it doesn't make sense. esp. considering Leopard was originally due around the same time as a possible MBP update.
I gather his post was referring to standalone Cinema Displays, which are updated very rarely. If they are to be updated soon (and they are LONG overdue -- the line, except for minor changes, has been pretty much static since summer '04), presumably they will come after Leopard if the updates include higher resolutions. Tiger isn't resolution-independent, meaning text and UI elements would appear inordinately tiny on high-res ACD's. October or beyond is the only reasonable timeframe here.
As for the MacBook Pro's, I can't see why they couldn't update the chipset and maybe some cosmetic details in May-June, but put off higher resolution displays until later -- perhaps early next year. The laptops' displays are even denser with pixels than the ACDs, so the negative effects of a lack of resolution independence would be even more apparent on them. I seriously cannot fathom that people think 1920x1200 is reasonable for a 17" display with fixed-size UI elements.. it's insane.
The CCFL backlit display that you know will be at 50% brightness in six months
Quote:
Originally Posted by Messiah
Shit the bed - is that right?
I apologize; I haven't been keeping up with modern specifications. That might have been true many years ago.
An article I found from late 2003 says Toshiba was making panels with mean half-brightness times of 50,000 hours, which is well beyond the lifetime of the panel itself.
As with everything, "It depends." I'm sure cheap panels have low half-brightness lifetimes. I'm also sure that well-made LED panels have longer brightness lifetimes than equivalently well-made CCFL panels.
Yeah, Apple could even respond with a 16:9 (or 16:10) aspect ratio display.
There's some question on whether the Samsung will indeed by 16:9 or 16:10. Time will tell.
My point was that the industry will push Apple to come out with new monitors sooner rather than later. Apple likes to be on the medium-high end with their monitors for graphics folks... they certainly don't want to miss out when a bunch of people rush to buy LED backlit monitors.
My bet is that anything new or updated that has a display and is announced next month will have LED backlighting.
I second that. Jobs could have let the cat out of the bag long ago, but this announcement seems perfectly timed to spur industry chatter and allow people to be happy when they get what they were expecting, without having to wait too long to get it.
so in effect you are saying that ppl should stay away from any update to the MBP that comes out before october?
i would have thought that whatever MBP they release before Leopard (assuming it comes) would be able to take advantage of all the features Leopard offers - ie it would effectively be a 'leopard' MBP just running Tiger until the new OS comes out... it doesn't make sense. esp. considering Leopard was originally due around the same time as a possible MBP update.
There's no chance the MBP won't fully capitalize on Leopard features. There's been too much talk, it's been too long since the last update, and with the delay of Leopard, it's too risky to try and reach the in-betweens who don't know better. One of the selling points likely will be "the MBP is fully Leopard-ready, so get your wallets primed to buy once it's released in October."
Comments
This could lead to actual AppleTV televisions!
Please.. don't encourage me.
I want my LED-backlit subnotebook! (SubMacbook?)
I'd say MacBook mini
Shit the bed - is that right?
Of course not. The brightness diminishes with time, yes, but not nearly as much as this statement assures.
Hooray! Hoping this will come to the iMacs as well.
If you mean this year, then doubtful. Next year probably.
I hope Apple offers better dimming with their LED backlights than they do with their current desktop displays. The current crop is too bright for me at the dimmest level. Are the people that are asking for brighter displays using them outdoors? Do they have cataracts? Any brighter and it's getting uncomfortably close to a tanning booth.
Mac solarium - from the Latin 'perfect sunlight'.
15.4" LED LCD
2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
1440 x 900 pixels
xGB Turbo Memory (NAND, Robson)
2GB memory
120GB hard drive
8x double-layer SuperDrive
nVidia GeForce Go 7700
graphics with 256MB SDRAM
$2,599
Note: Samsung demonstrated a 15.4" white LED LCD early this year with these specs:
1440 x 900 pixels
330cd/M2
5.8mm thin
3.1W
Maybe. But the backlight shouldn't have too much to do with color range in an LCD monitor. You might be thinking about actual LED displays, which do not have LCDs at all.
Nope, I think he is right, seems that a lot of the panels coming out (LCD panels) have lousy BTSC color coverage. Maybe its because they are cheap ones or something.
On the flip side, Apple does not publish their NTSC color coverage so they may not be that much better for all we know.
Well, check out what we already know:
1. Apple plans to introduce the first LED flat-panels in 2007, but is dependent on the panel manufacturers.
2. 10.5 is coming in October and will feature resolution-independence.
3. from 2 we can hypothesize that Apple is going to release a high-resolution display AFTER 10.5. Using a high-resolution display with Tiger will lead to small unreadable letters.
4. Since it doesn't make sense to change the display line-up twice in a short time, we're talking about a single revision.
5. That revision will have to happen AFTER 10.5, meaning after October.
6. Conclusion: no new displays (and only minor revisions for the iMac) until after 10.5.
I have a feeling that you are right on the money, like you I expect that Apple will be raising the resolution on ALL their displays and use resolution-independence to make better use of those extra pixels to make the images and text clearer.
For people like me a 30 inch monitor without resolution-independence is not usable as the text is too small at native resolution. The 24" iMac is about perfect for me to read the menus and stuff while wearing glasses.
Resolution-independence can't get here soon enough.
I hope Apple offers better dimming with their LED backlights than they do with their current desktop displays. The current crop is too bright for me at the dimmest level. Are the people that are asking for brighter displays using them outdoors? Do they have cataracts? Any brighter and it's getting uncomfortably close to a tanning booth.
LOL, I love my tan.
For people like me a 30 inch monitor without resolution-independence is not usable as the text is too small at native resolution. The 24" iMac is about perfect for me to read the menus and stuff while wearing glasses.
The 30" and 24" have roughly the same pitch. The screen size shouldn't make any difference unless you use the screen at a different distance as a result.
Well, check out what we already know:
1. Apple plans to introduce the first LED flat-panels in 2007, but is dependent on the panel manufacturers.
2. 10.5 is coming in October and will feature resolution-independence.
3. from 2 we can hypothesize that Apple is going to release a high-resolution display AFTER 10.5. Using a high-resolution display with Tiger will lead to small unreadable letters.
4. Since it doesn't make sense to change the display line-up twice in a short time, we're talking about a single revision.
5. That revision will have to happen AFTER 10.5, meaning after October.
6. Conclusion: no new displays (and only minor revisions for the iMac) until after 10.5.
so in effect you are saying that ppl should stay away from any update to the MBP that comes out before october?
i would have thought that whatever MBP they release before Leopard (assuming it comes) would be able to take advantage of all the features Leopard offers - ie it would effectively be a 'leopard' MBP just running Tiger until the new OS comes out... it doesn't make sense. esp. considering Leopard was originally due around the same time as a possible MBP update.
so in effect you are saying that ppl should stay away from any update to the MBP that comes out before october?
That post was only about the displays. The display lineup isn't updated more than once a year that I remember. I think there are usually about two updates to the pro notebooks every year. I think update #1 will be to the Santa Rosa platform, update #2 might be LED backlights as well as a small speed increase. As is much of this thread, this is just speculation, but I think is reasonable speculation.
so in effect you are saying that ppl should stay away from any update to the MBP that comes out before october?
i would have thought that whatever MBP they release before Leopard (assuming it comes) would be able to take advantage of all the features Leopard offers - ie it would effectively be a 'leopard' MBP just running Tiger until the new OS comes out... it doesn't make sense. esp. considering Leopard was originally due around the same time as a possible MBP update.
I gather his post was referring to standalone Cinema Displays, which are updated very rarely. If they are to be updated soon (and they are LONG overdue -- the line, except for minor changes, has been pretty much static since summer '04), presumably they will come after Leopard if the updates include higher resolutions. Tiger isn't resolution-independent, meaning text and UI elements would appear inordinately tiny on high-res ACD's. October or beyond is the only reasonable timeframe here.
As for the MacBook Pro's, I can't see why they couldn't update the chipset and maybe some cosmetic details in May-June, but put off higher resolution displays until later -- perhaps early next year. The laptops' displays are even denser with pixels than the ACDs, so the negative effects of a lack of resolution independence would be even more apparent on them. I seriously cannot fathom that people think 1920x1200 is reasonable for a 17" display with fixed-size UI elements.. it's insane.
I read somewhere that the first flat panels with led backlighting had poor color range, only 47% of NTSC.
It depends on the panel. That Samsung XL30 is supposed to have more than the NTSC gamut--123%! That's better than most CCFL panels.
The CCFL backlit display that you know will be at 50% brightness in six months
Shit the bed - is that right?
I apologize; I haven't been keeping up with modern specifications. That might have been true many years ago.
An article I found from late 2003 says Toshiba was making panels with mean half-brightness times of 50,000 hours, which is well beyond the lifetime of the panel itself.
As with everything, "It depends." I'm sure cheap panels have low half-brightness lifetimes. I'm also sure that well-made LED panels have longer brightness lifetimes than equivalently well-made CCFL panels.
Yeah, Apple could even respond with a 16:9 (or 16:10) aspect ratio display.
There's some question on whether the Samsung will indeed by 16:9 or 16:10. Time will tell.
My point was that the industry will push Apple to come out with new monitors sooner rather than later. Apple likes to be on the medium-high end with their monitors for graphics folks... they certainly don't want to miss out when a bunch of people rush to buy LED backlit monitors.
My bet is that anything new or updated that has a display and is announced next month will have LED backlighting.
I second that. Jobs could have let the cat out of the bag long ago, but this announcement seems perfectly timed to spur industry chatter and allow people to be happy when they get what they were expecting, without having to wait too long to get it.
so in effect you are saying that ppl should stay away from any update to the MBP that comes out before october?
i would have thought that whatever MBP they release before Leopard (assuming it comes) would be able to take advantage of all the features Leopard offers - ie it would effectively be a 'leopard' MBP just running Tiger until the new OS comes out... it doesn't make sense. esp. considering Leopard was originally due around the same time as a possible MBP update.
There's no chance the MBP won't fully capitalize on Leopard features. There's been too much talk, it's been too long since the last update, and with the delay of Leopard, it's too risky to try and reach the in-betweens who don't know better. One of the selling points likely will be "the MBP is fully Leopard-ready, so get your wallets primed to buy once it's released in October."
Either that, or no MBP update until October...